30yrs ago, children could read better

[Anonymous]

We are immigrants and my kids went to public school in MoCo. Every parent from our culture that I know - taught multiplication tables to our children by the end of 2nd grade through rote memorization.

Also, at one point my eldest kid's public school had reading program called Accelerated Reader (AR). It was a widely used program in schools where students read books and then took computerized quizzes to test their comprehension. Based on their quiz scores, students earned points, and there were often rewards or recognition for hitting certain point milestones.

Anyways, those programs seem to have disappeared now. So, I guess you have to DIY an AR program for your kdis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One can thank Lucy Calkins and Fountas & Pinnell for much of that decline.

Other disasters:
1. print first then cursive, followed by replacement of cursive with typing
2. de-emphasizing wrote memorization particularly multiplication table/math facts
3. technology in the classroom
5. mainstreaming special needs kids in the classroom
6. not expelling for academic underperformance and repeat behavior problems
7. not requiring chapter books to be read from cover-to-cover
8. finally and most controversially: whining about test prep. Some would call preparing for an exam studying (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!). If it is a well-written exam there is nothing wrong with teaching to it!

Yup, add in a generation of parents and teachers saying: just let the kids PLAY!!

Um, they should be playing AND reading! Good grief.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Frightening article in the NYT today -

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/29/us/reading-skills-naep.html#commentsContainer

It’s all because of immigration. Import the third world, become the third world.

[Anonymous]

Why don’t states look at states whose students consistently test higher than students in other states.

Massachusetts is almost always number one in school performance. This most recent results show they were number one in 4th and 8th grades in both math and reading. New Hampshire was in top ten for all subjects. These two states have location in common but not much else.

Neither state offers gifted programs, the elementary schools are not put together by taking a test in kindergarten in some states or 3rd grade in others.

On the other hand the consistently dismal bottom of the barrel states of New Mexico and West Virginia test kids in kindergarten. There is a lot of poverty in these states but the students as a whole would do much better in a class with mixed ability.

Other states that don’t separate elementary schools are Rhode Island, Colorado, Indiana, Minnesota, New York, North Dakota, South Dakota, Wyoming, Vermont, Washington, Indiana. Connecticut has no programming. . California has programs for students who have IQs over 150.

The better than average states in this group of mixed classrooms are Colorado, Indiana, Minnesota, North Dakota, South Dakota, Wyoming, Washington, Connecticut, Indiana

It’s not all of them but the states who teach mixed elementary school and don’t separate students by test have better performing students overall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why don’t states look at states whose students consistently test higher than students in other states.

Massachusetts is almost always number one in school performance. This most recent results show they were number one in 4th and 8th grades in both math and reading. New Hampshire was in top ten for all subjects. These two states have location in common but not much else.

Neither state offers gifted programs, the elementary schools are not put together by taking a test in kindergarten in some states or 3rd grade in others.

On the other hand the consistently dismal bottom of the barrel states of New Mexico and West Virginia test kids in kindergarten. There is a lot of poverty in these states but the students as a whole would do much better in a class with mixed ability.

Other states that don’t separate elementary schools are Rhode Island, Colorado, Indiana, Minnesota, New York, North Dakota, South Dakota, Wyoming, Vermont, Washington, Indiana. Connecticut has no programming. . California has programs for students who have IQs over 150.

The better than average states in this group of mixed classrooms are Colorado, Indiana, Minnesota, North Dakota, South Dakota, Wyoming, Washington, Connecticut, Indiana

It’s not all of them but the states who teach mixed elementary school and don’t separate students by test have better performing students overall.

This will be flawed and incomplete data.

In reality, you really have to look at - SES, Race, mother's level of education, and if the students are being supplemented at home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why don’t states look at states whose students consistently test higher than students in other states.

Massachusetts is almost always number one in school performance. This most recent results show they were number one in 4th and 8th grades in both math and reading. New Hampshire was in top ten for all subjects. These two states have location in common but not much else.

Neither state offers gifted programs, the elementary schools are not put together by taking a test in kindergarten in some states or 3rd grade in others.

