19yo DD failed her freshman year and now is at home refusing to work or go to school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean nothing about failing at life indicated perfectionism to me.

My sibling with ADHD is like this. Either it comes easily and they're the best at it and outshine their peers, or they're the worst and it's not even worth trying if they're just going to be mediocre. Sibling also failed out of their first year of college because of the anxiety and the "why even try if I already screwed something up?" factor, so yeah, it can be self sabotaging.

No magic bullet. Sibling eventually went to community college or worked crappy jobs (basically would get sick enough of one to bounce back to the other each semester), got AA degree after a few years, finished at a good state school mid-20s.

OP's daughter has the alcohol issue on top though. That needs to be dealt with. She's self medicating for depression in a very self destructive way.

Yes, your sibling has the textbook “black and white” thinking that many people with ADHD have. Everything is incredibly easy or too hard, a triumph or an abysmal failure, the best or the worst. It’s a lifelong struggle to overcome that way of thinking.

“Black and white thinking” is in fact not in any textbook describing ADHD. It is however part of the textbook description of BPD, as well as the type of dysfunctional thinking that may underlie depression.

Feel free to google ADHD and black and white thinking. While I wasn’t citing the DSM (lol), it is a very well known phenomenon clinicians have observed in individuals with ADHD.

I’m sure you can dig up a blog post saying anything. But black and white thinking is not an ADHD symptom or diagnostic criteria. I’m not sure why you are lol‘ing at the DSM while simultaneously trying to say something you think is intelligent about a ADHD.

Just google it. I didn’t make it up.

I’m not going to “just google it.” That’s the whole problem with diagnosis via pop culture.

We’re not even discussing a diagnosis. Black and white thinking isn’t a diagnosis. It’s not part of the diagnostic criteria for ADHD. It’s just a very common thought process among people with ADHD diagnoses, the same as chronic constipation is more prevalent among kids with ADHD, but the presence or absence of chronic constipation doesn’t confirm or rule out an ADHD diagnosis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She is self-medicating her insecurity and shame with alcohol, OP.

Also, perfectionism, anxiety, mental rigidity are all red flags for mild autism. In girls specifically, autism sometimes doesn't come with the social deficits one often sees in boys. At minimum, your child has significant anxiety. She could also be on the spectrum if she exhibits high levels of rigidity.

She may need meds for anxiety or depression, OP. You need to get her to a psychiatrist or do another evaluation at a psychologist's office. You'll have to see whether she functions better on ADHD meds plus anxiety meds, or if she only needs anxiety meds.

But you really need to explain to her the link between her drinking and her feelings of inadequacy. She can be either in a downward spiral, like she is, or in an upward spiral: going to community college, transferring to her local state college, and feeling much better about herself. For that to work, she needs to control the drinking, especially since she will be taking meds that don't really go with alcohol.

You really need to insist. There is no car or phone or money if she cannot be responsible.
And please don't kick her out, for her own health and safety, unless she starts becoming dangerous. Otherwise in the state she's in, she's going to hit rock bottom in a way that might be terminal.

Me again. I mention mild autism because ASD almost always comes with ADHD and anxiety. It's a package deal. A lot of kids with ADHD only have that diagnosis. But kids with autism usually also have comorbidities. The combined diagnosis might explain why she's so stubborn. My ASD/ADHD son could only be diagnosed with a combined diagnosis when we repeated the evaluation while he was medicated for ADHD, because he was so inattentive that the ADHD was masking all other diagnoses.

She doesn’t have autism. She has a boyfriend and “had a great year socially.”

She doesn’t have ADHD. OP relates that her “grades slipped suddenly” in HS.

Something else is going on and these misdiagnoses just show the danger of lumping all kids into two fashionable categories.

To me she sounds basically irresponsible and immature, and possible with a drinking problem. I think therapy to help her accept what she did wrong in school and decide on her next steps is important. But I think it is even more important that OP stop enabling.

You're so OFFENSIVE and IGNORANT. We're not blindly following "fashionable" categories. I have ADHD, never diagnosed, but my grades started slipping in high school when demand for focus and multi-tasking sky-rocketed. I was a star student before that. My kids have ADHD as well. Only one was diagnosed in primary school, because his version is unfortunately severe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean nothing about failing at life indicated perfectionism to me.

