Elder attorney told family that memory care is a scam

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Memory care is like prison. You should try to avoid putting your parent into it.

I see we found the senior citizen in our midst. Try again.
Memory care is a prison for the caretaker/ person providing it.

A decent Memory care facility is a safe, low stress place for a person experiencing the later stages of dementia.
I recommend smaller residential homes with a max of 8 patients and a regular rotation of caregivers.

^Smaller homes? You must be joking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
well, what is this attorney offering as an alternative for people with dementia? I mean, my mother is bored in memory care, but she is well taken care of and safe. The alternatives are her living with us and me quitting my job (because she cannot be alone and cannot just chill even for 30 minutes,) AND getting care or f/t care at home which is more expensive. She was kicked out of assisted living for dementia behaviors. I suppose I could just put her in an apartment and allow her to die through starvation; poisoning; getting lost, burning down the apartment....? This is someone who is unable to use a phone, much less care for herself.


The alternative proposed was a traditional Medicaid funded nursing home, but at least the one in the town nearby has said they can’t provide safe care due to mobility/roaming. They don’t have the safety measures memory facilities have, nor the staff to deal with the level of challenges parent has.j

As far as I know, nursing homes require medical needs and will not take someone who is at a certain level of dementia because they are liable if something goes wrong. Four need to use Medicaid, find a memory care place that will eventually take Medicaid.

For everyone saying that you will kill yourself when this happens, you still need to figure out long term care. One of the most common signs in early dementia (when you could still have the capacity to make a decision to end your life) is denial. Secondly, having been through this with my mother, who always insisted that I should just shoot her etc, the person she is now is not who she was, but she still is a person. She recognizes me, enjoys an ice cream sundae, occasionally dances to the oldies with her walker, snuggles with my dog when we come visit. She is also mostly incontinent, unable to remember her personal history, use a phone or focus on anything like reading, despite being someone who is highly educated and taught college history, spoke Italian French Spanish and read Latin and Greek. She is not who she was but she is a person who still feels things. I know when we get to the point I where she can’t speak or walk ill wish her suffering to end but even if she hadn’t capacity to make a decision about ending her life now, I don’t think she would.

Finally, memory care can be a horrible warehouse but it doesn’t have to be. We went from disappointing corporate chain that was part of larger facility to a small intimate non profit where all they do is memory care and my moms baseline has actually improved—she is calmer, more content and well cared for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP we had a similar experience with my parents' financial planner. Guy spent 30 minutes telling my mom that memory care was a scam and unreliable but then he didn't even offer an alternate suggestion. Just told her to talk to an elder care attorney to figure out Medicaid eligibility. And I'd bet a million dollars that he gets kick backs from the attorney for references.

They're all a bunch of slime balls C who don't understand the reality of elder care. It's all just numbers on a screen. When I previously brought up that my parents don't have enough money to cover extensive memory care or skilled nursing (my grandma's side of the family all had dementia), he brushed it off saying "most people don't live long once they reach that stage." Which may be true, but hoping to die quickly is not what I want them to base their financial decisions on.

It’s not the lawyer’s fault that you asked for advice outside his scope and got referred to a more specialized practitioner. The rules on referral fees typically require them to track actual value added. I know a lot of attorneys and I don’t know anybody who pays just for referral.

I think the marketing term “memory care” is one of the most cynical things ever devised by the caretaking sales industry. Nobody is getting any “care” for their “memory.” They’re getting a more specialized form of custodial care adapted to the unique challenges of persons with dementia. I don’t think the idea of specialized, tailored care is a scam, but I’m not sure that a “memory care” unit is the only place to find it.

If you’re concerned about needing help with care costs, the best person to consult is an experienced attorney affiliated with the National Academy of Elder Law Attorneys. Medicaid rules are complex, subject to change, and present catastrophic traps for the unwary. This is not a place for crowdsourcing, amateur night or non-expert advice.

OP here attorney we consulted was on this list

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP we had a similar experience with my parents' financial planner. Guy spent 30 minutes telling my mom that memory care was a scam and unreliable but then he didn't even offer an alternate suggestion. Just told her to talk to an elder care attorney to figure out Medicaid eligibility. And I'd bet a million dollars that he gets kick backs from the attorney for references.

