What needs to change for MS for gifted/advanced students?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who taught at a non-magnet middle school here in the county I would like to see them create accelerated or challenging classes at all the middle schools. There are plenty of students at are not being challenged or are having their learning disrupted by integrated classes. I understand you can argue that those students should apply to Magnet programs but sometimes those don't work logistically for all families.

At my school there was an accelerated math class but that was pretty much the only option for kids who wanted a challenge. There were no accelerated science, history, or english classes. There was a medical based science elective but more often than not it was used as a dumping ground by counseling to make schedules work.

Was there no HIGH or are you saying you don't consider HIGH challenging?

I have no idea what HIGH stands for but there were no honors or on level differentiation in any classes other than this advanced Math course. Everyone was placed in the same classes together.

HIGH is the accelerated social studies class. In my kid's middle school, there's differentiation only for Math and social studies. Maybe all schools don't have HIGH or PP's kid didn't wasn't selected (not sure what the selection criteria are-my kid was assigned to it).

Historical Inquiry in Global Humanities. Several schools just assign all students to this social studies class in 6th and 7th, even though it was originally intended to be an "enriched" class for students identified by central office as magnet-eligible but who weren't able to get a spot.

As long as this keeps happening, we still need the magnets. If we could have actual advanced classes in every school for kids who want to do the work, I’d be happy to say goodbye to the magnets.

Yeah, I feel like there are two questions here:

1) What's the best thing to push for in theory?
2). What's the best thing to push for given the actual MCPS we have, that is least likely to be executed poorly or taken away?

It's totally possible to have two different answers to this. I think I agree that having strong advanced, cohorted classes in all middle schools is better and more important in theory, if MCPS could be trusted to deliver on and keep them. But if any principal can make those classes honors for all and Central Office can snap their fingers and take them away at any time, maybe it's better to push for a bunch more magnet middle schools which are harder to get rid of once they've been launched?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’d like to see kids staying in their home school. There shoujd be classes at all the schools for all the kids varying levels.

It wouldn’t be possible to staff. I watched one of the MS magnets struggle to staff appropriately for the past three years.

[Anonymous]

They need true advanced classes in English and science in all MS — leveled and no advanced/honors for all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who taught at a non-magnet middle school here in the county I would like to see them create accelerated or challenging classes at all the middle schools. There are plenty of students at are not being challenged or are having their learning disrupted by integrated classes. I understand you can argue that those students should apply to Magnet programs but sometimes those don't work logistically for all families.

At my school there was an accelerated math class but that was pretty much the only option for kids who wanted a challenge. There were no accelerated science, history, or english classes. There was a medical based science elective but more often than not it was used as a dumping ground by counseling to make schedules work.

Was there no HIGH or are you saying you don't consider HIGH challenging?

I have no idea what HIGH stands for but there were no honors or on level differentiation in any classes other than this advanced Math course. Everyone was placed in the same classes together.

HIGH is the accelerated social studies class. In my kid's middle school, there's differentiation only for Math and social studies. Maybe all schools don't have HIGH or PP's kid didn't wasn't selected (not sure what the selection criteria are-my kid was assigned to it).

Historical Inquiry in Global Humanities. Several schools just assign all students to this social studies class in 6th and 7th, even though it was originally intended to be an "enriched" class for students identified by central office as magnet-eligible but who weren't able to get a spot.

As long as this keeps happening, we still need the magnets. If we could have actual advanced classes in every school for kids who want to do the work, I’d be happy to say goodbye to the magnets.

Yeah, I feel like there are two questions here:

1) What's the best thing to push for in theory?
2). What's the best thing to push for given the actual MCPS we have, that is least likely to be executed poorly or taken away?

It's totally possible to have two different answers to this. I think I agree that having strong advanced, cohorted classes in all middle schools is better and more important in theory, if MCPS could be trusted to deliver on and keep them. But if any principal can make those classes honors for all and Central Office can snap their fingers and take them away at any time, maybe it's better to push for a bunch more magnet middle schools which are harder to get rid of once they've been launched?

+agree completely

[Anonymous]

Whatever they propose, it will end up one for all and all for one. Those who can afford to do so, will leave. That is what MCPS counts on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Whatever they propose, it will end up one for all and all for one. Those who can afford to do so, will leave. That is what MCPS counts on.

Or supplement. That’s what we do. Literacy enrichment tutor and RSM. Cheaper than private, but no way will we rely on MCPS for rigor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d like to see kids staying in their home school. There shoujd be classes at all the schools for all the kids varying levels.

It wouldn’t be possible to staff. I watched one of the MS magnets struggle to staff appropriately for the past three years.

No, this isn’t like specialized HS STEM classes. The exact same 6th, 7th, and 8th grade teachers are completely capable of having different classes where they make the students do more reading and writing.

And I think students at that age know how to self-select for the class that makes the most sense for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think more advanced coursework at every school is a lot more important than magnets in middle school. In fact, I'm not even sure I really like the idea of magnet middle schools.

This. Commit having acceleration at every school in math and English/lit at least and realize and be ok that at some schools it's 3 classes advanced math and at some it's 10 kids it's ok. Those 10 kids need to be served too. And yes a a lot of it break down by racial/SES lines. Provide clear opportunity to apply to all kids. Don't know how to manage test prep ridiculousness at some schools. MCPS can't fix all the learning gap issues at the expense of the top quartile of kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think more advanced coursework at every school is a lot more important than magnets in middle school. In fact, I'm not even sure I really like the idea of magnet middle schools.

