What needs to change for MS for gifted/advanced students?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MCPS won’t listen to you. The WaPo just published on this fact:

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1285329.page

If you are the parent of an academically advanced student in Montgomery County, you should send your child to a private school.

One thing my child learned in the Eastern magnet was the difference between a fact and an opinion.

That is an op-ed. Opinion is literally in the title.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The one program that the choice study really praised was the Middle School Magnet Consortium (Parkland Loiederman Argyle). The real strength of it is the 8 period block schedule because advanced students can take more electives (typically language, music, +elective focus) and students who need remedial support can take an additional reading class. The main problem is cost - the equivalent to 5/7 teacher load is 5.5/8. The county really needs to put more money towards that staffing model and fund 5/8 where the teachers have built in staff development in addition to planning and team time. It helps the staff be more responsive to student needs.

While I’m all for keeping kids in their neighborhood school, there is something to be said for letting parents and kids choose their school for focus area or to get away from kids in their elementary. If the county grouped every middle school into clusters of 2 or 3, created a focus, and shifted to the 8 period block, there would be some flexibility to develop programming to meet the needs of all students.

MSMC is nice, but it's for regular kids who like learning more than babysitting.
Academically advanced / gifted kids aren't well served by it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS won’t listen to you. The WaPo just published on this fact:

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1285329.page

If you are the parent of an academically advanced student in Montgomery County, you should send your child to a private school.

One thing my child learned in the Eastern magnet was the difference between a fact and an opinion.

That is an op-ed. Opinion is literally in the title.

If you think MCPS will share the “facts,”you have a deeper misunderstanding issue.

Dp

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:As someone who taught at a non-magnet middle school here in the county I would like to see them create accelerated or challenging classes at all the middle schools. There are plenty of students at are not being challenged or are having their learning disrupted by integrated classes. I understand you can argue that those students should apply to Magnet programs but sometimes those don't work logistically for all families.

At my school there was an accelerated math class but that was pretty much the only option for kids who wanted a challenge. There were no accelerated science, history, or english classes. There was a medical based science elective but more often than not it was used as a dumping ground by counseling to make schedules work.

Was there no HIGH or are you saying you don't consider HIGH challenging?

I have no idea what HIGH stands for but there were no honors or on level differentiation in any classes other than this advanced Math course. Everyone was placed in the same classes together.

HIGH is the accelerated social studies class. In my kid's middle school, there's differentiation only for Math and social studies. Maybe all schools don't have HIGH or PP's kid didn't wasn't selected (not sure what the selection criteria are-my kid was assigned to it).

Historical Inquiry in Global Humanities. Several schools just assign all students to this social studies class in 6th and 7th, even though it was originally intended to be an "enriched" class for students identified by central office as magnet-eligible but who weren't able to get a spot.

As long as this keeps happening, we still need the magnets. If we could have actual advanced classes in every school for kids who want to do the work, I’d be happy to say goodbye to the magnets.

Yeah, I feel like there are two questions here:

1) What's the best thing to push for in theory?
2). What's the best thing to push for given the actual MCPS we have, that is least likely to be executed poorly or taken away?

It's totally possible to have two different answers to this. I think I agree that having strong advanced, cohorted classes in all middle schools is better and more important in theory, if MCPS could be trusted to deliver on and keep them. But if any principal can make those classes honors for all and Central Office can snap their fingers and take them away at any time, maybe it's better to push for a bunch more magnet middle schools which are harder to get rid of once they've been launched?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who taught at a non-magnet middle school here in the county I would like to see them create accelerated or challenging classes at all the middle schools. There are plenty of students at are not being challenged or are having their learning disrupted by integrated classes. I understand you can argue that those students should apply to Magnet programs but sometimes those don't work logistically for all families.

At my school there was an accelerated math class but that was pretty much the only option for kids who wanted a challenge. There were no accelerated science, history, or english classes. There was a medical based science elective but more often than not it was used as a dumping ground by counseling to make schedules work.

Was there no HIGH or are you saying you don't consider HIGH challenging?

I have no idea what HIGH stands for but there were no honors or on level differentiation in any classes other than this advanced Math course. Everyone was placed in the same classes together.

HIGH is the accelerated social studies class. In my kid's middle school, there's differentiation only for Math and social studies. Maybe all schools don't have HIGH or PP's kid didn't wasn't selected (not sure what the selection criteria are-my kid was assigned to it).

