30yrs ago, children could read better

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Computers, social media and lack of printed newspapers and easy entertainment are to blame. Even I can't read the longer more intense novels I used to as a teen in the 90s.

It's not just kids. Adults are scoring lower in reading comprehension as well. It started, for kids and adults, in 2012/2013, although the pandemic exacerbated it. (In 2012, 4G LTE was rolling out nationwide and we went from slow 3G smartphones to fast 4G smartphones. And that was it.)

Yep. This is when the smartphone became ubiquitous and it became normal for little kids to carry ipads everywhere in the same way they used to carry a coloring book to a restaurant or the doctor. It's not rocket science.

I don't understand the confusion around this ... is it Covid? What else could it be? Etc. It's none of those things. Get rid of the computers and ipads in elementary schools for goodness sakes!! Ban phones in school ... not "keep it in your backpack" but the student should not be allowed to have it at all during the school day.

Can't you see the myon books and the ST math and the Lexia is all low-quality learning? Just take a look at them. At the least, it's not even close to reading real literature or references books, working through hard math problems on paper, and being taught how to read and write directly from a knowledgeable adult and then putting pencil to paper. It's not hard to figure out you guys, parents just need to be stronger and more vocal than the greedy tech companies.

I’ve never heard of myon books or ST math. What books are middle school students reading? Mine reads a lot of paper books in school but they seem on the easier side.

The books are so easy. It's pathetic.

I read Shakespeare in 8th grade. Do kids who are not in advanced classes even read Shakespeare in HS?

DP. Good question. I also read Shakespeare (MacBeth) in 8th grade - so also did everyone else - and a different Shakespeare play every year there after until I graduated HS. We read Beowulf and Canterbury Tales and Milton and other classic English literature one year. Classic American literature was covered another year. And we read the whole thing, not some excerpt. 8th grade also had A Tale of Two Cities, including covering the historical context for the novel. I wonder if any school still teaches these.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Computers, social media and lack of printed newspapers and easy entertainment are to blame. Even I can't read the longer more intense novels I used to as a teen in the 90s.

It's not just kids. Adults are scoring lower in reading comprehension as well. It started, for kids and adults, in 2012/2013, although the pandemic exacerbated it. (In 2012, 4G LTE was rolling out nationwide and we went from slow 3G smartphones to fast 4G smartphones. And that was it.)

Yep. This is when the smartphone became ubiquitous and it became normal for little kids to carry ipads everywhere in the same way they used to carry a coloring book to a restaurant or the doctor. It's not rocket science.

I don't understand the confusion around this ... is it Covid? What else could it be? Etc. It's none of those things. Get rid of the computers and ipads in elementary schools for goodness sakes!! Ban phones in school ... not "keep it in your backpack" but the student should not be allowed to have it at all during the school day.

Can't you see the myon books and the ST math and the Lexia is all low-quality learning? Just take a look at them. At the least, it's not even close to reading real literature or references books, working through hard math problems on paper, and being taught how to read and write directly from a knowledgeable adult and then putting pencil to paper. It's not hard to figure out you guys, parents just need to be stronger and more vocal than the greedy tech companies.

I’ve never heard of myon books or ST math. What books are middle school students reading? Mine reads a lot of paper books in school but they seem on the easier side.

The books are so easy. It's pathetic.

I read Shakespeare in 8th grade. Do kids who are not in advanced classes even read Shakespeare in HS?

DP. Good question. I also read Shakespeare (MacBeth) in 8th grade - so also did everyone else - and a different Shakespeare play every year there after until I graduated HS. We read Beowulf and Canterbury Tales and Milton and other classic English literature one year. Classic American literature was covered another year. And we read the whole thing, not some excerpt. 8th grade also had A Tale of Two Cities, including covering the historical context for the novel. I wonder if any school still teaches these.

My kids went to Catholic schools and they both read a few of Shakespeare's plays (Merchant of Venice, Hamlet, Romeo and Juliet, Richard III) in addition to the Canterbury Tales and Beowulf. They also read books like A Farewell to Arms, Of Mice and Men, The Great Gatsby, Moby Dick, etc. They wrote 5-7 page papers on each plus research papers for their history classes. Lots of reading and writing throughout MS and HS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Computers, social media and lack of printed newspapers and easy entertainment are to blame. Even I can't read the longer more intense novels I used to as a teen in the 90s.

It's not just kids. Adults are scoring lower in reading comprehension as well. It started, for kids and adults, in 2012/2013, although the pandemic exacerbated it. (In 2012, 4G LTE was rolling out nationwide and we went from slow 3G smartphones to fast 4G smartphones. And that was it.)

