Differences in rigor - AP classes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am in NYC, so maybe it is different elsewhere in the country. But there is SO much difference in rigor between various schools, especially in AP classes. My older kid goes to a selective school where the AP classes involve mountains of homework, and the level of teaching assumes every kid will get a 5 on the test (most do). Taking more than 4 APs per year is practically a death sentence, though there are always kids who do it to chase Ivies. My younger kid goes to a school where the AP classes are more challenging than non, but only slightly. There's test re-takes and tons of extra credit available, so a reasonable amount of effort is basically a guaranteed A grade. A course load of 4 - 5 APs is a relative breeze. Of course, most kids get 2's, if they even take the tests, since they clearly aren't prepared. Ironically, younger kids' school does very well with college placements, probably bc of the APs. But it honestly doesn't seem fair for colleges to view these AP classes as equivalent - objectively, they aren't. The same curriculum can look very difference in practice. Thoughts?

So, why does one kid go to a good school and the other a shitty school?

Your scenario sounds contrived to spur debate.

I’m not OP, but like OP I have one kid at each kind of school. They’re at different schools because DC1’s school is selective, and DC2 didn’t get in.

That’s why it’s impossible to say what’s “fair.” True, DC1 works much harder than DC2 for the same grade in what is nominally the same class. That doesn’t seem fair. But DC2 doesn’t even have the opportunity to take the more rigorous classes, and that doesn’t seem fair either.

I just don’t know anyone in NYC that sends their kid to a local public HS. They go selective or charter or private.

I mean nobody…no one..zero. It’s the equivalent of someone saying I send one kid in DC to Walls and the other to Anacostia High. That family doesn’t exist.

I'm in NY. Not sure what you mean by charter. Brooklyn Prospect? Success Academy? We dont have many charters, and they're not in demand.

But PLENTY go public. Never mind the SHS schools like Stuy and Bronx Sci and Laguardia. Here are regular public schools - go ahead and look up their college placement. Eleanor Roosevelt. NEST, Columbia Secondary, Beacon. Lab. Clinton. Townsend Harris. Baruch, Manhattan Hunter, Special Music School, The Bards (Manhattan, Brooklyn, Bronx), Frank Sinatra, Museum, Hunter, ischool, Millennium, Dual Lang/Asian Affairs, SOF, Bacc School ... on and on

I won’t look them all up but the first one you list (Eleanor Roosevelt) has an entire application and admissions process with priority given to kids that meet academic screening.

That doesn’t sound like a school you just walk in and register for, nor does it sound like a school where all the kids get a 1 or 2 on the AP tests.

But that's not school works in NYC. You can't just walk into ANY high school and register your kid. That ends for us in grade school (5th). We have a middle school application process (limited to your district, but our districts are big - this is when most kids start commuting via subway to school). And then our high school application process is citywide. You have an academic "tier" based on grades and then a RAN (random assigned number aka lottery number). You get some preference if you're SWD or ELL or are very very low income. You also have an Ed Opt category.

Some schools want essays, some schools don't look at tiers (Beacon, one of the best, is essay only), some only look at Ed Opt (so take equal high, medium, low levels of kids .. so yes, kids who get 1s on APs are in same school as some of the best students), some want a portfolio or audition. You rank your choices and then you hope to get placed in one of your top options.

If you move to NYC while your kids are in high school, you still can't just walk in and register. That's not EVER a thing. You go to a Family Welcome Center and you get placed in whatever school has seats.

So when you say "I mean nobody…no one..zero. It’s the equivalent of someone saying I send one kid in DC to Walls and the other to Anacostia High. That family doesn’t exist." that's 100% bullshit. You clearly know nothing about how the system works or who attends public school. Thousands of kids who end up in top colleges are in very strong public schools in nyc.

I was 100% correct that any person that cares about their kid sends them to an application high school that doesn’t have kids getting 1s and 2s on AP tests.

So, you agree OP is full of shit and making up their scenario, right?

Nobody is placing their kid into shitty PS 35 whatever in NYC.

that would be a grade school, know-nothing. any *everyone* in a public nyc high school is in an "application high school". we have an application process for ALL high schools.

it's okay that you dont know anything about this. it is. just stop talking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What matters for your kid is what they learn and how prepared they are.

What matters for admissions most is how your kid does compared to the rest of his class. If nearly everyone has a 4.0, that dilutes the power of the 4.0, but it also makes a GPA significantly less than 4.0 look worse. Similarly if most of the class gets 5s and yours didn't that not great, but if few get 5s and yours did, that looks good. And so on...

Nope. A HS is a non-poor area: MC-UMC with a low AP score profile but lots of 4.0s is frowned on by AOs. It means the kids are to related and school was low rigor.

They get score profiles. Our private, as told to me by an AO, has a very high profile and schools know it’s rigorous. Private- not big 3

[Anonymous]

^ lot of weird autocorrects

“Kids aren’t prepared and school was low rigor “

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am in NYC, so maybe it is different elsewhere in the country. But there is SO much difference in rigor between various schools, especially in AP classes. My older kid goes to a selective school where the AP classes involve mountains of homework, and the level of teaching assumes every kid will get a 5 on the test (most do). Taking more than 4 APs per year is practically a death sentence, though there are always kids who do it to chase Ivies. My younger kid goes to a school where the AP classes are more challenging than non, but only slightly. There's test re-takes and tons of extra credit available, so a reasonable amount of effort is basically a guaranteed A grade. A course load of 4 - 5 APs is a relative breeze. Of course, most kids get 2's, if they even take the tests, since they clearly aren't prepared. Ironically, younger kids' school does very well with college placements, probably bc of the APs. But it honestly doesn't seem fair for colleges to view these AP classes as equivalent - objectively, they aren't. The same curriculum can look very difference in practice. Thoughts?

