College game is still rigged

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This misery is self-imposed. If you have a high stats kid who seeks rigor (is not pushed by you) and you’re confident they won’t be stressed by playing the game, throw a hat in the ring. But even these kids should be mentally prepared for the fact admission is unlikely. They need to hear the message loud and clear that they are not defined by the name of the school they attend. Send the message early and often that your kids are loved not just for their achievements but because they are unique individuals who are kind, creative, hardworking, etc. Let them know you love them whether they end up at Harvard or community college. I have seen so many kids who struggle with the rejection. It feels like they’ve been set up for failure by parents and a community with unrealistic expectations, that sends the toxic message that the college they attend equates to their worth.

The main value of the Selingo book is in amplifying this message, and making it easier for parents to accept it and to convey it to their kids. Because it’s hard not to get seduced by all the marketing pressures.

I have a high stats kid who wants a big school with a big-time football or basketball culture. But now in senior year, every couple of days they start to wonder if they have some kind of moral obligation to apply to HYPSM, just because their SAT is 1550+ and their GPA is top 5% of their high school. The Selingo book has been a really helpful touchstone helping us stay focused on what DC actually wants out of their college experience (which is not the intensity of a hyper-selective school).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Applying to colleges should not be as stressful as it has become. Colleges shouldn’t be as expensive as they are now. High school students shouldn’t be expected to win national awards, present themselves as prodigies, professional athletes etc. They are just teens beginning their lives. They might not know what they want to do in college and yet they already expected to have achieved so much success in various fields. Its insane! They should instead be allowed to make mistakes and learn from them, which in the current system is not allowed. Imagine the stress when KIDS are not allowed to make mistakes. Cause one mistake (one B or C) can mean no chance at the elite schools.
Then we wonder why our kids are anxious and stressed.

This. Honestly, the influx of highly educated Asians has poisoned the system. The cheating and willingness to do anything to appease the tiger parents has destroyed academic integrity and learning environment. These aren’t inherently bad kids but they are molded into obedient jerks who will lie, claw and cheat their way through the system.

Wow. The biggest cheats at my kid’s schools are white. Both male and female. Kids who have no conscience and don’t think twice of copying someone’s answers, using a stolen test, or coordinating cheating schemes among friends. Just as counter point!

The cheating is rampant at my kids’ Catholic schools. I was surprised by this; it was not the case at my Catholic school in the 90s. No idea what changed but even the top of the class cheats. It’s a bummer.

Asians take it to an entirely new level. Chinese parents are worse than the kids. In China, cheating is just part of the culture and there are industries on the mainland and US to professionally support the cheating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Applying to colleges should not be as stressful as it has become. Colleges shouldn’t be as expensive as they are now. High school students shouldn’t be expected to win national awards, present themselves as prodigies, professional athletes etc. They are just teens beginning their lives. They might not know what they want to do in college and yet they already expected to have achieved so much success in various fields. Its insane! They should instead be allowed to make mistakes and learn from them, which in the current system is not allowed. Imagine the stress when KIDS are not allowed to make mistakes. Cause one mistake (one B or C) can mean no chance at the elite schools.
Then we wonder why our kids are anxious and stressed.

This. Honestly, the influx of highly educated Asians has poisoned the system. The cheating and willingness to do anything to appease the tiger parents has destroyed academic integrity and learning environment. These aren’t inherently bad kids but they are molded into obedient jerks who will lie, claw and cheat their way through the system.

Wow. The biggest cheats at my kid’s schools are white. Both male and female. Kids who have no conscience and don’t think twice of copying someone’s answers, using a stolen test, or coordinating cheating schemes among friends. Just as counter point!

The cheating is rampant at my kids’ Catholic schools. I was surprised by this; it was not the case at my Catholic school in the 90s. No idea what changed but even the top of the class cheats. It’s a bummer.

Not at ours. The punishments are swift and harsh. Fs, getting kicked out of NJHS, etc

[Anonymous]

A few thoughts:

The college board created part of the problem by changing the scoring on the SAT. Too many kids with super high scores. This isn't because they are smarter. But this means there is more pressure to get the high score, then on top of that more pressure to do other things to differentiate since so many kids have high scores.

My spouse and I both went to elite schools and had great experiences. My child is very smart and puts a lot of pressure on himself to do well and wants to be like us. We have tried very hard to reduce his stress and let him know that going somewhere "lower" than our alma maters is OK.

Having spent part of his academic career at mixed-level public schools where there were a bunch of kids who didn't care, he is very concerned with going to a school where he is primarily surrounded by smart, high motivated kids (but not a lot of stressballs either - he turned down top magnet high schools to have a more relaxed HS experience). We know there are plenty of these at lower tier schools but the kids are just harder to find. Your peer group, both during and after college, is one of the main reasons for going to a top school.

My younger child is likely not going to be as good of a student so this choice will be made for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Selingo lost a lot of credibility when he published his list of Dream Schools.