Yep. This is when the smartphone became ubiquitous and it became normal for little kids to carry ipads everywhere in the same way they used to carry a coloring book to a restaurant or the doctor. It's not rocket science.

I don't understand the confusion around this ... is it Covid? What else could it be? Etc. It's none of those things. Get rid of the computers and ipads in elementary schools for goodness sakes!! Ban phones in school ... not "keep it in your backpack" but the student should not be allowed to have it at all during the school day.

Can't you see the myon books and the ST math and the Lexia is all low-quality learning? Just take a look at them. At the least, it's not even close to reading real literature or references books, working through hard math problems on paper, and being taught how to read and write directly from a knowledgeable adult and then putting pencil to paper. It's not hard to figure out you guys, parents just need to be stronger and more vocal than the greedy tech companies.

I’ve never heard of myon books or ST math. What books are middle school students reading? Mine reads a lot of paper books in school but they seem on the easier side.

The books are so easy. It's pathetic.

I read Shakespeare in 8th grade. Do kids who are not in advanced classes even read Shakespeare in HS?

DP. Good question. I also read Shakespeare (MacBeth) in 8th grade - so also did everyone else - and a different Shakespeare play every year there after until I graduated HS. We read Beowulf and Canterbury Tales and Milton and other classic English literature one year. Classic American literature was covered another year. And we read the whole thing, not some excerpt. 8th grade also had A Tale of Two Cities, including covering the historical context for the novel. I wonder if any school still teaches these.

My kids went to Catholic schools and they both read a few of Shakespeare's plays (Merchant of Venice, Hamlet, Romeo and Juliet, Richard III) in addition to the Canterbury Tales and Beowulf. They also read books like A Farewell to Arms, Of Mice and Men, The Great Gatsby, Moby Dick, etc. They wrote 5-7 page papers on each plus research papers for their history classes. Lots of reading and writing throughout MS and HS.

If local schools, might you be willing to say which do this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Frightening article in the NYT today -

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/29/us/reading-skills-naep.html#commentsContainer

It’s all because of immigration. Import the third world, become the third world.

But the immigrants are doing very well in education. All the Asian-Americans are just exceptional students who have better English scores in all the standardized tests than...White and Black Americans who have lived here for more than 2 generations. Why is that?

They have parents who care and prioritize their education and enrichment. The secret sauce in Asian-American academic success is their culture and family. They are hard workers and believe in improving themselves. What other explanation is there for children of non-native English speakers, excelling in English comprehension and creative writing? They have educated themselves. In fact, most of these kids also excel in elocution. You see them excel in debate, poetry slams, speech etc.

The immigrants who decide to try and find a better life are not going to waste it. The cities usually have top students who come from countries all over the world. They aren’t wasting their time on activities six days a week. They are 100% focus on school academics. Americans whose families have been here for decades aren’t as motivated for the most part. Not all of course but there is a difference between immigrants and American born.

It’s not true that immigrants don’t do extracurriculars. Lots of immigrants’ children are doing music, math, chess, and sports now.

Music, math and chess are academic. Immigrants are not all the same but the importance of doing well after all the sacrifices to get to another country is very important. It makes sense.

Then what counts as an extracurricular other than sports?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Frightening article in the NYT today -

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/29/us/reading-skills-naep.html#commentsContainer

It’s all because of immigration. Import the third world, become the third world.

But the immigrants are doing very well in education. All the Asian-Americans are just exceptional students who have better English scores in all the standardized tests than...White and Black Americans who have lived here for more than 2 generations. Why is that?

They have parents who care and prioritize their education and enrichment. The secret sauce in Asian-American academic success is their culture and family. They are hard workers and believe in improving themselves. What other explanation is there for children of non-native English speakers, excelling in English comprehension and creative writing? They have educated themselves. In fact, most of these kids also excel in elocution. You see them excel in debate, poetry slams, speech etc.

Yes. Check out the National Spelling Bee line up or and computer science competition

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OK, but could kids 30 years ago also code? Program? Create videos and photos almost instantaneously? Graphic design? Audio recording? Create their own music tracks?

Yes, I could program. We had BASIC programming on TRS80s back in the 1980s. It was part of one of the math courses. I was pretty good at it. I helped the teacher's with their programming assignments in continuing education, or whatever it was called back then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Frightening article in the NYT today -

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/29/us/reading-skills-naep.html#commentsContainer

It’s all because of immigration. Import the third world, become the third world.

