60% of girls say they want college, only 46% of boys

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Discussed before
Boys = minority group in college
why there's a group of magas steering the country into what we have.
As Laura Bush (yes a first lady at the beginning on the 21st century) said something along the lines of we are focusing on the young girls which we should, but we should also be concerned about the young boys. Well, she wasn't wrong to have worried about them.
#getyourboytoattendcollegeANDgraduate

100%%%%. I said that all of the time. Laura Bush was rightly focusing on boys falling behind—especially her reading initiatives and the school systems designed to the way girls learn/develop. And, Laura has only daughters, btw. We had take your daughters to work (changed eventually to child), girls on the run, girls in stem, as nauseum

I’m a female PhD (in my 50s) and I played competitive college sports, etc. I had no problem in that realm.

We started just medicating every boy that couldn’t sit still in kindergarten and first grade. Labeling them all toxic..until what we did eventually came to fruition in MAGA-types

I voted Harris—but I am not dense enough to not notice why Trump was able to win

I happen to have a girl with ADHD and much of what you say is true for her. Our schools are not set up for the way many people (including presumably a lot more boys) learn. For us, the answer is private school.

I’m not sure how things like Women in STEM and Girls in the Run hurt boys. Most of the traditional STEM clubs are male dominated. It almost drove my daughter out of STEM, but a women’s college saved her and gave her the space to explore those interests without being dominated and condescended to by guys.

I think the point the pp was making is that investment in our girls should not be at the detriment of our boys — which for the past several years, maybe the past decade, it has been exactly that. I’m a girl mom and a feminist that can acknowledge the fact that if our highly educated empowered women have no one of equal merit to partner up with we are in trouble as a society

Yes- exactly what I was trying to express. That was me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having a boy really opened my eyes to this issue. My well behaved, introvert, academically inclined DS is completing college a semester early with nearly perfect gpa, and even he ran into the bias against boys in the educational system. He had some wonderful teachers through the years, but he had some that clearly just didn’t like boys. I had friends with boys who were naturally rowdier who really struggled with it.

It has nothing to do with how they do on their academic assignments, but teachers who expect boys to act like girls and penalize them when they don’t and then wonder why they don’t like school. My son has had a great academic career, but I regret not sending him to an all boys school through at least middle school.

As the parent of another well-behaved, introverted, and academically inclined boy, this is very interesting to me. Mine is a HS senior, and it does seem to me that throughout his educational journey thus far, his teachers have absolutely loved that he “acts like a girl” yet also has an outlier IQ that is typically more prevalent among boys. Best of both worlds from a teacher’s perspective, I suppose.

You two need to take this conversation elsewhere. Not sure what an "outlier IQ" is. Mine son's last neuropsych put him at 138--with super low processing speed. But treated like absolute trash throughout his childhood because he did not act like a girl. He is extremely scarred by it and did not thrive in college. Hoping to not fail any classes in his last semester at a top 25 university, jobless and ready to be done with school forever.

DP. Sorry, but if your kid was really treated like “absolute trash” throughout out his education by one teacher after another, he must have had considerable behavioral issues. Teachers can only handle so much.

Well, we were told by one teacher that she was frustrated that he seemed to zone out and that the day before, he got up in class to sharpen his pencil while another child was speaking. He was not rude, violent, chaotic, or misbehaved. He has ADHD and was an introvert who wasn't able to show how much smarter he was than every other kid in the class. He was sent to the "red line" in kindergarten time and time again because the teacher said he was fidgeting too much. That's when we had the first neuropsych (his Pre-k teacher told us to have him evaluated because he had "too much imagination"). The psychologist testing him spent a day in his kindergarten class and confirmed he behaved exactly as a 5-year-old boy should in kindergarten and that his teacher had the wrong expectations of him. She said he acted in line with most other boys in the class--except for the few who were clearly on stimulants and sitting like zombies. So keep assuming my kid was awful. He wasn't. He just wasn't a girl and wasn't drugged up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So tired of boy mom threads blaming girls for everything.

+1 for thousands of years boys turned into men who ruled the world, and now that girls are able to go to college and get a good paying job, all of a sudden boys are falling behind? What is up with that? Boys are too weak? Boys are to delicate? I don't get it.

-mom of college boy and HS girl

I'm older, and grew up in a conservative culture where they did not encourage girls to go to college. I pushed myself and out-succeeded my brother, even as my parents put more energy on his college than mine. My mother would always say that my brother just didn't have the self motivation so he needed to be pushed more. My response to that was, "He's not dumb, and if he lacks any motivation, it's because you the parent had low expectations of him."