So, why does one kid go to a good school and the other a shitty school?

Your scenario sounds contrived to spur debate.

I’m not OP, but like OP I have one kid at each kind of school. They’re at different schools because DC1’s school is selective, and DC2 didn’t get in.

That’s why it’s impossible to say what’s “fair.” True, DC1 works much harder than DC2 for the same grade in what is nominally the same class. That doesn’t seem fair. But DC2 doesn’t even have the opportunity to take the more rigorous classes, and that doesn’t seem fair either.

I just don’t know anyone in NYC that sends their kid to a local public HS. They go selective or charter or private.

I mean nobody…no one..zero. It’s the equivalent of someone saying I send one kid in DC to Walls and the other to Anacostia High. That family doesn’t exist.

I'm in NY. Not sure what you mean by charter. Brooklyn Prospect? Success Academy? We dont have many charters, and they're not in demand.

But PLENTY go public. Never mind the SHS schools like Stuy and Bronx Sci and Laguardia. Here are regular public schools - go ahead and look up their college placement. Eleanor Roosevelt. NEST, Columbia Secondary, Beacon. Lab. Clinton. Townsend Harris. Baruch, Manhattan Hunter, Special Music School, The Bards (Manhattan, Brooklyn, Bronx), Frank Sinatra, Museum, Hunter, ischool, Millennium, Dual Lang/Asian Affairs, SOF, Bacc School ... on and on

I won’t look them all up but the first one you list (Eleanor Roosevelt) has an entire application and admissions process with priority given to kids that meet academic screening.

That doesn’t sound like a school you just walk in and register for, nor does it sound like a school where all the kids get a 1 or 2 on the AP tests.

But that's not school works in NYC. You can't just walk into ANY high school and register your kid. That ends for us in grade school (5th). We have a middle school application process (limited to your district, but our districts are big - this is when most kids start commuting via subway to school). And then our high school application process is citywide. You have an academic "tier" based on grades and then a RAN (random assigned number aka lottery number). You get some preference if you're SWD or ELL or are very very low income. You also have an Ed Opt category.

Some schools want essays, some schools don't look at tiers (Beacon, one of the best, is essay only), some only look at Ed Opt (so take equal high, medium, low levels of kids .. so yes, kids who get 1s on APs are in same school as some of the best students), some want a portfolio or audition. You rank your choices and then you hope to get placed in one of your top options.

If you move to NYC while your kids are in high school, you still can't just walk in and register. That's not EVER a thing. You go to a Family Welcome Center and you get placed in whatever school has seats.

So when you say "I mean nobody…no one..zero. It’s the equivalent of someone saying I send one kid in DC to Walls and the other to Anacostia High. That family doesn’t exist." that's 100% bullshit. You clearly know nothing about how the system works or who attends public school. Thousands of kids who end up in top colleges are in very strong public schools in nyc.

I was 100% correct that any person that cares about their kid sends them to an application high school that doesn’t have kids getting 1s and 2s on AP tests.

So, you agree OP is full of shit and making up their scenario, right?

Nobody is placing their kid into shitty PS 35 whatever in NYC.

I am OP. New York City is different. We do not have a "zoned" school. There is a complex HS admissions process that involves tests, lotteries, and/or auditions if your child is artsy. My older child goes to a test-in school that is almost painfully rigorous. My younger one did not pass that test, and is in a lottery school that is known to be "nice" - supportive, families who generally care about education - but is not at all rigorous. Parents openly complain that their kids do not pass the AP tests - of course some do, but the level of teaching and learning simply isn't comparable. I would be surprised if kids are getting 4's and 5's without any outside tutoring.

Having 2 kids in very different schools is not an uncommon scenario at all in NYC, I realize it is different elsewhere in the country.

[Anonymous]

the difference btw schools where kids get 4s and 5s and schools where *some* kids get a 1 or 2 is usually the schools testing policy.

some high schools require everyone to take the tests. some let you opt in. you only opt in if you know you can do well.

as a highly paid person with a pointy skill base/career - I'd get a 1 or 2 on half the AP exams. 2/3rds if you include languages. and a 5 on a third of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand why it’s so hard for some of you to believe that many families send different kids to different schools with different levels of rigor. One at GDS and the other at Field? One at Walls and the other at JR? One at RMIB and the other at BCC? One at TJ and the other at … some neighborhood high school in FCPS? This sort of thing happens all the time. And even when both schools are selective, as with two privates or two magnets, it is common for one to be more selective than the other.

THIS. It happens all the time. I know twins who were split between Jackson Reed and Sidwell. I had this dynamic in my own house for a few years (one twin in public, one in private) but we ended up moving twin 2 to a private for high school. I know 2 other sets of twins who are split between a "Big3" private and another, lower tier private. I know at least a dozen siblings who are split by public/charter and private (some Big3, some not).