But the immigrants are doing very well in education. All the Asian-Americans are just exceptional students who have better English scores in all the standardized tests than...White and Black Americans who have lived here for more than 2 generations. Why is that?

They have parents who care and prioritize their education and enrichment. The secret sauce in Asian-American academic success is their culture and family. They are hard workers and believe in improving themselves. What other explanation is there for children of non-native English speakers, excelling in English comprehension and creative writing? They have educated themselves. In fact, most of these kids also excel in elocution. You see them excel in debate, poetry slams, speech etc.

The immigrants who decide to try and find a better life are not going to waste it. The cities usually have top students who come from countries all over the world. They aren’t wasting their time on activities six days a week. They are 100% focus on school academics. Americans whose families have been here for decades aren’t as motivated for the most part. Not all of course but there is a difference between immigrants and American born.

It’s not true that immigrants don’t do extracurriculars. Lots of immigrants’ children are doing music, math, chess, and sports now.

Music, math and chess are academic. Immigrants are not all the same but the importance of doing well after all the sacrifices to get to another country is very important. It makes sense.

Then what counts as an extracurricular other than sports?

Are you serious?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Computers, social media and lack of printed newspapers and easy entertainment are to blame. Even I can't read the longer more intense novels I used to as a teen in the 90s.

It's not just kids. Adults are scoring lower in reading comprehension as well. It started, for kids and adults, in 2012/2013, although the pandemic exacerbated it. (In 2012, 4G LTE was rolling out nationwide and we went from slow 3G smartphones to fast 4G smartphones. And that was it.)

Yep. This is when the smartphone became ubiquitous and it became normal for little kids to carry ipads everywhere in the same way they used to carry a coloring book to a restaurant or the doctor. It's not rocket science.

I don't understand the confusion around this ... is it Covid? What else could it be? Etc. It's none of those things. Get rid of the computers and ipads in elementary schools for goodness sakes!! Ban phones in school ... not "keep it in your backpack" but the student should not be allowed to have it at all during the school day.

Can't you see the myon books and the ST math and the Lexia is all low-quality learning? Just take a look at them. At the least, it's not even close to reading real literature or references books, working through hard math problems on paper, and being taught how to read and write directly from a knowledgeable adult and then putting pencil to paper. It's not hard to figure out you guys, parents just need to be stronger and more vocal than the greedy tech companies.

I’ve never heard of myon books or ST math. What books are middle school students reading? Mine reads a lot of paper books in school but they seem on the easier side.

The books are so easy. It's pathetic.

I read Shakespeare in 8th grade. Do kids who are not in advanced classes even read Shakespeare in HS?

DP. Good question. I also read Shakespeare (MacBeth) in 8th grade - so also did everyone else - and a different Shakespeare play every year there after until I graduated HS. We read Beowulf and Canterbury Tales and Milton and other classic English literature one year. Classic American literature was covered another year. And we read the whole thing, not some excerpt. 8th grade also had A Tale of Two Cities, including covering the historical context for the novel. I wonder if any school still teaches these.

My kids went to Catholic schools and they both read a few of Shakespeare's plays (Merchant of Venice, Hamlet, Romeo and Juliet, Richard III) in addition to the Canterbury Tales and Beowulf. They also read books like A Farewell to Arms, Of Mice and Men, The Great Gatsby, Moby Dick, etc. They wrote 5-7 page papers on each plus research papers for their history classes. Lots of reading and writing throughout MS and HS.

A lot of those books are still being read. In my opinion Moby Dick can go away. It’s dated in a bad way and so boring that it’s a horrible chore. Books shouldn’t feel that way.

My son’s middle school did a Shakespeare play every year and he would be in it. The Winters Tale, Hamlet, The Tempest were a few. I don’t see Charles Dickens’s books being read in my daughter’s middle school currently. I loved Dickens’s books and hated Shakespeare.

American writers from last century should be more prominent. A Raisin in the Sun by Lorraine Hansberry written in the 1960’s I think is excellent reading, only because I loved it but still. James Baldwin, an American author from last century wrote If Beale Street Could Talk and Go Tell It on the Mountain and he should be considered one of our more prominent American writers.

I’m embarrassed to say what my 7th grader is reading, mostly because I can’t because I forget the name and also you can find it in Target under their collection of mindless reading. It’s a good book for outside reading but not for English class.