It's not the systems fault. It's the parenting.

+1 I also have a big and a girl who are doing equally well in school. I can’t tell you how times I’ve heard parents admit their incredibly low expectations of their boys, though. Particularly if they also have a girl. They really don’t their boys are capable of much and moms relish the chance to do everything for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So … basically most boys need DEI to compete with girls. Otherwise the girls blow them out of the water.

Mediocre white boys and men were able to succeed despite their mediocrity for hundreds of years. As soon as the tables started to turn, they went MAGA.

No, the school system is no longer geared toward the way biology enables them to learn and develop. Instead of active learning, athletics, camaraderie, they are forced to sit for 8 straight hours being yelled at and humiliated by purple-haired women who feel like they finally have control over men. It's pathetic.

They are not mistreated by teachers. They are asked to do things they find boring. Like writing feelings journal entries in 9th grade English.

The smart kids need alternatives to book learning cramming (including girls). Like Honors Shop Class/3D Printing. Unfortunately, the tech programs/ alternative high schools seem to still be offramps that don't lead to 4 year college.

DP. My kid never had to write a feelings journal, but she had to analyze Kendrick Lamar’s Super Bowl halftime performance for AP Lang a few weeks ago. And they don’t ever have to finish a whole book at home anymore, because, you know, too boring, I guess. Totally biased towards girls, sure. [/quote

That is the most sexist view on girls. The point isn't about their interests. The point is about biology and how it tends to make boys need more active learning and girls have a greater ability to sit quietly in chairs all day. It's not really about TV content.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry, but it's not a systemic thing, it's BAD PARENTING. Parents have just assumed for so long that their boys are going to do well that they have been completely ignoring them throughout their entire childhoods, and then they become young men, and boom! Boymoms blame the system instead of themselves for not encouraging independence and providing enrichment for them. Want STEM for your boys? Find clubs for them to join, there are plenty - look at all the First Lego leagues. Want outdoorsmanship for your boys? Surprise! There's Boy Scouts (or whatever it's called now). Want your boy to do track and field? Rec leagues offer a million and five sports options every season! Art classes accept boys, all the math enrichment programs accept boys, all sort of things available to your boys, ladies, STOP IGNORNIG THEM.

+1 I'm not understanding why boy moms can't find programs for boys. I have a boy, and he took part in all sorts of STEM activities that he wanted and was in a magnet program.

DS also did Boy Scouts, aged out now, but I think it's a shame that BS allowed girls. I know why they did it (falling membership and finances due to the lawsuits), but it was the one place just for boys.

FWIW, I also have a girl who also does all kinds of activities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Discussed before
Boys = minority group in college
why there's a group of magas steering the country into what we have.
As Laura Bush (yes a first lady at the beginning on the 21st century) said something along the lines of we are focusing on the young girls which we should, but we should also be concerned about the young boys. Well, she wasn't wrong to have worried about them.
#getyourboytoattendcollegeANDgraduate

100%%%%. I said that all of the time. Laura Bush was rightly focusing on boys falling behind—especially her reading initiatives and the school systems designed to the way girls learn/develop. And, Laura has only daughters, btw. We had take your daughters to work (changed eventually to child), girls on the run, girls in stem, as nauseum

I’m a female PhD (in my 50s) and I played competitive college sports, etc. I had no problem in that realm.

We started just medicating every boy that couldn’t sit still in kindergarten and first grade. Labeling them all toxic..until what we did eventually came to fruition in MAGA-types

I voted Harris—but I am not dense enough to not notice why Trump was able to win

I happen to have a girl with ADHD and much of what you say is true for her. Our schools are not set up for the way many people (including presumably a lot more boys) learn. For us, the answer is private school.

I’m not sure how things like Women in STEM and Girls in the Run hurt boys. Most of the traditional STEM clubs are male dominated. It almost drove my daughter out of STEM, but a women’s college saved her and gave her the space to explore those interests without being dominated and condescended to by guys.

I think the point the pp was making is that investment in our girls should not be at the detriment of our boys — which for the past several years, maybe the past decade, it has been exactly that. I’m a girl mom and a feminist that can acknowledge the fact that if our highly educated empowered women have no one of equal merit to partner up with we are in trouble as a society

Yes- exactly what I was trying to express. That was me.

So, once again, it's the women who have to shoulder the responsibility of picking up after men.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So tired of boy mom threads blaming girls for everything.

+1 for thousands of years boys turned into men who ruled the world, and now that girls are able to go to college and get a good paying job, all of a sudden boys are falling behind? What is up with that? Boys are too weak? Boys are to delicate? I don't get it.

