I hate how fraternities brag that they are so great when they reject most students

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's all the worst instincts of human tribalism, but held up as some sort of desirable lifestyle.

I'm European and never had to deal with that sort of thing in my university, but I'm surprised that Americans, supposedly more egalitarian than many others around the world, would aspire to such things. My kids have no interest in any of it, thank goodness.

And please. There's nothing greek about it. What's up with purloining all the greek letters of the alphabet? So try-hard.

No one said that. The use of three greek letters goes back to the first chapter of the honor society Phi Beta Kappa at William & Mary, the nation's second oldest institution of higher learning

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was in a Frat at UVA and wife was at a Sorority. We will NEVER tell our DS to join a Fraternity.

We know that 80% of Frat kids and 70% of Sorority girls are losers in life. Either a bunch of followers with no spine, or so introverted that you need to pay for friends, or so worry about status that this becomes 50% of your life. Complete joke.

It is 2025. There is no need for Greek system to exist.

Or, even easier, just don't participate ! UVA isn't like W&M where 76% of the student body participates. My UVA kid spent four happy years there and never once stepped into a Greek house. It's only 26% participation there.

+1. MOST people at UVA are not Greek.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was in a Frat at UVA and wife was at a Sorority. We will NEVER tell our DS to join a Fraternity.

We know that 80% of Frat kids and 70% of Sorority girls are losers in life. Either a bunch of followers with no spine, or so introverted that you need to pay for friends, or so worry about status that this becomes 50% of your life. Complete joke.

It is 2025. There is no need for Greek system to exist.

Or, even easier, just don't participate ! UVA isn't like W&M where 76% of the student body participates. My UVA kid spent four happy years there and never once stepped into a Greek house. It's only 26% participation there.

Whoa - 76% go Greek at W&M??
DP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Fraternities like to brag about how they are a great way to make friends and connections when most people will never end up in a single chapter. They are exclusionary. Like at UVA, half of the guys rushing never end up a bid anywhere, which is especially painful when UVA itself is extremely hard to get in. It is sick because rush isn't a meritocracy like sport tryouts are. There is no clear criteria of what makes someone a better candidate for a fraternity over another student. It is a process full of nepotism, and those who get in receive all the benefits on a college campus. And no one cares about making the process more fair.

And what makes me even more sick is that this forum is filled with former fraternity and sorority members who wants to bully and attack those who got rejected. So many people hate greek life for being elitist and bullies, and many members are proving those concerns right.

Cool people pick other cool people to join them. Frats only exist to have a place to throw parties where they know they will have a lot of girls show up and a lot of drinking to help lower their inhibitions. Not everyone is deemed cool enough to be selected to be invited to the grift.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's all the worst instincts of human tribalism, but held up as some sort of desirable lifestyle.

I'm European and never had to deal with that sort of thing in my university, but I'm surprised that Americans, supposedly more egalitarian than many others around the world, would aspire to such things. My kids have no interest in any of it, thank goodness.

And please. There's nothing greek about it. What's up with purloining all the greek letters of the alphabet? So try-hard.

No one said that. The use of three greek letters goes back to the first chapter of the honor society Phi Beta Kappa at William & Mary, the nation's second oldest institution of higher learning

But they were a bunch of fecking nerds, LARPing as Spartans. Most other fraternities don't even like nerds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When I was in college, I had a friend who was plied with alcohol until she passed out and then sexually assaulted by three fraternity brothers. She could never come forward because she would have been ostracized at her sorority. Does that still happen? On the off chance that it does, I told DS that he will never, over my dead body join a frat.

Seems like the human-trafficking sorority was the avoidable problem there. A non fraternity guy could have raped her also.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was in a Frat at UVA and wife was at a Sorority. We will NEVER tell our DS to join a Fraternity.

We know that 80% of Frat kids and 70% of Sorority girls are losers in life. Either a bunch of followers with no spine, or so introverted that you need to pay for friends, or so worry about status that this becomes 50% of your life. Complete joke.

It is 2025. There is no need for Greek system to exist.

And your wine is better without those sour grapes!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rush is great preparation for the real world. Not everyone is going to like you, you may not be a good fit or your skills/likeness fit in with the culture and you are exactly what is needed. Go where you are wanted. Most kids these days seem to have a very different view of themselves versus what everyone else sees. Kids from the DC area seem to think they are “better” than kids from other areas and rush may actually be a good wake up call

Don't lie to yourself. You know full well that fraternities and sororities place great weight on a certain look and manner - you need to be handsome in a certain way, presentable in a certain way, and talk in a certain way. And white American for a lot of the frats and sororities. A whole lot of diverse populations who might do very well in the real world get left out of that. The real world is actually much wider and more tolerant than you think it is, with careers to suit a great many intellects and social profiles.

My husband is an Asian MD/PhD on the spectrum - he doesn't do small talk, he doesn't present particularly well, he wouldn't check any of the standard boxes. He would never have had a chance in a Greek life system. How can you be so stupid to believe that rushing is a great preparation for the real world? And yet he's done exceptionally well for himself in the real world, because older people looking for real professional talent aren't as shallow as most young idiots in frats and sororities.