Parents choose schools by fit. They also let their kids have a say where they attend school by high school. And there really isn't a "universally best option" out there.

Is everyone dense today? It’s not about sending kids to different schools it’s sending kids to one great school and sending the other kid to a school that in OP’s words “most kids get 1s and 2s”.

well that would be the Jackson Reed and private split and there are a ton of parents who do that.

No it isn’t. Most JR kids get a 3 or above (with more 4s and 5s than 3s).

So why would you post an outright lie?

Most JR kids get a 3+ on at least one AP. But that “most” includes a kid who takes five APs and scores 1, 2, 2, 2, 3.

Provide the link to your data.

By the way…the AP pass rate is now 73%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am in NYC, so maybe it is different elsewhere in the country. But there is SO much difference in rigor between various schools, especially in AP classes. My older kid goes to a selective school where the AP classes involve mountains of homework, and the level of teaching assumes every kid will get a 5 on the test (most do). Taking more than 4 APs per year is practically a death sentence, though there are always kids who do it to chase Ivies. My younger kid goes to a school where the AP classes are more challenging than non, but only slightly. There's test re-takes and tons of extra credit available, so a reasonable amount of effort is basically a guaranteed A grade. A course load of 4 - 5 APs is a relative breeze. Of course, most kids get 2's, if they even take the tests, since they clearly aren't prepared. Ironically, younger kids' school does very well with college placements, probably bc of the APs. But it honestly doesn't seem fair for colleges to view these AP classes as equivalent - objectively, they aren't. The same curriculum can look very difference in practice. Thoughts?

So, why does one kid go to a good school and the other a shitty school?

Your scenario sounds contrived to spur debate.

I’m not OP, but like OP I have one kid at each kind of school. They’re at different schools because DC1’s school is selective, and DC2 didn’t get in.

That’s why it’s impossible to say what’s “fair.” True, DC1 works much harder than DC2 for the same grade in what is nominally the same class. That doesn’t seem fair. But DC2 doesn’t even have the opportunity to take the more rigorous classes, and that doesn’t seem fair either.

I just don’t know anyone in NYC that sends their kid to a local public HS. They go selective or charter or private.

I mean nobody…no one..zero. It’s the equivalent of someone saying I send one kid in DC to Walls and the other to Anacostia High. That family doesn’t exist.

I'm in NY. Not sure what you mean by charter. Brooklyn Prospect? Success Academy? We dont have many charters, and they're not in demand.

But PLENTY go public. Never mind the SHS schools like Stuy and Bronx Sci and Laguardia. Here are regular public schools - go ahead and look up their college placement. Eleanor Roosevelt. NEST, Columbia Secondary, Beacon. Lab. Clinton. Townsend Harris. Baruch, Manhattan Hunter, Special Music School, The Bards (Manhattan, Brooklyn, Bronx), Frank Sinatra, Museum, Hunter, ischool, Millennium, Dual Lang/Asian Affairs, SOF, Bacc School ... on and on

I won’t look them all up but the first one you list (Eleanor Roosevelt) has an entire application and admissions process with priority given to kids that meet academic screening.

That doesn’t sound like a school you just walk in and register for, nor does it sound like a school where all the kids get a 1 or 2 on the AP tests.

But that's not school works in NYC. You can't just walk into ANY high school and register your kid. That ends for us in grade school (5th). We have a middle school application process (limited to your district, but our districts are big - this is when most kids start commuting via subway to school). And then our high school application process is citywide. You have an academic "tier" based on grades and then a RAN (random assigned number aka lottery number). You get some preference if you're SWD or ELL or are very very low income. You also have an Ed Opt category.

Some schools want essays, some schools don't look at tiers (Beacon, one of the best, is essay only), some only look at Ed Opt (so take equal high, medium, low levels of kids .. so yes, kids who get 1s on APs are in same school as some of the best students), some want a portfolio or audition. You rank your choices and then you hope to get placed in one of your top options.

If you move to NYC while your kids are in high school, you still can't just walk in and register. That's not EVER a thing. You go to a Family Welcome Center and you get placed in whatever school has seats.

So when you say "I mean nobody…no one..zero. It’s the equivalent of someone saying I send one kid in DC to Walls and the other to Anacostia High. That family doesn’t exist." that's 100% bullshit. You clearly know nothing about how the system works or who attends public school. Thousands of kids who end up in top colleges are in very strong public schools in nyc.

I was 100% correct that any person that cares about their kid sends them to an application high school that doesn’t have kids getting 1s and 2s on AP tests.

So, you agree OP is full of shit and making up their scenario, right?

Nobody is placing their kid into shitty PS 35 whatever in NYC.

I am OP. New York City is different. We do not have a "zoned" school. There is a complex HS admissions process that involves tests, lotteries, and/or auditions if your child is artsy. My older child goes to a test-in school that is almost painfully rigorous. My younger one did not pass that test, and is in a lottery school that is known to be "nice" - supportive, families who generally care about education - but is not at all rigorous. Parents openly complain that their kids do not pass the AP tests - of course some do, but the level of teaching and learning simply isn't comparable. I would be surprised if kids are getting 4's and 5's without any outside tutoring.

