How families have changed in the last 50 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What changed? People are now viewing family relationships as investments rather than insurance. It used to be that you put in some efforts because you never know what might happen, but family, however dysfunctional, was supposed to be there to help you, blood thicker than water and so on. And if it seemed like you are putting in more than you are get your, you considered yourself lucky that it’s not you who needs support. Now, the family backup is not as crucial or feasible for many reasons, and if you don’t think you are getting a fair deal, you might as well opt out.

I think this PP may be onto something. In old times there was no SS, no kindergarten, no jobs for women, so whether you wanted or not, you had to suck it up. It also reflects in marriages as women don't have to stay at their husband's mercy. Access to resources and money has made all the difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Biggest difference--people are smarter and refuse to take the abuse.

Just like there were less divorces back in the day. Didn't mean that women didn't want them

This, but also plenty of estrangements in our families. Some were easy to create through moving to another country. Some were people in the same area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH and I were talking the other night about how both of our families have dysfunction going back at least several generations, but how differently it impacts people today compared to 50 years ago, and how differently people feel and think about it.

The dysfunction in question is lots of alcohol abuse in both families, mental health issues that largely went undiagnosed, plus trauma -- lot of abuse against kids when they were young (not just spanking but like kids being beaten up by parents and siblings), plus societal traumas like the Great Depression, WWII, and the act of immigrating with no money and to a country where they faced a lot of discrimination.

But there are these stark differences between how our parents' and grandparents' generations handled those issues, and how our generation is handling it.

I just wonder what changed. A lot of the same issues are present by where my parents and grandparents managed to work through them to maintain family ties, my generation just isn't. I now wonder if I will ever see my siblings after my parents pass -- if things continue as they are, I will only see them if I do all the work to make it happen. It's sad.

You’re only describing a very small piece of the population. 50 years ago people were treated for mental health issues. There were probably more people who were ignorant about it and didn’t seek help but it was there, as bad as it is today. Most kids weren’t beaten. There are always immigrants coming in but most Americans have had generations of being American 50 years ago.

Fifty years ago young people had Vietnam to deal with along with the veterans being poorly treated. Our best leaders had been assassinated. The South was a hellhole that would burn their neighborhood down before they let Black people live there. Times weren’t great for a lot of people. I don’t think people today appreciate that although this country has many issues including why they would vote for someone like half of Americans did, there have been many worse times in our history.

Another person ignorant about U.S. history. The comments you made about the South were absolutely true in the North, the Midwest, and the West - everywhere. Many of the prefab communities in the North had rules against allowing anyone other than Whites from living in them. There are many known issues in all of the areas of this country with racism.

The Civil Rights Movement was fought in the South. It was fought in Georgia where they would close schools rather than allow Black students to attend. Where they had a governor who promised voters segregation forever. It was fought in Alabama where grown Black women had to give their seat on a bus to a White man if the White section was full. The Freedom Riders in Mississippi who worked to get Black citizens registered to vote were met with violence, jail and murder by authorities.

No place is safe from racism just like no place is safe from violence. But there’s no comparison. Mississippi had almost 600 recorded lynchings. There are no recorded history of lynchings in Massachusetts . That doesn’t mean it was all peaceful in Massachusetts, it means that Mississippi was a more dangerous place.

Changes were and are slow in most of the country. But states slowly did the right things to push equality. All except The South where it took a war for them to release slaves and it took the federal government to force them to stop segregation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH and I were talking the other night about how both of our families have dysfunction going back at least several generations, but how differently it impacts people today compared to 50 years ago, and how differently people feel and think about it.

The dysfunction in question is lots of alcohol abuse in both families, mental health issues that largely went undiagnosed, plus trauma -- lot of abuse against kids when they were young (not just spanking but like kids being beaten up by parents and siblings), plus societal traumas like the Great Depression, WWII, and the act of immigrating with no money and to a country where they faced a lot of discrimination.

But there are these stark differences between how our parents' and grandparents' generations handled those issues, and how our generation is handling it.

I just wonder what changed. A lot of the same issues are present by where my parents and grandparents managed to work through them to maintain family ties, my generation just isn't. I now wonder if I will ever see my siblings after my parents pass -- if things continue as they are, I will only see them if I do all the work to make it happen. It's sad.

You’re only describing a very small piece of the population. 50 years ago people were treated for mental health issues. There were probably more people who were ignorant about it and didn’t seek help but it was there, as bad as it is today. Most kids weren’t beaten. There are always immigrants coming in but most Americans have had generations of being American 50 years ago.

Fifty years ago young people had Vietnam to deal with along with the veterans being poorly treated. Our best leaders had been assassinated. The South was a hellhole that would burn their neighborhood down before they let Black people live there. Times weren’t great for a lot of people. I don’t think people today appreciate that although this country has many issues including why they would vote for someone like half of Americans did, there have been many worse times in our history.

