If your kid scored super high on MAP….

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people are nuts.

Map-M third grade fall score of 218 is beginning of 99th percentile. 240 is a very high score.

1% of 12,000 students per grade is 120 students in the county scoring above 218. We have 137 elementary schools. Assuming that all students in the 99th percentile are in 25% of the schools means there are only 3-4 kids per grade in the higher performing schools scoring in the 99th percentile which is 218. 240 for the third grade fall Map-M is high probability of being the highest score for the grade in the school.

But my DC got 242 in Map-m and several of her friends got 230+ so we do feel like lots of kids got 99%. She's in grade 2.

A whole bunch of kids in second grade are not scoring 230+ on the second grade fall map-m. 205 is the beginning of 99th percentile for second grade fall map-m.

That is nonsense.

Somebody is lying. If this were true, there would be several hundred 300+ kids in 8th. In reality there is no more than two dozen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Please be careful about the scores posters throw around on here.

The 3rd grade 265 MAP-M score a PP just wrote about never happened. Judging by the MCPS Central Office discussions about high MAP scores, and an examination of the top scores received in each school, which are not made public but that I have seen in recent years, that number is made-up.

OP, your kid's math score is commendably high, the verbal is less special. Your kid will get into compacted math (CES or not) and still be bored. The great lesson of life for such children is that boredom should not equal unhappiness. My kids were certainly not challenged in school, but that didn't mean they were unhappy. Creativity and curiosity emerge from boredom.

My oldest is thriving in college. In K-12, they chose interesting intellectual and sporty activities for themselves outside of school, and read like crazy during school hours.

No skipping ahead. No private. You want to save your ammunition for tutoring and test prep (even gifted kids sometimes need a little boost), as well as college savings. An academically easy child like this is made for a good public school, where they can sweep all the APs without turning a hair, and make a soft landing at a great college. Money for tuition, on the other hand, might be harder to come by, even with the demographic cliff predicted for your kid's age group. My son goes to an 85K a year private university. In-state is 30-40K a year nowadays. Total cost of attendance (tuition, room and board, fees, etc). Tuition has always risen faster than inflation on average.

Not the previous poster but I work with MAP scores and it is indeed possible to get a 265 in MAP math in third grade and higher.

At my kids school, students compare their MAP scores and there are a couple that have higher than 265 and at our school the OP's kid's scores isn't that great. I forget what the cut off to get into the GT program is, like 250?

Which brings me to the next point. If OP's child really isn't academically being challenged they can look into the GT program or similar programs, I don't think they mentioned what grade their child is in.

But keep in mind there are other factors that they evaluate in addition to test scores, such as the maturity level of kids.

you are either lying nor clueless. the math score is great and rare for a 3rd grader.

I would share the numbers I'm looking at but don't think it's allowed. Go ahead and submit a request for the numbers of scores or find a more comprehensive MAP report that breaks out the score ranges by school and test administration, it's all allowed by the public information act.

I don't need to do any of this. I have 3 kids in MCPS, one at a magnet. People on DCUM make you feel like every kid in MCPS is 99.9999th percentile. Meanwhile, a vast majority of kids at my kids' schools are dumb as rocks.

Right and I agree that may not be the norm.

Don't know if you're the original poster I was responding to but my issue is that they claimed anyone that said their child scored 265 or higher is a liar.

But I can say for a fact it is indeed possible to score that and higher. Those students are probably towards the top end, maybe just a handful.

And with the OP talking about considering having their child skip a grade, I'm just being honest. 241 in MAP Math at grade 3 isn't considered that high at my kid's school. So think they still have some room to learn at their current grade level.

I am not that poster. In fact, I responded on the first page saying that these are no prodigy level scores and the idea of skipping grades based on that score and being bored is ridiculous. I know there exist some very high scores in this district - a district that has something like 12k students per grade. I understand the difference between high and very high and exceptionally high scores.

But DCUM is totally insane when it comes to these scores. Unless your kid scored 320+ in K every score is "very common", "nothing special" and "my own kid scored higher". This is not reality of the schools in MCPS, including "best" schools and most selective magnet programs. The number of kids with exceptionally high scores is very small at the district level (to say nothing about individual schools).