Historical Inquiry in Global Humanities. Several schools just assign all students to this social studies class in 6th and 7th, even though it was originally intended to be an "enriched" class for students identified by central office as magnet-eligible but who weren't able to get a spot.

As long as this keeps happening, we still need the magnets. If we could have actual advanced classes in every school for kids who want to do the work, I’d be happy to say goodbye to the magnets.

Yeah, I feel like there are two questions here:

1) What's the best thing to push for in theory?
2). What's the best thing to push for given the actual MCPS we have, that is least likely to be executed poorly or taken away?

It's totally possible to have two different answers to this. I think I agree that having strong advanced, cohorted classes in all middle schools is better and more important in theory, if MCPS could be trusted to deliver on and keep them. But if any principal can make those classes honors for all and Central Office can snap their fingers and take them away at any time, maybe it's better to push for a bunch more magnet middle schools which are harder to get rid of once they've been launched?

Funny thing to say in the year that MCPS announced plans to kill both the magnet middle school and magnet high school program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Agreed with everyone saying actual acceleration and differentiation. The thing is, this would be SO EASY.

MCPS had actual Advanced English for MS up until just a few years ago. It existed so recently that our home school accidentally used the summer reading handout from that era a year ago, and only later clarified that everyone should do the easier version. The Advanced version was right there! We could all see that it was more rigorous, but the children were only held to the on-level homework.

Similarly, the HIGH curriculum was developed for an advanced cohort, back when MCPS started using peer norming for MS magnet admissions. The explicit promise at that time (which I can still find in Parent Vue) was that kids who would have previously attended the MS magnets would receive an equivalent education at their home school, through the introduction of HIGH and AIM.

Of course, now HIGH is honors for all at most schools, and AIM no longer exists.

The one place I disagree with PPs is about offering advanced math if only 10 kids sign up. That's not a good use of resources, and those kids should do what they've always done and travel to HS for Algebra II or whatever they need.

AIM exists in my kid’s school. Other schools have advanced 6th graders take 7+. Either way kids are leaning 7/8 standards in one year. And regardless, next year these students will take the new Pre-Algebra class — also compacting 7/8 standards into a year.

HIGH is cohorted in my kid’s school but is still a joke. It adds one project and two very short, easy books to the base curriculum — it is not rigorous and is just too easy. I am not surprised that they do HIGH for all in some schools because it is an easy class, not at all comparable to what they do in Eastern.

They need a truly advanced social studies class and need to add truly advanced, cohorted English and science classes in all schools. Math and language are the only potentially challenging courses for kids right now, which means that magnets play a disproportionately important role for gifted/advanced students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The educational philosophies seem to go in circles. Track -> Mix -> Track -> Mix

I am a GenXer and the advanced students were fully tracked from 6th grade into advanced classes and some tracking started as early as K for kids who came in with high scores. In our rural community, this favored the children of teachers.

Obviously this system had its own set of problems because it labeled the kids at a young age, and movement up and down the tracks was difficult. In the lower grades there was an advanced classroom.

Everyone commenting on DCUM wants what they perceive is best for their kid(s), but the system has to look at the bigger picture.

MCPS could use flexible class placement rather than tracking. In other words, place people in cohorted classes and them let them in and out as appropriate. Kid could start in on-level class but then be moved the next year to the advanced class if they do well, or start in advanced and then move down to on-level. It does not have to be tracking, which sets the classes rigidly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who taught at a non-magnet middle school here in the county I would like to see them create accelerated or challenging classes at all the middle schools. There are plenty of students at are not being challenged or are having their learning disrupted by integrated classes. I understand you can argue that those students should apply to Magnet programs but sometimes those don't work logistically for all families.

At my school there was an accelerated math class but that was pretty much the only option for kids who wanted a challenge. There were no accelerated science, history, or english classes. There was a medical based science elective but more often than not it was used as a dumping ground by counseling to make schedules work.

Was there no HIGH or are you saying you don't consider HIGH challenging?

I have no idea what HIGH stands for but there were no honors or on level differentiation in any classes other than this advanced Math course. Everyone was placed in the same classes together.

HIGH is the accelerated social studies class. In my kid's middle school, there's differentiation only for Math and social studies. Maybe all schools don't have HIGH or PP's kid didn't wasn't selected (not sure what the selection criteria are-my kid was assigned to it).