My sibling with ADHD is like this. Either it comes easily and they're the best at it and outshine their peers, or they're the worst and it's not even worth trying if they're just going to be mediocre. Sibling also failed out of their first year of college because of the anxiety and the "why even try if I already screwed something up?" factor, so yeah, it can be self sabotaging.

No magic bullet. Sibling eventually went to community college or worked crappy jobs (basically would get sick enough of one to bounce back to the other each semester), got AA degree after a few years, finished at a good state school mid-20s.

OP's daughter has the alcohol issue on top though. That needs to be dealt with. She's self medicating for depression in a very self destructive way.

Yes, your sibling has the textbook “black and white” thinking that many people with ADHD have. Everything is incredibly easy or too hard, a triumph or an abysmal failure, the best or the worst. It’s a lifelong struggle to overcome that way of thinking.

“Black and white thinking” is in fact not in any textbook describing ADHD. It is however part of the textbook description of BPD, as well as the type of dysfunctional thinking that may underlie depression.

Feel free to google ADHD and black and white thinking. While I wasn’t citing the DSM (lol), it is a very well known phenomenon clinicians have observed in individuals with ADHD.

I’m sure you can dig up a blog post saying anything. But black and white thinking is not an ADHD symptom or diagnostic criteria. I’m not sure why you are lol‘ing at the DSM while simultaneously trying to say something you think is intelligent about a ADHD.

Just google it. I didn’t make it up.

I’m not going to “just google it.” That’s the whole problem with diagnosis via pop culture.

We’re not even discussing a diagnosis. Black and white thinking isn’t a diagnosis. It’s not part of the diagnostic criteria for ADHD. It’s just a very common thought process among people with ADHD diagnoses, the same as chronic constipation is more prevalent among kids with ADHD, but the presence or absence of chronic constipation doesn’t confirm or rule out an ADHD diagnosis.

Oh please. "Black and white thinking" is typical of every teenager on the planet. It's part of being immature and, you know, a teenager.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP Here- We don’t want it to get to the point of having her kicked out of the house or stop supporting her financially. But she doesn’t want any help and won’t acknowledge the drinking problem. Naturally she’s super bright which is why she lucked out and got into a better college than we thought she would with her high SAT score. She went to class but didn’t do a lot of the work so I know she was trying but struggling. She told me she physically felt like she couldn’t just sit down and do it. She’d be in class and everyone would be working on an assignment but she’d just always feel the need to push it off and didn’t have energy to do it. She did the easier assignments but still failed cause they only made up a smaller portion of her grade in each class. The main reason she’s says she doesn’t want job is because she is very fearful/anxious of bad things that happen in the world so she’s afraid of experiencing something bad at work like crime, assault, violence, abuse, etc. She needs therapy but won’t attend. She’s always been ambitious and loved learning but never really was fond about having to work. DH and I are on the same page with this and looking for solutions.

People are like this because their parents let them.

It really is as simple as that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She is self-medicating her insecurity and shame with alcohol, OP.

Also, perfectionism, anxiety, mental rigidity are all red flags for mild autism. In girls specifically, autism sometimes doesn't come with the social deficits one often sees in boys. At minimum, your child has significant anxiety. She could also be on the spectrum if she exhibits high levels of rigidity.

She may need meds for anxiety or depression, OP. You need to get her to a psychiatrist or do another evaluation at a psychologist's office. You'll have to see whether she functions better on ADHD meds plus anxiety meds, or if she only needs anxiety meds.

But you really need to explain to her the link between her drinking and her feelings of inadequacy. She can be either in a downward spiral, like she is, or in an upward spiral: going to community college, transferring to her local state college, and feeling much better about herself. For that to work, she needs to control the drinking, especially since she will be taking meds that don't really go with alcohol.

You really need to insist. There is no car or phone or money if she cannot be responsible.
And please don't kick her out, for her own health and safety, unless she starts becoming dangerous. Otherwise in the state she's in, she's going to hit rock bottom in a way that might be terminal.

Me again. I mention mild autism because ASD almost always comes with ADHD and anxiety. It's a package deal. A lot of kids with ADHD only have that diagnosis. But kids with autism usually also have comorbidities. The combined diagnosis might explain why she's so stubborn. My ASD/ADHD son could only be diagnosed with a combined diagnosis when we repeated the evaluation while he was medicated for ADHD, because he was so inattentive that the ADHD was masking all other diagnoses.

She doesn’t have autism. She has a boyfriend and “had a great year socially.”