-mom of college boy and HS girl

I'm older, and grew up in a conservative culture where they did not encourage girls to go to college. I pushed myself and out-succeeded my brother, even as my parents put more energy on his college than mine. My mother would always say that my brother just didn't have the self motivation so he needed to be pushed more. My response to that was, "He's not dumb, and if he lacks any motivation, it's because you the parent had low expectations of him."

It's not the systems fault. It's the parenting.

+1 I also have a big and a girl who are doing equally well in school. I can’t tell you how times I’ve heard parents admit their incredibly low expectations of their boys, though. Particularly if they also have a girl. They really don’t their boys are capable of much and moms relish the chance to do everything for them.

I have noticed this big time. Boy moms do a lot of tasks for their sons, and overly worry and tend to them. Boys rely on their moms for help far more than girls do. There is a lack of skill building, a lack of resiliency. They know their moms are going to swoop in and help them. Girls have their sh*t together.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry, but it's not a systemic thing, it's BAD PARENTING. Parents have just assumed for so long that their boys are going to do well that they have been completely ignoring them throughout their entire childhoods, and then they become young men, and boom! Boymoms blame the system instead of themselves for not encouraging independence and providing enrichment for them. Want STEM for your boys? Find clubs for them to join, there are plenty - look at all the First Lego leagues. Want outdoorsmanship for your boys? Surprise! There's Boy Scouts (or whatever it's called now). Want your boy to do track and field? Rec leagues offer a million and five sports options every season! Art classes accept boys, all the math enrichment programs accept boys, all sort of things available to your boys, ladies, STOP IGNORNIG THEM.

You either do not have a son, or you are one of a small minority who has some kind of fall in line, do only as moms and teachers say type. I paid immense amounts of attention to my son. To the OP's point, it was actually to the detriment of my daughter two years younger than him. He required so much attention--and as a college senior limping to the finish line, still does. Our schools went so far in accommodating the learning styles of girls that boys have been left far far behind. My son is objectively (I know, we had to have him tested three times) extremely intelligent. Far more so than my daughter. But he failed at so many things in school that his self-esteem was in the basement. Now that he has matured, he recognizes clearly what happened. He doesn't blame women, fortunately, but he has so much regret that he wasn't able to better advocate for himself, rather than spending his first 18 years of life constantly berated and demeaned by teachers. My husband and I were just noticing last night that of the 6 or so boys who all grew together in our neighborhood, every single one of them has struggled to finish college. Two of them look like they won't make it. They were just so ground down going through school they have nothing left to keep going.

I have the same experience with a boy who gets so much attention from us as parents, but still struggles. He’s in college and is ahead, but at what cost? His self esteem took a hit in high school where teachers make it seem like ADHD or differences in learning for boys reflect their character. So many just write boys off as lazy. My son tries, and he’s objectively smart (99th percentile IQ, SAT, etc.), but has a hard time with rote learning and memorization. I feel like schools try to grind this type of kid down to nothingness and call them lazy. Then there’s the problem that boys have a lot of peers who are in the same boat, which normalizes underachievement.

I don’t have the same struggle with my girls, but I also see how teachers react differently to them. TBH, I’ve never had a teacher imply my daughters are lazy or not trying when they make a mistake.


It’s not a boy mom thing—schools should be set up for most (at least least 80%) of students can really learn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So tired of boy mom threads blaming girls for everything.

+1 for thousands of years boys turned into men who ruled the world, and now that girls are able to go to college and get a good paying job, all of a sudden boys are falling behind? What is up with that? Boys are too weak? Boys are to delicate? I don't get it.

-mom of college boy and HS girl

I'm older, and grew up in a conservative culture where they did not encourage girls to go to college. I pushed myself and out-succeeded my brother, even as my parents put more energy on his college than mine. My mother would always say that my brother just didn't have the self motivation so he needed to be pushed more. My response to that was, "He's not dumb, and if he lacks any motivation, it's because you the parent had low expectations of him."

It's not the systems fault. It's the parenting.

+1 I also have a big and a girl who are doing equally well in school. I can’t tell you how times I’ve heard parents admit their incredibly low expectations of their boys, though. Particularly if they also have a girl. They really don’t their boys are capable of much and moms relish the chance to do everything for them.

+1 absolutely. My parents coddled my brother. And in the end, it's the daughters who now take care of them (we're all in our 50s). They finally recognize that coddling him was not a good thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So … basically most boys need DEI to compete with girls. Otherwise the girls blow them out of the water.

