Regular vs. Honors vs. AP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In most high schools, they have gotten rid of regular or on-level classes. Honors has no criteria. It's now Honors-for-All, which means Honors is the new regular class and AP/IB is the new honors. It's madness, to be honest, but that's the current state.

Even several years ago when on-level classes were still commonplace in English and social studies, the on-level classes were essentially remedial classes, and the Honors classes were just regular level. Only AP or IB classes were/are rigorous.

[Anonymous]

So what do the ESL students or others who are behind in literacy do? Are they forced into “honors”?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS does not call everything Honors now and yes there are plenty of in level classes and plenty of kids talking them (Despite what DCUM will tell you). The only place where this is absolutely a problem is English (MS and Grade 9/10). Choosing an advance SS, Science or Math is a different experience.

What percentage of MCPS high schools do not opt into the Honors-for-All model that is dominant in the DCC and NEC?

Many of the posted documents on school sites still show on-level classes being offered, but in reality they will only offer the Honors class. With the exception of math, which as others have said, still often has on-level options.

So in other words, the PP who is attempting to act like Honors-for-All isn't pervasive throughout MCPS high schools, is attempting to obfuscate and gaslight.

Not gaslighting. There are plenty of science, math, and social studies classes not labeled honors or AP/IB thus they are on-level. Just because DCUM is saying only honors classes are offered and everything below that is remedial doesn’t make it so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS does not call everything Honors now and yes there are plenty of in level classes and plenty of kids talking them (Despite what DCUM will tell you). The only place where this is absolutely a problem is English (MS and Grade 9/10). Choosing an advance SS, Science or Math is a different experience.

What percentage of MCPS high schools do not opt into the Honors-for-All model that is dominant in the DCC and NEC?

Many of the posted documents on school sites still show on-level classes being offered, but in reality they will only offer the Honors class. With the exception of math, which as others have said, still often has on-level options.

So in other words, the PP who is attempting to act like Honors-for-All isn't pervasive throughout MCPS high schools, is attempting to obfuscate and gaslight.

I don't want to ascribe malice where ignorance might do, but that PP is wrong even if they don't think they are lying. Honors for All is absolutely pervasive, despite on-level still showing up in the course catalog. Those classes don't exist.

This creates a challenge for even bright 9th and 10th graders. For Social Studies, they can take AP US History and AP Government, but they are stuck with "Honors" English with readings that aren't even at grade level, let alone accelerated.

For science, they are in an even worse bind because "Honors" Biology and "Honors" Chemistry are pre-requisites for the AP courses but they are not preparing kids for the AP classes because the class is taught at a remedial level. It used to be that bright and motivated kids took Honors science to prep for AP science classes, but now that the pre-requisites are so watered down, the kids are showing up for AP unprepared.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS does not call everything Honors now and yes there are plenty of in level classes and plenty of kids talking them (Despite what DCUM will tell you). The only place where this is absolutely a problem is English (MS and Grade 9/10). Choosing an advance SS, Science or Math is a different experience.

What percentage of MCPS high schools do not opt into the Honors-for-All model that is dominant in the DCC and NEC?

Many of the posted documents on school sites still show on-level classes being offered, but in reality they will only offer the Honors class. With the exception of math, which as others have said, still often has on-level options.

So in other words, the PP who is attempting to act like Honors-for-All isn't pervasive throughout MCPS high schools, is attempting to obfuscate and gaslight.

Not gaslighting. There are plenty of science, math, and social studies classes not labeled honors or AP/IB thus they are on-level. Just because DCUM is saying only honors classes are offered and everything below that is remedial doesn’t make it so.

They may show up in the course listings but do you know if there is anyone currently enrolled in them? At our HS, only honors English, science and social studies classes are available, in terms of the main graduation pathway classes. There are on-level electives of course, and there are some on-level math classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS does not call everything Honors now and yes there are plenty of in level classes and plenty of kids talking them (Despite what DCUM will tell you). The only place where this is absolutely a problem is English (MS and Grade 9/10). Choosing an advance SS, Science or Math is a different experience.

What percentage of MCPS high schools do not opt into the Honors-for-All model that is dominant in the DCC and NEC?

Many of the posted documents on school sites still show on-level classes being offered, but in reality they will only offer the Honors class. With the exception of math, which as others have said, still often has on-level options.

So in other words, the PP who is attempting to act like Honors-for-All isn't pervasive throughout MCPS high schools, is attempting to obfuscate and gaslight.

I don't want to ascribe malice where ignorance might do, but that PP is wrong even if they don't think they are lying. Honors for All is absolutely pervasive, despite on-level still showing up in the course catalog. Those classes don't exist.

This creates a challenge for even bright 9th and 10th graders. For Social Studies, they can take AP US History and AP Government, but they are stuck with "Honors" English with readings that aren't even at grade level, let alone accelerated.