[Anonymous]

I'm a high school English teacher, and I've taught in multiple countries other than the US. It's the same everywhere. Different countries and different schools have wildly contrasting views and policies re: homework, extracurriculars, weekend academic programs, etc, but none of those things make a real difference. The real issue is a combo of: screen addiction, too much time in front of a screen in general, easily accessed summaries and "study guides" and cheating sites for every book, and social media.

The effect is dramatic and it is bad. The kids can't read. I've been teaching for almost 20 years, and the difference between what teens can do now vs. in the earlier years of my career is shocking.

If I had a rich backer, I would like to start a boarding school that is screen-free (except for select library activities), with kids living without smartphones or computers, a great deal of time spent socializing in real life and being outside, and real books.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Computers, social media and lack of printed newspapers and easy entertainment are to blame. Even I can't read the longer more intense novels I used to as a teen in the 90s.

It's not just kids. Adults are scoring lower in reading comprehension as well. It started, for kids and adults, in 2012/2013, although the pandemic exacerbated it. (In 2012, 4G LTE was rolling out nationwide and we went from slow 3G smartphones to fast 4G smartphones. And that was it.)

Yep. This is when the smartphone became ubiquitous and it became normal for little kids to carry ipads everywhere in the same way they used to carry a coloring book to a restaurant or the doctor. It's not rocket science.

I don't understand the confusion around this ... is it Covid? What else could it be? Etc. It's none of those things. Get rid of the computers and ipads in elementary schools for goodness sakes!! Ban phones in school ... not "keep it in your backpack" but the student should not be allowed to have it at all during the school day.

Can't you see the myon books and the ST math and the Lexia is all low-quality learning? Just take a look at them. At the least, it's not even close to reading real literature or references books, working through hard math problems on paper, and being taught how to read and write directly from a knowledgeable adult and then putting pencil to paper. It's not hard to figure out you guys, parents just need to be stronger and more vocal than the greedy tech companies.

I’ve never heard of myon books or ST math. What books are middle school students reading? Mine reads a lot of paper books in school but they seem on the easier side.

The books are so easy. It's pathetic.

I read Shakespeare in 8th grade. Do kids who are not in advanced classes even read Shakespeare in HS?

DP. Good question. I also read Shakespeare (MacBeth) in 8th grade - so also did everyone else - and a different Shakespeare play every year there after until I graduated HS. We read Beowulf and Canterbury Tales and Milton and other classic English literature one year. Classic American literature was covered another year. And we read the whole thing, not some excerpt. 8th grade also had A Tale of Two Cities, including covering the historical context for the novel. I wonder if any school still teaches these.

My kids went to Catholic schools and they both read a few of Shakespeare's plays (Merchant of Venice, Hamlet, Romeo and Juliet, Richard III) in addition to the Canterbury Tales and Beowulf. They also read books like A Farewell to Arms, Of Mice and Men, The Great Gatsby, Moby Dick, etc. They wrote 5-7 page papers on each plus research papers for their history classes. Lots of reading and writing throughout MS and HS.

If local schools, might you be willing to say which do this?

They are in Baltimore but I’m sure you can find something local if you do your research.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Schools should be required to be screen free the entire day. EdTech is a disaster for learning. It's not like back in the day when tech was something you had to learn to use. These days, even Gorillas and chipanzees can use Ipads! https://www.wired.com/2012/05/orangutans-use-the-ipad/

If there was one thing I could fire into the sun, it would be EdTech.

+ a million

On top of how it rots our kids' brain, it is an incredible waste of school system money that could be better spent on aides and the actual human beings that teach our children

+1, it's a scam. Also at the same time it's rewiring kids' brains for short attention spans and needing dopamine hits provide by interactive screens to maintain interest in something, it also contributes to weaker teaching skills. Teachers who become reliant on programs like iReady don't get as much experience as older teachers got with working with students, and young teachers need the reps.

Teachers often like iPads in classrooms because it gives them a break that they can use to work with small groups or individuals (other kids will be more engaged with a screen than they would be with solo work). That's understandable, but short sighted. It's the same problem as you see with parents who rely on screens to distract kids -- the kids do not learn how to behave without the pacifier of the screen, and it leads to worse behavior long-term.

+2 What I don't understand is how there seemingly hasn't been much investigation into the corruption that is obviously happening. A lot of people are clearly getting paid to push this poison in schools.

Schools end up using technology to mitigate issues with overcrowding/understaffing.

We should properly fund our schools to reduce class size and bring in more teachers and reading specialists.