Are you a supporter of magnet high schools? If so, I'm curious why you think they are more important in high school than middle school? Not a gotcha, genuinely curious-- and I'm interested in hearing from everyone on this, not just PP!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think more advanced coursework at every school is a lot more important than magnets in middle school. In fact, I'm not even sure I really like the idea of magnet middle schools.

Are you a supporter of magnet high schools? If so, I'm curious why you think they are more important in high school than middle school? Not a gotcha, genuinely curious-- and I'm interested in hearing from everyone on this, not just PP!

Yes, I think magnet HS’s make sense. As to why HS but not middle, I haven’t thought this out a lot but:
- It just seems like there’s more of a value-add to gathering the best and the brightest/those with a particular interest in one spot with older kids
- Transportation and social life: Obviously zero middle schoolers drive, so the logistics with after-school activities and social life fall on the parents. I can see this leading to disparities in which families are able to do a magnet MS even among those accepted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think more advanced coursework at every school is a lot more important than magnets in middle school. In fact, I'm not even sure I really like the idea of magnet middle schools.

Are you a supporter of magnet high schools? If so, I'm curious why you think they are more important in high school than middle school? Not a gotcha, genuinely curious-- and I'm interested in hearing from everyone on this, not just PP!

Not PP but wanted to respond to your question. I think there are multiple reasons why HS magnet is more important than MS magnet. HS is where kids learn study habits that will carry them thru college (and beyond). You know, how to study, how to manage time, how to prepare/take tests. After 4 years of HS magnet programs, most of the kids are more than ready for college and post-college education. It is not easy - rigor, intensity, lack of sleep, bus ride, never ending "to-do"...etc. but your kid will come out of the program as a different student.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Improving the selection criteria to select students for these programs so that they actually use measures of cognitive ability.

As a parent of a August birthday kid (youngest kid in their class) with a 99% COGAT, 93% MAP-R and 98% MAP-M who somehow wasn't in the lottery pool for CES, I'm frustrated that selection criteria aren't age normed (the kids I know in her school who were selected for CES all have fall birthdays and clearly being months early helps with reading ability) and only are based on a single instance of MAP-R.
If I had known that everything centered around the MAP-R, I would have enrolled them in a prep course like other parents did to game the system.

They should use COGAT like they used to since it’s age normed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think more advanced coursework at every school is a lot more important than magnets in middle school. In fact, I'm not even sure I really like the idea of magnet middle schools.

Are you a supporter of magnet high schools? If so, I'm curious why you think they are more important in high school than middle school? Not a gotcha, genuinely curious-- and I'm interested in hearing from everyone on this, not just PP!

Not PP but wanted to respond to your question. I think there are multiple reasons why HS magnet is more important than MS magnet. HS is where kids learn study habits that will carry them thru college (and beyond). You know, how to study, how to manage time, how to prepare/take tests. After 4 years of HS magnet programs, most of the kids are more than ready for college and post-college education. It is not easy - rigor, intensity, lack of sleep, bus ride, never ending "to-do"...etc. but your kid will come out of the program as a different student.

Having a kid go through the magnets I agree that HS is more important. Also if be in favor or local advanced classes and getting rid of bus in magnets for ES and MS. Selection for advanced classes need to be IQ test based and not based on mommy asking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think more advanced coursework at every school is a lot more important than magnets in middle school. In fact, I'm not even sure I really like the idea of magnet middle schools.

Are you a supporter of magnet high schools? If so, I'm curious why you think they are more important in high school than middle school? Not a gotcha, genuinely curious-- and I'm interested in hearing from everyone on this, not just PP!

Not PP but wanted to respond to your question. I think there are multiple reasons why HS magnet is more important than MS magnet. HS is where kids learn study habits that will carry them thru college (and beyond). You know, how to study, how to manage time, how to prepare/take tests. After 4 years of HS magnet programs, most of the kids are more than ready for college and post-college education. It is not easy - rigor, intensity, lack of sleep, bus ride, never ending "to-do"...etc. but your kid will come out of the program as a different student.

Having a kid go through the magnets I agree that HS is more important. Also if be in favor or local advanced classes and getting rid of bus in magnets for ES and MS. Selection for advanced classes need to be IQ test based and not based on mommy asking.

I think it might make sense to keep magnet access for kids who truly have no peer cohort at their home school-- either because they are very highly/profoundly gifted, or because they are mildly-to-moderately gifted but there aren't enough other kids at their home school who are (I know this definitely happens at the ES level, not sure if there are also middle schools without big enough peer cohorts for advanced classes.).

[Anonymous]

I am with you. My DS with way higher than 99% cut off both in MAP-R and MAP-M, but not placed in CES lottery pool. Fortunately our home school has ELC so we did not plan to send to CES (far away) either.

Anonymous wrote:Improving the selection criteria to select students for these programs so that they actually use measures of cognitive ability.

As a parent of a August birthday kid (youngest kid in their class) with a 99% COGAT, 93% MAP-R and 98% MAP-M who somehow wasn't in the lottery pool for CES, I'm frustrated that selection criteria aren't age normed (the kids I know in her school who were selected for CES all have fall birthdays and clearly being months early helps with reading ability) and only are based on a single instance of MAP-R.
If I had known that everything centered around the MAP-R, I would have enrolled them in a prep course like other parents did to game the system.