They're all a bunch of slime balls C who don't understand the reality of elder care. It's all just numbers on a screen. When I previously brought up that my parents don't have enough money to cover extensive memory care or skilled nursing (my grandma's side of the family all had dementia), he brushed it off saying "most people don't live long once they reach that stage." Which may be true, but hoping to die quickly is not what I want them to base their financial decisions on.

It’s not the lawyer’s fault that you asked for advice outside his scope and got referred to a more specialized practitioner. The rules on referral fees typically require them to track actual value added. I know a lot of attorneys and I don’t know anybody who pays just for referral.

I think the marketing term “memory care” is one of the most cynical things ever devised by the caretaking sales industry. Nobody is getting any “care” for their “memory.” They’re getting a more specialized form of custodial care adapted to the unique challenges of persons with dementia. I don’t think the idea of specialized, tailored care is a scam, but I’m not sure that a “memory care” unit is the only place to find it.

If you’re concerned about needing help with care costs, the best person to consult is an experienced attorney affiliated with the National Academy of Elder Law Attorneys. Medicaid rules are complex, subject to change, and present catastrophic traps for the unwary. This is not a place for crowdsourcing, amateur night or non-expert advice.

OP here attorney we consulted was on this list

I thought you consulted with a “financial planner” and got referred to an attorney.

Was it the attorney you felt “brushed off” by? If so, why?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP we had a similar experience with my parents' financial planner. Guy spent 30 minutes telling my mom that memory care was a scam and unreliable but then he didn't even offer an alternate suggestion. Just told her to talk to an elder care attorney to figure out Medicaid eligibility. And I'd bet a million dollars that he gets kick backs from the attorney for references.

They're all a bunch of slime balls C who don't understand the reality of elder care. It's all just numbers on a screen. When I previously brought up that my parents don't have enough money to cover extensive memory care or skilled nursing (my grandma's side of the family all had dementia), he brushed it off saying "most people don't live long once they reach that stage." Which may be true, but hoping to die quickly is not what I want them to base their financial decisions on.

It’s not the lawyer’s fault that you asked for advice outside his scope and got referred to a more specialized practitioner. The rules on referral fees typically require them to track actual value added. I know a lot of attorneys and I don’t know anybody who pays just for referral.

I think the marketing term “memory care” is one of the most cynical things ever devised by the caretaking sales industry. Nobody is getting any “care” for their “memory.” They’re getting a more specialized form of custodial care adapted to the unique challenges of persons with dementia. I don’t think the idea of specialized, tailored care is a scam, but I’m not sure that a “memory care” unit is the only place to find it.

If you’re concerned about needing help with care costs, the best person to consult is an experienced attorney affiliated with the National Academy of Elder Law Attorneys. Medicaid rules are complex, subject to change, and present catastrophic traps for the unwary. This is not a place for crowdsourcing, amateur night or non-expert advice.

OP here attorney we consulted was on this list

I thought you consulted with a “financial planner” and got referred to an attorney.

Was it the attorney you felt “brushed off” by? If so, why?

Think you’re responding to a PP. OP and we visited elder care attorney who told us memory care was a scam and we could get on Medicaid now. That attorney was on the list a PP posted.

[Anonymous]

You should report this attorney to his licensing board.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
well, what is this attorney offering as an alternative for people with dementia? I mean, my mother is bored in memory care, but she is well taken care of and safe. The alternatives are her living with us and me quitting my job (because she cannot be alone and cannot just chill even for 30 minutes,) AND getting care or f/t care at home which is more expensive. She was kicked out of assisted living for dementia behaviors. I suppose I could just put her in an apartment and allow her to die through starvation; poisoning; getting lost, burning down the apartment....? This is someone who is unable to use a phone, much less care for herself.


The alternative proposed was a traditional Medicaid funded nursing home, but at least the one in the town nearby has said they can’t provide safe care due to mobility/roaming. They don’t have the safety measures memory facilities have, nor the staff to deal with the level of challenges parent has.j

As far as I know, nursing homes require medical needs and will not take someone who is at a certain level of dementia because they are liable if something goes wrong. Four need to use Medicaid, find a memory care place that will eventually take Medicaid.