Having 2 kids in very different schools is not an uncommon scenario at all in NYC, I realize it is different elsewhere in the country.

Anyway, it seems kind of wild to me that colleges take on face value that getting A's in an AP class is the same from school to school. They use SAT scores as a check on grade inflation to an extent, but don't use AP scores the same way - why not?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am in NYC, so maybe it is different elsewhere in the country. But there is SO much difference in rigor between various schools, especially in AP classes. My older kid goes to a selective school where the AP classes involve mountains of homework, and the level of teaching assumes every kid will get a 5 on the test (most do). Taking more than 4 APs per year is practically a death sentence, though there are always kids who do it to chase Ivies. My younger kid goes to a school where the AP classes are more challenging than non, but only slightly. There's test re-takes and tons of extra credit available, so a reasonable amount of effort is basically a guaranteed A grade. A course load of 4 - 5 APs is a relative breeze. Of course, most kids get 2's, if they even take the tests, since they clearly aren't prepared. Ironically, younger kids' school does very well with college placements, probably bc of the APs. But it honestly doesn't seem fair for colleges to view these AP classes as equivalent - objectively, they aren't. The same curriculum can look very difference in practice. Thoughts?

So, why does one kid go to a good school and the other a shitty school?

Your scenario sounds contrived to spur debate.

I’m not OP, but like OP I have one kid at each kind of school. They’re at different schools because DC1’s school is selective, and DC2 didn’t get in.

That’s why it’s impossible to say what’s “fair.” True, DC1 works much harder than DC2 for the same grade in what is nominally the same class. That doesn’t seem fair. But DC2 doesn’t even have the opportunity to take the more rigorous classes, and that doesn’t seem fair either.

I just don’t know anyone in NYC that sends their kid to a local public HS. They go selective or charter or private.

I mean nobody…no one..zero. It’s the equivalent of someone saying I send one kid in DC to Walls and the other to Anacostia High. That family doesn’t exist.

I'm in NY. Not sure what you mean by charter. Brooklyn Prospect? Success Academy? We dont have many charters, and they're not in demand.

But PLENTY go public. Never mind the SHS schools like Stuy and Bronx Sci and Laguardia. Here are regular public schools - go ahead and look up their college placement. Eleanor Roosevelt. NEST, Columbia Secondary, Beacon. Lab. Clinton. Townsend Harris. Baruch, Manhattan Hunter, Special Music School, The Bards (Manhattan, Brooklyn, Bronx), Frank Sinatra, Museum, Hunter, ischool, Millennium, Dual Lang/Asian Affairs, SOF, Bacc School ... on and on

I won’t look them all up but the first one you list (Eleanor Roosevelt) has an entire application and admissions process with priority given to kids that meet academic screening.

That doesn’t sound like a school you just walk in and register for, nor does it sound like a school where all the kids get a 1 or 2 on the AP tests.

But that's not school works in NYC. You can't just walk into ANY high school and register your kid. That ends for us in grade school (5th). We have a middle school application process (limited to your district, but our districts are big - this is when most kids start commuting via subway to school). And then our high school application process is citywide. You have an academic "tier" based on grades and then a RAN (random assigned number aka lottery number). You get some preference if you're SWD or ELL or are very very low income. You also have an Ed Opt category.

Some schools want essays, some schools don't look at tiers (Beacon, one of the best, is essay only), some only look at Ed Opt (so take equal high, medium, low levels of kids .. so yes, kids who get 1s on APs are in same school as some of the best students), some want a portfolio or audition. You rank your choices and then you hope to get placed in one of your top options.

If you move to NYC while your kids are in high school, you still can't just walk in and register. That's not EVER a thing. You go to a Family Welcome Center and you get placed in whatever school has seats.

So when you say "I mean nobody…no one..zero. It’s the equivalent of someone saying I send one kid in DC to Walls and the other to Anacostia High. That family doesn’t exist." that's 100% bullshit. You clearly know nothing about how the system works or who attends public school. Thousands of kids who end up in top colleges are in very strong public schools in nyc.

I was 100% correct that any person that cares about their kid sends them to an application high school that doesn’t have kids getting 1s and 2s on AP tests.

So, you agree OP is full of shit and making up their scenario, right?

Nobody is placing their kid into shitty PS 35 whatever in NYC.

that would be a grade school, know-nothing. any *everyone* in a public nyc high school is in an "application high school". we have an application process for ALL high schools.

it's okay that you dont know anything about this. it is. just stop talking.

Uhh…no it isn’t…do a google search right now…then report back apologizing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand why it’s so hard for some of you to believe that many families send different kids to different schools with different levels of rigor. One at GDS and the other at Field? One at Walls and the other at JR? One at RMIB and the other at BCC? One at TJ and the other at … some neighborhood high school in FCPS? This sort of thing happens all the time. And even when both schools are selective, as with two privates or two magnets, it is common for one to be more selective than the other.

THIS. It happens all the time. I know twins who were split between Jackson Reed and Sidwell. I had this dynamic in my own house for a few years (one twin in public, one in private) but we ended up moving twin 2 to a private for high school. I know 2 other sets of twins who are split between a "Big3" private and another, lower tier private. I know at least a dozen siblings who are split by public/charter and private (some Big3, some not).