Another person ignorant about U.S. history. The comments you made about the South were absolutely true in the North, the Midwest, and the West - everywhere. Many of the prefab communities in the North had rules against allowing anyone other than Whites from living in them. There are many known issues in all of the areas of this country with racism.

The banking industry took over the racist practice of segregation for the violent racists. Through redlining, people were able to keep their neighborhoods lily white and there was no longer a need to burn down anything, although I'm sure it still happened.

The government still uses a form of redlining when creating districts to ensure certain outcomes even though it’s illegal. There will always be corruption. What’s important is what our response is to corrupt people in power.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH and I were talking the other night about how both of our families have dysfunction going back at least several generations, but how differently it impacts people today compared to 50 years ago, and how differently people feel and think about it.

The dysfunction in question is lots of alcohol abuse in both families, mental health issues that largely went undiagnosed, plus trauma -- lot of abuse against kids when they were young (not just spanking but like kids being beaten up by parents and siblings), plus societal traumas like the Great Depression, WWII, and the act of immigrating with no money and to a country where they faced a lot of discrimination.

But there are these stark differences between how our parents' and grandparents' generations handled those issues, and how our generation is handling it.

I just wonder what changed. A lot of the same issues are present by where my parents and grandparents managed to work through them to maintain family ties, my generation just isn't. I now wonder if I will ever see my siblings after my parents pass -- if things continue as they are, I will only see them if I do all the work to make it happen. It's sad.

You’re only describing a very small piece of the population. 50 years ago people were treated for mental health issues. There were probably more people who were ignorant about it and didn’t seek help but it was there, as bad as it is today. Most kids weren’t beaten. There are always immigrants coming in but most Americans have had generations of being American 50 years ago.

Fifty years ago young people had Vietnam to deal with along with the veterans being poorly treated. Our best leaders had been assassinated. The South was a hellhole that would burn their neighborhood down before they let Black people live there. Times weren’t great for a lot of people. I don’t think people today appreciate that although this country has many issues including why they would vote for someone like half of Americans did, there have been many worse times in our history.

Another person ignorant about U.S. history. The comments you made about the South were absolutely true in the North, the Midwest, and the West - everywhere. Many of the prefab communities in the North had rules against allowing anyone other than Whites from living in them. There are many known issues in all of the areas of this country with racism.

The Civil Rights Movement was fought in the South. It was fought in Georgia where they would close schools rather than allow Black students to attend. Where they had a governor who promised voters segregation forever. It was fought in Alabama where grown Black women had to give their seat on a bus to a White man if the White section was full. The Freedom Riders in Mississippi who worked to get Black citizens registered to vote were met with violence, jail and murder by authorities.

No place is safe from racism just like no place is safe from violence. But there’s no comparison. Mississippi had almost 600 recorded lynchings. There are no recorded history of lynchings in Massachusetts . That doesn’t mean it was all peaceful in Massachusetts, it means that Mississippi was a more dangerous place.

Changes were and are slow in most of the country. But states slowly did the right things to push equality. All except The South where it took a war for them to release slaves and it took the federal government to force them to stop segregation.

+1
Mississippi didn't change their state constitution to outlaw slavery until the 70's.

[Anonymous]

Blood is thicker than water. I realize this the older I get.

[Anonymous]

Love this conversation. I think there are a lot of confounding reasons but I hate the positive narrative of estranging from family.

I feel like sometimes people are in a competition for whose trauma is worst. Really enjoyed the book the Power of Being Disliked and its discussion of denying trauma.

Another idea to add would be the role of women as kinkeepers. Women don't have the same ability or desire to continue to be the kinkeepers for both themselves and their husband.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Biggest difference--people are smarter and refuse to take the abuse.

Just like there were less divorces back in the day. Didn't mean that women didn't want them

Agree.

And not only that, but people had all but the paperwork divorces in the past. From doing genealogy I have seen a few marriages where the couple lived apart but never divorced. And one lived with someone else (claiming to be a widow and his suster in the census) whom she married after the first husband finally died. There was that cliche, "Dad went out for a pack of cigarettes and never came back." People pretended to be widows/widowers or had late in life babies that were their daughters' or neices'.

There were also estrangements among siblings but they didn't use therapy-style language to talk about it. But I know of a couple in my grandparents' families and these were late 19th century/early 20th century people.

People also may have gotten together more but it's probably for the same reason they do today: feelings of obligation or they do want to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That’s not uniformly true.

My grandfather didn’t stay in contact with his family much due to racism. He got a job and faced discrimination. He was worried that he would lose his job if he stayed in contact with them. His bosses threatened him to stop contacting them so he did.

This was more than 50 years ago.

I think codependency is a strong pull with isolated family groups. It’s difficult to make new connections when you build ties with people just because of shared history.

It was more common back then for people to clip their kid's wings to keep them nearby. They needed some of the kids to stay around to do the physical labor of the farm or to run the business. These days it's only the insecure or attention driven parents who do this to their kids. We know they need to fly and plenty of kids post WW2 knew back then and left their hometowns for work.

