Cheating in high school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At my 10th grader's school, the use of AI is rampant too, but the students are getting caught and are facing consequences. The way my child explained it to me is that teachers require you to also submit your working document along with uploading your final document. The teachers then use some kind of AI detector on the working document and the final version that allows them to detect whether AI was used on any of the versions and can also detect whether any large portions were copied and pasted. Last week, several students were caught, and they all received zero points for the assignment (which will account for a significant part of their final grade), are required to serve detention/suspension, and must meet with the department chair with their parents. They also lose special privileges and the ability to participate in some programs. Any 9th grade students caught cheating lose a lot of privileges, like participation in the foreign exchange program, etc.

What if you use AI to create the first working document? Kids aren’t dumb and they run their work through the exact AI detector your school uses until it says 0% AI.

What am I missing?

[Anonymous]

We are in America, cheating to get ahead is commonplace especially when they retaliate on teachers and ignore crime of students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I tell my kids - and it’s true - that I remember who cheated in high school and college. They will always be dishonest in my mind. Would never invest with them, use them for legal work, recommend them for a job.

Same here. Have very clear memories of who in my HS class cheated and who was honest - who treated others appropriately and who did not. Reputation matters - in the long run.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At my 10th grader's school, the use of AI is rampant too, but the students are getting caught and are facing consequences. The way my child explained it to me is that teachers require you to also submit your working document along with uploading your final document. The teachers then use some kind of AI detector on the working document and the final version that allows them to detect whether AI was used on any of the versions and can also detect whether any large portions were copied and pasted. Last week, several students were caught, and they all received zero points for the assignment (which will account for a significant part of their final grade), are required to serve detention/suspension, and must meet with the department chair with their parents. They also lose special privileges and the ability to participate in some programs. Any 9th grade students caught cheating lose a lot of privileges, like participation in the foreign exchange program, etc.

What if you use AI to create the first working document? Kids aren’t dumb and they run their work through the exact AI detector your school uses until it says 0% AI.

What am I missing?

I'm not completely sure about how they are getting caught, but my child's working documents are drafted in Google docs, I believe, so as they are doing the process of getting started on a paper and physically typing, then editing, moving things around, etc, the automatically saved versions and maybe the process somehow looks different to the detector than the copying of pasting of things and having one or two rough draft versions rather than the working document of someone who is actually working through writing a paper.

[Anonymous]

Also, I don't think anyone ever gets to 0% AI, even on papers they have legitimately typed from scratch, with no help. For example, my child's paper scored like 8%, and I know they did not use any AI because I sat with them as they worked through the versions. They did have direct quotes that were cited, which they seem to think accounted for the 8%. But, that's why there is a threshold that is accepted. My child said their school's is less than 20% or so.

[Anonymous]

A fraction of the cheaters are getting caught in HS. Most get away with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At my 10th grader's school, the use of AI is rampant too, but the students are getting caught and are facing consequences. The way my child explained it to me is that teachers require you to also submit your working document along with uploading your final document. The teachers then use some kind of AI detector on the working document and the final version that allows them to detect whether AI was used on any of the versions and can also detect whether any large portions were copied and pasted. Last week, several students were caught, and they all received zero points for the assignment (which will account for a significant part of their final grade), are required to serve detention/suspension, and must meet with the department chair with their parents. They also lose special privileges and the ability to participate in some programs. Any 9th grade students caught cheating lose a lot of privileges, like participation in the foreign exchange program, etc.

What if you use AI to create the first working document? Kids aren’t dumb and they run their work through the exact AI detector your school uses until it says 0% AI.

What am I missing?

I'm not completely sure about how they are getting caught, but my child's working documents are drafted in Google docs, I believe, so as they are doing the process of getting started on a paper and physically typing, then editing, moving things around, etc, the automatically saved versions and maybe the process somehow looks different to the detector than the copying of pasting of things and having one or two rough draft versions rather than the working document of someone who is actually working through writing a paper.