NP. In general, I agree with you. In this specific case, OP needs a reality check. Those scores for fall of 3rd grade are good but they aren't off the charts, and OP would do well to understand that 99th percentile nationally still means there are thousands of kids like hers in MCPS and likely hundreds in the same grade level.

I can be the OP's Voice of Chistmas Future and say that those scores are pretty much exactly the same as my kids' in middle elementary. Those kids are now successful MS and HS students in magnet programs, but they are not particularly exceptional within their programs. They are bright and curious and happy and successful, but there are plenty of kids blowing the roof off tests, taking pre-calculus in 9th grade, etc. My kids (and OP's it seems) are run of the mill smart, which I actually think is kind of a sweet spot.

There already was a discussion about this recently where people claimed that something like 15% of MCPS students (so around 1800 per grade) are 99th percentile nationally (MAP-M). This is not true. At all.

Also, not being exceptional at a magnet program that accepts 1 in 10 (above average) applicants hardly shows that there are "hundreds of kids like this per class in MCPS". Average student at Blair SMCS is likely a top 100 student in MCPS.

As a SMCS parent, I think this is wrong. First of all, parts of the county aren't even eligible for the Blair program. Second of all, plenty of smart kids choose RMIB, Wheaton Engineering, or another magnet program, or no magnet program at all.

But even if we believe that OP's child is a "top 100" third grader, that still doesn't support grade skipping, and certainly not based on MAP, which is not even an intelligence test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people are nuts.

Map-M third grade fall score of 218 is beginning of 99th percentile. 240 is a very high score.

1% of 12,000 students per grade is 120 students in the county scoring above 218. We have 137 elementary schools. Assuming that all students in the 99th percentile are in 25% of the schools means there are only 3-4 kids per grade in the higher performing schools scoring in the 99th percentile which is 218. 240 for the third grade fall Map-M is high probability of being the highest score for the grade in the school.

But my DC got 242 in Map-m and several of her friends got 230+ so we do feel like lots of kids got 99%. She's in grade 2.

A whole bunch of kids in second grade are not scoring 230+ on the second grade fall map-m. 205 is the beginning of 99th percentile for second grade fall map-m.

That is nonsense.

Somebody is lying. If this were true, there would be several hundred 300+ kids in 8th. In reality there is no more than two dozen.

Actually, it could be true. MAP measures exposure, not intelligence.

It's not THAT hard for a 3rd grader to be exposed to and comprehend 5th grade math to the extent that they could perform on a standardized test. At that point, it's mostly a matter of rote memorization. It's much harder for an 8th grader to be exposed to and comprehend calculus. Moreover, we know from extensive studies that "giftedness" in early elementary is not necessarily a predictor of academic success down the road, since content is more coachable at that age.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Please be careful about the scores posters throw around on here.

The 3rd grade 265 MAP-M score a PP just wrote about never happened. Judging by the MCPS Central Office discussions about high MAP scores, and an examination of the top scores received in each school, which are not made public but that I have seen in recent years, that number is made-up.

OP, your kid's math score is commendably high, the verbal is less special. Your kid will get into compacted math (CES or not) and still be bored. The great lesson of life for such children is that boredom should not equal unhappiness. My kids were certainly not challenged in school, but that didn't mean they were unhappy. Creativity and curiosity emerge from boredom.

My oldest is thriving in college. In K-12, they chose interesting intellectual and sporty activities for themselves outside of school, and read like crazy during school hours.

No skipping ahead. No private. You want to save your ammunition for tutoring and test prep (even gifted kids sometimes need a little boost), as well as college savings. An academically easy child like this is made for a good public school, where they can sweep all the APs without turning a hair, and make a soft landing at a great college. Money for tuition, on the other hand, might be harder to come by, even with the demographic cliff predicted for your kid's age group. My son goes to an 85K a year private university. In-state is 30-40K a year nowadays. Total cost of attendance (tuition, room and board, fees, etc). Tuition has always risen faster than inflation on average.

Not the previous poster but I work with MAP scores and it is indeed possible to get a 265 in MAP math in third grade and higher.

