White people obsession with kids sports

[Anonymous]

My office shares a hallway with Kumon tutoring company. There are 3 year olds there. All South Asian. I don't want to hear about the whites.

[Anonymous]

All the ice skater babies are Asian. All of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Google is your friend. Start with articles like these, go to the original research and then to the citations:

https://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/being-a-team-player-why-college-athletes-succeed-in-business

This article is from this year but the research has been available for years. There are more out there. Also plenty of articles simply linking career and sports success.

The research for this particular article shows that team sports players admitted with lower gpas than average outperform peers. (In contrast, individual players of wealthy sports, indicating a wealthy background, only leads to a slight career advantage).

Your link is about college sports. The vast majority of kids playing sports in elementary school (this forum) won’t make it that far in their chosen sport.

It’s interesting, but I do wonder if the crop of kids who become collegiate athletes is fundamentally different. Your take away may be overly broad.

So find the other ones. Deloitte had one about women leaders and sports. There have been countless studies on sports.

Did you study an instrument? What did you learn? Precision? Perfectionism?

There is a lot of work that does not require precision or perfectionism. It does require knowing how to be a team captain, playing on a team to win, motivating a team, coaching a team. You won’t learn this in science class.

Hey, just for the record I want to state that for many kids, playing an instrument is a great way to learn a lot of skills besides precision and perfectionism. Playing in an ensemble or orchestra is absolutely a team activity. You literally have to be aware of every other member of your group at all times, and follow your leader to do your part. These kids work hard to take a piece of music and each contribute their own effort to make a whole.

What I’m saying is that there are a lot of ways to learn the value of teamwork and effort, and it’s OK if some groups prefer one over another!

That’s an interesting premise and even mentioned in the working paper as an area to be studied: how do other extracurriculars align with career progression? No one said sports or nothing. I would say there’s a big difference between learning to play a piece perfectly as an ensemble and learning to win and lose as a team, but I have never done a comparison.

Just look at corporate lingo and how much of it is borrowed from sports. The kids who have played have a deep understanding of these concepts.

I get what you're saying, but a lot of these guys (and yes, it's mostly guys) are giving Al Bundy, not Tom Brady. It's embarrassing that they still talk like 20-year-old bros. We can pick up team analogies just fine without sports experience, thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Google is your friend. Start with articles like these, go to the original research and then to the citations:

https://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/being-a-team-player-why-college-athletes-succeed-in-business

This article is from this year but the research has been available for years. There are more out there. Also plenty of articles simply linking career and sports success.

The research for this particular article shows that team sports players admitted with lower gpas than average outperform peers. (In contrast, individual players of wealthy sports, indicating a wealthy background, only leads to a slight career advantage).

Your link is about college sports. The vast majority of kids playing sports in elementary school (this forum) won’t make it that far in their chosen sport.

It’s interesting, but I do wonder if the crop of kids who become collegiate athletes is fundamentally different. Your take away may be overly broad.

So find the other ones. Deloitte had one about women leaders and sports. There have been countless studies on sports.

Did you study an instrument? What did you learn? Precision? Perfectionism?

There is a lot of work that does not require precision or perfectionism. It does require knowing how to be a team captain, playing on a team to win, motivating a team, coaching a team. You won’t learn this in science class.

Hey, just for the record I want to state that for many kids, playing an instrument is a great way to learn a lot of skills besides precision and perfectionism. Playing in an ensemble or orchestra is absolutely a team activity. You literally have to be aware of every other member of your group at all times, and follow your leader to do your part. These kids work hard to take a piece of music and each contribute their own effort to make a whole.

What I’m saying is that there are a lot of ways to learn the value of teamwork and effort, and it’s OK if some groups prefer one over another!

That’s an interesting premise and even mentioned in the working paper as an area to be studied: how do other extracurriculars align with career progression? No one said sports or nothing. I would say there’s a big difference between learning to play a piece perfectly as an ensemble and learning to win and lose as a team, but I have never done a comparison.

Just look at corporate lingo and how much of it is borrowed from sports. The kids who have played have a deep understanding of these concepts.

I get what you're saying, but a lot of these guys (and yes, it's mostly guys) are giving Al Bundy, not Tom Brady. It's embarrassing that they still talk like 20-year-old bros. We can pick up team analogies just fine without sports experience, thanks.

No one’s saying you have to do it. No one’s saying someone who doesn’t play sports can’t get the analogies. In fact my own kids are dropping their team sports. They’ll understand the analogies fine.

The analogies come from sports because of the similarities between playing a game and playing in business. Harvard shows college athletes have a leg up because of the transferable skills help them play better. There’s a big difference between college athletics and rec soccer. Somewhere in the middle is a group of kids who are also learning to play better. This playing ability transfers to certain careers much better than higher science grades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Google is your friend. Start with articles like these, go to the original research and then to the citations:

https://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/being-a-team-player-why-college-athletes-succeed-in-business

This article is from this year but the research has been available for years. There are more out there. Also plenty of articles simply linking career and sports success.