For everyone saying that you will kill yourself when this happens, you still need to figure out long term care. One of the most common signs in early dementia (when you could still have the capacity to make a decision to end your life) is denial. Secondly, having been through this with my mother, who always insisted that I should just shoot her etc, the person she is now is not who she was, but she still is a person. She recognizes me, enjoys an ice cream sundae, occasionally dances to the oldies with her walker, snuggles with my dog when we come visit. She is also mostly incontinent, unable to remember her personal history, use a phone or focus on anything like reading, despite being someone who is highly educated and taught college history, spoke Italian French Spanish and read Latin and Greek. She is not who she was but she is a person who still feels things. I know when we get to the point I where she can’t speak or walk ill wish her suffering to end but even if she hadn’t capacity to make a decision about ending her life now, I don’t think she would.

Finally, memory care can be a horrible warehouse but it doesn’t have to be. We went from disappointing corporate chain that was part of larger facility to a small intimate non profit where all they do is memory care and my moms baseline has actually improved—she is calmer, more content and well cared for.

Where did you find a non profit that does this? My father has no savings and is in earlier stages of dementia. Some days are bad and he wonders off from our home. He lives with us and has started being pretty mean to my autistic son so we want to get him out. I am scared of taking on this financial obligation, so would love to find a non profit.

[Anonymous]

In Switzerland they say the people who choose medical aid in dying for Alzheimers all fit a pattern. Highly educated and were very adamant for many years that they would not live with dementia. They don't go into denial but are self aware. If you screen yourself twice a year like I do you don't say gee, I just scored lower but I am going to ignore that. You catch the very early slippage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
well, what is this attorney offering as an alternative for people with dementia? I mean, my mother is bored in memory care, but she is well taken care of and safe. The alternatives are her living with us and me quitting my job (because she cannot be alone and cannot just chill even for 30 minutes,) AND getting care or f/t care at home which is more expensive. She was kicked out of assisted living for dementia behaviors. I suppose I could just put her in an apartment and allow her to die through starvation; poisoning; getting lost, burning down the apartment....? This is someone who is unable to use a phone, much less care for herself.


The alternative proposed was a traditional Medicaid funded nursing home, but at least the one in the town nearby has said they can’t provide safe care due to mobility/roaming. They don’t have the safety measures memory facilities have, nor the staff to deal with the level of challenges parent has.j

As far as I know, nursing homes require medical needs and will not take someone who is at a certain level of dementia because they are liable if something goes wrong. Four need to use Medicaid, find a memory care place that will eventually take Medicaid.

For everyone saying that you will kill yourself when this happens, you still need to figure out long term care. One of the most common signs in early dementia (when you could still have the capacity to make a decision to end your life) is denial. Secondly, having been through this with my mother, who always insisted that I should just shoot her etc, the person she is now is not who she was, but she still is a person. She recognizes me, enjoys an ice cream sundae, occasionally dances to the oldies with her walker, snuggles with my dog when we come visit. She is also mostly incontinent, unable to remember her personal history, use a phone or focus on anything like reading, despite being someone who is highly educated and taught college history, spoke Italian French Spanish and read Latin and Greek. She is not who she was but she is a person who still feels things. I know when we get to the point I where she can’t speak or walk ill wish her suffering to end but even if she hadn’t capacity to make a decision about ending her life now, I don’t think she would.

Finally, memory care can be a horrible warehouse but it doesn’t have to be. We went from disappointing corporate chain that was part of larger facility to a small intimate non profit where all they do is memory care and my moms baseline has actually improved—she is calmer, more content and well cared for.

Where did you find a non profit that does this? My father has no savings and is in earlier stages of dementia. Some days are bad and he wonders off from our home. He lives with us and has started being pretty mean to my autistic son so we want to get him out. I am scared of taking on this financial obligation, so would love to find a non profit.

Look for religious organizations with rich benefactors. FWIW the non profit near my parents still required 2 years of private pay before they would accept Medicaid, so it's not like they pay for all care out of the goodness of their hearts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Memory care is like prison. You should try to avoid putting your parent into it.

