Regular vs. Honors vs. AP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That way everyone’s weighted gpa is higher.

They could easily change their policy so that Honors courses are not weighted the same as AP/IB.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS does not call everything Honors now and yes there are plenty of in level classes and plenty of kids talking them (Despite what DCUM will tell you). The only place where this is absolutely a problem is English (MS and Grade 9/10). Choosing an advance SS, Science or Math is a different experience.

What percentage of MCPS high schools do not opt into the Honors-for-All model that is dominant in the DCC and NEC?

Many of the posted documents on school sites still show on-level classes being offered, but in reality they will only offer the Honors class. With the exception of math, which as others have said, still often has on-level options.

So in other words, the PP who is attempting to act like Honors-for-All isn't pervasive throughout MCPS high schools, is attempting to obfuscate and gaslight.

Not gaslighting. There are plenty of science, math, and social studies classes not labeled honors or AP/IB thus they are on-level. Just because DCUM is saying only honors classes are offered and everything below that is remedial doesn’t make it so.

They may show up in the course listings but do you know if there is anyone currently enrolled in them? At our HS, only honors English, science and social studies classes are available, in terms of the main graduation pathway classes. There are on-level electives of course, and there are some on-level math classes.

Courses are offered based on who signs up for them. So yes, there are on grade level classes offered AND people in them. I even had the experience one year of them combining an OnLevel and Honors Bio class where the teacher then proceeded to give different quizzes/test and more extensive homework to the students registered for Honors vs Regular. That I pretty upset about because clearly you’re not teaching and doing labs everyday at the Honors level.

If your school is not offering any on level classes except for electives, then yes you have an Honors for All model which needs to be discussed with Administration because that is a disservice for many.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS does not call everything Honors now and yes there are plenty of in level classes and plenty of kids talking them (Despite what DCUM will tell you). The only place where this is absolutely a problem is English (MS and Grade 9/10). Choosing an advance SS, Science or Math is a different experience.

What percentage of MCPS high schools do not opt into the Honors-for-All model that is dominant in the DCC and NEC?

Many of the posted documents on school sites still show on-level classes being offered, but in reality they will only offer the Honors class. With the exception of math, which as others have said, still often has on-level options.

So in other words, the PP who is attempting to act like Honors-for-All isn't pervasive throughout MCPS high schools, is attempting to obfuscate and gaslight.

Not gaslighting. There are plenty of science, math, and social studies classes not labeled honors or AP/IB thus they are on-level. Just because DCUM is saying only honors classes are offered and everything below that is remedial doesn’t make it so.

They may show up in the course listings but do you know if there is anyone currently enrolled in them? At our HS, only honors English, science and social studies classes are available, in terms of the main graduation pathway classes. There are on-level electives of course, and there are some on-level math classes.

+1 just because they are in the catalog doesn't mean it's actually offered at the school. They push too many kids who are not ready into the "honors" classes so that the numbers look good, and certain people's feelings don't get hurt.

It's that classic MCPS thing where there is good reason for a policy change, but because MCPS is incapable of handling anything with nuance, they make broad changes that make the problem they're trying to solve worse.

The reasons behind the "Honors-for-All" movement are understandable. There WAS racism and gatekeeping with honors classes before. The criteria was non-existent or unevenly applied at the expense of keeping mainly Black kids out of honors classes. But instead of doing the meticulous work of fleshing out the criteria for students to qualify for an honors and ensure that criteria was being applied with fidelity and fairness to mitigate racist teachers and admin from snuffing out promising Black students' potential, they decided to just make Honors the default for everybody.

Anyone with two functional brain cells knows that if you make everyone special then no one is special. I don't really know why the folks within in MCPS who lobbied for and implemented Honors-for-All couldn't foresee or didn't care about the obvious downsides to this approach. But here we are, stuck with cleaning up the consequential mess of their decisions.

There does not need to be gate keeping for honors or AP classes. Students should sign up for what they want to take, be encouraged to take challenging classes and be supported within. That said, they should also expect the depth or speed and expectation of deliverable is not changing just because they are choosing a certain course.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS does not call everything Honors now and yes there are plenty of in level classes and plenty of kids talking them (Despite what DCUM will tell you). The only place where this is absolutely a problem is English (MS and Grade 9/10). Choosing an advance SS, Science or Math is a different experience.

