What needs to change for MS for gifted/advanced students?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:As someone who taught at a non-magnet middle school here in the county I would like to see them create accelerated or challenging classes at all the middle schools. There are plenty of students at are not being challenged or are having their learning disrupted by integrated classes. I understand you can argue that those students should apply to Magnet programs but sometimes those don't work logistically for all families.

At my school there was an accelerated math class but that was pretty much the only option for kids who wanted a challenge. There were no accelerated science, history, or english classes. There was a medical based science elective but more often than not it was used as a dumping ground by counseling to make schedules work.

Was there no HIGH or are you saying you don't consider HIGH challenging?

I have no idea what HIGH stands for but there were no honors or on level differentiation in any classes other than this advanced Math course. Everyone was placed in the same classes together.

HIGH is the accelerated social studies class. In my kid's middle school, there's differentiation only for Math and social studies. Maybe all schools don't have HIGH or PP's kid didn't wasn't selected (not sure what the selection criteria are-my kid was assigned to it).

Historical Inquiry in Global Humanities. Several schools just assign all students to this social studies class in 6th and 7th, even though it was originally intended to be an "enriched" class for students identified by central office as magnet-eligible but who weren't able to get a spot.

As long as this keeps happening, we still need the magnets. If we could have actual advanced classes in every school for kids who want to do the work, I’d be happy to say goodbye to the magnets.

Yeah, I feel like there are two questions here:

1) What's the best thing to push for in theory?
2). What's the best thing to push for given the actual MCPS we have, that is least likely to be executed poorly or taken away?

It's totally possible to have two different answers to this. I think I agree that having strong advanced, cohorted classes in all middle schools is better and more important in theory, if MCPS could be trusted to deliver on and keep them. But if any principal can make those classes honors for all and Central Office can snap their fingers and take them away at any time, maybe it's better to push for a bunch more magnet middle schools which are harder to get rid of once they've been launched?

Funny thing to say in the year that MCPS announced plans to kill both the magnet middle school and magnet high school program.

Where is this announcement?

They are going to regionalize these programs and duplicate them. Nice in theory, but cohorts of highly able students are not lurking in every area of the county. See the July 24 BOE meeting for reference. Or, read the Bethesda Magazine announcement:

https://bethesdamagazine.com/2025/07/25/mcps-end-countywide-program-consortia/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who taught at a non-magnet middle school here in the county I would like to see them create accelerated or challenging classes at all the middle schools. There are plenty of students at are not being challenged or are having their learning disrupted by integrated classes. I understand you can argue that those students should apply to Magnet programs but sometimes those don't work logistically for all families.

At my school there was an accelerated math class but that was pretty much the only option for kids who wanted a challenge. There were no accelerated science, history, or english classes. There was a medical based science elective but more often than not it was used as a dumping ground by counseling to make schedules work.

Was there no HIGH or are you saying you don't consider HIGH challenging?

I have no idea what HIGH stands for but there were no honors or on level differentiation in any classes other than this advanced Math course. Everyone was placed in the same classes together.

HIGH is the accelerated social studies class. In my kid's middle school, there's differentiation only for Math and social studies. Maybe all schools don't have HIGH or PP's kid didn't wasn't selected (not sure what the selection criteria are-my kid was assigned to it).

Historical Inquiry in Global Humanities. Several schools just assign all students to this social studies class in 6th and 7th, even though it was originally intended to be an "enriched" class for students identified by central office as magnet-eligible but who weren't able to get a spot.

As long as this keeps happening, we still need the magnets. If we could have actual advanced classes in every school for kids who want to do the work, I’d be happy to say goodbye to the magnets.

Yeah, I feel like there are two questions here:

1) What's the best thing to push for in theory?
2). What's the best thing to push for given the actual MCPS we have, that is least likely to be executed poorly or taken away?

It's totally possible to have two different answers to this. I think I agree that having strong advanced, cohorted classes in all middle schools is better and more important in theory, if MCPS could be trusted to deliver on and keep them. But if any principal can make those classes honors for all and Central Office can snap their fingers and take them away at any time, maybe it's better to push for a bunch more magnet middle schools which are harder to get rid of once they've been launched?

If anyone would be willing to share their/their kids' race and/or info on the demographics/income levels at their home middle school when weighing in on the questions in this thread, I think that could potentially be helpful. I am curious if opinions differ based on these factors regarding whether better home school classes are more important than more magnets or vice versa.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who taught at a non-magnet middle school here in the county I would like to see them create accelerated or challenging classes at all the middle schools. There are plenty of students at are not being challenged or are having their learning disrupted by integrated classes. I understand you can argue that those students should apply to Magnet programs but sometimes those don't work logistically for all families.