Parents choose schools by fit. They also let their kids have a say where they attend school by high school. And there really isn't a "universally best option" out there.

Is everyone dense today? It’s not about sending kids to different schools it’s sending kids to one great school and sending the other kid to a school that in OP’s words “most kids get 1s and 2s”.

well that would be the Jackson Reed and private split and there are a ton of parents who do that.

No it isn’t. Most JR kids get a 3 or above (with more 4s and 5s than 3s).

So why would you post an outright lie?

This is not true. Many AP classes have less than half the class getting a 3 or above.

You are the one lying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand why it’s so hard for some of you to believe that many families send different kids to different schools with different levels of rigor. One at GDS and the other at Field? One at Walls and the other at JR? One at RMIB and the other at BCC? One at TJ and the other at … some neighborhood high school in FCPS? This sort of thing happens all the time. And even when both schools are selective, as with two privates or two magnets, it is common for one to be more selective than the other.

THIS. It happens all the time. I know twins who were split between Jackson Reed and Sidwell. I had this dynamic in my own house for a few years (one twin in public, one in private) but we ended up moving twin 2 to a private for high school. I know 2 other sets of twins who are split between a "Big3" private and another, lower tier private. I know at least a dozen siblings who are split by public/charter and private (some Big3, some not).

Parents choose schools by fit. They also let their kids have a say where they attend school by high school. And there really isn't a "universally best option" out there.

Is everyone dense today? It’s not about sending kids to different schools it’s sending kids to one great school and sending the other kid to a school that in OP’s words “most kids get 1s and 2s”.

well that would be the Jackson Reed and private split and there are a ton of parents who do that.

No it isn’t. Most JR kids get a 3 or above (with more 4s and 5s than 3s).

So why would you post an outright lie?

This is not true. Many AP classes have less than half the class getting a 3 or above.

You are the one lying.

Show the link to the data.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am in NYC, so maybe it is different elsewhere in the country. But there is SO much difference in rigor between various schools, especially in AP classes. My older kid goes to a selective school where the AP classes involve mountains of homework, and the level of teaching assumes every kid will get a 5 on the test (most do). Taking more than 4 APs per year is practically a death sentence, though there are always kids who do it to chase Ivies. My younger kid goes to a school where the AP classes are more challenging than non, but only slightly. There's test re-takes and tons of extra credit available, so a reasonable amount of effort is basically a guaranteed A grade. A course load of 4 - 5 APs is a relative breeze. Of course, most kids get 2's, if they even take the tests, since they clearly aren't prepared. Ironically, younger kids' school does very well with college placements, probably bc of the APs. But it honestly doesn't seem fair for colleges to view these AP classes as equivalent - objectively, they aren't. The same curriculum can look very difference in practice. Thoughts?

So, why does one kid go to a good school and the other a shitty school?

Your scenario sounds contrived to spur debate.

I’m not OP, but like OP I have one kid at each kind of school. They’re at different schools because DC1’s school is selective, and DC2 didn’t get in.

That’s why it’s impossible to say what’s “fair.” True, DC1 works much harder than DC2 for the same grade in what is nominally the same class. That doesn’t seem fair. But DC2 doesn’t even have the opportunity to take the more rigorous classes, and that doesn’t seem fair either.

I just don’t know anyone in NYC that sends their kid to a local public HS. They go selective or charter or private.

I mean nobody…no one..zero. It’s the equivalent of someone saying I send one kid in DC to Walls and the other to Anacostia High. That family doesn’t exist.

I'm in NY. Not sure what you mean by charter. Brooklyn Prospect? Success Academy? We dont have many charters, and they're not in demand.

But PLENTY go public. Never mind the SHS schools like Stuy and Bronx Sci and Laguardia. Here are regular public schools - go ahead and look up their college placement. Eleanor Roosevelt. NEST, Columbia Secondary, Beacon. Lab. Clinton. Townsend Harris. Baruch, Manhattan Hunter, Special Music School, The Bards (Manhattan, Brooklyn, Bronx), Frank Sinatra, Museum, Hunter, ischool, Millennium, Dual Lang/Asian Affairs, SOF, Bacc School ... on and on

I won’t look them all up but the first one you list (Eleanor Roosevelt) has an entire application and admissions process with priority given to kids that meet academic screening.

That doesn’t sound like a school you just walk in and register for, nor does it sound like a school where all the kids get a 1 or 2 on the AP tests.

But that's not school works in NYC. You can't just walk into ANY high school and register your kid. That ends for us in grade school (5th). We have a middle school application process (limited to your district, but our districts are big - this is when most kids start commuting via subway to school). And then our high school application process is citywide. You have an academic "tier" based on grades and then a RAN (random assigned number aka lottery number). You get some preference if you're SWD or ELL or are very very low income. You also have an Ed Opt category.

Some schools want essays, some schools don't look at tiers (Beacon, one of the best, is essay only), some only look at Ed Opt (so take equal high, medium, low levels of kids .. so yes, kids who get 1s on APs are in same school as some of the best students), some want a portfolio or audition. You rank your choices and then you hope to get placed in one of your top options.

If you move to NYC while your kids are in high school, you still can't just walk in and register. That's not EVER a thing. You go to a Family Welcome Center and you get placed in whatever school has seats.