What percentage of MCPS high schools do not opt into the Honors-for-All model that is dominant in the DCC and NEC?

Many of the posted documents on school sites still show on-level classes being offered, but in reality they will only offer the Honors class. With the exception of math, which as others have said, still often has on-level options.

So in other words, the PP who is attempting to act like Honors-for-All isn't pervasive throughout MCPS high schools, is attempting to obfuscate and gaslight.

Not gaslighting. There are plenty of science, math, and social studies classes not labeled honors or AP/IB thus they are on-level. Just because DCUM is saying only honors classes are offered and everything below that is remedial doesn’t make it so.

They may show up in the course listings but do you know if there is anyone currently enrolled in them? At our HS, only honors English, science and social studies classes are available, in terms of the main graduation pathway classes. There are on-level electives of course, and there are some on-level math classes.

My kid is in the Bridge program. All classes are on grade level. It’s terrible if you need true grade level which is now honors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS does not call everything Honors now and yes there are plenty of in level classes and plenty of kids talking them (Despite what DCUM will tell you). The only place where this is absolutely a problem is English (MS and Grade 9/10). Choosing an advance SS, Science or Math is a different experience.

What percentage of MCPS high schools do not opt into the Honors-for-All model that is dominant in the DCC and NEC?

Many of the posted documents on school sites still show on-level classes being offered, but in reality they will only offer the Honors class. With the exception of math, which as others have said, still often has on-level options.

So in other words, the PP who is attempting to act like Honors-for-All isn't pervasive throughout MCPS high schools, is attempting to obfuscate and gaslight.

Not gaslighting. There are plenty of science, math, and social studies classes not labeled honors or AP/IB thus they are on-level. Just because DCUM is saying only honors classes are offered and everything below that is remedial doesn’t make it so.

They may show up in the course listings but do you know if there is anyone currently enrolled in them? At our HS, only honors English, science and social studies classes are available, in terms of the main graduation pathway classes. There are on-level electives of course, and there are some on-level math classes.

Courses are offered based on who signs up for them. So yes, there are on grade level classes offered AND people in them. I even had the experience one year of them combining an OnLevel and Honors Bio class where the teacher then proceeded to give different quizzes/test and more extensive homework to the students registered for Honors vs Regular. That I pretty upset about because clearly you’re not teaching and doing labs everyday at the Honors level.

If your school is not offering any on level classes except for electives, then yes you have an Honors for All model which needs to be discussed with Administration because that is a disservice for many.

But the honors for all model is now the rule rather than the exception.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That way everyone’s weighted gpa is higher.

I noticed on my kids' transcripts that the high school level classes they took in middle school are not honors and thus not weighted. It doesn't make a lot of sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That way everyone’s weighted gpa is higher.

I noticed on my kids' transcripts that the high school level classes they took in middle school are not honors and thus not weighted. It doesn't make a lot of sense.

Some are, some aren't. First or second year language classes are not weighted; third year Honors language classes are. Honors Geometry or Algebra 2 are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS does not call everything Honors now and yes there are plenty of in level classes and plenty of kids talking them (Despite what DCUM will tell you). The only place where this is absolutely a problem is English (MS and Grade 9/10). Choosing an advance SS, Science or Math is a different experience.

What percentage of MCPS high schools do not opt into the Honors-for-All model that is dominant in the DCC and NEC?

Many of the posted documents on school sites still show on-level classes being offered, but in reality they will only offer the Honors class. With the exception of math, which as others have said, still often has on-level options.

So in other words, the PP who is attempting to act like Honors-for-All isn't pervasive throughout MCPS high schools, is attempting to obfuscate and gaslight.

I don't want to ascribe malice where ignorance might do, but that PP is wrong even if they don't think they are lying. Honors for All is absolutely pervasive, despite on-level still showing up in the course catalog. Those classes don't exist.

This creates a challenge for even bright 9th and 10th graders. For Social Studies, they can take AP US History and AP Government, but they are stuck with "Honors" English with readings that aren't even at grade level, let alone accelerated.

For science, they are in an even worse bind because "Honors" Biology and "Honors" Chemistry are pre-requisites for the AP courses but they are not preparing kids for the AP classes because the class is taught at a remedial level. It used to be that bright and motivated kids took Honors science to prep for AP science classes, but now that the pre-requisites are so watered down, the kids are showing up for AP unprepared.