Ergo, "How are you gonna keep 'em down on the farm now that they've seen Paree?" (Paris)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH and I were talking the other night about how both of our families have dysfunction going back at least several generations, but how differently it impacts people today compared to 50 years ago, and how differently people feel and think about it.

The dysfunction in question is lots of alcohol abuse in both families, mental health issues that largely went undiagnosed, plus trauma -- lot of abuse against kids when they were young (not just spanking but like kids being beaten up by parents and siblings), plus societal traumas like the Great Depression, WWII, and the act of immigrating with no money and to a country where they faced a lot of discrimination.

But there are these stark differences between how our parents' and grandparents' generations handled those issues, and how our generation is handling it.

I just wonder what changed. A lot of the same issues are present by where my parents and grandparents managed to work through them to maintain family ties, my generation just isn't. I now wonder if I will ever see my siblings after my parents pass -- if things continue as they are, I will only see them if I do all the work to make it happen. It's sad.

You’re only describing a very small piece of the population. 50 years ago people were treated for mental health issues. There were probably more people who were ignorant about it and didn’t seek help but it was there, as bad as it is today. Most kids weren’t beaten. There are always immigrants coming in but most Americans have had generations of being American 50 years ago.

Fifty years ago young people had Vietnam to deal with along with the veterans being poorly treated. Our best leaders had been assassinated. The South was a hellhole that would burn their neighborhood down before they let Black people live there. Times weren’t great for a lot of people. I don’t think people today appreciate that although this country has many issues including why they would vote for someone like half of Americans did, there have been many worse times in our history.

Another person ignorant about U.S. history. The comments you made about the South were absolutely true in the North, the Midwest, and the West - everywhere. Many of the prefab communities in the North had rules against allowing anyone other than Whites from living in them. There are many known issues in all of the areas of this country with racism.

The Civil Rights Movement was fought in the South. It was fought in Georgia where they would close schools rather than allow Black students to attend. Where they had a governor who promised voters segregation forever. It was fought in Alabama where grown Black women had to give their seat on a bus to a White man if the White section was full. The Freedom Riders in Mississippi who worked to get Black citizens registered to vote were met with violence, jail and murder by authorities.

No place is safe from racism just like no place is safe from violence. But there’s no comparison. Mississippi had almost 600 recorded lynchings. There are no recorded history of lynchings in Massachusetts . That doesn’t mean it was all peaceful in Massachusetts, it means that Mississippi was a more dangerous place.

Changes were and are slow in most of the country. But states slowly did the right things to push equality. All except The South where it took a war for them to release slaves and it took the federal government to force them to stop segregation.

+1

[Anonymous]

This is a weird thread. My father was raised by a single mom after being abandoned by his father, and my mother's parents kicked her out of the house for dating out of her religion (my father). They were both completely alone for most of my childhood. Where are people getting this idea that the past was a utopia?

[Anonymous]

Canceling of elders simply did not exist. Not inviting grandparents for Christmas so we can have our nuclear family celebration was unheard of. Grandparents were considered a valuable part of the family and were welcomed at all holidays. The grandparents of yesteryears hosted many of the holidays.

[Anonymous]

Families have always had their problems, but now we have social media telling young people that their family members are toxic, everyone’s a narcissist, and encouraging cutting off family members if they have a problem with them (& that people can “choose their own family” of friends). In the past, people were more likely to recognize the imperfections but suck it up, because family was considered very important.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Canceling of elders simply did not exist. Not inviting grandparents for Christmas so we can have our nuclear family celebration was unheard of. Grandparents were considered a valuable part of the family and were welcomed at all holidays. The grandparents of yesteryears hosted many of the holidays.

This is such BS. Rude grandparents were not invited to Christmas 50 years ago either. Boomers have this weird view that all grandparents before them were revered, put on a pedestal and the tushy kissing never ended. It was pure bliss for the grandparents who were pampered by obedient, reverent children and now it should be their turn!

It’s so bizarre because most of the boomers we know in our family or as kids growing up did squat for their parents yet expect a ridiculous amount of bending over backward to make as many holidays and vacations all about them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Canceling of elders simply did not exist. Not inviting grandparents for Christmas so we can have our nuclear family celebration was unheard of. Grandparents were considered a valuable part of the family and were welcomed at all holidays. The grandparents of yesteryears hosted many of the holidays.

This is such BS. Rude grandparents were not invited to Christmas 50 years ago either. Boomers have this weird view that all grandparents before them were revered, put on a pedestal and the tushy kissing never ended. It was pure bliss for the grandparents who were pampered by obedient, reverent children and now it should be their turn!

It’s so bizarre because most of the boomers we know in our family or as kids growing up did squat for their parents yet expect a ridiculous amount of bending over backward to make as many holidays and vacations all about them.

Both Socrates and Plato have famous quotes about “kids today”— they complained that they don’t respect their elders, they run their households (instead of serving their parents), and play instead of study.

People of a certain age have been complaining about young people nowadays and the loss of the glorious past/respect for elders since at least Ancient Greece. It cracks me up.