So when you say "I mean nobody…no one..zero. It’s the equivalent of someone saying I send one kid in DC to Walls and the other to Anacostia High. That family doesn’t exist." that's 100% bullshit. You clearly know nothing about how the system works or who attends public school. Thousands of kids who end up in top colleges are in very strong public schools in nyc.

I was 100% correct that any person that cares about their kid sends them to an application high school that doesn’t have kids getting 1s and 2s on AP tests.

So, you agree OP is full of shit and making up their scenario, right?

Nobody is placing their kid into shitty PS 35 whatever in NYC.

that would be a grade school, know-nothing. any *everyone* in a public nyc high school is in an "application high school". we have an application process for ALL high schools.

it's okay that you dont know anything about this. it is. just stop talking.

Uhh…no it isn’t…do a google search right now…then report back apologizing.

I live in nyc. It's 100% true that we have a complication high school admissions process. Every high school requires you to go through the process. They have varied rubrics ,but they all require it. You can't just walk in a register. (you can if you move to town mid-year - you have to go to the FWC in your borough and you get assigned a school w seats. But that's the only way of getting in without applying)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am in NYC, so maybe it is different elsewhere in the country. But there is SO much difference in rigor between various schools, especially in AP classes. My older kid goes to a selective school where the AP classes involve mountains of homework, and the level of teaching assumes every kid will get a 5 on the test (most do). Taking more than 4 APs per year is practically a death sentence, though there are always kids who do it to chase Ivies. My younger kid goes to a school where the AP classes are more challenging than non, but only slightly. There's test re-takes and tons of extra credit available, so a reasonable amount of effort is basically a guaranteed A grade. A course load of 4 - 5 APs is a relative breeze. Of course, most kids get 2's, if they even take the tests, since they clearly aren't prepared. Ironically, younger kids' school does very well with college placements, probably bc of the APs. But it honestly doesn't seem fair for colleges to view these AP classes as equivalent - objectively, they aren't. The same curriculum can look very difference in practice. Thoughts?

So, why does one kid go to a good school and the other a shitty school?

Your scenario sounds contrived to spur debate.

I’m not OP, but like OP I have one kid at each kind of school. They’re at different schools because DC1’s school is selective, and DC2 didn’t get in.

That’s why it’s impossible to say what’s “fair.” True, DC1 works much harder than DC2 for the same grade in what is nominally the same class. That doesn’t seem fair. But DC2 doesn’t even have the opportunity to take the more rigorous classes, and that doesn’t seem fair either.

I just don’t know anyone in NYC that sends their kid to a local public HS. They go selective or charter or private.

I mean nobody…no one..zero. It’s the equivalent of someone saying I send one kid in DC to Walls and the other to Anacostia High. That family doesn’t exist.

I'm in NY. Not sure what you mean by charter. Brooklyn Prospect? Success Academy? We dont have many charters, and they're not in demand.

But PLENTY go public. Never mind the SHS schools like Stuy and Bronx Sci and Laguardia. Here are regular public schools - go ahead and look up their college placement. Eleanor Roosevelt. NEST, Columbia Secondary, Beacon. Lab. Clinton. Townsend Harris. Baruch, Manhattan Hunter, Special Music School, The Bards (Manhattan, Brooklyn, Bronx), Frank Sinatra, Museum, Hunter, ischool, Millennium, Dual Lang/Asian Affairs, SOF, Bacc School ... on and on

I won’t look them all up but the first one you list (Eleanor Roosevelt) has an entire application and admissions process with priority given to kids that meet academic screening.

That doesn’t sound like a school you just walk in and register for, nor does it sound like a school where all the kids get a 1 or 2 on the AP tests.

But that's not school works in NYC. You can't just walk into ANY high school and register your kid. That ends for us in grade school (5th). We have a middle school application process (limited to your district, but our districts are big - this is when most kids start commuting via subway to school). And then our high school application process is citywide. You have an academic "tier" based on grades and then a RAN (random assigned number aka lottery number). You get some preference if you're SWD or ELL or are very very low income. You also have an Ed Opt category.

Some schools want essays, some schools don't look at tiers (Beacon, one of the best, is essay only), some only look at Ed Opt (so take equal high, medium, low levels of kids .. so yes, kids who get 1s on APs are in same school as some of the best students), some want a portfolio or audition. You rank your choices and then you hope to get placed in one of your top options.

If you move to NYC while your kids are in high school, you still can't just walk in and register. That's not EVER a thing. You go to a Family Welcome Center and you get placed in whatever school has seats.

So when you say "I mean nobody…no one..zero. It’s the equivalent of someone saying I send one kid in DC to Walls and the other to Anacostia High. That family doesn’t exist." that's 100% bullshit. You clearly know nothing about how the system works or who attends public school. Thousands of kids who end up in top colleges are in very strong public schools in nyc.

I was 100% correct that any person that cares about their kid sends them to an application high school that doesn’t have kids getting 1s and 2s on AP tests.

So, you agree OP is full of shit and making up their scenario, right?

Nobody is placing their kid into shitty PS 35 whatever in NYC.