AP Bio and Chem classes are double-period, so kids don't need to be prepared.

? My DC is in ap Chem, one period.

[Anonymous]

Honors students are like gen ed regarding behavior, IQ, and abilities but due to the parents if those kids having more money and power than the gen ed parents causes teachers to have to inflate their grades more bc they are more entitled.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS does not call everything Honors now and yes there are plenty of in level classes and plenty of kids talking them (Despite what DCUM will tell you). The only place where this is absolutely a problem is English (MS and Grade 9/10). Choosing an advance SS, Science or Math is a different experience.

What percentage of MCPS high schools do not opt into the Honors-for-All model that is dominant in the DCC and NEC?

Many of the posted documents on school sites still show on-level classes being offered, but in reality they will only offer the Honors class. With the exception of math, which as others have said, still often has on-level options.

So in other words, the PP who is attempting to act like Honors-for-All isn't pervasive throughout MCPS high schools, is attempting to obfuscate and gaslight.

Not gaslighting. There are plenty of science, math, and social studies classes not labeled honors or AP/IB thus they are on-level. Just because DCUM is saying only honors classes are offered and everything below that is remedial doesn’t make it so.

They may show up in the course listings but do you know if there is anyone currently enrolled in them? At our HS, only honors English, science and social studies classes are available, in terms of the main graduation pathway classes. There are on-level electives of course, and there are some on-level math classes.

+1 just because they are in the catalog doesn't mean it's actually offered at the school. They push too many kids who are not ready into the "honors" classes so that the numbers look good, and certain people's feelings don't get hurt.

It's that classic MCPS thing where there is good reason for a policy change, but because MCPS is incapable of handling anything with nuance, they make broad changes that make the problem they're trying to solve worse.

The reasons behind the "Honors-for-All" movement are understandable. There WAS racism and gatekeeping with honors classes before. The criteria was non-existent or unevenly applied at the expense of keeping mainly Black kids out of honors classes. But instead of doing the meticulous work of fleshing out the criteria for students to qualify for an honors and ensure that criteria was being applied with fidelity and fairness to mitigate racist teachers and admin from snuffing out promising Black students' potential, they decided to just make Honors the default for everybody.

Anyone with two functional brain cells knows that if you make everyone special then no one is special. I don't really know why the folks within in MCPS who lobbied for and implemented Honors-for-All couldn't foresee or didn't care about the obvious downsides to this approach. But here we are, stuck with cleaning up the consequential mess of their decisions.

There does not need to be gate keeping for honors or AP classes. Students should sign up for what they want to take, be encouraged to take challenging classes and be supported within. That said, they should also expect the depth or speed and expectation of deliverable is not changing just because they are choosing a certain course.

This is unrealistic, I'm afraid. The howls of complaint that would go up if AP classes attempted to move at their former pace would be deafening. Even the AP exams themselves are quickly losing rigor because the College Board wants to keep enrollment high and doesn't want to lose out to dual enrollment at community colleges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS does not call everything Honors now and yes there are plenty of in level classes and plenty of kids talking them (Despite what DCUM will tell you). The only place where this is absolutely a problem is English (MS and Grade 9/10). Choosing an advance SS, Science or Math is a different experience.

What percentage of MCPS high schools do not opt into the Honors-for-All model that is dominant in the DCC and NEC?

Many of the posted documents on school sites still show on-level classes being offered, but in reality they will only offer the Honors class. With the exception of math, which as others have said, still often has on-level options.

So in other words, the PP who is attempting to act like Honors-for-All isn't pervasive throughout MCPS high schools, is attempting to obfuscate and gaslight.

Not gaslighting. There are plenty of science, math, and social studies classes not labeled honors or AP/IB thus they are on-level. Just because DCUM is saying only honors classes are offered and everything below that is remedial doesn’t make it so.

They may show up in the course listings but do you know if there is anyone currently enrolled in them? At our HS, only honors English, science and social studies classes are available, in terms of the main graduation pathway classes. There are on-level electives of course, and there are some on-level math classes.

+1 just because they are in the catalog doesn't mean it's actually offered at the school. They push too many kids who are not ready into the "honors" classes so that the numbers look good, and certain people's feelings don't get hurt.