At my school there was an accelerated math class but that was pretty much the only option for kids who wanted a challenge. There were no accelerated science, history, or english classes. There was a medical based science elective but more often than not it was used as a dumping ground by counseling to make schedules work.

Was there no HIGH or are you saying you don't consider HIGH challenging?

I have no idea what HIGH stands for but there were no honors or on level differentiation in any classes other than this advanced Math course. Everyone was placed in the same classes together.

HIGH is the accelerated social studies class. In my kid's middle school, there's differentiation only for Math and social studies. Maybe all schools don't have HIGH or PP's kid didn't wasn't selected (not sure what the selection criteria are-my kid was assigned to it).

Historical Inquiry in Global Humanities. Several schools just assign all students to this social studies class in 6th and 7th, even though it was originally intended to be an "enriched" class for students identified by central office as magnet-eligible but who weren't able to get a spot.

As long as this keeps happening, we still need the magnets. If we could have actual advanced classes in every school for kids who want to do the work, I’d be happy to say goodbye to the magnets.

Yeah, I feel like there are two questions here:

1) What's the best thing to push for in theory?
2). What's the best thing to push for given the actual MCPS we have, that is least likely to be executed poorly or taken away?

It's totally possible to have two different answers to this. I think I agree that having strong advanced, cohorted classes in all middle schools is better and more important in theory, if MCPS could be trusted to deliver on and keep them. But if any principal can make those classes honors for all and Central Office can snap their fingers and take them away at any time, maybe it's better to push for a bunch more magnet middle schools which are harder to get rid of once they've been launched?

Funny thing to say in the year that MCPS announced plans to kill both the magnet middle school and magnet high school program.

Where is this announcement?

They are going to regionalize these programs and duplicate them. Nice in theory, but cohorts of highly able students are not lurking in every area of the county. See the July 24 BOE meeting for reference. Or, read the Bethesda Magazine announcement:

https://bethesdamagazine.com/2025/07/25/mcps-end-countywide-program-consortia/

How would you know that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have one kids who did a magnet MS and one who did not. The humanities magnet program curriculum was very rigorous and I’m not sure there are enough students at local MS that are willing to make that kind of jump. I remember the first quarter of sixth grade my kid wrote a 10+ page research paper using original sources from the 1800’s. And the grading was difficult too. It’s hard to imagine parents of kids that are smart but not gifted buying into that because there is no long term payoff (eg it doesn’t lead to advanced HS pathways) and it risks lowered grades for higher effort. That is likely to limit the cohort. HIGH is nice but in no way equivalent to the magnet.

I think MS magnets and acceleration only make sense if they lead to HS acceleration. This feels like in some subjects it doesn’t exist until several years in (English/literature). For other subjects advising and placement is inconsistent. For example, any kid that gets straight As at the humanities magnet or in HIGH so be defaulted to the AP history/gov pathway in freshman year. Instead this is unevenly applied at teacher discretion and only families who are in the know get their kids on the right pathway. The progression from MS to HS, outside of math, is where I sense things really fall apart.

It's nuts that the options are either a super-rigorous magnet or basically no rigor (especially if your kid isn't a math kid.). Why can't there be something in-between? Whether it's at a magnet or the home schools or both I don't care, but kids should have the opportunity to do challenging work without having to write 10-page research papers at age 11 (how can they even do that fresh out of honors-for-all ES?) and have hours of homework every night. You can't just have the far ends of the spectrum (either super-intense or essentially below-grade-level) with nothing in-between.

[Anonymous]

Why is there so much resistance to having advanced classes in middle school? Is it really that complicated scheduling-wise?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why is there so much resistance to having advanced classes in middle school? Is it really that complicated scheduling-wise?

Because there is a belief in education circles that "tracking," which is separating kids out based by ability, is "wrong," "evil" or "racist," pick your adjective, and therefore to be avoided.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who taught at a non-magnet middle school here in the county I would like to see them create accelerated or challenging classes at all the middle schools. There are plenty of students at are not being challenged or are having their learning disrupted by integrated classes. I understand you can argue that those students should apply to Magnet programs but sometimes those don't work logistically for all families.