At my kids school, students compare their MAP scores and there are a couple that have higher than 265 and at our school the OP's kid's scores isn't that great. I forget what the cut off to get into the GT program is, like 250?

Which brings me to the next point. If OP's child really isn't academically being challenged they can look into the GT program or similar programs, I don't think they mentioned what grade their child is in.

But keep in mind there are other factors that they evaluate in addition to test scores, such as the maturity level of kids.

you are either lying nor clueless. the math score is great and rare for a 3rd grader.

I would share the numbers I'm looking at but don't think it's allowed. Go ahead and submit a request for the numbers of scores or find a more comprehensive MAP report that breaks out the score ranges by school and test administration, it's all allowed by the public information act.

I don't need to do any of this. I have 3 kids in MCPS, one at a magnet. People on DCUM make you feel like every kid in MCPS is 99.9999th percentile. Meanwhile, a vast majority of kids at my kids' schools are dumb as rocks.

Right and I agree that may not be the norm.

Don't know if you're the original poster I was responding to but my issue is that they claimed anyone that said their child scored 265 or higher is a liar.

But I can say for a fact it is indeed possible to score that and higher. Those students are probably towards the top end, maybe just a handful.

And with the OP talking about considering having their child skip a grade, I'm just being honest. 241 in MAP Math at grade 3 isn't considered that high at my kid's school. So think they still have some room to learn at their current grade level.

I am not that poster. In fact, I responded on the first page saying that these are no prodigy level scores and the idea of skipping grades based on that score and being bored is ridiculous. I know there exist some very high scores in this district - a district that has something like 12k students per grade. I understand the difference between high and very high and exceptionally high scores.

But DCUM is totally insane when it comes to these scores. Unless your kid scored 320+ in K every score is "very common", "nothing special" and "my own kid scored higher". This is not reality of the schools in MCPS, including "best" schools and most selective magnet programs. The number of kids with exceptionally high scores is very small at the district level (to say nothing about individual schools).

NP. In general, I agree with you. In this specific case, OP needs a reality check. Those scores for fall of 3rd grade are good but they aren't off the charts, and OP would do well to understand that 99th percentile nationally still means there are thousands of kids like hers in MCPS and likely hundreds in the same grade level.

I can be the OP's Voice of Chistmas Future and say that those scores are pretty much exactly the same as my kids' in middle elementary. Those kids are now successful MS and HS students in magnet programs, but they are not particularly exceptional within their programs. They are bright and curious and happy and successful, but there are plenty of kids blowing the roof off tests, taking pre-calculus in 9th grade, etc. My kids (and OP's it seems) are run of the mill smart, which I actually think is kind of a sweet spot.

There already was a discussion about this recently where people claimed that something like 15% of MCPS students (so around 1800 per grade) are 99th percentile nationally (MAP-M). This is not true. At all.

Also, not being exceptional at a magnet program that accepts 1 in 10 (above average) applicants hardly shows that there are "hundreds of kids like this per class in MCPS". Average student at Blair SMCS is likely a top 100 student in MCPS.

As a SMCS parent, I think this is wrong. First of all, parts of the county aren't even eligible for the Blair program. Second of all, plenty of smart kids choose RMIB, Wheaton Engineering, or another magnet program, or no magnet program at all.

But even if we believe that OP's child is a "top 100" third grader, that still doesn't support grade skipping, and certainly not based on MAP, which is not even an intelligence test.

I agree, but it is a highly coveted program among top performing kids. I believe that almost of them apply, and some don't enroll (a small number - their yield is over 90%).

If PP's child is "not exceptional" at SMCS they are likely top 25%. That leaves 75 slots for those other programs/base schools.

[Anonymous]

The only students that go to Blair are from downcounty or northeast consortium.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people are nuts.

Map-M third grade fall score of 218 is beginning of 99th percentile. 240 is a very high score.

1% of 12,000 students per grade is 120 students in the county scoring above 218. We have 137 elementary schools. Assuming that all students in the 99th percentile are in 25% of the schools means there are only 3-4 kids per grade in the higher performing schools scoring in the 99th percentile which is 218. 240 for the third grade fall Map-M is high probability of being the highest score for the grade in the school.