She doesn’t have ADHD. OP relates that her “grades slipped suddenly” in HS.

Something else is going on and these misdiagnoses just show the danger of lumping all kids into two fashionable categories.

To me she sounds basically irresponsible and immature, and possible with a drinking problem. I think therapy to help her accept what she did wrong in school and decide on her next steps is important. But I think it is even more important that OP stop enabling.

+1 to all of this. OP is the problem, or is at least exacerbating it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean nothing about failing at life indicated perfectionism to me.

My sibling with ADHD is like this. Either it comes easily and they're the best at it and outshine their peers, or they're the worst and it's not even worth trying if they're just going to be mediocre. Sibling also failed out of their first year of college because of the anxiety and the "why even try if I already screwed something up?" factor, so yeah, it can be self sabotaging.

No magic bullet. Sibling eventually went to community college or worked crappy jobs (basically would get sick enough of one to bounce back to the other each semester), got AA degree after a few years, finished at a good state school mid-20s.

OP's daughter has the alcohol issue on top though. That needs to be dealt with. She's self medicating for depression in a very self destructive way.

Yes, your sibling has the textbook “black and white” thinking that many people with ADHD have. Everything is incredibly easy or too hard, a triumph or an abysmal failure, the best or the worst. It’s a lifelong struggle to overcome that way of thinking.

“Black and white thinking” is in fact not in any textbook describing ADHD. It is however part of the textbook description of BPD, as well as the type of dysfunctional thinking that may underlie depression.

Feel free to google ADHD and black and white thinking. While I wasn’t citing the DSM (lol), it is a very well known phenomenon clinicians have observed in individuals with ADHD.

I’m sure you can dig up a blog post saying anything. But black and white thinking is not an ADHD symptom or diagnostic criteria. I’m not sure why you are lol‘ing at the DSM while simultaneously trying to say something you think is intelligent about a ADHD.

Just google it. I didn’t make it up.

I’m not going to “just google it.” That’s the whole problem with diagnosis via pop culture.

We’re not even discussing a diagnosis. Black and white thinking isn’t a diagnosis. It’s not part of the diagnostic criteria for ADHD. It’s just a very common thought process among people with ADHD diagnoses, the same as chronic constipation is more prevalent among kids with ADHD, but the presence or absence of chronic constipation doesn’t confirm or rule out an ADHD diagnosis.

Oh brother.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP Here- We don’t want it to get to the point of having her kicked out of the house or stop supporting her financially. But she doesn’t want any help and won’t acknowledge the drinking problem. Naturally she’s super bright which is why she lucked out and got into a better college than we thought she would with her high SAT score. She went to class but didn’t do a lot of the work so I know she was trying but struggling. She told me she physically felt like she couldn’t just sit down and do it. She’d be in class and everyone would be working on an assignment but she’d just always feel the need to push it off and didn’t have energy to do it. She did the easier assignments but still failed cause they only made up a smaller portion of her grade in each class. The main reason she’s says she doesn’t want job is because she is very fearful/anxious of bad things that happen in the world so she’s afraid of experiencing something bad at work like crime, assault, violence, abuse, etc. She needs therapy but won’t attend. She’s always been ambitious and loved learning but never really was fond about having to work. DH and I are on the same page with this and looking for solutions.

She does not need therapy. She needs a swift kick in the pants and parents to stop treating her like she's 10 years old.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean nothing about failing at life indicated perfectionism to me.

My sibling with ADHD is like this. Either it comes easily and they're the best at it and outshine their peers, or they're the worst and it's not even worth trying if they're just going to be mediocre. Sibling also failed out of their first year of college because of the anxiety and the "why even try if I already screwed something up?" factor, so yeah, it can be self sabotaging.

No magic bullet. Sibling eventually went to community college or worked crappy jobs (basically would get sick enough of one to bounce back to the other each semester), got AA degree after a few years, finished at a good state school mid-20s.

OP's daughter has the alcohol issue on top though. That needs to be dealt with. She's self medicating for depression in a very self destructive way.

Yes, your sibling has the textbook “black and white” thinking that many people with ADHD have. Everything is incredibly easy or too hard, a triumph or an abysmal failure, the best or the worst. It’s a lifelong struggle to overcome that way of thinking.

“Black and white thinking” is in fact not in any textbook describing ADHD. It is however part of the textbook description of BPD, as well as the type of dysfunctional thinking that may underlie depression.