At my school there was an accelerated math class but that was pretty much the only option for kids who wanted a challenge. There were no accelerated science, history, or english classes. There was a medical based science elective but more often than not it was used as a dumping ground by counseling to make schedules work.

Was there no HIGH or are you saying you don't consider HIGH challenging?

I have no idea what HIGH stands for but there were no honors or on level differentiation in any classes other than this advanced Math course. Everyone was placed in the same classes together.

HIGH is the accelerated social studies class. In my kid's middle school, there's differentiation only for Math and social studies. Maybe all schools don't have HIGH or PP's kid didn't wasn't selected (not sure what the selection criteria are-my kid was assigned to it).

Historical Inquiry in Global Humanities. Several schools just assign all students to this social studies class in 6th and 7th, even though it was originally intended to be an "enriched" class for students identified by central office as magnet-eligible but who weren't able to get a spot.

As long as this keeps happening, we still need the magnets. If we could have actual advanced classes in every school for kids who want to do the work, I’d be happy to say goodbye to the magnets.

Yeah, I feel like there are two questions here:

1) What's the best thing to push for in theory?
2). What's the best thing to push for given the actual MCPS we have, that is least likely to be executed poorly or taken away?

It's totally possible to have two different answers to this. I think I agree that having strong advanced, cohorted classes in all middle schools is better and more important in theory, if MCPS could be trusted to deliver on and keep them. But if any principal can make those classes honors for all and Central Office can snap their fingers and take them away at any time, maybe it's better to push for a bunch more magnet middle schools which are harder to get rid of once they've been launched?

If anyone would be willing to share their/their kids' race and/or info on the demographics/income levels at their home middle school when weighing in on the questions in this thread, I think that could potentially be helpful. I am curious if opinions differ based on these factors regarding whether better home school classes are more important than more magnets or vice versa.

Also could be helpful to know how gifted or high-scoring your kid is-- I imagine that a parent of a 90th percentile kid versus a 99th percentile kid might have different preferences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who taught at a non-magnet middle school here in the county I would like to see them create accelerated or challenging classes at all the middle schools. There are plenty of students at are not being challenged or are having their learning disrupted by integrated classes. I understand you can argue that those students should apply to Magnet programs but sometimes those don't work logistically for all families.

At my school there was an accelerated math class but that was pretty much the only option for kids who wanted a challenge. There were no accelerated science, history, or english classes. There was a medical based science elective but more often than not it was used as a dumping ground by counseling to make schedules work.

Was there no HIGH or are you saying you don't consider HIGH challenging?

I have no idea what HIGH stands for but there were no honors or on level differentiation in any classes other than this advanced Math course. Everyone was placed in the same classes together.

HIGH is the accelerated social studies class. In my kid's middle school, there's differentiation only for Math and social studies. Maybe all schools don't have HIGH or PP's kid didn't wasn't selected (not sure what the selection criteria are-my kid was assigned to it).

Historical Inquiry in Global Humanities. Several schools just assign all students to this social studies class in 6th and 7th, even though it was originally intended to be an "enriched" class for students identified by central office as magnet-eligible but who weren't able to get a spot.

As long as this keeps happening, we still need the magnets. If we could have actual advanced classes in every school for kids who want to do the work, I’d be happy to say goodbye to the magnets.

Yeah, I feel like there are two questions here:

1) What's the best thing to push for in theory?
2). What's the best thing to push for given the actual MCPS we have, that is least likely to be executed poorly or taken away?

It's totally possible to have two different answers to this. I think I agree that having strong advanced, cohorted classes in all middle schools is better and more important in theory, if MCPS could be trusted to deliver on and keep them. But if any principal can make those classes honors for all and Central Office can snap their fingers and take them away at any time, maybe it's better to push for a bunch more magnet middle schools which are harder to get rid of once they've been launched?

Funny thing to say in the year that MCPS announced plans to kill both the magnet middle school and magnet high school program.

Where is this announcement?

They are going to regionalize these programs and duplicate them. Nice in theory, but cohorts of highly able students are not lurking in every area of the county. See the July 24 BOE meeting for reference. Or, read the Bethesda Magazine announcement:

https://bethesdamagazine.com/2025/07/25/mcps-end-countywide-program-consortia/

How would you know that?

They can’t know it because it isn’t true.

I teach magnet and there are capable students all over the County.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why is there so much resistance to having advanced classes in middle school? Is it really that complicated scheduling-wise?