But my DC got 242 in Map-m and several of her friends got 230+ so we do feel like lots of kids got 99%. She's in grade 2.

A whole bunch of kids in second grade are not scoring 230+ on the second grade fall map-m. 205 is the beginning of 99th percentile for second grade fall map-m.

That is nonsense.

Somebody is lying. If this were true, there would be several hundred 300+ kids in 8th. In reality there is no more than two dozen.

Actually, it could be true. MAP measures exposure, not intelligence.

It's not THAT hard for a 3rd grader to be exposed to and comprehend 5th grade math to the extent that they could perform on a standardized test. At that point, it's mostly a matter of rote memorization. It's much harder for an 8th grader to be exposed to and comprehend calculus. Moreover, we know from extensive studies that "giftedness" in early elementary is not necessarily a predictor of academic success down the road, since content is more coachable at that age.

+1

[Anonymous]

I would not skip. The one very smart kid I know who skipped a grade struggled in high school and ended up dropping out of college for a while. The social fit is important.

I'd focus on school as a platform for social learning for now, and supplement as you can at home with learning experiences and engaging academic (or not) hobbies. Sure, take advantage of the enrichment opportunities that are out there, but it is not the end of the world if your isn't reading high school level texts in his elementary school class.

As others have said, school will become more challenging as your student gets older. For mine, it wasn't until high school that he really was adequately challenged academically, but high school has been great and I feel like he'll be well prepared for a good college and a happy, productive life (the end goal for us). We actually turned town magnet middle since the commute and loss of neighborhood community did not seem worth it. Four years later, we all still feel it was the right choice.

[Anonymous]

I feel like every person on DCUM has a kid that scores 99% on both MAP tests…seems suspicious to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people are nuts.

Map-M third grade fall score of 218 is beginning of 99th percentile. 240 is a very high score.

1% of 12,000 students per grade is 120 students in the county scoring above 218. We have 137 elementary schools. Assuming that all students in the 99th percentile are in 25% of the schools means there are only 3-4 kids per grade in the higher performing schools scoring in the 99th percentile which is 218. 240 for the third grade fall Map-M is high probability of being the highest score for the grade in the school.

But my DC got 242 in Map-m and several of her friends got 230+ so we do feel like lots of kids got 99%. She's in grade 2.

What school is that?

This is obviously a made up mocking post.

[Anonymous]

Do not skip.


That's a mistake you can't unmake unless you transfer to private.

You can raise the bar for quality of writing you require for homework, and do free and paid enrichment math/c/science/literacy, do academic clubs at school, pursue arts and sports, and take advanced/AP classes in high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Please be careful about the scores posters throw around on here.

The 3rd grade 265 MAP-M score a PP just wrote about never happened. Judging by the MCPS Central Office discussions about high MAP scores, and an examination of the top scores received in each school, which are not made public but that I have seen in recent years, that number is made-up.

OP, your kid's math score is commendably high, the verbal is less special. Your kid will get into compacted math (CES or not) and still be bored. The great lesson of life for such children is that boredom should not equal unhappiness. My kids were certainly not challenged in school, but that didn't mean they were unhappy. Creativity and curiosity emerge from boredom.

My oldest is thriving in college. In K-12, they chose interesting intellectual and sporty activities for themselves outside of school, and read like crazy during school hours.

No skipping ahead. No private. You want to save your ammunition for tutoring and test prep (even gifted kids sometimes need a little boost), as well as college savings. An academically easy child like this is made for a good public school, where they can sweep all the APs without turning a hair, and make a soft landing at a great college. Money for tuition, on the other hand, might be harder to come by, even with the demographic cliff predicted for your kid's age group. My son goes to an 85K a year private university. In-state is 30-40K a year nowadays. Total cost of attendance (tuition, room and board, fees, etc). Tuition has always risen faster than inflation on average.

Not the previous poster but I work with MAP scores and it is indeed possible to get a 265 in MAP math in third grade and higher.

