Serious question: why are tech suits allowed in summer league dual meets?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t have a direct stake because my kids are all 12U.

That said, I am baffled by the willful ignorance and those being intentionally obtuse. People care for the same reason they care about the club swimmers coming in and dominating all the A meets. There are a lot of people across the metro area who cannot pay thousands for club swim or $600 for a suit that is only good for a few wears. Both the suit and access to club swim give kids a significant advantage over the traditional summer swim only kids whose family dues and swim team membership are several hundred dollars combined.

I'm baffled by people that think club swimmers shouldn't be allowed in summer swim. Would there even be a league if you did this? Our team would lose about 1/3rd of swimmers/families. Good luck raising dues by 33% and requiring the remaining families to pick up the volunteer slots.

A large part of the motivation for my kids to swim club is so they can swim A meets in the summer.

Nowhere did I say club swimmers shouldn’t be allowed in summer swim. I just think one is being deliberately obtuse to not understand why people have a problem with kids wearing $600 swim suits that give them an edge on top of the fact those same kids are benefiting from the expensive year round training that others cannot afford.

Surely, you can understand that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At our meets this summer, it was mostly parents of opposing teams complaining about kids wearing tech suits. One guy in particular was a real whiner about it. Really his frustration is his kids didn’t come ready to race and got crushed. But he was blaming it on the suits. The suits helps some, but really they are a mindset thing. By wearing a suit you are saying I am here to swim fast. His kids were too lazy to swim fast.

Yes! This was definitely the story at some whiney MCSL racers this year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the logic of Divisionals and All Stars being different from the rest.

Divisionals and All Stars should be the opportunity for kids who love summer swim to shine. Instead they seem to be opportunities for club swimmers who invest very little in summer swim to show off.

“Invest very little time in summer swim”? What is the basis for your statement? Our team club swimmers are highly involved in summer swim, leaving high, high level meet prelims sessions at championship LC meets to race back for a summer league meet, only to then race back for LC finals. Our club swimmers even ensure to travel back after out-of-state meets to be there for the A Meet. None of this is because they need individual summer league accolades. They come back to help the team. I don’t recall a pep rally or team outing where all our club swimmers did not attend, barring illness.

Come on. I know of no swimmers doing high, high level meet prelims, then a summer league meet, and then going back for finals that night at the high level meet. There are plenty of high level club swimmers that participate in and enjoy summer swim but none do the craziness that you just described.

Well, they do on our team and on the team we competed against on 7/15. And our swimmers who have been competing out of town have absolutely come back sooner than they probably would have to compete at our A Meet.

7/15 was a Monday, please name me the high level meet that had prelims on that day and the summer league team that had an important meet that day. I’ll wait because there were none. You don’t need to just make sh!t up to prove the point that elite swimmers enjoy summer swim. No elite swimmer is doing prelims at a high level club meet, then dashing across town to swim in a summer league meet, and then dashing back to the elite club meet to do finals. It’s just not happening.

PVS Champs, 7/13 — clearly the poster just had a typo. Ask teams in D1 and D2 if their swimmers did this. Because we saw it at our D1 meet with two 15-18 swimmers, one from each team. Better yet, check the roster for who swam PVS Champs and NVSL that day. Moreover, why do you care? The point is club kids DO care about their summer teams and, especially in D1, they even find ways to make club and summer league meets.

MCSL Division E. I can tell you no one on either team in our meet swam both that day.

I do not know a single high level RMSC kid who swam both that day, no matter their MCSL division (but that doesn't mean it didn't happen).

[Anonymous]

Just because you’re only dabbling in swim doesn’t mean that kids who take swim seriously should not be able to participate to the max. And yes, in swim, that includes tech suits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t have a direct stake because my kids are all 12U.

That said, I am baffled by the willful ignorance and those being intentionally obtuse. People care for the same reason they care about the club swimmers coming in and dominating all the A meets. There are a lot of people across the metro area who cannot pay thousands for club swim or $600 for a suit that is only good for a few wears. Both the suit and access to club swim give kids a significant advantage over the traditional summer swim only kids whose family dues and swim team membership are several hundred dollars combined.

I'm baffled by people that think club swimmers shouldn't be allowed in summer swim. Would there even be a league if you did this? Our team would lose about 1/3rd of swimmers/families. Good luck raising dues by 33% and requiring the remaining families to pick up the volunteer slots.

A large part of the motivation for my kids to swim club is so they can swim A meets in the summer.

Nowhere did I say club swimmers shouldn’t be allowed in summer swim. I just think one is being deliberately obtuse to not understand why people have a problem with kids wearing $600 swim suits that give them an edge on top of the fact those same kids are benefiting from the expensive year round training that others cannot afford.