Because in MCPS honor class always becomes honor-for-all in a few years, always.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is there so much resistance to having advanced classes in middle school? Is it really that complicated scheduling-wise?

Because in MCPS honor class always becomes honor-for-all in a few years, always.

We will watch it happen on the HSxlevel over the next few years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is there so much resistance to having advanced classes in middle school? Is it really that complicated scheduling-wise?

Because in MCPS honor class always becomes honor-for-all in a few years, always.

We will watch it happen on the HSxlevel over the next few years.

It has already happened at the HS level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who taught at a non-magnet middle school here in the county I would like to see them create accelerated or challenging classes at all the middle schools. There are plenty of students at are not being challenged or are having their learning disrupted by integrated classes. I understand you can argue that those students should apply to Magnet programs but sometimes those don't work logistically for all families.

At my school there was an accelerated math class but that was pretty much the only option for kids who wanted a challenge. There were no accelerated science, history, or english classes. There was a medical based science elective but more often than not it was used as a dumping ground by counseling to make schedules work.

Was there no HIGH or are you saying you don't consider HIGH challenging?

I have no idea what HIGH stands for but there were no honors or on level differentiation in any classes other than this advanced Math course. Everyone was placed in the same classes together.

HIGH is the accelerated social studies class. In my kid's middle school, there's differentiation only for Math and social studies. Maybe all schools don't have HIGH or PP's kid didn't wasn't selected (not sure what the selection criteria are-my kid was assigned to it).

Historical Inquiry in Global Humanities. Several schools just assign all students to this social studies class in 6th and 7th, even though it was originally intended to be an "enriched" class for students identified by central office as magnet-eligible but who weren't able to get a spot.

As long as this keeps happening, we still need the magnets. If we could have actual advanced classes in every school for kids who want to do the work, I’d be happy to say goodbye to the magnets.

Yeah, I feel like there are two questions here:

1) What's the best thing to push for in theory?
2). What's the best thing to push for given the actual MCPS we have, that is least likely to be executed poorly or taken away?

It's totally possible to have two different answers to this. I think I agree that having strong advanced, cohorted classes in all middle schools is better and more important in theory, if MCPS could be trusted to deliver on and keep them. But if any principal can make those classes honors for all and Central Office can snap their fingers and take them away at any time, maybe it's better to push for a bunch more magnet middle schools which are harder to get rid of once they've been launched?

Funny thing to say in the year that MCPS announced plans to kill both the magnet middle school and magnet high school program.

Where is this announcement?

They are going to regionalize these programs and duplicate them. Nice in theory, but cohorts of highly able students are not lurking in every area of the county. See the July 24 BOE meeting for reference. Or, read the Bethesda Magazine announcement:

https://bethesdamagazine.com/2025/07/25/mcps-end-countywide-program-consortia/

How would you know that?

They can’t know it because it isn’t true.

I teach magnet and there are capable students all over the County.

Thank you magnet teacher. What is the size of the cohort of highly capable students, per your estimation? Are there enough teachers capable of teaching magnet courses all over the county?

[Anonymous]

The accessibility by geographic area needs to change. Right now, just a few clusters grab most of the magnet slots, and it's the ones closest to the host schools.

https://go.boarddocs.com/mabe/mcpsmd/Board.nsf/files/DJVQ56678E2B/$file/Attachment%20D%20SY2025%20Student%20Enrollment%20Countywide%20Programs%20250724.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The accessibility by geographic area needs to change. Right now, just a few clusters grab most of the magnet slots, and it's the ones closest to the host schools.

https://go.boarddocs.com/mabe/mcpsmd/Board.nsf/files/DJVQ56678E2B/$file/Attachment%20D%20SY2025%20Student%20Enrollment%20Countywide%20Programs%20250724.pdf

Not so, e.g., Wooton HS and the Blair magnet program. Also, keep in mind that the school district has released just ONE year of data. This selectivity indicates that over time, there may be a different story to tell with the data, if more of it is provided.

Make no mistake, the school district has already decided what it's doing. They don't care about community input.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The accessibility by geographic area needs to change. Right now, just a few clusters grab most of the magnet slots, and it's the ones closest to the host schools.

https://go.boarddocs.com/mabe/mcpsmd/Board.nsf/files/DJVQ56678E2B/$file/Attachment%20D%20SY2025%20Student%20Enrollment%20Countywide%20Programs%20250724.pdf

You linked to high school magnet data, but the post is about middle school, so I'm not sure what your point is?