It's that classic MCPS thing where there is good reason for a policy change, but because MCPS is incapable of handling anything with nuance, they make broad changes that make the problem they're trying to solve worse.

The reasons behind the "Honors-for-All" movement are understandable. There WAS racism and gatekeeping with honors classes before. The criteria was non-existent or unevenly applied at the expense of keeping mainly Black kids out of honors classes. But instead of doing the meticulous work of fleshing out the criteria for students to qualify for an honors and ensure that criteria was being applied with fidelity and fairness to mitigate racist teachers and admin from snuffing out promising Black students' potential, they decided to just make Honors the default for everybody.

Anyone with two functional brain cells knows that if you make everyone special then no one is special. I don't really know why the folks within in MCPS who lobbied for and implemented Honors-for-All couldn't foresee or didn't care about the obvious downsides to this approach. But here we are, stuck with cleaning up the consequential mess of their decisions.

There does not need to be gate keeping for honors or AP classes. Students should sign up for what they want to take, be encouraged to take challenging classes and be supported within. That said, they should also expect the depth or speed and expectation of deliverable is not changing just because they are choosing a certain course.

I would be fine with having an open-door sign-up policy, but then weeding kids out and putting them back on-level if they prove via their academics that they can't keep up with the material.

But here's the problem: Sometimes kids get bad grades in those rigorous classes because the teachers don't know how to teach to the curriculum. So even that isn't a perfect way to gauge if the student is not ready for the rigor or if in fact, the teacher is not ready to instruct at that level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That way everyone’s weighted gpa is higher.

I noticed on my kids' transcripts that the high school level classes they took in middle school are not honors and thus not weighted. It doesn't make a lot of sense.

Some are, some aren't. First or second year language classes are not weighted; third year Honors language classes are. Honors Geometry or Algebra 2 are.

Our middle school's high school credit geometry is not weighted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS does not call everything Honors now and yes there are plenty of in level classes and plenty of kids talking them (Despite what DCUM will tell you). The only place where this is absolutely a problem is English (MS and Grade 9/10). Choosing an advance SS, Science or Math is a different experience.

What percentage of MCPS high schools do not opt into the Honors-for-All model that is dominant in the DCC and NEC?

Many of the posted documents on school sites still show on-level classes being offered, but in reality they will only offer the Honors class. With the exception of math, which as others have said, still often has on-level options.

So in other words, the PP who is attempting to act like Honors-for-All isn't pervasive throughout MCPS high schools, is attempting to obfuscate and gaslight.

Not gaslighting. There are plenty of science, math, and social studies classes not labeled honors or AP/IB thus they are on-level. Just because DCUM is saying only honors classes are offered and everything below that is remedial doesn’t make it so.

They may show up in the course listings but do you know if there is anyone currently enrolled in them? At our HS, only honors English, science and social studies classes are available, in terms of the main graduation pathway classes. There are on-level electives of course, and there are some on-level math classes.

+1 just because they are in the catalog doesn't mean it's actually offered at the school. They push too many kids who are not ready into the "honors" classes so that the numbers look good, and certain people's feelings don't get hurt.

It's that classic MCPS thing where there is good reason for a policy change, but because MCPS is incapable of handling anything with nuance, they make broad changes that make the problem they're trying to solve worse.

The reasons behind the "Honors-for-All" movement are understandable. There WAS racism and gatekeeping with honors classes before. The criteria was non-existent or unevenly applied at the expense of keeping mainly Black kids out of honors classes. But instead of doing the meticulous work of fleshing out the criteria for students to qualify for an honors and ensure that criteria was being applied with fidelity and fairness to mitigate racist teachers and admin from snuffing out promising Black students' potential, they decided to just make Honors the default for everybody.

Anyone with two functional brain cells knows that if you make everyone special then no one is special. I don't really know why the folks within in MCPS who lobbied for and implemented Honors-for-All couldn't foresee or didn't care about the obvious downsides to this approach. But here we are, stuck with cleaning up the consequential mess of their decisions.

There does not need to be gate keeping for honors or AP classes. Students should sign up for what they want to take, be encouraged to take challenging classes and be supported within. That said, they should also expect the depth or speed and expectation of deliverable is not changing just because they are choosing a certain course.