Historical Inquiry in Global Humanities. Several schools just assign all students to this social studies class in 6th and 7th, even though it was originally intended to be an "enriched" class for students identified by central office as magnet-eligible but who weren't able to get a spot.

As long as this keeps happening, we still need the magnets. If we could have actual advanced classes in every school for kids who want to do the work, I’d be happy to say goodbye to the magnets.

Yeah, I feel like there are two questions here:

1) What's the best thing to push for in theory?
2). What's the best thing to push for given the actual MCPS we have, that is least likely to be executed poorly or taken away?

It's totally possible to have two different answers to this. I think I agree that having strong advanced, cohorted classes in all middle schools is better and more important in theory, if MCPS could be trusted to deliver on and keep them. But if any principal can make those classes honors for all and Central Office can snap their fingers and take them away at any time, maybe it's better to push for a bunch more magnet middle schools which are harder to get rid of once they've been launched?

Funny thing to say in the year that MCPS announced plans to kill both the magnet middle school and magnet high school program.

Where is this announcement?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The educational philosophies seem to go in circles. Track -> Mix -> Track -> Mix

I am a GenXer and the advanced students were fully tracked from 6th grade into advanced classes and some tracking started as early as K for kids who came in with high scores. In our rural community, this favored the children of teachers.

Obviously this system had its own set of problems because it labeled the kids at a young age, and movement up and down the tracks was difficult. In the lower grades there was an advanced classroom.

Everyone commenting on DCUM wants what they perceive is best for their kid(s), but the system has to look at the bigger picture.

MCPS could use flexible class placement rather than tracking. In other words, place people in cohorted classes and them let them in and out as appropriate. Kid could start in on-level class but then be moved the next year to the advanced class if they do well, or start in advanced and then move down to on-level. It does not have to be tracking, which sets the classes rigidly.

Maybe, but that would require either hiring more teachers to save spaces for kids moving up/down or parent and teacher acceptance of much larger classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who taught at a non-magnet middle school here in the county I would like to see them create accelerated or challenging classes at all the middle schools. There are plenty of students at are not being challenged or are having their learning disrupted by integrated classes. I understand you can argue that those students should apply to Magnet programs but sometimes those don't work logistically for all families.

At my school there was an accelerated math class but that was pretty much the only option for kids who wanted a challenge. There were no accelerated science, history, or english classes. There was a medical based science elective but more often than not it was used as a dumping ground by counseling to make schedules work.

Was there no HIGH or are you saying you don't consider HIGH challenging?

I have no idea what HIGH stands for but there were no honors or on level differentiation in any classes other than this advanced Math course. Everyone was placed in the same classes together.

HIGH is the accelerated social studies class. In my kid's middle school, there's differentiation only for Math and social studies. Maybe all schools don't have HIGH or PP's kid didn't wasn't selected (not sure what the selection criteria are-my kid was assigned to it).

Historical Inquiry in Global Humanities. Several schools just assign all students to this social studies class in 6th and 7th, even though it was originally intended to be an "enriched" class for students identified by central office as magnet-eligible but who weren't able to get a spot.

As long as this keeps happening, we still need the magnets. If we could have actual advanced classes in every school for kids who want to do the work, I’d be happy to say goodbye to the magnets.

Yeah, I feel like there are two questions here:

1) What's the best thing to push for in theory?
2). What's the best thing to push for given the actual MCPS we have, that is least likely to be executed poorly or taken away?

It's totally possible to have two different answers to this. I think I agree that having strong advanced, cohorted classes in all middle schools is better and more important in theory, if MCPS could be trusted to deliver on and keep them. But if any principal can make those classes honors for all and Central Office can snap their fingers and take them away at any time, maybe it's better to push for a bunch more magnet middle schools which are harder to get rid of once they've been launched?

Funny thing to say in the year that MCPS announced plans to kill both the magnet middle school and magnet high school program.

Where is this announcement?

I think this is the parent who likes to complain about TPMS dropping the block schedule for next year, meaning that TPMS magnet kids will only have one rather than two elective slots (like at many other magnets), which according to this person is equivalent to destroying the TPMS magnet?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agreed with everyone saying actual acceleration and differentiation. The thing is, this would be SO EASY.