At my kids school, students compare their MAP scores and there are a couple that have higher than 265 and at our school the OP's kid's scores isn't that great. I forget what the cut off to get into the GT program is, like 250?

Which brings me to the next point. If OP's child really isn't academically being challenged they can look into the GT program or similar programs, I don't think they mentioned what grade their child is in.

But keep in mind there are other factors that they evaluate in addition to test scores, such as the maturity level of kids.

There is no school with a GT cut off requiring third grade fall map-m of 250. Nonsense.

250 sounds suspiciously like cutoff for Algebra 1 in sixth grade. This MAP-M score is used at some schools for fifth graders (!!) to put them at the fastest math track available. A very small number of students is in on this track (around 15 out of 400 at one of the mid-low farms middle schools).

But, all of a sudden, every other MCPS third grader has already reached this level. If only!

Yeah.. fifth grade Map-M score of 244 in the fall and 258 in the spring is the beginning of 99th percentile. 250 in the spring in 5th grade probably puts you around 95th percentile which is likely acceptable for GT in middle school.

GT is sometimes 2% and sometimes 15%. It depends on the menu of programs on offer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people are nuts.

Map-M third grade fall score of 218 is beginning of 99th percentile. 240 is a very high score.

1% of 12,000 students per grade is 120 students in the county scoring above 218. We have 137 elementary schools. Assuming that all students in the 99th percentile are in 25% of the schools means there are only 3-4 kids per grade in the higher performing schools scoring in the 99th percentile which is 218. 240 for the third grade fall Map-M is high probability of being the highest score for the grade in the school.

But my DC got 242 in Map-m and several of her friends got 230+ so we do feel like lots of kids got 99%. She's in grade 2.

Median MAP-M score for students accepted to Blair SMCS is in the 270s. These are 8th grade scores.

8th grade map-m score of 269 in the fall and 277 in the spring are beginning of 99th percentile. So if the median is in the 270's then there are probably kids being accepted with score as low as 95th percentile.

I'm sure there are some (lab and field scientists and engineers, not math/CS/theoretical physics computationalists), but > 270 have much higher admissions chance than <270. If math is your peak subject/hobby and your score is <270, not likely to admit

[Anonymous]

Bless your heart OP.

[Anonymous]

OP didn't reply regarding whether is alone in a low performing school or with a cohort in a high performing school.

[Anonymous]

Work with your kid on not being bored. My kid has similar scores and loves school / is not bored. His ability to read and interpret text and complete math problems are far ahead of his peers, he is 8, there is SO MUCH he doesn’t know. His class may be working on literacy and phonics, but he is learning about folk tales and ancient civilizations from the texts they are reading in class. The school librarian helped him find more books on the same topics they are covering in language arts and he is allowed to read those at his desk if he finishes his work early.

My other child is bright, but not as significantly ahead of grade level as his brother. However he is a know it all and frequently tells us at him “I know!” In an exasperated tone. We talk about this a lot because I don’t want him to be rude to a teacher or make his peers feel ashamed or behind. I tell him that while he may know how to solve a math problem, he may not know the method being taught and he should challenge himself to show his work and solve the same problem more than one way. Instead of being smug, we are working with him to make sure he is reading the whole question, showing his work, etc.

My husband and I were both in gifted programs as kids and among the youngest kids in our grade. We don’t see any need to rush our kids in elementary just because they can technically meet grade level standards. We think it’s more important for our kids to learn good habits and have a deep and robust understanding of the concepts they are learning now since they are building blocks for more complex work to come.

There is a difference between being precocious like my know it all older child and truly gifted like my younger one who seems to intuitively understand math concepts in a way that constantly amazes us. Tests reward the precocious and well behaved kids a lot and it’s easy for them to blaze through younger grades with tons of praise and then hit a wall when work gets hard. You need to work on growth mindset with those kids so they don’t develop a sense of self based on being “smart” and then fall apart when they eventually struggle. Truly gifted kids can find ways to go deeper and get more out of what they are learning in class - or you can help them find ways to entertain themselves without being disruptive.

Very few kids are soooooo advanced that the need to skip a grade outweighs the social and emotional benefit of being with same age peers.