I am OP. New York City is different. We do not have a "zoned" school. There is a complex HS admissions process that involves tests, lotteries, and/or auditions if your child is artsy. My older child goes to a test-in school that is almost painfully rigorous. My younger one did not pass that test, and is in a lottery school that is known to be "nice" - supportive, families who generally care about education - but is not at all rigorous. Parents openly complain that their kids do not pass the AP tests - of course some do, but the level of teaching and learning simply isn't comparable. I would be surprised if kids are getting 4's and 5's without any outside tutoring.

Having 2 kids in very different schools is not an uncommon scenario at all in NYC, I realize it is different elsewhere in the country.

Anyway, it seems kind of wild to me that colleges take on face value that getting A's in an AP class is the same from school to school. They use SAT scores as a check on grade inflation to an extent, but don't use AP scores the same way - why not?

I dont get your argument. All classes are graded differently. Even within a school you might get the easy chemistry teacher or the hard one.

APs, at least, have a standardized test that kind of acts like a final exam across schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am in NYC, so maybe it is different elsewhere in the country. But there is SO much difference in rigor between various schools, especially in AP classes. My older kid goes to a selective school where the AP classes involve mountains of homework, and the level of teaching assumes every kid will get a 5 on the test (most do). Taking more than 4 APs per year is practically a death sentence, though there are always kids who do it to chase Ivies. My younger kid goes to a school where the AP classes are more challenging than non, but only slightly. There's test re-takes and tons of extra credit available, so a reasonable amount of effort is basically a guaranteed A grade. A course load of 4 - 5 APs is a relative breeze. Of course, most kids get 2's, if they even take the tests, since they clearly aren't prepared. Ironically, younger kids' school does very well with college placements, probably bc of the APs. But it honestly doesn't seem fair for colleges to view these AP classes as equivalent - objectively, they aren't. The same curriculum can look very difference in practice. Thoughts?

So, why does one kid go to a good school and the other a shitty school?

Your scenario sounds contrived to spur debate.

I’m not OP, but like OP I have one kid at each kind of school. They’re at different schools because DC1’s school is selective, and DC2 didn’t get in.

That’s why it’s impossible to say what’s “fair.” True, DC1 works much harder than DC2 for the same grade in what is nominally the same class. That doesn’t seem fair. But DC2 doesn’t even have the opportunity to take the more rigorous classes, and that doesn’t seem fair either.

I just don’t know anyone in NYC that sends their kid to a local public HS. They go selective or charter or private.

I mean nobody…no one..zero. It’s the equivalent of someone saying I send one kid in DC to Walls and the other to Anacostia High. That family doesn’t exist.

I'm in NY. Not sure what you mean by charter. Brooklyn Prospect? Success Academy? We dont have many charters, and they're not in demand.

But PLENTY go public. Never mind the SHS schools like Stuy and Bronx Sci and Laguardia. Here are regular public schools - go ahead and look up their college placement. Eleanor Roosevelt. NEST, Columbia Secondary, Beacon. Lab. Clinton. Townsend Harris. Baruch, Manhattan Hunter, Special Music School, The Bards (Manhattan, Brooklyn, Bronx), Frank Sinatra, Museum, Hunter, ischool, Millennium, Dual Lang/Asian Affairs, SOF, Bacc School ... on and on

I won’t look them all up but the first one you list (Eleanor Roosevelt) has an entire application and admissions process with priority given to kids that meet academic screening.

That doesn’t sound like a school you just walk in and register for, nor does it sound like a school where all the kids get a 1 or 2 on the AP tests.

But that's not school works in NYC. You can't just walk into ANY high school and register your kid. That ends for us in grade school (5th). We have a middle school application process (limited to your district, but our districts are big - this is when most kids start commuting via subway to school). And then our high school application process is citywide. You have an academic "tier" based on grades and then a RAN (random assigned number aka lottery number). You get some preference if you're SWD or ELL or are very very low income. You also have an Ed Opt category.

Some schools want essays, some schools don't look at tiers (Beacon, one of the best, is essay only), some only look at Ed Opt (so take equal high, medium, low levels of kids .. so yes, kids who get 1s on APs are in same school as some of the best students), some want a portfolio or audition. You rank your choices and then you hope to get placed in one of your top options.

If you move to NYC while your kids are in high school, you still can't just walk in and register. That's not EVER a thing. You go to a Family Welcome Center and you get placed in whatever school has seats.

So when you say "I mean nobody…no one..zero. It’s the equivalent of someone saying I send one kid in DC to Walls and the other to Anacostia High. That family doesn’t exist." that's 100% bullshit. You clearly know nothing about how the system works or who attends public school. Thousands of kids who end up in top colleges are in very strong public schools in nyc.

I was 100% correct that any person that cares about their kid sends them to an application high school that doesn’t have kids getting 1s and 2s on AP tests.

So, you agree OP is full of shit and making up their scenario, right?

Nobody is placing their kid into shitty PS 35 whatever in NYC.

that would be a grade school, know-nothing. any *everyone* in a public nyc high school is in an "application high school". we have an application process for ALL high schools.

it's okay that you dont know anything about this. it is. just stop talking.

Uhh…no it isn’t…do a google search right now…then report back apologizing.