MCPS had actual Advanced English for MS up until just a few years ago. It existed so recently that our home school accidentally used the summer reading handout from that era a year ago, and only later clarified that everyone should do the easier version. The Advanced version was right there! We could all see that it was more rigorous, but the children were only held to the on-level homework.

Similarly, the HIGH curriculum was developed for an advanced cohort, back when MCPS started using peer norming for MS magnet admissions. The explicit promise at that time (which I can still find in Parent Vue) was that kids who would have previously attended the MS magnets would receive an equivalent education at their home school, through the introduction of HIGH and AIM.

Of course, now HIGH is honors for all at most schools, and AIM no longer exists.

The one place I disagree with PPs is about offering advanced math if only 10 kids sign up. That's not a good use of resources, and those kids should do what they've always done and travel to HS for Algebra II or whatever they need.

Can you say more about the history of advanced English in middle school? In particular, I thought I had heard that there hasn't been real advanced English class in MS in ages, but that there is a course called Advanced English that is not very challenging and that most schools put most kids into ("honors for all"-style.). Is that not the case and there has actually been a rigorous Advanced English class in middle school in recent years that went away? If so, does anyone know the backstory of that (whether getting rid of it was driven by Central Office or by principals, etc)?

I don't know personally either, but in this thread someone says "Sorry to be clear — having a regular and an honors course is something parents have king pushed for, and MCPS has said no to because of equity concerns" ( https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/90/1273831.page ) and here someone says "This is a directive from the county. I have taught at BOTH of the middle schools mentioned in the OP. Advanced English for all. No choice for the school itself to make. From my understanding, it also makes parents happier/complain less. It's all such a mess." ( https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/15/1049483.page ). Anyone have any additional insight to share?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who taught at a non-magnet middle school here in the county I would like to see them create accelerated or challenging classes at all the middle schools. There are plenty of students at are not being challenged or are having their learning disrupted by integrated classes. I understand you can argue that those students should apply to Magnet programs but sometimes those don't work logistically for all families.

At my school there was an accelerated math class but that was pretty much the only option for kids who wanted a challenge. There were no accelerated science, history, or english classes. There was a medical based science elective but more often than not it was used as a dumping ground by counseling to make schedules work.

Was there no HIGH or are you saying you don't consider HIGH challenging?

I have no idea what HIGH stands for but there were no honors or on level differentiation in any classes other than this advanced Math course. Everyone was placed in the same classes together.

HIGH is the accelerated social studies class. In my kid's middle school, there's differentiation only for Math and social studies. Maybe all schools don't have HIGH or PP's kid didn't wasn't selected (not sure what the selection criteria are-my kid was assigned to it).

Historical Inquiry in Global Humanities. Several schools just assign all students to this social studies class in 6th and 7th, even though it was originally intended to be an "enriched" class for students identified by central office as magnet-eligible but who weren't able to get a spot.

As long as this keeps happening, we still need the magnets. If we could have actual advanced classes in every school for kids who want to do the work, I’d be happy to say goodbye to the magnets.

Yeah, I feel like there are two questions here:

1) What's the best thing to push for in theory?
2). What's the best thing to push for given the actual MCPS we have, that is least likely to be executed poorly or taken away?

It's totally possible to have two different answers to this. I think I agree that having strong advanced, cohorted classes in all middle schools is better and more important in theory, if MCPS could be trusted to deliver on and keep them. But if any principal can make those classes honors for all and Central Office can snap their fingers and take them away at any time, maybe it's better to push for a bunch more magnet middle schools which are harder to get rid of once they've been launched?

Funny thing to say in the year that MCPS announced plans to kill both the magnet middle school and magnet high school program.

Where is this announcement?

It doesn't exist. MCPS is analyzing its special programs and will propose changes at the end of this year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who taught at a non-magnet middle school here in the county I would like to see them create accelerated or challenging classes at all the middle schools. There are plenty of students at are not being challenged or are having their learning disrupted by integrated classes. I understand you can argue that those students should apply to Magnet programs but sometimes those don't work logistically for all families.

At my school there was an accelerated math class but that was pretty much the only option for kids who wanted a challenge. There were no accelerated science, history, or english classes. There was a medical based science elective but more often than not it was used as a dumping ground by counseling to make schedules work.

Was there no HIGH or are you saying you don't consider HIGH challenging?

I have no idea what HIGH stands for but there were no honors or on level differentiation in any classes other than this advanced Math course. Everyone was placed in the same classes together.

