College game is still rigged

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Applying to colleges should not be as stressful as it has become. Colleges shouldn’t be as expensive as they are now. High school students shouldn’t be expected to win national awards, present themselves as prodigies, professional athletes etc. They are just teens beginning their lives. They might not know what they want to do in college and yet they already expected to have achieved so much success in various fields. Its insane! They should instead be allowed to make mistakes and learn from them, which in the current system is not allowed. Imagine the stress when KIDS are not allowed to make mistakes. Cause one mistake (one B or C) can mean no chance at the elite schools.
Then we wonder why our kids are anxious and stressed.

This problem is completely manufactured. No kid needs to go to an elite school and all of this stress is caused by fear of not being UMC or rich, because things are getting worse and harder for those who don’t get good jobs. Plenty of good schools are happy to take normal kids with normal stats who don’t have a mountain of ECs. There is no need for all of the stress and pressure.

Instead of focusing on getting more kids into the elite schools, how about making society better so things don’t suck so much for everyone else? The problem is not that these elite institutions don’t let enough kids in, it’s that the system is perpetuated in the first place.

Back in the day, it wasn't as difficult to get accepted by the state flagship. These schools served as the backstop for students rejected by elite schools, or just as the respected school of choice. The flagships have the express purpose of educating the successful HS students of the state, but this mission has been undermined, if not eliminated, by the increased number of applicants and increased selectivity. Now, more in state students are being rejected by them, which creates uncertainly, which leads to anxiety. Note how many flagships admit 40%. 50% or more OOS. Yes, there are schools for these rejected students, but this newer model requires families to familiarize themselves with more schools and reduce expectations for reasons out of their control. Increasing state funding for the flagship, so as to require the school to admit a higher percentage of in state kids would be a minor move in the right direction, after all, that is supposedly their purpose.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Focus on finding the actual best place for your kid, without concern for rankings. Have at least 3 Reaches/targets/safeties and make them all be places your kid wants to attend. You will be fine.

This. My HS senior is applying to 15 schools and the one where she (and I) really sees herself thrive and have a great experience is at one of her safeties.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Applying to colleges should not be as stressful as it has become. Colleges shouldn’t be as expensive as they are now. High school students shouldn’t be expected to win national awards, present themselves as prodigies, professional athletes etc. They are just teens beginning their lives. They might not know what they want to do in college and yet they already expected to have achieved so much success in various fields. Its insane! They should instead be allowed to make mistakes and learn from them, which in the current system is not allowed. Imagine the stress when KIDS are not allowed to make mistakes. Cause one mistake (one B or C) can mean no chance at the elite schools.
Then we wonder why our kids are anxious and stressed.

This. Honestly, the influx of highly educated Asians has poisoned the system. The cheating and willingness to do anything to appease the tiger parents has destroyed academic integrity and learning environment. These aren’t inherently bad kids but they are molded into obedient jerks who will lie, claw and cheat their way through the system.

Wow. The biggest cheats at my kid’s schools are white. Both male and female. Kids who have no conscience and don’t think twice of copying someone’s answers, using a stolen test, or coordinating cheating schemes among friends. Just as counter point!

The cheating is rampant at my kids’ Catholic schools. I was surprised by this; it was not the case at my Catholic school in the 90s. No idea what changed but even the top of the class cheats. It’s a bummer.

Asians take it to an entirely new level. Chinese parents are worse than the kids. In China, cheating is just part of the culture and there are industries on the mainland and US to professionally support the cheating.

Wow. Your previous post got removed and now this? Racist much?

NP. There is plenty of data to back this up. Of course with AI, cheating is now everywhere.

https://thepienews.com/academic-dishonesty-common-reason-dismissal-chinese-intl-students/
https://www.emerald.com/heed/article/17/1/52/76188/An-empirical-survey-on-prevalence-and-demographic

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Applying to colleges should not be as stressful as it has become. Colleges shouldn’t be as expensive as they are now. High school students shouldn’t be expected to win national awards, present themselves as prodigies, professional athletes etc. They are just teens beginning their lives. They might not know what they want to do in college and yet they already expected to have achieved so much success in various fields. Its insane! They should instead be allowed to make mistakes and learn from them, which in the current system is not allowed. Imagine the stress when KIDS are not allowed to make mistakes. Cause one mistake (one B or C) can mean no chance at the elite schools.
Then we wonder why our kids are anxious and stressed.

