Regular vs. Honors vs. AP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That way everyone’s weighted gpa is higher.

I noticed on my kids' transcripts that the high school level classes they took in middle school are not honors and thus not weighted. It doesn't make a lot of sense.

Some are, some aren't. First or second year language classes are not weighted; third year Honors language classes are. Honors Geometry or Algebra 2 are.

Our middle school's high school credit geometry is not weighted.

Are they still in MS? If so they won’t see the weighting until HS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That way everyone’s weighted gpa is higher.

I noticed on my kids' transcripts that the high school level classes they took in middle school are not honors and thus not weighted. It doesn't make a lot of sense.

Some are, some aren't. First or second year language classes are not weighted; third year Honors language classes are. Honors Geometry or Algebra 2 are.

Our middle school's high school credit geometry is not weighted.

Are they still in MS? If so they won’t see the weighting until HS.

Nope, in HS now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That way everyone’s weighted gpa is higher.

I noticed on my kids' transcripts that the high school level classes they took in middle school are not honors and thus not weighted. It doesn't make a lot of sense.

Some are, some aren't. First or second year language classes are not weighted; third year Honors language classes are. Honors Geometry or Algebra 2 are.

Our middle school's high school credit geometry is not weighted.

Are they still in MS? If so they won’t see the weighting until HS.

Nope, in HS now.

If the class was Honors Geometry, whether in MS or HS, it should be weighted.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS does not call everything Honors now and yes there are plenty of in level classes and plenty of kids talking them (Despite what DCUM will tell you). The only place where this is absolutely a problem is English (MS and Grade 9/10). Choosing an advance SS, Science or Math is a different experience.

What percentage of MCPS high schools do not opt into the Honors-for-All model that is dominant in the DCC and NEC?

Many of the posted documents on school sites still show on-level classes being offered, but in reality they will only offer the Honors class. With the exception of math, which as others have said, still often has on-level options.

So in other words, the PP who is attempting to act like Honors-for-All isn't pervasive throughout MCPS high schools, is attempting to obfuscate and gaslight.

Not gaslighting. There are plenty of science, math, and social studies classes not labeled honors or AP/IB thus they are on-level. Just because DCUM is saying only honors classes are offered and everything below that is remedial doesn’t make it so.

They may show up in the course listings but do you know if there is anyone currently enrolled in them? At our HS, only honors English, science and social studies classes are available, in terms of the main graduation pathway classes. There are on-level electives of course, and there are some on-level math classes.

+1 just because they are in the catalog doesn't mean it's actually offered at the school. They push too many kids who are not ready into the "honors" classes so that the numbers look good, and certain people's feelings don't get hurt.

It's that classic MCPS thing where there is good reason for a policy change, but because MCPS is incapable of handling anything with nuance, they make broad changes that make the problem they're trying to solve worse.

The reasons behind the "Honors-for-All" movement are understandable. There WAS racism and gatekeeping with honors classes before. The criteria was non-existent or unevenly applied at the expense of keeping mainly Black kids out of honors classes. But instead of doing the meticulous work of fleshing out the criteria for students to qualify for an honors and ensure that criteria was being applied with fidelity and fairness to mitigate racist teachers and admin from snuffing out promising Black students' potential, they decided to just make Honors the default for everybody.

Anyone with two functional brain cells knows that if you make everyone special then no one is special. I don't really know why the folks within in MCPS who lobbied for and implemented Honors-for-All couldn't foresee or didn't care about the obvious downsides to this approach. But here we are, stuck with cleaning up the consequential mess of their decisions.

There does not need to be gate keeping for honors or AP classes. Students should sign up for what they want to take, be encouraged to take challenging classes and be supported within. That said, they should also expect the depth or speed and expectation of deliverable is not changing just because they are choosing a certain course.

This is unrealistic, I'm afraid. The howls of complaint that would go up if AP classes attempted to move at their former pace would be deafening. Even the AP exams themselves are quickly losing rigor because the College Board wants to keep enrollment high and doesn't want to lose out to dual enrollment at community colleges.

It’s not unrealistic at all. When folks complain or hoot and hollar they should merely be pointed back to the course book that show on level and honors course offering and then pointed to their counselor if they would like to have their schedule changed. AP courses are meant to mirror introductory college courses and students are expected to step up to the rigor. If students need help teachers offer office hours and there is tutoring available, not to mention the internet offers even more opportunity for help.