So, you could use AI to write the first version, print it out and then retype it into Google Docs so that appears to be your first draft.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As my kid at a very competitive public high school explained, everyone was doing it, and the workload was so burdensome, and the pressure was so great to take many AP classes, that not to do it would’ve put them in terrible place for college admissions. So that’s the state of education in America today.

When proctors don’t proctor and allow students to cheat on AP exams it speaks volumes about their priorities. It’s all about the class ranking to help feed admissions stats.

But to clarify, it wasn’t even about the AP exams. It was regular classroom quizzes and tests, assignments and essays.

Using chatGPT or other AI on classroom quizzes, tests and assignments will lead to shitty results on proctored AP tests.

If your aim is AP scores, do the work.

[Anonymous]

The ultimate AI detector is how the kid does on the proctored exam... Sails through all the essays done at home, but can't put together an in-class handwritten response or flunks the AP? Kid gets what they deserve.

The kinds of classes where AI will get you ahead are the kinds of classes where any kind of cheating would have worked and probably aren't worth that much anyway.

I'm not dismissing the problem, I just think it's a problem that will solve itself.

Example: a coworkers kid is in college and complained that a classmate was supposed to be running a group discussion on a book—didn't read the book, got AI to develop discussion questions and answers, and smugly thinks he's going to get a good grade.

My response: if the class grade is based on the ability to generate a discussion question and answer, it's probably a pretty stupid class. And fi the teacher wants to prevent AI, require an in-class, proctored essay exam that's worth more than anything done out of class and possibly by AI. If a kid does the out of class work and learns things, they'll be fine. If the kid uses AI and learns things (possible!), they'll be fine. If the kid uses AI and doesn't learn anything, they'll flunk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The ultimate AI detector is how the kid does on the proctored exam... Sails through all the essays done at home, but can't put together an in-class handwritten response or flunks the AP? Kid gets what they deserve.

The kinds of classes where AI will get you ahead are the kinds of classes where any kind of cheating would have worked and probably aren't worth that much anyway.

I'm not dismissing the problem, I just think it's a problem that will solve itself.

Example: a coworkers kid is in college and complained that a classmate was supposed to be running a group discussion on a book—didn't read the book, got AI to develop discussion questions and answers, and smugly thinks he's going to get a good grade.

My response: if the class grade is based on the ability to generate a discussion question and answer, it's probably a pretty stupid class. And fi the teacher wants to prevent AI, require an in-class, proctored essay exam that's worth more than anything done out of class and possibly by AI. If a kid does the out of class work and learns things, they'll be fine. If the kid uses AI and learns things (possible!), they'll be fine. If the kid uses AI and doesn't learn anything, they'll flunk.

I totally agree with this. Students (and their parents on this thread) who are committed to finding a way to beat the system by using AI should use that same energy to learn and grow as a student and a human.

My kid also told me about a similar situation to this one with the book where another student didn't take class notes and used AI to create them. In the class discussion and exam prep, the AI student's information was mostly incorrect and incomplete, and they could not effectively participate and ended up failing the exam.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At my 10th grader's school, the use of AI is rampant too, but the students are getting caught and are facing consequences. The way my child explained it to me is that teachers require you to also submit your working document along with uploading your final document. The teachers then use some kind of AI detector on the working document and the final version that allows them to detect whether AI was used on any of the versions and can also detect whether any large portions were copied and pasted. Last week, several students were caught, and they all received zero points for the assignment (which will account for a significant part of their final grade), are required to serve detention/suspension, and must meet with the department chair with their parents. They also lose special privileges and the ability to participate in some programs. Any 9th grade students caught cheating lose a lot of privileges, like participation in the foreign exchange program, etc.

What if you use AI to create the first working document? Kids aren’t dumb and they run their work through the exact AI detector your school uses until it says 0% AI.

What am I missing?