This problem is completely manufactured. No kid needs to go to an elite school and all of this stress is caused by fear of not being UMC or rich, because things are getting worse and harder for those who don’t get good jobs. Plenty of good schools are happy to take normal kids with normal stats who don’t have a mountain of ECs. There is no need for all of the stress and pressure.

Instead of focusing on getting more kids into the elite schools, how about making society better so things don’t suck so much for everyone else? The problem is not that these elite institutions don’t let enough kids in, it’s that the system is perpetuated in the first place.

Back in the day, it wasn't as difficult to get accepted by the state flagship. These schools served as the backstop for students rejected by elite schools, or just as the respected school of choice. The flagships have the express purpose of educating the successful HS students of the state, but this mission has been undermined, if not eliminated, by the increased number of applicants and increased selectivity. Now, more in state students are being rejected by them, which creates uncertainly, which leads to anxiety. Note how many flagships admit 40%. 50% or more OOS. Yes, there are schools for these rejected students, but this newer model requires families to familiarize themselves with more schools and reduce expectations for reasons out of their control. Increasing state funding for the flagship, so as to require the school to admit a higher percentage of in state kids would be a minor move in the right direction, after all, that is supposedly their purpose.

+1 at least for the publics the scarcity problem can be addressed by growing (University of California system has really demonstrated it is possible), agree states should cap OOS, could tie it to acceptance rate, i.e. if in state acceptance rate drops to below x % lower the number of OOS admits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Applying to colleges should not be as stressful as it has become. Colleges shouldn’t be as expensive as they are now. High school students shouldn’t be expected to win national awards, present themselves as prodigies, professional athletes etc. They are just teens beginning their lives. They might not know what they want to do in college and yet they already expected to have achieved so much success in various fields. Its insane! They should instead be allowed to make mistakes and learn from them, which in the current system is not allowed. Imagine the stress when KIDS are not allowed to make mistakes. Cause one mistake (one B or C) can mean no chance at the elite schools.
Then we wonder why our kids are anxious and stressed.

This. Honestly, the influx of highly educated Asians has poisoned the system. The cheating and willingness to do anything to appease the tiger parents has destroyed academic integrity and learning environment. These aren’t inherently bad kids but they are molded into obedient jerks who will lie, claw and cheat their way through the system.

Wow. The biggest cheats at my kid’s schools are white. Both male and female. Kids who have no conscience and don’t think twice of copying someone’s answers, using a stolen test, or coordinating cheating schemes among friends. Just as counter point!

The cheating is rampant at my kids’ Catholic schools. I was surprised by this; it was not the case at my Catholic school in the 90s. No idea what changed but even the top of the class cheats. It’s a bummer.

Asians take it to an entirely new level. Chinese parents are worse than the kids. In China, cheating is just part of the culture and there are industries on the mainland and US to professionally support the cheating.

Wow. Your previous post got removed and now this? Racist much?

NP. There is plenty of data to back this up. Of course with AI, cheating is now everywhere.

https://thepienews.com/academic-dishonesty-common-reason-dismissal-chinese-intl-students/
https://www.emerald.com/heed/article/17/1/52/76188/An-empirical-survey-on-prevalence-and-demographic

60% and up.
"The extent of AD among Chinese college and university students majoring in business, engineering, information technology (IT) and education are worth investigating, which has yet to be fully understood or surveyed in the Chinese context. The specific research results might be different from those found in Western countries. The key contributing factors are rooted in different exam-oriented education contexts, Confucian cultural backgrounds and attitudes towards education in China."


Although there may be some differences, true that cheating is now highly prevalent, ubiquitous even. 50% and up AD rate in America as well.
https://www.meazurelearning.com/resources/by-the-numbers-academic-integrity-in-higher-education

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Applying to colleges should not be as stressful as it has become. Colleges shouldn’t be as expensive as they are now. High school students shouldn’t be expected to win national awards, present themselves as prodigies, professional athletes etc. They are just teens beginning their lives. They might not know what they want to do in college and yet they already expected to have achieved so much success in various fields. Its insane! They should instead be allowed to make mistakes and learn from them, which in the current system is not allowed. Imagine the stress when KIDS are not allowed to make mistakes. Cause one mistake (one B or C) can mean no chance at the elite schools.
Then we wonder why our kids are anxious and stressed.