The research for this particular article shows that team sports players admitted with lower gpas than average outperform peers. (In contrast, individual players of wealthy sports, indicating a wealthy background, only leads to a slight career advantage).

Your link is about college sports. The vast majority of kids playing sports in elementary school (this forum) won’t make it that far in their chosen sport.

It’s interesting, but I do wonder if the crop of kids who become collegiate athletes is fundamentally different. Your take away may be overly broad.

So find the other ones. Deloitte had one about women leaders and sports. There have been countless studies on sports.

Did you study an instrument? What did you learn? Precision? Perfectionism?

There is a lot of work that does not require precision or perfectionism. It does require knowing how to be a team captain, playing on a team to win, motivating a team, coaching a team. You won’t learn this in science class.

Hey, just for the record I want to state that for many kids, playing an instrument is a great way to learn a lot of skills besides precision and perfectionism. Playing in an ensemble or orchestra is absolutely a team activity. You literally have to be aware of every other member of your group at all times, and follow your leader to do your part. These kids work hard to take a piece of music and each contribute their own effort to make a whole.

What I’m saying is that there are a lot of ways to learn the value of teamwork and effort, and it’s OK if some groups prefer one over another!

That’s an interesting premise and even mentioned in the working paper as an area to be studied: how do other extracurriculars align with career progression? No one said sports or nothing. I would say there’s a big difference between learning to play a piece perfectly as an ensemble and learning to win and lose as a team, but I have never done a comparison.

Just look at corporate lingo and how much of it is borrowed from sports. The kids who have played have a deep understanding of these concepts.

I get what you're saying, but a lot of these guys (and yes, it's mostly guys) are giving Al Bundy, not Tom Brady. It's embarrassing that they still talk like 20-year-old bros. We can pick up team analogies just fine without sports experience, thanks.

No one’s saying you have to do it. No one’s saying someone who doesn’t play sports can’t get the analogies. In fact my own kids are dropping their team sports. They’ll understand the analogies fine.

The analogies come from sports because of the similarities between playing a game and playing in business. Harvard shows college athletes have a leg up because of the transferable skills help them play better. There’s a big difference between college athletics and rec soccer. Somewhere in the middle is a group of kids who are also learning to play better. This playing ability transfers to certain careers much better than higher science grades.

My own Asian culture is conformist and linear. People in my native country try to rank what is the better and worse approach.

America is a big country. There are many approaches that can lead to success (this is also true of my native country but in a different way). It can be difficult to understand from someone who comes from a rigid, narrow, linear system. There’s no one right way to do things. But there are better and worse outcomes. That can lead to a feeling of insecurity. Don’t let your insecurity influence you too much. Instead, figure out what’s right for your kid. If that’s science, math, engineering and music, regardless of your race, that’s great.

If your kids want to take a different path, maybe try to ask questions and learn. That other part might not be familiar but might be ok.

If your kids don’t, then don’t worry about it.

[Anonymous]

Sports is great for learning the discipline and collaboration you need to be successful in a career and because it also involves physical activity, arguably a better way to spend time outside of school than just more academics.

That said, I agree that it is a bit out of hand. Everyone’s lives revolve around it. It takes a big toll on social availability and being able to go to family events and that sort of thing.

[Anonymous]

Well rounded, social people function well in the world, and are mentally healthy. It promotes the grassroots democracy that is the engine of civilization growth.

It's part of what America has the greatest success in the worldz despite one fifth the population of China.
We don't need 500 people learning to behave identically in unison for every single thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I send my kids to Jewish day school and there is no obsession over sports. Focus is very much on academics. Perhaps our cultures have that in common!

In public schools, sports are very competitive and taken very seriously. Not a bad thing, just different cultures. Might also be a factor that the public schools are bigger, there is a greater number of talented athletes and making a team is more competitive.

I sent my kid to Jewish day school BECAUSE of the commitment to sports.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Google is your friend. Start with articles like these, go to the original research and then to the citations:

https://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/being-a-team-player-why-college-athletes-succeed-in-business

This article is from this year but the research has been available for years. There are more out there. Also plenty of articles simply linking career and sports success.

The research for this particular article shows that team sports players admitted with lower gpas than average outperform peers. (In contrast, individual players of wealthy sports, indicating a wealthy background, only leads to a slight career advantage).

Your link is about college sports. The vast majority of kids playing sports in elementary school (this forum) won’t make it that far in their chosen sport.

It’s interesting, but I do wonder if the crop of kids who become collegiate athletes is fundamentally different. Your take away may be overly broad.

So find the other ones. Deloitte had one about women leaders and sports. There have been countless studies on sports.

Did you study an instrument? What did you learn? Precision? Perfectionism?

There is a lot of work that does not require precision or perfectionism. It does require knowing how to be a team captain, playing on a team to win, motivating a team, coaching a team. You won’t learn this in science class.