Surely, you can understand that.

I find this so odd...

My club swimmers play other sports including Little League. It has never once occurred to me to think the travel players have an "advantage" over my kid. I never even thought of being upset that some players have $350 bats and private coaching. I mean it's competition/sport. Players that practice/play more often are going to have an advantage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t have a direct stake because my kids are all 12U.

That said, I am baffled by the willful ignorance and those being intentionally obtuse. People care for the same reason they care about the club swimmers coming in and dominating all the A meets. There are a lot of people across the metro area who cannot pay thousands for club swim or $600 for a suit that is only good for a few wears. Both the suit and access to club swim give kids a significant advantage over the traditional summer swim only kids whose family dues and swim team membership are several hundred dollars combined.

I'm baffled by people that think club swimmers shouldn't be allowed in summer swim. Would there even be a league if you did this? Our team would lose about 1/3rd of swimmers/families. Good luck raising dues by 33% and requiring the remaining families to pick up the volunteer slots.

A large part of the motivation for my kids to swim club is so they can swim A meets in the summer.

Nowhere did I say club swimmers shouldn’t be allowed in summer swim. I just think one is being deliberately obtuse to not understand why people have a problem with kids wearing $600 swim suits that give them an edge on top of the fact those same kids are benefiting from the expensive year round training that others cannot afford.

Surely, you can understand that.

1. None of these kids are wearing $600 suits

2. None of these kids are wearing new tech suits and tech suits are really beneficial the first handful of wears.

3. Do you really think it is black and white: club swimmers can fund club swimming and all non club swimmers can’t afford it? It would be a very tiny percent in NVSL where there are kids doing summer team who want to do club swim but can’t afford it and can’t get it discounted. The vast majority don’t want to do club swim.

[Anonymous]

It's summer swim. It doesn't matter.

Your competition is whoever happens to be nearby.
Winning doesn't mean anything.

Beating your own PR in a fancy suit just means it's harder to beat it later without your fancy suit.

Stop whining.

I'll send an All Natural Champion ribbon to anyone who loses a race to someone in a tech suit.

[Anonymous]

Part of the desire to wear a "tech suit" (or knee skins) is because the kids wear them during year round swimming and are used to competing in them. Having to wear a suit that feels weird/different can throw a psychological wrench in things.

For MCSL 12&U, the rules allow a knee skin suit with a specific check mark. If the goal is to ensure that everyone is on a level playing field by wearing a normal suit, then why have this exception?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t have a direct stake because my kids are all 12U.

That said, I am baffled by the willful ignorance and those being intentionally obtuse. People care for the same reason they care about the club swimmers coming in and dominating all the A meets. There are a lot of people across the metro area who cannot pay thousands for club swim or $600 for a suit that is only good for a few wears. Both the suit and access to club swim give kids a significant advantage over the traditional summer swim only kids whose family dues and swim team membership are several hundred dollars combined.

All the posts justifying wearing these suits, prove my point. “My kid only wears it to qualify for all stars or in a close meet.”

This is a recreational league, allowance of expensive swimsuits that give an advantage to a swimmer is certainly unfair, even if it is within the rules.

You don’t think this same discrepancy between the haves / have nots are in every other sports? Come on. At the Olympic level there was just a story about a woman’s team that didn’t have cleats. It’s everywhere and in every sport.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t have a direct stake because my kids are all 12U.

That said, I am baffled by the willful ignorance and those being intentionally obtuse. People care for the same reason they care about the club swimmers coming in and dominating all the A meets. There are a lot of people across the metro area who cannot pay thousands for club swim or $600 for a suit that is only good for a few wears. Both the suit and access to club swim give kids a significant advantage over the traditional summer swim only kids whose family dues and swim team membership are several hundred dollars combined.

All the posts justifying wearing these suits, prove my point. “My kid only wears it to qualify for all stars or in a close meet.”

This is a recreational league, allowance of expensive swimsuits that give an advantage to a swimmer is certainly unfair, even if it is within the rules.

You don’t think this same discrepancy between the haves / have nots are in every other sports? Come on. At the Olympic level there was just a story about a woman’s team that didn’t have cleats. It’s everywhere and in every sport.

And most people complaining about tech suits I’ve found, are peoples who’s kids have a half dozen of them, and just choose not to wear them at MCSL meets. These kids get beat at their meets and the parents are frustrated and blame it on the tech suit externality. In reality, the suits are more of a mindset. The kids who care wear them and kick the butt of the kids who aren’t locked in and choose not wear theirs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t have a direct stake because my kids are all 12U.