Perhaps at govt funded facilities. But if you choose wisely, they can be good facilities. Yes, it might feel like "prison" because residents are locked in for their safety. That's a good thing. A great one will have plenty of outdoor space to utilize in good weather and plenty of indoor space outside the resident's rooms for them to gather with other residents and participate in activities. That helps keep the brain from deteriorating faster.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:well, what is this attorney offering as an alternative for people with dementia? I mean, my mother is bored in memory care, but she is well taken care of and safe. The alternatives are her living with us and me quitting my job (because she cannot be alone and cannot just chill even for 30 minutes,) AND getting care or f/t care at home which is more expensive. She was kicked out of assisted living for dementia behaviors. I suppose I could just put her in an apartment and allow her to die through starvation; poisoning; getting lost, burning down the apartment....? This is someone who is unable to use a phone, much less care for herself.

Assisted living isn't enough care for dementia.

Exactly! Assisted living residents typically do not require "being locked in for their safety". They often only have physical limitations

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Memory care is like prison. You should try to avoid putting your parent into it.

I see we found the senior citizen in our midst. Try again.
Memory care is a prison for the caretaker/ person providing it.

A decent Memory care facility is a safe, low stress place for a person experiencing the later stages of dementia.
I recommend smaller residential homes with a max of 8 patients and a regular rotation of caregivers.

Those are tricky because they can’t after accommodate residents who wander; they are not “locked units” and they don’t have the staffing to manage someone who is mobile and constantly on the go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Memory care is like prison. You should try to avoid putting your parent into it.

Perhaps at govt funded facilities. But if you choose wisely, they can be good facilities. Yes, it might feel like "prison" because residents are locked in for their safety. That's a good thing. A great one will have plenty of outdoor space to utilize in good weather and plenty of indoor space outside the resident's rooms for them to gather with other residents and participate in activities. That helps keep the brain from deteriorating faster.

+1 I worked in one like this. There were many activities and the residents were safe and had their routines.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP we had a similar experience with my parents' financial planner. Guy spent 30 minutes telling my mom that memory care was a scam and unreliable but then he didn't even offer an alternate suggestion. Just told her to talk to an elder care attorney to figure out Medicaid eligibility. And I'd bet a million dollars that he gets kick backs from the attorney for references.

They're all a bunch of slime balls who don't understand the reality of elder care. It's all just numbers on a screen. When I previously brought up that my parents don't have enough money to cover extensive memory care or skilled nursing (my grandma's side of the family all had dementia), he brushed it off saying "most people don't live long once they reach that stage." Which may be true, but hoping to die quickly is not what I want them to base their financial decisions on.

It’s not the lawyer’s fault that you asked for advice outside his scope and got referred to a more specialized practitioner. The rules on referral fees typically require them to track actual value added. I know a lot of attorneys and I don’t know anybody who pays just for referral.

I think the marketing term “memory care” is one of the most cynical things ever devised by the caretaking sales industry. Nobody is getting any “care” for their “memory.” They’re getting a more specialized form of custodial care adapted to the unique challenges of persons with dementia. I don’t think the idea of specialized, tailored care is a scam, but I’m not sure that a “memory care” unit is the only place to find it.

If you’re concerned about needing help with care costs, the best person to consult is an experienced attorney affiliated with the National Academy of Elder Law Attorneys. Medicaid rules are complex, subject to change, and present catastrophic traps for the unwary. This is not a place for crowdsourcing, amateur night or non-expert advice.

I don’t understand your beef with the term “memory care.” You actually described what it is perfectly, and your description is not at odds with the term. None of these facilities claim to improve memory; they just provide care for memory-impaired people. And yes, memory care is the best place for people with dementia who need constant supervision. Perhaps not if they are bed-bound, but if they are mobile and otherwise healthy, they must have a locked unit.

[Anonymous]

And Medicaid does not pay for memory care if it’s part of an Assisted Living; it only pays for memory care if it is part of a nursing home’s long-term care unit, and there is strict criteria for a person to be eligible for that level of care (like daily nursing needs, inability to manage activities of daily living, etc).