+1

Dumb book.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Applying to colleges should not be as stressful as it has become. Colleges shouldn’t be as expensive as they are now. High school students shouldn’t be expected to win national awards, present themselves as prodigies, professional athletes etc. They are just teens beginning their lives. They might not know what they want to do in college and yet they already expected to have achieved so much success in various fields. Its insane! They should instead be allowed to make mistakes and learn from them, which in the current system is not allowed. Imagine the stress when KIDS are not allowed to make mistakes. Cause one mistake (one B or C) can mean no chance at the elite schools.
Then we wonder why our kids are anxious and stressed.

This problem is completely manufactured. No kid needs to go to an elite school and all of this stress is caused by fear of not being UMC or rich, because things are getting worse and harder for those who don’t get good jobs. Plenty of good schools are happy to take normal kids with normal stats who don’t have a mountain of ECs. There is no need for all of the stress and pressure.

Instead of focusing on getting more kids into the elite schools, how about making society better so things don’t suck so much for everyone else? The problem is not that these elite institutions don’t let enough kids in, it’s that the system is perpetuated in the first place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Article in Ny times.. by Jeff Selingo


“That mind-set makes acceptance to a highly selective college feel like a game. The rules are set by colleges, then carried out by admissions offices, and are stacked against the vast majority of teenagers. Fewer than a tenth of applicants win that prize of getting into one of the nation’s most selective colleges. If that weren’t enough, every year elite colleges move the goal line with new rules for getting across it.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/22/opinion/college-admissions-seniors-stats.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare


I doubt most people will learn anything from his book or article. We keep playing this game and colleges keep winning..

Selingo says in this article you can’t do anything about the rules set by colleges. It’s called legislation. Abolish ED.

Nonsense, they are private institutions. People can choose to apply or not to apply but private schools have every right to create an admissions process that works for their interests.

They are private and can do whatever they want, except they also want Govt funding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Applying to colleges should not be as stressful as it has become. Colleges shouldn’t be as expensive as they are now. High school students shouldn’t be expected to win national awards, present themselves as prodigies, professional athletes etc. They are just teens beginning their lives. They might not know what they want to do in college and yet they already expected to have achieved so much success in various fields. Its insane! They should instead be allowed to make mistakes and learn from them, which in the current system is not allowed. Imagine the stress when KIDS are not allowed to make mistakes. Cause one mistake (one B or C) can mean no chance at the elite schools.
Then we wonder why our kids are anxious and stressed.

+ 1000. Get rid of the whole industry that enables this with coaches, consultants, tutors.

oh goody. Tell exactly how you plan to wipe out an entire private industry

[Anonymous]

It is ironic that Republicans claim to be the party of small government yet are really busy butting in and telling schools what to do.

Research grants should not be contingent on factors unrelated to research.

Anyone who is OK with what Trump is doing to these schools is an idiot. And I say this as a Jew who thinks that "preventing anti-Semitism" is very low on his list of priorities. Power trips to go after the elite and stick it to the libs are his main goal. He has been rejected by elites his whole life so this is his way to get back at them. Last time I looked avenging grievances is not in the President's job description he has literally said he hates half of America. Grow up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Applying to colleges should not be as stressful as it has become. Colleges shouldn’t be as expensive as they are now. High school students shouldn’t be expected to win national awards, present themselves as prodigies, professional athletes etc. They are just teens beginning their lives. They might not know what they want to do in college and yet they already expected to have achieved so much success in various fields. Its insane! They should instead be allowed to make mistakes and learn from them, which in the current system is not allowed. Imagine the stress when KIDS are not allowed to make mistakes. Cause one mistake (one B or C) can mean no chance at the elite schools.
Then we wonder why our kids are anxious and stressed.

This. Honestly, the influx of highly educated Asians has poisoned the system. The cheating and willingness to do anything to appease the tiger parents has destroyed academic integrity and learning environment. These aren’t inherently bad kids but they are molded into obedient jerks who will lie, claw and cheat their way through the system.

Wow. The biggest cheats at my kid’s schools are white. Both male and female. Kids who have no conscience and don’t think twice of copying someone’s answers, using a stolen test, or coordinating cheating schemes among friends. Just as counter point!

The cheating is rampant at my kids’ Catholic schools. I was surprised by this; it was not the case at my Catholic school in the 90s. No idea what changed but even the top of the class cheats. It’s a bummer.

Asians take it to an entirely new level. Chinese parents are worse than the kids. In China, cheating is just part of the culture and there are industries on the mainland and US to professionally support the cheating.

Wow. Your previous post got removed and now this? Racist much?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Applying to colleges should not be as stressful as it has become. Colleges shouldn’t be as expensive as they are now. High school students shouldn’t be expected to win national awards, present themselves as prodigies, professional athletes etc. They are just teens beginning their lives. They might not know what they want to do in college and yet they already expected to have achieved so much success in various fields. Its insane! They should instead be allowed to make mistakes and learn from them, which in the current system is not allowed. Imagine the stress when KIDS are not allowed to make mistakes. Cause one mistake (one B or C) can mean no chance at the elite schools.
Then we wonder why our kids are anxious and stressed.