This is untrue. Class sizes in our area used to be bigger. We still have the photos. It's dumbing down the standards. Maybe reducing the budget too to take out the tech dollars and use workbooks instead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a high school English teacher, and I've taught in multiple countries other than the US. It's the same everywhere. Different countries and different schools have wildly contrasting views and policies re: homework, extracurriculars, weekend academic programs, etc, but none of those things make a real difference. The real issue is a combo of: screen addiction, too much time in front of a screen in general, easily accessed summaries and "study guides" and cheating sites for every book, and social media.

The effect is dramatic and it is bad. The kids can't read. I've been teaching for almost 20 years, and the difference between what teens can do now vs. in the earlier years of my career is shocking.

If I had a rich backer, I would like to start a boarding school that is screen-free (except for select library activities), with kids living without smartphones or computers, a great deal of time spent socializing in real life and being outside, and real books.

They have a popular Waldorf school in Vermont and the comments all read that these families specifically moved there for the school. Most people would have to have a remote job to do this but I can understand why they did to get away from the screens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Schools should be required to be screen free the entire day. EdTech is a disaster for learning. It's not like back in the day when tech was something you had to learn to use. These days, even Gorillas and chipanzees can use Ipads! https://www.wired.com/2012/05/orangutans-use-the-ipad/

If there was one thing I could fire into the sun, it would be EdTech.

+ a million

On top of how it rots our kids' brain, it is an incredible waste of school system money that could be better spent on aides and the actual human beings that teach our children

+1, it's a scam. Also at the same time it's rewiring kids' brains for short attention spans and needing dopamine hits provide by interactive screens to maintain interest in something, it also contributes to weaker teaching skills. Teachers who become reliant on programs like iReady don't get as much experience as older teachers got with working with students, and young teachers need the reps.

Teachers often like iPads in classrooms because it gives them a break that they can use to work with small groups or individuals (other kids will be more engaged with a screen than they would be with solo work). That's understandable, but short sighted. It's the same problem as you see with parents who rely on screens to distract kids -- the kids do not learn how to behave without the pacifier of the screen, and it leads to worse behavior long-term.

+2 What I don't understand is how there seemingly hasn't been much investigation into the corruption that is obviously happening. A lot of people are clearly getting paid to push this poison in schools.

Schools end up using technology to mitigate issues with overcrowding/understaffing.

We should properly fund our schools to reduce class size and bring in more teachers and reading specialists.

This is untrue. Class sizes in our area used to be bigger. We still have the photos. It's dumbing down the standards. Maybe reducing the budget too to take out the tech dollars and use workbooks instead.

There was no differentiation back then. Teachers just taught and it didn’t matter if some kids already knew it or if some kids didn’t get it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Frightening article in the NYT today -

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/29/us/reading-skills-naep.html#commentsContainer

It’s all because of immigration. Import the third world, become the third world.

But the immigrants are doing very well in education. All the Asian-Americans are just exceptional students who have better English scores in all the standardized tests than...White and Black Americans who have lived here for more than 2 generations. Why is that?

They have parents who care and prioritize their education and enrichment. The secret sauce in Asian-American academic success is their culture and family. They are hard workers and believe in improving themselves. What other explanation is there for children of non-native English speakers, excelling in English comprehension and creative writing? They have educated themselves. In fact, most of these kids also excel in elocution. You see them excel in debate, poetry slams, speech etc.

Yes. Check out the National Spelling Bee line up or and computer science competition

No they don’t excel in poetry slams compared to Black Americans and White Americans. Black teens dominate poetry slams. They do excel at spelling bees but most Americans see those as a huge waste of time.

Debate is new to some Asian countries while some still don’t teach debate at all. It’s a positive step towards removing Asian stereotypes that they are just good at repeating what they have learned or memorized.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a high school English teacher, and I've taught in multiple countries other than the US. It's the same everywhere. Different countries and different schools have wildly contrasting views and policies re: homework, extracurriculars, weekend academic programs, etc, but none of those things make a real difference. The real issue is a combo of: screen addiction, too much time in front of a screen in general, easily accessed summaries and "study guides" and cheating sites for every book, and social media.

The effect is dramatic and it is bad. The kids can't read. I've been teaching for almost 20 years, and the difference between what teens can do now vs. in the earlier years of my career is shocking.

If I had a rich backer, I would like to start a boarding school that is screen-free (except for select library activities), with kids living without smartphones or computers, a great deal of time spent socializing in real life and being outside, and real books.

They have a popular Waldorf school in Vermont and the comments all read that these families specifically moved there for the school. Most people would have to have a remote job to do this but I can understand why they did to get away from the screens.

There’s at least one similar school in California. I heard many of the kids are actually children of Silicon Valley tech big shots!