This problem is completely manufactured. No kid needs to go to an elite school and all of this stress is caused by fear of not being UMC or rich, because things are getting worse and harder for those who don’t get good jobs. Plenty of good schools are happy to take normal kids with normal stats who don’t have a mountain of ECs. There is no need for all of the stress and pressure.

Instead of focusing on getting more kids into the elite schools, how about making society better so things don’t suck so much for everyone else? The problem is not that these elite institutions don’t let enough kids in, it’s that the system is perpetuated in the first place.

Back in the day, it wasn't as difficult to get accepted by the state flagship. These schools served as the backstop for students rejected by elite schools, or just as the respected school of choice. The flagships have the express purpose of educating the successful HS students of the state, but this mission has been undermined, if not eliminated, by the increased number of applicants and increased selectivity. Now, more in state students are being rejected by them, which creates uncertainly, which leads to anxiety. Note how many flagships admit 40%. 50% or more OOS. Yes, there are schools for these rejected students, but this newer model requires families to familiarize themselves with more schools and reduce expectations for reasons out of their control. Increasing state funding for the flagship, so as to require the school to admit a higher percentage of in state kids would be a minor move in the right direction, after all, that is supposedly their purpose.

+1 at least for the publics the scarcity problem can be addressed by growing (University of California system has really demonstrated it is possible), agree states should cap OOS, could tie it to acceptance rate, i.e. if in state acceptance rate drops to below x % lower the number of OOS admits.

Agree this should happen, but then the state budget would need a significant boost to offset the loss of the higher OOS tuitions.

[Anonymous]

It would be interesting to know what kinds of schools and colleges these admissions experts who push "fit" instead of "prestige" send their own kids to. It would also be good to know how these experts make a living. It wouldn't be by advising low ranked schools on how to market themselves, would it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Applying to colleges should not be as stressful as it has become. Colleges shouldn’t be as expensive as they are now. High school students shouldn’t be expected to win national awards, present themselves as prodigies, professional athletes etc. They are just teens beginning their lives. They might not know what they want to do in college and yet they already expected to have achieved so much success in various fields. Its insane! They should instead be allowed to make mistakes and learn from them, which in the current system is not allowed. Imagine the stress when KIDS are not allowed to make mistakes. Cause one mistake (one B or C) can mean no chance at the elite schools.
Then we wonder why our kids are anxious and stressed.

This. Honestly, the influx of highly educated Asians has poisoned the system. The cheating and willingness to do anything to appease the tiger parents has destroyed academic integrity and learning environment. These aren’t inherently bad kids but they are molded into obedient jerks who will lie, claw and cheat their way through the system.

Wow. The biggest cheats at my kid’s schools are white. Both male and female. Kids who have no conscience and don’t think twice of copying someone’s answers, using a stolen test, or coordinating cheating schemes among friends. Just as counter point!

Contrary to yellow peril hysteria, cheating is ubiquitous. If anything, the Asian kids are less likely to cheat.

Based on what research? Love when people make up facts! 🙄

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It would be interesting to know what kinds of schools and colleges these admissions experts who push "fit" instead of "prestige" send their own kids to. It would also be good to know how these experts make a living. It wouldn't be by advising low ranked schools on how to market themselves, would it?

It would indeed. I liked "who gets in and why," but from the summaries and his accompanying opinion pieces seems to me "Dream school" is a contradiction. Seems like he is saying that the T50 and the large publics will continue to thrive and the rest are in financial jeopardy, his list is drawn from the schools he is saying are most at risk of cuts/program reductions etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It would be interesting to know what kinds of schools and colleges these admissions experts who push "fit" instead of "prestige" send their own kids to. It would also be good to know how these experts make a living. It wouldn't be by advising low ranked schools on how to market themselves, would it?

It would indeed. I liked "who gets in and why," but from the summaries and his accompanying opinion pieces seems to me "Dream school" is a contradiction. Seems like he is saying that the T50 and the large publics will continue to thrive and the rest are in financial jeopardy, his list is drawn from the schools he is saying are most at risk of cuts/program reductions etc.

???