Mediocre white boys and men were able to succeed despite their mediocrity for hundreds of years. As soon as the tables started to turn, they went MAGA.

No, the school system is no longer geared toward the way biology enables them to learn and develop. Instead of active learning, athletics, camaraderie, they are forced to sit for 8 straight hours being yelled at and humiliated by purple-haired women who feel like they finally have control over men. It's pathetic.

They are not mistreated by teachers. They are asked to do things they find boring. Like writing feelings journal entries in 9th grade English.

The smart kids need alternatives to book learning cramming (including girls). Like Honors Shop Class/3D Printing. Unfortunately, the tech programs/ alternative high schools seem to still be offramps that don't lead to 4 year college.

DP. My kid never had to write a feelings journal, but she had to analyze Kendrick Lamar’s Super Bowl halftime performance for AP Lang a few weeks ago. And they don’t ever have to finish a whole book at home anymore, because, you know, too boring, I guess. Totally biased towards girls, sure.

That is the most sexist view on girls. The point isn't about their interests. The point is about biology and how it tends to make boys need more active learning and girls have a greater ability to sit quietly in chairs all day. It's not really about TV content.

I was responding specifically to the idea that boys would find a feelings journal boring. That’s sexist, too.

And by 11th grade, all college bound kids need to be able to sit in chairs all day.

My kids were certainly never expected to sit in chairs all day in elementary school, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having a boy really opened my eyes to this issue. My well behaved, introvert, academically inclined DS is completing college a semester early with nearly perfect gpa, and even he ran into the bias against boys in the educational system. He had some wonderful teachers through the years, but he had some that clearly just didn’t like boys. I had friends with boys who were naturally rowdier who really struggled with it.

It has nothing to do with how they do on their academic assignments, but teachers who expect boys to act like girls and penalize them when they don’t and then wonder why they don’t like school. My son has had a great academic career, but I regret not sending him to an all boys school through at least middle school.

I don't have any sons, only daughters but I do agree there is sort if a bias against boys. Lots of teachers are female so that might be one of the reasons. Also I have no doubt that boys raised in divorced families with no fathers or a father figure has had an impact. Bottomline, we need more male role models.

How come boys used to thrive in the classroom then? Back in the baby boomer generation.

They were class presidents, leaders, valedictorians. This was in an era when teachers were female and classroom rules were very strict and prescriptive. Today, students are allowed to make noise and roam around in class. Back then they had be still and quiet.

So, how come boys were more successful academically back then?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having a boy really opened my eyes to this issue. My well behaved, introvert, academically inclined DS is completing college a semester early with nearly perfect gpa, and even he ran into the bias against boys in the educational system. He had some wonderful teachers through the years, but he had some that clearly just didn’t like boys. I had friends with boys who were naturally rowdier who really struggled with it.

It has nothing to do with how they do on their academic assignments, but teachers who expect boys to act like girls and penalize them when they don’t and then wonder why they don’t like school. My son has had a great academic career, but I regret not sending him to an all boys school through at least middle school.

As the parent of another well-behaved, introverted, and academically inclined boy, this is very interesting to me. Mine is a HS senior, and it does seem to me that throughout his educational journey thus far, his teachers have absolutely loved that he “acts like a girl” yet also has an outlier IQ that is typically more prevalent among boys. Best of both worlds from a teacher’s perspective, I suppose.

You two need to take this conversation elsewhere. Not sure what an "outlier IQ" is. Mine son's last neuropsych put him at 138--with super low processing speed. But treated like absolute trash throughout his childhood because he did not act like a girl. He is extremely scarred by it and did not thrive in college. Hoping to not fail any classes in his last semester at a top 25 university, jobless and ready to be done with school forever.

DP. Sorry, but if your kid was really treated like “absolute trash” throughout out his education by one teacher after another, he must have had considerable behavioral issues. Teachers can only handle so much.

Well, we were told by one teacher that she was frustrated that he seemed to zone out and that the day before, he got up in class to sharpen his pencil while another child was speaking. He was not rude, violent, chaotic, or misbehaved. He has ADHD and was an introvert who wasn't able to show how much smarter he was than every other kid in the class. He was sent to the "red line" in kindergarten time and time again because the teacher said he was fidgeting too much. That's when we had the first neuropsych (his Pre-k teacher told us to have him evaluated because he had "too much imagination"). The psychologist testing him spent a day in his kindergarten class and confirmed he behaved exactly as a 5-year-old boy should in kindergarten and that his teacher had the wrong expectations of him. She said he acted in line with most other boys in the class--except for the few who were clearly on stimulants and sitting like zombies. So keep assuming my kid was awful. He wasn't. He just wasn't a girl and wasn't drugged up.