There’s a reason that previously mostly Junior and Seniors took AP classes and even then only a few. Everyone should be afforded the opportunity to take an advance class but that doesn’t mean that said class will be easy.

Your statement about what is realistic and the truth on the ground are different. - AP teacher

[Anonymous]

My 9th grader is a slightly above average student. She was enrolled in all honors and one “regular” class, which was US history. After the first day she emailed her counselor to move to honors history. She said that the kids in the regular class were learning English and that the schedule appeared to be stuff she learned in 8th grade.

[Anonymous]

Is there an on-level Calculus course offered in MCPS? Or does a student have to take an AP AB or AP BC course? What about a Calculus course at MC - is there one a student can take there and receive HS credit?

[Anonymous]

Onlevel—calculus with applications
H—AP AB
AP—AP BC

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Onlevel—calculus with applications
H—AP AB
AP—AP BC

This isn’t an incorrect way to think about the courses but I would say at this level it’s more about why the student needs the math. This is truly a case of depth or amount of material and for what purpose.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My 9th grader is a slightly above average student. She was enrolled in all honors and one “regular” class, which was US history. After the first day she emailed her counselor to move to honors history. She said that the kids in the regular class were learning English and that the schedule appeared to be stuff she learned in 8th grade.

I'm surprised they are offering regular, honors, and (presumably) AP. usually it's just honors and AP. Honors is like what we considered regular growing up, and AP is what we considered honors growing up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 9th grader is a slightly above average student. She was enrolled in all honors and one “regular” class, which was US history. After the first day she emailed her counselor to move to honors history. She said that the kids in the regular class were learning English and that the schedule appeared to be stuff she learned in 8th grade.

I'm surprised they are offering regular, honors, and (presumably) AP. usually it's just honors and AP. Honors is like what we considered regular growing up, and AP is what we considered honors growing up.

Our school still offers all 3. Only some schools have official gone to this "honors for all model" for all classes.

[Anonymous]

There are still on level classes in many subjects. I know this because my son has a disability that makes math and science more challenging so he has mostly been in on-level classes in these subjects. I also have seen a definite difference between honors and regular because my son has tried a few honors classes only to have to drop down.

I’m actually tired of this honors for all narrative. It’s really frustrating for students who work hard to keep up in honors to hear that it’s not really honors. If your child finds honors too easy, stick to AP.

[Anonymous]

Nobody says it is racist to gatekeepers for honors and AP classes in private school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 9th grader is a slightly above average student. She was enrolled in all honors and one “regular” class, which was US history. After the first day she emailed her counselor to move to honors history. She said that the kids in the regular class were learning English and that the schedule appeared to be stuff she learned in 8th grade.

I'm surprised they are offering regular, honors, and (presumably) AP. usually it's just honors and AP. Honors is like what we considered regular growing up, and AP is what we considered honors growing up.

Our school still offers all 3. Only some schools have official gone to this "honors for all model" for all classes.

It’s not really honors for all when there is an AP class. There re two levels — honors just becomes on level.

The problem is when there is only one level, like all students have to take honors English 9 or honor biology.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are still on level classes in many subjects. I know this because my son has a disability that makes math and science more challenging so he has mostly been in on-level classes in these subjects. I also have seen a definite difference between honors and regular because my son has tried a few honors classes only to have to drop down.

I’m actually tired of this honors for all narrative. It’s really frustrating for students who work hard to keep up in honors to hear that it’s not really honors. If your child finds honors too easy, stick to AP.

To your first point, I think this must be school-by-school because there are categorically no on-level classes at my child's HS. I've seen it with my own eyes and heard it from the teachers.

To the bolded, the problem is that there is no AP option for a lot of these classes. For English, the first AP class a kid can take is in 11th grade, so from 6th - 10th there is no option for acceleration or differentiation outside the magnets. For science, the "Honors" classes are pre-requisites for the AP classes, except the "Honors" science classes are so heterogenous that it results in kids being unprepared for the AP version because they spent the "Honors" years doing worksheets while folks screwed around in class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Nobody says it is racist to gatekeepers for honors and AP classes in private school.

No one agrees that private schools should gate keep honors and AP classes. But folks choose to pay for private school and they make their own policies.

All kids should be encouraged to challenge themselves and supported in taking class. That said, they should also get whatever grade is deserved.