HIGH is the accelerated social studies class. In my kid's middle school, there's differentiation only for Math and social studies. Maybe all schools don't have HIGH or PP's kid didn't wasn't selected (not sure what the selection criteria are-my kid was assigned to it).

Historical Inquiry in Global Humanities. Several schools just assign all students to this social studies class in 6th and 7th, even though it was originally intended to be an "enriched" class for students identified by central office as magnet-eligible but who weren't able to get a spot.

As long as this keeps happening, we still need the magnets. If we could have actual advanced classes in every school for kids who want to do the work, I’d be happy to say goodbye to the magnets.

Yeah, I feel like there are two questions here:

1) What's the best thing to push for in theory?
2). What's the best thing to push for given the actual MCPS we have, that is least likely to be executed poorly or taken away?

It's totally possible to have two different answers to this. I think I agree that having strong advanced, cohorted classes in all middle schools is better and more important in theory, if MCPS could be trusted to deliver on and keep them. But if any principal can make those classes honors for all and Central Office can snap their fingers and take them away at any time, maybe it's better to push for a bunch more magnet middle schools which are harder to get rid of once they've been launched?

Funny thing to say in the year that MCPS announced plans to kill both the magnet middle school and magnet high school program.

Where is this announcement?

It doesn't exist. MCPS is analyzing its special programs and will propose changes at the end of this year.

Yeah I would ignore that parent (who also apparently thinks TPMS is "the magnet middle school" and Blair SMCS is "the magnet high school" while ignoring the existence of other magnets.). Saying they're planning on killing Blair is, while overdramatic, at least linked to a somewhat reasonable concern regarding the potential impact of the Blair eligibility pool shrinking down from 17 to 5 high schools. On the other hand, the assertion that the locally-made TPMS decision to switch from block schedule to a regular 7 period day is "MCPS killing the middle school magnet'" is bananas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’d like to see kids staying in their home school. There shoujd be classes at all the schools for all the kids varying levels.

Going back to the "Separate but Equal" doctrine, are we?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who taught at a non-magnet middle school here in the county I would like to see them create accelerated or challenging classes at all the middle schools. There are plenty of students at are not being challenged or are having their learning disrupted by integrated classes. I understand you can argue that those students should apply to Magnet programs but sometimes those don't work logistically for all families.

At my school there was an accelerated math class but that was pretty much the only option for kids who wanted a challenge. There were no accelerated science, history, or english classes. There was a medical based science elective but more often than not it was used as a dumping ground by counseling to make schedules work.

Was there no HIGH or are you saying you don't consider HIGH challenging?

I have no idea what HIGH stands for but there were no honors or on level differentiation in any classes other than this advanced Math course. Everyone was placed in the same classes together.

They are going to regionalize these programs and duplicate them. Nice in theory, but cohorts of highly able students are not lurking in every area of the county. See the July 24 BOE meeting for reference. Or, read the Bethesda Magazine announcement:

https://bethesdamagazine.com/2025/07/25/mcps-end-countywide-program-consortia/

HIGH is the accelerated social studies class. In my kid's middle school, there's differentiation only for Math and social studies. Maybe all schools don't have HIGH or PP's kid didn't wasn't selected (not sure what the selection criteria are-my kid was assigned to it).

Historical Inquiry in Global Humanities. Several schools just assign all students to this social studies class in 6th and 7th, even though it was originally intended to be an "enriched" class for students identified by central office as magnet-eligible but who weren't able to get a spot.

As long as this keeps happening, we still need the magnets. If we could have actual advanced classes in every school for kids who want to do the work, I’d be happy to say goodbye to the magnets.

Yeah, I feel like there are two questions here:

1) What's the best thing to push for in theory?
2). What's the best thing to push for given the actual MCPS we have, that is least likely to be executed poorly or taken away?

It's totally possible to have two different answers to this. I think I agree that having strong advanced, cohorted classes in all middle schools is better and more important in theory, if MCPS could be trusted to deliver on and keep them. But if any principal can make those classes honors for all and Central Office can snap their fingers and take them away at any time, maybe it's better to push for a bunch more magnet middle schools which are harder to get rid of once they've been launched?

Funny thing to say in the year that MCPS announced plans to kill both the magnet middle school and magnet high school program.

Where is this announcement?