It's also a symptom of ptsd, trauma, autism, etc. It is a maladaptive coping mechanism.

+1. and BPD and anxiety and just being plain old neurotic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP Here- We don’t want it to get to the point of having her kicked out of the house or stop supporting her financially. But she doesn’t want any help and won’t acknowledge the drinking problem. Naturally she’s super bright which is why she lucked out and got into a better college than we thought she would with her high SAT score. She went to class but didn’t do a lot of the work so I know she was trying but struggling. She told me she physically felt like she couldn’t just sit down and do it. She’d be in class and everyone would be working on an assignment but she’d just always feel the need to push it off and didn’t have energy to do it. She did the easier assignments but still failed cause they only made up a smaller portion of her grade in each class. The main reason she’s says she doesn’t want job is because she is very fearful/anxious of bad things that happen in the world so she’s afraid of experiencing something bad at work like crime, assault, violence, abuse, etc. She needs therapy but won’t attend. She’s always been ambitious and loved learning but never really was fond about having to work. DH and I are on the same page with this and looking for solutions.

Oh no. I don't want to scare you, but I have a sibling like this (very bright, came home, self-medicated with alcohol, fearful).

He died at age 47 from liver failure. He never left home, and never worked. His life was a complete tragedy.

My parents enabled his dysfunction and thought they were being kind by being soft with him.

This kind of person needs psychological support, and needs strict boundaries so they feel pressure to work to support themselves. She needs a job, even PT. Do NOT allow her to not work because she is afraid of things -- it makes her fears seem legitimate, but they aren't. Life involves taking small risks every day.

Do not tolerate dysfunction. You need to push her to be functional, or she will continue to spiral down.

[Anonymous]

The more you describe her, the more I think she does have some mild levels of ADHD and autism, but that the most important thing you need to address is the anxiety, which is a component of both anyway. It's what's holding her back everywhere right now. And she's drinking because she's anxious.

You need to use all the leverage you have to get her to medicate her anxiety. Use the rehab concept: she only gets basic things like food and shelter for the first week. No allowance, car, or phone. She needs to earn those things back by not abusing alcohol, and by taking her meds for anxiety. Then when she's stable, she needs to sign up for community college (and a part-time job if it fits in her schedule). The goal is to transfer to a state college later to finish her bachelor's.

But right now there's no timeline. You will dole out money and transportation privileges only if she complies with her treatment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP Here- We don’t want it to get to the point of having her kicked out of the house or stop supporting her financially. But she doesn’t want any help and won’t acknowledge the drinking problem. Naturally she’s super bright which is why she lucked out and got into a better college than we thought she would with her high SAT score. She went to class but didn’t do a lot of the work so I know she was trying but struggling. She told me she physically felt like she couldn’t just sit down and do it. She’d be in class and everyone would be working on an assignment but she’d just always feel the need to push it off and didn’t have energy to do it. She did the easier assignments but still failed cause they only made up a smaller portion of her grade in each class. The main reason she’s says she doesn’t want job is because she is very fearful/anxious of bad things that happen in the world so she’s afraid of experiencing something bad at work like crime, assault, violence, abuse, etc. She needs therapy but won’t attend. She’s always been ambitious and loved learning but never really was fond about having to work. DH and I are on the same page with this and looking for solutions.

People are like this because their parents let them.

It really is as simple as that.

+100. Therapy plus job or school, or she can tell you what bridge she wants to live under and you can drop her off. If you let her live with you and do nothing to help herself, she will be your problem forever.

[Anonymous]

Family therapy, to kay down some ground rules.

They can also assess if she needs treatment for substance abuse disorder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Family therapy, to kay down some ground rules.

They can also assess if she needs treatment for substance abuse disorder.

*lay down

[Anonymous]

1) not your fault at all. You parented her the best you could. This is on her
2) with your DH, give her a big hug and say we love you no matter what and always will
3) then tell her she has 3 choices: join the military, enroll in CC at lease 3 classes and shape up (no more coming home drunk) or move out if she thinks she’s an adult and doesn’t have to follow your house rules any more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:1) not your fault at all. You parented her the best you could. This is on her
2) with your DH, give her a big hug and say we love you no matter what and always will
3) then tell her she has 3 choices: join the military, enroll in CC at lease 3 classes and shape up (no more coming home drunk) or move out if she thinks she’s an adult and doesn’t have to follow your house rules any more.

Sorry, meant to say I went through this exactly 2 years ago