You will learn it on Science Bowl team.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Google is your friend. Start with articles like these, go to the original research and then to the citations:

https://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/being-a-team-player-why-college-athletes-succeed-in-business

This article is from this year but the research has been available for years. There are more out there. Also plenty of articles simply linking career and sports success.

The research for this particular article shows that team sports players admitted with lower gpas than average outperform peers. (In contrast, individual players of wealthy sports, indicating a wealthy background, only leads to a slight career advantage).

Your link is about college sports. The vast majority of kids playing sports in elementary school (this forum) won’t make it that far in their chosen sport.

It’s interesting, but I do wonder if the crop of kids who become collegiate athletes is fundamentally different. Your take away may be overly broad.

So find the other ones. Deloitte had one about women leaders and sports. There have been countless studies on sports.

Did you study an instrument? What did you learn? Precision? Perfectionism?

There is a lot of work that does not require precision or perfectionism. It does require knowing how to be a team captain, playing on a team to win, motivating a team, coaching a team. You won’t learn this in science class.

You will learn it on Science Bowl team.

Or World of Warcraft.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m a first gen Asian immigrant and have a middle schooler and elementary schooler. I grew up in Asia and moved here as an adult. In the course of raising my kids, I’ ve gotten to know people from various ethnicity and races. My immigrant friends from India, china, Korea, Nigeria, Pakistan, Ghana all have one thing in common in that doing well academically is valued. Some of these cultures values sports but it’s only pursued seriously if the child has a tremendous level of motivation and talent. Otherwise, sports is something you do for fun and stay active. We’re unlikely to spend $$ and time pursuing travel sports or private coaching etc for an average kid.
As I interact with white colleagues, especially at work, their life revolves around sports. They coach multiple kids teams, 2 year olds are ice rinks over the weekend learning to skate. The level of rigor and commitment amazed me.
I ask this from a place of curiosity and not judgement - why is the cultural importance of sports higher than academics in the American society? I mean, an above average soccer player has zero prospects in soccer while an above average engineer can make 6 digits right out of school. Can you help me understand?

Wealthy, successful people have time to pursue "leisure" activities that take effort, and have a personality, because they aren't desperately grasping at ranking 0.1% higher to break into a civil service job

[Anonymous]

I am a white mom of 3 kids. One has had an apparent high level aptitude for sports from a very young age. He now plays a travel sport in addition to rec sports scattered throughout the year. He really likes it and a lot of his friends do it so why not? He does well in school and helps around the house so it’s not taking away from anything.

My other 2 kids are run of the mill as far as sports. They rotate through various rec level stuff (karate, soccer, etc.). It’s for the exercise and learning to be part of a team.

Also, DH and I were athletes when we were younger so we get the importance of setting good habits for exercise at a young age.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a white mom of 3 kids. One has had an apparent high level aptitude for sports from a very young age. He now plays a travel sport in addition to rec sports scattered throughout the year. He really likes it and a lot of his friends do it so why not? He does well in school and helps around the house so it’s not taking away from anything.

My other 2 kids are run of the mill as far as sports. They rotate through various rec level stuff (karate, soccer, etc.). It’s for the exercise and learning to be part of a team.

Also, DH and I were athletes when we were younger so we get the importance of setting good habits for exercise at a young age.

Also I will add that my kids’ extracurricular sports also have a lot of Asian, Black, and Hispanic kids participating. Some of those parents can be super intense about sports too. I think this is more of an American thing than just a white person thing (so first gen immigrants may be less likely to participate in it at first).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a cultural anthropologust and 2nd gen south asian. also from a former british colony and cultuvating a healthy bidy/mind playing sports was important as a hobby and social lubricant (playing tennis is good fofr beuiness type of mindset). It is easily observable when you go to any sort of corporate retreat etc how the people who are rain maker status partners etc also were on team sports. You can see the same sk9ills uised on teh field to cooperate, communicate worldelssly and be in symch with your team being played out while working. people who havent had a chance to develop those social skills that are focused pn a team effort to win are at a loss when confrnted with a team who has those skills either in a courtroom or in a conference room. In many ways team sports are wargames and America is a very martial nation, that is how we made our bones and how we operate, so not understanding that will limit your capacity to make your own goals.

YES! Tons of the rainmakers at my law firm were D1 athletes.

And OP, cut it out with the "I'm not judging, I'm just curious." You are judging. And that's fine. I am judging you for putting your kid in math enrichment classes every afternoon. I'm pretty sure my kids are enjoying their sports practices a heckuva lot more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How about the asian obsession with having their kids play an instrument?

So true. Asians are good at parroting white people music but cannot come up with anything on their own.

That’s just racist bro

Classical music competitions are being swept by Korean and Chinese educated musicians. If you knew anything about music performance, you wouldn't call it parroting. If you've been following piano competitions like Van Cliburn & International Chopin competition, or strings competitions like Menuhin, or... you know, just been to top classical performances, you know what I'm talking about. They are absolutely mopping the floor with us. Symphony orchestras continue to be dominated by white players because, you know, racist quotas.