What a moron you are.

I’m not going to resort to name calling but please face reality. Your husband would not be hired for a public facing job because he likely lacks the skills needed. Greek life is essentially a social club. You need to be presentable and have social skills. There are clubs and jobs for everyone. People should know where they would do best.

Not everyone wants to be a salesman

You are making PP's point.

[Anonymous]

So typical: My kid can't get in, so the Greek system is mean, worthless and should be disbanded.

If that was how you really felt, then why did your kid rush in the first place?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rush is great preparation for the real world. Not everyone is going to like you, you may not be a good fit or your skills/likeness fit in with the culture and you are exactly what is needed. Go where you are wanted. Most kids these days seem to have a very different view of themselves versus what everyone else sees. Kids from the DC area seem to think they are “better” than kids from other areas and rush may actually be a good wake up call

Don't lie to yourself. You know full well that fraternities and sororities place great weight on a certain look and manner - you need to be handsome in a certain way, presentable in a certain way, and talk in a certain way. And white American for a lot of the frats and sororities. A whole lot of diverse populations who might do very well in the real world get left out of that. The real world is actually much wider and more tolerant than you think it is, with careers to suit a great many intellects and social profiles.

My husband is an Asian MD/PhD on the spectrum - he doesn't do small talk, he doesn't present particularly well, he wouldn't check any of the standard boxes. He would never have had a chance in a Greek life system. How can you be so stupid to believe that rushing is a great preparation for the real world? And yet he's done exceptionally well for himself in the real world, because older people looking for real professional talent aren't as shallow as most young idiots in frats and sororities.

What a moron you are.

DP. I have two boys in fraternities at state schools, one T25. Both have had non-white presidents. One was south-Asian and one was Asian. FYI. I’m not saying it’s not mostly white, but I think you’re placing more emphasis on looks than is true. They’re both motley crews of boys.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was in a Frat at UVA and wife was at a Sorority. We will NEVER tell our DS to join a Fraternity.

We know that 80% of Frat kids and 70% of Sorority girls are losers in life. Either a bunch of followers with no spine, or so introverted that you need to pay for friends, or so worry about status that this becomes 50% of your life. Complete joke.

It is 2025. There is no need for Greek system to exist.

Or, even easier, just don't participate ! UVA isn't like W&M where 76% of the student body participates. My UVA kid spent four happy years there and never once stepped into a Greek house. It's only 26% participation there.

Whoa - 76% go Greek at W&M??
DP

Yes. It's the only institution that I'm aware of that posts the costs of participation in the Greek system on its admissions costs-of-attendance page. We toured but this was such a turn-off for DS that he never applied. Went to UVA where he never participated in the Greek system

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So typical: My kid can't get in, so the Greek system is mean, worthless and should be disbanded.

If that was how you really felt, then why did your kid rush in the first place?

Exactly. Sour grapes. This is life. It just becomes country ckubs later on

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Fraternities like to brag about how they are a great way to make friends and connections when most people will never end up in a single chapter. They are exclusionary. Like at UVA, half of the guys rushing never end up a bid anywhere, which is especially painful when UVA itself is extremely hard to get in. It is sick because rush isn't a meritocracy like sport tryouts are. There is no clear criteria of what makes someone a better candidate for a fraternity over another student. It is a process full of nepotism, and those who get in receive all the benefits on a college campus. And no one cares about making the process more fair.

And what makes me even more sick is that this forum is filled with former fraternity and sorority members who wants to bully and attack those who got rejected. So many people hate greek life for being elitist and bullies, and many members are proving those concerns right.

Almost every greek system has a "no cut" fraternity that any reasonably normal kid can get into.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You do realize this could happen at any party. Just stop it on the frats

well yes it can (and does) happen at any party. But statistically, it happens much more frequently in Frats. Greek life at many universities feeds this mentality, the guys think they are some type of "better than everyone else" because of the frat they are in. Manytimes these assaults are encouraged by the frat members, and they are known for having a history of this.

So sure, it can happen anywhere, but it is much more likely to happen when you put a group of guys together where the whole purpose is for them to host the best parties and be the most popular guys on campus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You do realize this could happen at any party. Just stop it on the frats

pp here- agreed it could have happened at any party. What may not have happened however, was the "systemic code of silence or face retaliation" that followed.

baloney

It is baloney because:
a) she went to
the party knowing alcohol would be served;
b) she chose to drink;
c) she wasn't plied with anything;
d) she could have reported it easily to the school or police. It's done all of the time.

So now you are victim blaming? Very likely the "plying with alcohol" also included some "laced with drugs" And no, many women do not report because they don't want to deal with the victim blaming, the shame, etc that comes with it. Especially a 20 yo whose "best friends" are begging them not to tell as it would shame the sorority and they will loose all their friends.