I'm not completely sure about how they are getting caught, but my child's working documents are drafted in Google docs, I believe, so as they are doing the process of getting started on a paper and physically typing, then editing, moving things around, etc, the automatically saved versions and maybe the process somehow looks different to the detector than the copying of pasting of things and having one or two rough draft versions rather than the working document of someone who is actually working through writing a paper.

So, you could use AI to write the first version, print it out and then retype it into Google Docs so that appears to be your first draft.

No HS student does perfect work in their first draft. We just caught a kid that way (among other obvious clues like timing to do it, etc.). To produce highly polished text requires multiple drafts, edits, corrections, etc.

We challenged this kid to show us his working drafts since he claimed he did the work elsewhere. He didn't because he couldn't.

Next year, I expect our school to have a formal policy stating that all work will be done in the same document with the editing history available to the instructor.

It's a hard barrier for cheaters to get around.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At my 10th grader's school, the use of AI is rampant too, but the students are getting caught and are facing consequences. The way my child explained it to me is that teachers require you to also submit your working document along with uploading your final document. The teachers then use some kind of AI detector on the working document and the final version that allows them to detect whether AI was used on any of the versions and can also detect whether any large portions were copied and pasted. Last week, several students were caught, and they all received zero points for the assignment (which will account for a significant part of their final grade), are required to serve detention/suspension, and must meet with the department chair with their parents. They also lose special privileges and the ability to participate in some programs. Any 9th grade students caught cheating lose a lot of privileges, like participation in the foreign exchange program, etc.

What if you use AI to create the first working document? Kids aren’t dumb and they run their work through the exact AI detector your school uses until it says 0% AI.

What am I missing?

I'm not completely sure about how they are getting caught, but my child's working documents are drafted in Google docs, I believe, so as they are doing the process of getting started on a paper and physically typing, then editing, moving things around, etc, the automatically saved versions and maybe the process somehow looks different to the detector than the copying of pasting of things and having one or two rough draft versions rather than the working document of someone who is actually working through writing a paper.

So, you could use AI to write the first version, print it out and then retype it into Google Docs so that appears to be your first draft.

No HS student does perfect work in their first draft. We just caught a kid that way (among other obvious clues like timing to do it, etc.). To produce highly polished text requires multiple drafts, edits, corrections, etc.

We challenged this kid to show us his working drafts since he claimed he did the work elsewhere. He didn't because he couldn't.

Next year, I expect our school to have a formal policy stating that all work will be done in the same document with the editing history available to the instructor.

It's a hard barrier for cheaters to get around.

Kudos and I couldn't agree more.

[Anonymous]

Cheating is awful at my DC’s catholic school. Kids get caught and continue to cheat. You wonder why 1/2 the class now has all As.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No HS student does perfect work in their first draft. We just caught a kid that way (among other obvious clues like timing to do it, etc.). To produce highly polished text requires multiple drafts, edits, corrections, etc.

We challenged this kid to show us his working drafts since he claimed he did the work elsewhere. He didn't because he couldn't.

Next year, I expect our school to have a formal policy stating that all work will be done in the same document with the editing history available to the instructor.

It's a hard barrier for cheaters to get around.

You'd be shocked how many students can bypass this. It's really only hard for first timers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No HS student does perfect work in their first draft. We just caught a kid that way (among other obvious clues like timing to do it, etc.). To produce highly polished text requires multiple drafts, edits, corrections, etc.

We challenged this kid to show us his working drafts since he claimed he did the work elsewhere. He didn't because he couldn't.

Next year, I expect our school to have a formal policy stating that all work will be done in the same document with the editing history available to the instructor.

It's a hard barrier for cheaters to get around.

You'd be shocked how many students can bypass this. It's really only hard for first timers.

Cutting and pasting sections of text one at a time won't fool anyone. What else is there if you are importing a perfect document into what should be a series of drafts with imperfections?