This is unrealistic, I'm afraid. The howls of complaint that would go up if AP classes attempted to move at their former pace would be deafening. Even the AP exams themselves are quickly losing rigor because the College Board wants to keep enrollment high and doesn't want to lose out to dual enrollment at community colleges.

It’s not unrealistic at all. When folks complain or hoot and hollar they should merely be pointed back to the course book that show on level and honors course offering and then pointed to their counselor if they would like to have their schedule changed. AP courses are meant to mirror introductory college courses and students are expected to step up to the rigor. If students need help teachers offer office hours and there is tutoring available, not to mention the internet offers even more opportunity for help.

There’s a reason that previously mostly Junior and Seniors took AP classes and even then only a few. Everyone should be afforded the opportunity to take an advance class but that doesn’t mean that said class will be easy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That way everyone’s weighted gpa is higher.

I noticed on my kids' transcripts that the high school level classes they took in middle school are not honors and thus not weighted. It doesn't make a lot of sense.

Some are, some aren't. First or second year language classes are not weighted; third year Honors language classes are. Honors Geometry or Algebra 2 are.

Our middle school's high school credit geometry is not weighted.

Is it Honors Geometry? If so, it should be weighted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS does not call everything Honors now and yes there are plenty of in level classes and plenty of kids talking them (Despite what DCUM will tell you). The only place where this is absolutely a problem is English (MS and Grade 9/10). Choosing an advance SS, Science or Math is a different experience.

What percentage of MCPS high schools do not opt into the Honors-for-All model that is dominant in the DCC and NEC?

Many of the posted documents on school sites still show on-level classes being offered, but in reality they will only offer the Honors class. With the exception of math, which as others have said, still often has on-level options.

So in other words, the PP who is attempting to act like Honors-for-All isn't pervasive throughout MCPS high schools, is attempting to obfuscate and gaslight.

Not gaslighting. There are plenty of science, math, and social studies classes not labeled honors or AP/IB thus they are on-level. Just because DCUM is saying only honors classes are offered and everything below that is remedial doesn’t make it so.

They may show up in the course listings but do you know if there is anyone currently enrolled in them? At our HS, only honors English, science and social studies classes are available, in terms of the main graduation pathway classes. There are on-level electives of course, and there are some on-level math classes.

+1 just because they are in the catalog doesn't mean it's actually offered at the school. They push too many kids who are not ready into the "honors" classes so that the numbers look good, and certain people's feelings don't get hurt.

It's that classic MCPS thing where there is good reason for a policy change, but because MCPS is incapable of handling anything with nuance, they make broad changes that make the problem they're trying to solve worse.

The reasons behind the "Honors-for-All" movement are understandable. There WAS racism and gatekeeping with honors classes before. The criteria was non-existent or unevenly applied at the expense of keeping mainly Black kids out of honors classes. But instead of doing the meticulous work of fleshing out the criteria for students to qualify for an honors and ensure that criteria was being applied with fidelity and fairness to mitigate racist teachers and admin from snuffing out promising Black students' potential, they decided to just make Honors the default for everybody.

Anyone with two functional brain cells knows that if you make everyone special then no one is special. I don't really know why the folks within in MCPS who lobbied for and implemented Honors-for-All couldn't foresee or didn't care about the obvious downsides to this approach. But here we are, stuck with cleaning up the consequential mess of their decisions.

There does not need to be gate keeping for honors or AP classes. Students should sign up for what they want to take, be encouraged to take challenging classes and be supported within. That said, they should also expect the depth or speed and expectation of deliverable is not changing just because they are choosing a certain course.

I would be fine with having an open-door sign-up policy, but then weeding kids out and putting them back on-level if they prove via their academics that they can't keep up with the material.

But here's the problem: Sometimes kids get bad grades in those rigorous classes because the teachers don't know how to teach to the curriculum. So even that isn't a perfect way to gauge if the student is not ready for the rigor or if in fact, the teacher is not ready to instruct at that level.

Most teachers are not teaching AP class out the gate. There are requirements that teachers must meet before they can teach an AP class. And if the teacher really is the problem, there is going to be a lot of students complaining.

Now there may be a time where a particular teachers style of teaching doesn’t work for every student, but that true generally and will definitely be true in university. So in that situation it’s up to the student to figure out how to learn what is needed. Do they need to see the teacher outside of class? Do they need to preview the material more before class? Do they need a tutor?