On the other hand the consistently dismal bottom of the barrel states of New Mexico and West Virginia test kids in kindergarten. There is a lot of poverty in these states but the students as a whole would do much better in a class with mixed ability.

Other states that don’t separate elementary schools are Rhode Island, Colorado, Indiana, Minnesota, New York, North Dakota, South Dakota, Wyoming, Vermont, Washington, Indiana. Connecticut has no programming. . California has programs for students who have IQs over 150.

The better than average states in this group of mixed classrooms are Colorado, Indiana, Minnesota, North Dakota, South Dakota, Wyoming, Washington, Connecticut, Indiana

It’s not all of them but the states who teach mixed elementary school and don’t separate students by test have better performing students overall.

This will be flawed and incomplete data.

In reality, you really have to look at - SES, Race, mother's level of education, and if the students are being supplemented at home.

It is incomplete data, of course they would have to do a lot more than that but it’s not all about home life either. Most states have wealthy suburbs, a lot of middle class suburbs, cities, immigrants.

A lot of posters here are saying their kids don’t read complete books, they don’t memorize multiplications, they use chrome books way too much. These issues should be looked at too. The states need to look at what’s going on in the classroom and the states that are below average should be required to find out what they need to do to at least get their students to test average.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Any idea how other countries are doing literacy wise and as readers? When I went to Seoul, Korea this year, phones were ubiquitous and even younger kids had them. Would like to know how East Asian countries and Western European kids are doing. Don’t they use screens in school?

no but asian societies never pushed reading/liberal arts etc... it was easier to compete on a global scale when you had distinctly measurable skills like hard sciene or math or business. Its pathetic how english teachers pander to kids now. My 9th grader has read 2 books - teh importance of being earnest and Things fall apart this whole school year! they've been reading things fall apart since October... its such a short book!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Computers, social media and lack of printed newspapers and easy entertainment are to blame. Even I can't read the longer more intense novels I used to as a teen in the 90s.

It's not just kids. Adults are scoring lower in reading comprehension as well. It started, for kids and adults, in 2012/2013, although the pandemic exacerbated it. (In 2012, 4G LTE was rolling out nationwide and we went from slow 3G smartphones to fast 4G smartphones. And that was it.)

Yep. This is when the smartphone became ubiquitous and it became normal for little kids to carry ipads everywhere in the same way they used to carry a coloring book to a restaurant or the doctor. It's not rocket science.

I don't understand the confusion around this ... is it Covid? What else could it be? Etc. It's none of those things. Get rid of the computers and ipads in elementary schools for goodness sakes!! Ban phones in school ... not "keep it in your backpack" but the student should not be allowed to have it at all during the school day.

Can't you see the myon books and the ST math and the Lexia is all low-quality learning? Just take a look at them. At the least, it's not even close to reading real literature or references books, working through hard math problems on paper, and being taught how to read and write directly from a knowledgeable adult and then putting pencil to paper. It's not hard to figure out you guys, parents just need to be stronger and more vocal than the greedy tech companies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any idea how other countries are doing literacy wise and as readers? When I went to Seoul, Korea this year, phones were ubiquitous and even younger kids had them. Would like to know how East Asian countries and Western European kids are doing. Don’t they use screens in school?

no but asian societies never pushed reading/liberal arts etc... it was easier to compete on a global scale when you had distinctly measurable skills like hard sciene or math or business. Its pathetic how english teachers pander to kids now. My 9th grader has read 2 books - teh importance of being earnest and Things fall apart this whole school year! they've been reading things fall apart since October... its such a short book!

Lol what the heck does this mean. Have you ever been inside an asian school - do you think most are uneducated in their native language?
Or are you simply judging based on the fact that many asian immigrants major in STEM (pls google the reason for this, it's not because asian societies undervalue language proficiency/verbal aptitude)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Frightening article in the NYT today -

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/29/us/reading-skills-naep.html#commentsContainer

It’s all because of immigration. Import the third world, become the third world.