His list includes a lot of large publics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Article in Ny times.. by Jeff Selingo


“That mind-set makes acceptance to a highly selective college feel like a game. The rules are set by colleges, then carried out by admissions offices, and are stacked against the vast majority of teenagers. Fewer than a tenth of applicants win that prize of getting into one of the nation’s most selective colleges. If that weren’t enough, every year elite colleges move the goal line with new rules for getting across it.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/22/opinion/college-admissions-seniors-stats.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare


I doubt most people will learn anything from his book or article. We keep playing this game and colleges keep winning..

Selingo says in this article you can’t do anything about the rules set by colleges. It’s called legislation. Abolish ED.

For the last time, anyone can do ED. You must simply run the NPC and be willing to accept the results.
However, if you are full pay (90K) and cannot afford it, nothing changes with ED vs RD at any of these schools. They still will not give you merit and make it "affordable".

You seem to not get that ED was created to benefit colleges — and not the student consumer.

So, I get that. But it also benefits students who know where they want to attend/have a top choice and are willing to commit. You can be done by Dec 15 and relax and enjoy your senior year.

And yes, most places with ED are private universities, they can do whatever they want to find the right class each year. They are businesses that want to fill exactly X students for the fall. This helps them hit that number more closely.

And yes you can do ED if you want. Nobody is forcing you to. But if you cannot afford it or need to "compare offers" then it's not for you. You can still apply RD/EA to as many places as you want. It's a choice you get to make

Publics have ED too. UVA, UNC, W&M just off the top of my head.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Article in Ny times.. by Jeff Selingo


“That mind-set makes acceptance to a highly selective college feel like a game. The rules are set by colleges, then carried out by admissions offices, and are stacked against the vast majority of teenagers. Fewer than a tenth of applicants win that prize of getting into one of the nation’s most selective colleges. If that weren’t enough, every year elite colleges move the goal line with new rules for getting across it.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/22/opinion/college-admissions-seniors-stats.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare


I doubt most people will learn anything from his book or article. We keep playing this game and colleges keep winning..

Selingo says in this article you can’t do anything about the rules set by colleges. It’s called legislation. Abolish ED.

For the last time, anyone can do ED. You must simply run the NPC and be willing to accept the results.
However, if you are full pay (90K) and cannot afford it, nothing changes with ED vs RD at any of these schools. They still will not give you merit and make it "affordable".

You seem to not get that ED was created to benefit colleges — and not the student consumer.

So, I get that. But it also benefits students who know where they want to attend/have a top choice and are willing to commit. You can be done by Dec 15 and relax and enjoy your senior year.

And yes, most places with ED are private universities, they can do whatever they want to find the right class each year. They are businesses that want to fill exactly X students for the fall. This helps them hit that number more closely.

And yes you can do ED if you want. Nobody is forcing you to. But if you cannot afford it or need to "compare offers" then it's not for you. You can still apply RD/EA to as many places as you want. It's a choice you get to make

Publics have ED too. UVA, UNC, W&M just off the top of my head.

UNC does not have ED

[Anonymous]

Admissions should be based on merit and not on subjective criteria like EC’s which can be easily embellished and manipulated. It will stop all this madness to a great extent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Admissions should be based on merit and not on subjective criteria like EC’s which can be easily embellished and manipulated. It will stop all this madness to a great extent.

Many schools do admit on merit. The madness exists because you are obsessed with the ones that don’t, because they don’t.

You say you want transparency and predictability, but then you devalue schools with high admissions rates. But every school with transparent and predictable admissions has a high admissions rate, because people who can see that they don’t meet the standard don’t bother to apply.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of the easiest ways to fix college admissions is to limit the number of times one can take the SAT/ACT. That would vastly reduce the number of 1500+ applicant pool. But college board makes money off of SAT so that is not going to happen. Its all about the money people..

The entire testing industry from students taking exams for GT identification, private school or magnet school admissions, or for college and grad school is such a racket.

I wasn’t willing to invest the money, but many parents spends thousands of dollars prepping their kid. My kid took the ACT one time and spent a weekend looking over the practice exams provided. I wonder if schools knew he only took it once, but he was admitted to several top 20s.

Same for my kid, who did note it was one and only sitting on the Common App. My younger DC is not such a strong test taker. I plan on getting him started early with Khan Academy, and that's it.