This problem is completely manufactured. No kid needs to go to an elite school and all of this stress is caused by fear of not being UMC or rich, because things are getting worse and harder for those who don’t get good jobs. Plenty of good schools are happy to take normal kids with normal stats who don’t have a mountain of ECs. There is no need for all of the stress and pressure.

Instead of focusing on getting more kids into the elite schools, how about making society better so things don’t suck so much for everyone else? The problem is not that these elite institutions don’t let enough kids in, it’s that the system is perpetuated in the first place.

Ah yes, let’s simply fix society, government, and the economy. Should be a snap!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Applying to colleges should not be as stressful as it has become. Colleges shouldn’t be as expensive as they are now. High school students shouldn’t be expected to win national awards, present themselves as prodigies, professional athletes etc. They are just teens beginning their lives. They might not know what they want to do in college and yet they already expected to have achieved so much success in various fields. Its insane! They should instead be allowed to make mistakes and learn from them, which in the current system is not allowed. Imagine the stress when KIDS are not allowed to make mistakes. Cause one mistake (one B or C) can mean no chance at the elite schools.
Then we wonder why our kids are anxious and stressed.

This. Honestly, the influx of highly educated Asians has poisoned the system. The cheating and willingness to do anything to appease the tiger parents has destroyed academic integrity and learning environment. These aren’t inherently bad kids but they are molded into obedient jerks who will lie, claw and cheat their way through the system.

Wow. The biggest cheats at my kid’s schools are white. Both male and female. Kids who have no conscience and don’t think twice of copying someone’s answers, using a stolen test, or coordinating cheating schemes among friends. Just as counter point!

Contrary to yellow peril hysteria, cheating is ubiquitous. If anything, the Asian kids are less likely to cheat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Applying to colleges should not be as stressful as it has become. Colleges shouldn’t be as expensive as they are now. High school students shouldn’t be expected to win national awards, present themselves as prodigies, professional athletes etc. They are just teens beginning their lives. They might not know what they want to do in college and yet they already expected to have achieved so much success in various fields. Its insane! They should instead be allowed to make mistakes and learn from them, which in the current system is not allowed. Imagine the stress when KIDS are not allowed to make mistakes. Cause one mistake (one B or C) can mean no chance at the elite schools.
Then we wonder why our kids are anxious and stressed.

This. Honestly, the influx of highly educated Asians has poisoned the system. The cheating and willingness to do anything to appease the tiger parents has destroyed academic integrity and learning environment. These aren’t inherently bad kids but they are molded into obedient jerks who will lie, claw and cheat their way through the system.

Wow. The biggest cheats at my kid’s schools are white. Both male and female. Kids who have no conscience and don’t think twice of copying someone’s answers, using a stolen test, or coordinating cheating schemes among friends. Just as counter point!

The cheating is rampant at my kids’ Catholic schools. I was surprised by this; it was not the case at my Catholic school in the 90s. No idea what changed but even the top of the class cheats. It’s a bummer.

Asians take it to an entirely new level. Chinese parents are worse than the kids. In China, cheating is just part of the culture and there are industries on the mainland and US to professionally support the cheating.

Is this an East Coast thing? Out here in CA, I never run into this kind of nonsense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This misery is self-imposed. If you have a high stats kid who seeks rigor (is not pushed by you) and you’re confident they won’t be stressed by playing the game, throw a hat in the ring. But even these kids should be mentally prepared for the fact admission is unlikely. They need to hear the message loud and clear that they are not defined by the name of the school they attend. Send the message early and often that your kids are loved not just for their achievements but because they are unique individuals who are kind, creative, hardworking, etc. Let them know you love them whether they end up at Harvard or community college. I have seen so many kids who struggle with the rejection. It feels like they’ve been set up for failure by parents and a community with unrealistic expectations, that sends the toxic message that the college they attend equates to their worth.

The main value of the Selingo book is in amplifying this message, and making it easier for parents to accept it and to convey it to their kids. Because it’s hard not to get seduced by all the marketing pressures.

I have a high stats kid who wants a big school with a big-time football or basketball culture. But now in senior year, every couple of days they start to wonder if they have some kind of moral obligation to apply to HYPSM, just because their SAT is 1550+ and their GPA is top 5% of their high school. The Selingo book has been a really helpful touchstone helping us stay focused on what DC actually wants out of their college experience (which is not the intensity of a hyper-selective school).

That's good to hear. Simply accepting institutional priorities means that any unhooked high stats kid has vanishingly low odds of admission to a T-5 school, and not much better for T-10. Prestige chasing isn't great for anyone, especially given how many excellent college educations there are to be had in this country. The main lesson is focus on fit, yes.

[Anonymous]

My high stats kid didn't cheat and I don't think his peers did either. Private school that went out of its way to make that impossible, i.e. essays written in class by hand (could bring in note cards with quotes and citations which had to be handed in ahead of time), proctored exams. Who would want/expect/encourage cheating in their child?