But the immigrants are doing very well in education. All the Asian-Americans are just exceptional students who have better English scores in all the standardized tests than...White and Black Americans who have lived here for more than 2 generations. Why is that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any idea how other countries are doing literacy wise and as readers? When I went to Seoul, Korea this year, phones were ubiquitous and even younger kids had them. Would like to know how East Asian countries and Western European kids are doing. Don’t they use screens in school?

no but asian societies never pushed reading/liberal arts etc... it was easier to compete on a global scale when you had distinctly measurable skills like hard sciene or math or business. Its pathetic how english teachers pander to kids now. My 9th grader has read 2 books - teh importance of being earnest and Things fall apart this whole school year! they've been reading things fall apart since October... its such a short book!

Lol what the heck does this mean. Have you ever been inside an asian school - do you think most are uneducated in their native language?
Or are you simply judging based on the fact that many asian immigrants major in STEM (pls google the reason for this, it's not because asian societies undervalue language proficiency/verbal aptitude)

I’d be willing to get that the typical Korean or Chinese student would score higher on an English grammar exam than an American kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any idea how other countries are doing literacy wise and as readers? When I went to Seoul, Korea this year, phones were ubiquitous and even younger kids had them. Would like to know how East Asian countries and Western European kids are doing. Don’t they use screens in school?

no but asian societies never pushed reading/liberal arts etc... it was easier to compete on a global scale when you had distinctly measurable skills like hard sciene or math or business. Its pathetic how english teachers pander to kids now. My 9th grader has read 2 books - teh importance of being earnest and Things fall apart this whole school year! they've been reading things fall apart since October... its such a short book!

Lol what the heck does this mean. Have you ever been inside an asian school - do you think most are uneducated in their native language?
Or are you simply judging based on the fact that many asian immigrants major in STEM (pls google the reason for this, it's not because asian societies undervalue language proficiency/verbal aptitude)

I’d be willing to get that the typical Korean or Chinese student would score higher on an English grammar exam than an American kid.

They do. Asian kids massively out score other demographic groups.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any idea how other countries are doing literacy wise and as readers? When I went to Seoul, Korea this year, phones were ubiquitous and even younger kids had them. Would like to know how East Asian countries and Western European kids are doing. Don’t they use screens in school?

They do but not to the extent that the US does. Teachers are help up to a higher standard.

They also aggressively track kids at a young age. Few to no mixed ability classrooms. Often only the university-tracked students get included in testing. Teaching is a highly-valued profession that requires an advanced degree and is supported by aides.

The equivalent of a fourth grade teacher in Germany is not asked to manage, on her own, a classroom of 30 of kids with wildly varying skills and abilities, 30% of whom have IEPs and 504s.

The poor performing states don’t have mixed ability classes. These states also have large class sizes where high performing schools have 25 per classroom at most with an assistant in each class. Not all but most.

[Anonymous]

OK, but could kids 30 years ago also code? Program? Create videos and photos almost instantaneously? Graphic design? Audio recording? Create their own music tracks?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any idea how other countries are doing literacy wise and as readers? When I went to Seoul, Korea this year, phones were ubiquitous and even younger kids had them. Would like to know how East Asian countries and Western European kids are doing. Don’t they use screens in school?

no but asian societies never pushed reading/liberal arts etc... it was easier to compete on a global scale when you had distinctly measurable skills like hard sciene or math or business. Its pathetic how english teachers pander to kids now. My 9th grader has read 2 books - teh importance of being earnest and Things fall apart this whole school year! they've been reading things fall apart since October... its such a short book!

Lol what the heck does this mean. Have you ever been inside an asian school - do you think most are uneducated in their native language?
Or are you simply judging based on the fact that many asian immigrants major in STEM (pls google the reason for this, it's not because asian societies undervalue language proficiency/verbal aptitude)

I’d be willing to get that the typical Korean or Chinese student would score higher on an English grammar exam than an American kid.

They do. Asian kids massively out score other demographic groups.

That’s because they leave school and go straight to math classes and then home to hours of homework. They have very little social life. Some Americans don’t choose that kind of childhood for their kids Your kids can be successful adult without such a rigid joyless childhood.