For science, they are in an even worse bind because "Honors" Biology and "Honors" Chemistry are pre-requisites for the AP courses but they are not preparing kids for the AP classes because the class is taught at a remedial level. It used to be that bright and motivated kids took Honors science to prep for AP science classes, but now that the pre-requisites are so watered down, the kids are showing up for AP unprepared.

+1 My DC went from "Honors" English 10 and "Honors" Chem (As/Bs) to AP Eng and AP Chem, and they are struggling in AP Chem.

The honors moniker is a joke and doesn't serve any of the kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS does not call everything Honors now and yes there are plenty of in level classes and plenty of kids talking them (Despite what DCUM will tell you). The only place where this is absolutely a problem is English (MS and Grade 9/10). Choosing an advance SS, Science or Math is a different experience.

What percentage of MCPS high schools do not opt into the Honors-for-All model that is dominant in the DCC and NEC?

Many of the posted documents on school sites still show on-level classes being offered, but in reality they will only offer the Honors class. With the exception of math, which as others have said, still often has on-level options.

So in other words, the PP who is attempting to act like Honors-for-All isn't pervasive throughout MCPS high schools, is attempting to obfuscate and gaslight.

Not gaslighting. There are plenty of science, math, and social studies classes not labeled honors or AP/IB thus they are on-level. Just because DCUM is saying only honors classes are offered and everything below that is remedial doesn’t make it so.

They may show up in the course listings but do you know if there is anyone currently enrolled in them? At our HS, only honors English, science and social studies classes are available, in terms of the main graduation pathway classes. There are on-level electives of course, and there are some on-level math classes.

+1 just because they are in the catalog doesn't mean it's actually offered at the school. They push too many kids who are not ready into the "honors" classes so that the numbers look good, and certain people's feelings don't get hurt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS does not call everything Honors now and yes there are plenty of in level classes and plenty of kids talking them (Despite what DCUM will tell you). The only place where this is absolutely a problem is English (MS and Grade 9/10). Choosing an advance SS, Science or Math is a different experience.

What percentage of MCPS high schools do not opt into the Honors-for-All model that is dominant in the DCC and NEC?

Many of the posted documents on school sites still show on-level classes being offered, but in reality they will only offer the Honors class. With the exception of math, which as others have said, still often has on-level options.

So in other words, the PP who is attempting to act like Honors-for-All isn't pervasive throughout MCPS high schools, is attempting to obfuscate and gaslight.

Not gaslighting. There are plenty of science, math, and social studies classes not labeled honors or AP/IB thus they are on-level. Just because DCUM is saying only honors classes are offered and everything below that is remedial doesn’t make it so.

They may show up in the course listings but do you know if there is anyone currently enrolled in them? At our HS, only honors English, science and social studies classes are available, in terms of the main graduation pathway classes. There are on-level electives of course, and there are some on-level math classes.

+1 just because they are in the catalog doesn't mean it's actually offered at the school. They push too many kids who are not ready into the "honors" classes so that the numbers look good, and certain people's feelings don't get hurt.

It's that classic MCPS thing where there is good reason for a policy change, but because MCPS is incapable of handling anything with nuance, they make broad changes that make the problem they're trying to solve worse.

The reasons behind the "Honors-for-All" movement are understandable. There WAS racism and gatekeeping with honors classes before. The criteria was non-existent or unevenly applied at the expense of keeping mainly Black kids out of honors classes. But instead of doing the meticulous work of fleshing out the criteria for students to qualify for an honors and ensure that criteria was being applied with fidelity and fairness to mitigate racist teachers and admin from snuffing out promising Black students' potential, they decided to just make Honors the default for everybody.

Anyone with two functional brain cells knows that if you make everyone special then no one is special. I don't really know why the folks within in MCPS who lobbied for and implemented Honors-for-All couldn't foresee or didn't care about the obvious downsides to this approach. But here we are, stuck with cleaning up the consequential mess of their decisions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MCPS does not call everything Honors now and yes there are plenty of in level classes and plenty of kids talking them (Despite what DCUM will tell you). The only place where this is absolutely a problem is English (MS and Grade 9/10). Choosing an advance SS, Science or Math is a different experience.

In some schools science now also has an honors for all model. For example at B-CC everyone takes honors bio.

Agree that English is the biggest problem though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hi there, I'm a parent of a rising high schooler.

It seems that MCPS calls everything "Honors" now. Are there really any regular level classes? Is there a real substantive difference between Honors and AP versions of the same class? Or is this just a nomenclature difference? For reference, when I was in MCPS school in the 90s, we had regular level, Honors, and very few AP options, and the AP classes were a lot harder and more in depth than the Honors classes. Seems there are a LOT more AP classes now which is great, but I fear there is a great watering down effect happening. Appreciate any guidance.