I live in nyc. It's 100% true that we have a complication high school admissions process. Every high school requires you to go through the process. They have varied rubrics ,but they all require it. You can't just walk in a register. (you can if you move to town mid-year - you have to go to the FWC in your borough and you get assigned a school w seats. But that's the only way of getting in without applying)

I was referring to PS35 which is in fact a high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am in NYC, so maybe it is different elsewhere in the country. But there is SO much difference in rigor between various schools, especially in AP classes. My older kid goes to a selective school where the AP classes involve mountains of homework, and the level of teaching assumes every kid will get a 5 on the test (most do). Taking more than 4 APs per year is practically a death sentence, though there are always kids who do it to chase Ivies. My younger kid goes to a school where the AP classes are more challenging than non, but only slightly. There's test re-takes and tons of extra credit available, so a reasonable amount of effort is basically a guaranteed A grade. A course load of 4 - 5 APs is a relative breeze. Of course, most kids get 2's, if they even take the tests, since they clearly aren't prepared. Ironically, younger kids' school does very well with college placements, probably bc of the APs. But it honestly doesn't seem fair for colleges to view these AP classes as equivalent - objectively, they aren't. The same curriculum can look very difference in practice. Thoughts?

So, why does one kid go to a good school and the other a shitty school?

Your scenario sounds contrived to spur debate.

I’m not OP, but like OP I have one kid at each kind of school. They’re at different schools because DC1’s school is selective, and DC2 didn’t get in.

That’s why it’s impossible to say what’s “fair.” True, DC1 works much harder than DC2 for the same grade in what is nominally the same class. That doesn’t seem fair. But DC2 doesn’t even have the opportunity to take the more rigorous classes, and that doesn’t seem fair either.

I just don’t know anyone in NYC that sends their kid to a local public HS. They go selective or charter or private.

I mean nobody…no one..zero. It’s the equivalent of someone saying I send one kid in DC to Walls and the other to Anacostia High. That family doesn’t exist.

I'm in NY. Not sure what you mean by charter. Brooklyn Prospect? Success Academy? We dont have many charters, and they're not in demand.

But PLENTY go public. Never mind the SHS schools like Stuy and Bronx Sci and Laguardia. Here are regular public schools - go ahead and look up their college placement. Eleanor Roosevelt. NEST, Columbia Secondary, Beacon. Lab. Clinton. Townsend Harris. Baruch, Manhattan Hunter, Special Music School, The Bards (Manhattan, Brooklyn, Bronx), Frank Sinatra, Museum, Hunter, ischool, Millennium, Dual Lang/Asian Affairs, SOF, Bacc School ... on and on

I won’t look them all up but the first one you list (Eleanor Roosevelt) has an entire application and admissions process with priority given to kids that meet academic screening.

That doesn’t sound like a school you just walk in and register for, nor does it sound like a school where all the kids get a 1 or 2 on the AP tests.

But that's not school works in NYC. You can't just walk into ANY high school and register your kid. That ends for us in grade school (5th). We have a middle school application process (limited to your district, but our districts are big - this is when most kids start commuting via subway to school). And then our high school application process is citywide. You have an academic "tier" based on grades and then a RAN (random assigned number aka lottery number). You get some preference if you're SWD or ELL or are very very low income. You also have an Ed Opt category.

Some schools want essays, some schools don't look at tiers (Beacon, one of the best, is essay only), some only look at Ed Opt (so take equal high, medium, low levels of kids .. so yes, kids who get 1s on APs are in same school as some of the best students), some want a portfolio or audition. You rank your choices and then you hope to get placed in one of your top options.

If you move to NYC while your kids are in high school, you still can't just walk in and register. That's not EVER a thing. You go to a Family Welcome Center and you get placed in whatever school has seats.

So when you say "I mean nobody…no one..zero. It’s the equivalent of someone saying I send one kid in DC to Walls and the other to Anacostia High. That family doesn’t exist." that's 100% bullshit. You clearly know nothing about how the system works or who attends public school. Thousands of kids who end up in top colleges are in very strong public schools in nyc.

I was 100% correct that any person that cares about their kid sends them to an application high school that doesn’t have kids getting 1s and 2s on AP tests.

So, you agree OP is full of shit and making up their scenario, right?

Nobody is placing their kid into shitty PS 35 whatever in NYC.

I am OP. New York City is different. We do not have a "zoned" school. There is a complex HS admissions process that involves tests, lotteries, and/or auditions if your child is artsy. My older child goes to a test-in school that is almost painfully rigorous. My younger one did not pass that test, and is in a lottery school that is known to be "nice" - supportive, families who generally care about education - but is not at all rigorous. Parents openly complain that their kids do not pass the AP tests - of course some do, but the level of teaching and learning simply isn't comparable. I would be surprised if kids are getting 4's and 5's without any outside tutoring.

Having 2 kids in very different schools is not an uncommon scenario at all in NYC, I realize it is different elsewhere in the country.

Anyway, it seems kind of wild to me that colleges take on face value that getting A's in an AP class is the same from school to school. They use SAT scores as a check on grade inflation to an extent, but don't use AP scores the same way - why not?

I dont get your argument. All classes are graded differently. Even within a school you might get the easy chemistry teacher or the hard one.

APs, at least, have a standardized test that kind of acts like a final exam across schools.

But colleges don't look at AP scores.

[Anonymous]

What you describe, op, is just another version of grade inflation. This is why schools are going back to requiring standardized testing which can reveal grade inflation if test scores don’t support gpa.