Again, I’m truly sorry for your DC’s experience, but you make it sound like all boys have ADHD, which is simply untrue. Were you offered any accommodations for your son’s diagnosis? It *is* inappropriate to get up in the middle of class to sharpen a pencil while another child is speaking. It is also offensive to imply that a boy who does sit still in class must be on drugs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having a boy really opened my eyes to this issue. My well behaved, introvert, academically inclined DS is completing college a semester early with nearly perfect gpa, and even he ran into the bias against boys in the educational system. He had some wonderful teachers through the years, but he had some that clearly just didn’t like boys. I had friends with boys who were naturally rowdier who really struggled with it.

It has nothing to do with how they do on their academic assignments, but teachers who expect boys to act like girls and penalize them when they don’t and then wonder why they don’t like school. My son has had a great academic career, but I regret not sending him to an all boys school through at least middle school.

I don't have any sons, only daughters but I do agree there is sort if a bias against boys. Lots of teachers are female so that might be one of the reasons. Also I have no doubt that boys raised in divorced families with no fathers or a father figure has had an impact. Bottomline, we need more male role models.

How come boys used to thrive in the classroom then? Back in the baby boomer generation.

They were class presidents, leaders, valedictorians. This was in an era when teachers were female and classroom rules were very strict and prescriptive. Today, students are allowed to make noise and roam around in class. Back then they had be still and quiet.

So, how come boys were more successful academically back then?

Because people didn’t pathologize misbehavior. They set expectations and understood that kids screw up, instead of implying that kids who didn’t meet them were deficient. Back then, you had time and the opportunity to straighten out by mid high school. Kids could struggle early in high school and still make it to very prestigious schools. The entire system now leaves little room for mistakes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having a boy really opened my eyes to this issue. My well behaved, introvert, academically inclined DS is completing college a semester early with nearly perfect gpa, and even he ran into the bias against boys in the educational system. He had some wonderful teachers through the years, but he had some that clearly just didn’t like boys. I had friends with boys who were naturally rowdier who really struggled with it.

It has nothing to do with how they do on their academic assignments, but teachers who expect boys to act like girls and penalize them when they don’t and then wonder why they don’t like school. My son has had a great academic career, but I regret not sending him to an all boys school through at least middle school.

I don't have any sons, only daughters but I do agree there is sort if a bias against boys. Lots of teachers are female so that might be one of the reasons. Also I have no doubt that boys raised in divorced families with no fathers or a father figure has had an impact. Bottomline, we need more male role models.

I'm a single mom to a boy who is graduating from college in May. His father never had a HS diploma so he's no academic role model. He goes to college because he knows how difficult life can be without a degree. How does he know? He sees his father (we are divorced) working multiple, very physical jobs just to pay the bills. His dad has had multiple shoulder and wrist surgeries due to the repetitive motions at work. My son is working hard to NOT end up like his male role model.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having a boy really opened my eyes to this issue. My well behaved, introvert, academically inclined DS is completing college a semester early with nearly perfect gpa, and even he ran into the bias against boys in the educational system. He had some wonderful teachers through the years, but he had some that clearly just didn’t like boys. I had friends with boys who were naturally rowdier who really struggled with it.

It has nothing to do with how they do on their academic assignments, but teachers who expect boys to act like girls and penalize them when they don’t and then wonder why they don’t like school. My son has had a great academic career, but I regret not sending him to an all boys school through at least middle school.

I don't have any sons, only daughters but I do agree there is sort if a bias against boys. Lots of teachers are female so that might be one of the reasons. Also I have no doubt that boys raised in divorced families with no fathers or a father figure has had an impact. Bottomline, we need more male role models.

How come boys used to thrive in the classroom then? Back in the baby boomer generation.

They were class presidents, leaders, valedictorians. This was in an era when teachers were female and classroom rules were very strict and prescriptive. Today, students are allowed to make noise and roam around in class. Back then they had be still and quiet.

So, how come boys were more successful academically back then?

Because people didn’t pathologize misbehavior. They set expectations and understood that kids screw up, instead of implying that kids who didn’t meet them were deficient. Back then, you had time and the opportunity to straighten out by mid high school. Kids could struggle early in high school and still make it to very prestigious schools. The entire system now leaves little room for mistakes.

Also, because teachers could whack kids on the knuckles. And parents deferred to teachers on discipline—they didn’t view them as adversaries.