Honors is regular these days. There is no regular. Honors for all you know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hi there, I'm a parent of a rising high schooler.

It seems that MCPS calls everything "Honors" now. Are there really any regular level classes? Is there a real substantive difference between Honors and AP versions of the same class? Or is this just a nomenclature difference? For reference, when I was in MCPS school in the 90s, we had regular level, Honors, and very few AP options, and the AP classes were a lot harder and more in depth than the Honors classes. Seems there are a LOT more AP classes now which is great, but I fear there is a great watering down effect happening. Appreciate any guidance.

The general rule now is that Honors courses are considered standard, while AP and IB are viewed as higher level. Universities prefer to see students taking the most challenging courses available to them. An A in an Honors class doesn’t stand out as much as an A, or even a B, in the AP or IB version—if the school offers one.

[Anonymous]

This is all so disappointing. Thank you for those providing helpful responses. I especially appreciate the response that explained why we are in this predicament in the first place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS does not call everything Honors now and yes there are plenty of in level classes and plenty of kids talking them (Despite what DCUM will tell you). The only place where this is absolutely a problem is English (MS and Grade 9/10). Choosing an advance SS, Science or Math is a different experience.

What percentage of MCPS high schools do not opt into the Honors-for-All model that is dominant in the DCC and NEC?

Many of the posted documents on school sites still show on-level classes being offered, but in reality they will only offer the Honors class. With the exception of math, which as others have said, still often has on-level options.

So in other words, the PP who is attempting to act like Honors-for-All isn't pervasive throughout MCPS high schools, is attempting to obfuscate and gaslight.

I don't want to ascribe malice where ignorance might do, but that PP is wrong even if they don't think they are lying. Honors for All is absolutely pervasive, despite on-level still showing up in the course catalog. Those classes don't exist.

This creates a challenge for even bright 9th and 10th graders. For Social Studies, they can take AP US History and AP Government, but they are stuck with "Honors" English with readings that aren't even at grade level, let alone accelerated.

For science, they are in an even worse bind because "Honors" Biology and "Honors" Chemistry are pre-requisites for the AP courses but they are not preparing kids for the AP classes because the class is taught at a remedial level. It used to be that bright and motivated kids took Honors science to prep for AP science classes, but now that the pre-requisites are so watered down, the kids are showing up for AP unprepared.

AP Bio and Chem classes are double-period, so kids don't need to be prepared.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS does not call everything Honors now and yes there are plenty of in level classes and plenty of kids talking them (Despite what DCUM will tell you). The only place where this is absolutely a problem is English (MS and Grade 9/10). Choosing an advance SS, Science or Math is a different experience.

What percentage of MCPS high schools do not opt into the Honors-for-All model that is dominant in the DCC and NEC?

Many of the posted documents on school sites still show on-level classes being offered, but in reality they will only offer the Honors class. With the exception of math, which as others have said, still often has on-level options.

So in other words, the PP who is attempting to act like Honors-for-All isn't pervasive throughout MCPS high schools, is attempting to obfuscate and gaslight.

Not gaslighting. There are plenty of science, math, and social studies classes not labeled honors or AP/IB thus they are on-level. Just because DCUM is saying only honors classes are offered and everything below that is remedial doesn’t make it so.

They may show up in the course listings but do you know if there is anyone currently enrolled in them? At our HS, only honors English, science and social studies classes are available, in terms of the main graduation pathway classes. There are on-level electives of course, and there are some on-level math classes.

+1 just because they are in the catalog doesn't mean it's actually offered at the school. They push too many kids who are not ready into the "honors" classes so that the numbers look good, and certain people's feelings don't get hurt.

It's that classic MCPS thing where there is good reason for a policy change, but because MCPS is incapable of handling anything with nuance, they make broad changes that make the problem they're trying to solve worse.

The reasons behind the "Honors-for-All" movement are understandable. There WAS racism and gatekeeping with honors classes before. The criteria was non-existent or unevenly applied at the expense of keeping mainly Black kids out of honors classes. But instead of doing the meticulous work of fleshing out the criteria for students to qualify for an honors and ensure that criteria was being applied with fidelity and fairness to mitigate racist teachers and admin from snuffing out promising Black students' potential, they decided to just make Honors the default for everybody.

Anyone with two functional brain cells knows that if you make everyone special then no one is special. I don't really know why the folks within in MCPS who lobbied for and implemented Honors-for-All couldn't foresee or didn't care about the obvious downsides to this approach. But here we are, stuck with cleaning up the consequential mess of their decisions.

There wasn't racism keeping Black kids out of honors.

There was an inconvenient demographic truth that the county leadership wanted to paper over.

[Anonymous]

That way everyone’s weighted gpa is higher.