That said, I am baffled by the willful ignorance and those being intentionally obtuse. People care for the same reason they care about the club swimmers coming in and dominating all the A meets. There are a lot of people across the metro area who cannot pay thousands for club swim or $600 for a suit that is only good for a few wears. Both the suit and access to club swim give kids a significant advantage over the traditional summer swim only kids whose family dues and swim team membership are several hundred dollars combined.

All the posts justifying wearing these suits, prove my point. “My kid only wears it to qualify for all stars or in a close meet.”

This is a recreational league, allowance of expensive swimsuits that give an advantage to a swimmer is certainly unfair, even if it is within the rules.

You don’t think this same discrepancy between the haves / have nots are in every other sports? Come on. At the Olympic level there was just a story about a woman’s team that didn’t have cleats. It’s everywhere and in every sport.

And most people complaining about tech suits I’ve found, are peoples who’s kids have a half dozen of them, and just choose not to wear them at MCSL meets. These kids get beat at their meets and the parents are frustrated and blame it on the tech suit externality. In reality, the suits are more of a mindset. The kids who care wear them and kick the butt of the kids who aren’t locked in and choose not wear theirs.

at our pool you can only wear if coach tells u that u can. So number 2 on the ladder doesn’t get to because 1 is closer to the record, and then they get closer or break it and drop time while you time might stay stagnant. Tech suits ruin summer swim. It is demoralizing to compete against them if you’re not allowed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t have a direct stake because my kids are all 12U.

That said, I am baffled by the willful ignorance and those being intentionally obtuse. People care for the same reason they care about the club swimmers coming in and dominating all the A meets. There are a lot of people across the metro area who cannot pay thousands for club swim or $600 for a suit that is only good for a few wears. Both the suit and access to club swim give kids a significant advantage over the traditional summer swim only kids whose family dues and swim team membership are several hundred dollars combined.

All the posts justifying wearing these suits, prove my point. “My kid only wears it to qualify for all stars or in a close meet.”

This is a recreational league, allowance of expensive swimsuits that give an advantage to a swimmer is certainly unfair, even if it is within the rules.

You don’t think this same discrepancy between the haves / have nots are in every other sports? Come on. At the Olympic level there was just a story about a woman’s team that didn’t have cleats. It’s everywhere and in every sport.

DP. USA swimming specifically banned tech suits for 12U because they didn’t want them to be a barrier to entry to a sport that otherwise does not require expensive equipment.

How would you feel if 7 and 8 year olds in rec summer swim were wearing $500 tech suits? Is that ok because every sport has rich kids and poor kids? The only reason there are no tech suits to be purchased in toddler sizes is because USA swimming made a good decision by banning those suits for 12u. That is the only reason why manufacturers don’t make them. It can be a good thing when organizations make rules to emphasize accessibility and discourage throwing money at youth sports, rec or otherwise. I bet there are plenty of dance, gymnastics and cheer parents who wish someone would curb how expensive the uniforms and costumes are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t have a direct stake because my kids are all 12U.

That said, I am baffled by the willful ignorance and those being intentionally obtuse. People care for the same reason they care about the club swimmers coming in and dominating all the A meets. There are a lot of people across the metro area who cannot pay thousands for club swim or $600 for a suit that is only good for a few wears. Both the suit and access to club swim give kids a significant advantage over the traditional summer swim only kids whose family dues and swim team membership are several hundred dollars combined.

I'm baffled by people that think club swimmers shouldn't be allowed in summer swim. Would there even be a league if you did this? Our team would lose about 1/3rd of swimmers/families. Good luck raising dues by 33% and requiring the remaining families to pick up the volunteer slots.

A large part of the motivation for my kids to swim club is so they can swim A meets in the summer.

Nowhere did I say club swimmers shouldn’t be allowed in summer swim. I just think one is being deliberately obtuse to not understand why people have a problem with kids wearing $600 swim suits that give them an edge on top of the fact those same kids are benefiting from the expensive year round training that others cannot afford.

Surely, you can understand that.

2. None of these kids are wearing new tech suits and tech suits are really beneficial the first handful of wears.

This part is not true at all. Most tech suits are extremely beneficial for a ton of swims. This is a myth that the suit companies want you to believe, that a suit only has power for a certain amount of swims

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t have a direct stake because my kids are all 12U.

That said, I am baffled by the willful ignorance and those being intentionally obtuse. People care for the same reason they care about the club swimmers coming in and dominating all the A meets. There are a lot of people across the metro area who cannot pay thousands for club swim or $600 for a suit that is only good for a few wears. Both the suit and access to club swim give kids a significant advantage over the traditional summer swim only kids whose family dues and swim team membership are several hundred dollars combined.

I'm baffled by people that think club swimmers shouldn't be allowed in summer swim. Would there even be a league if you did this? Our team would lose about 1/3rd of swimmers/families. Good luck raising dues by 33% and requiring the remaining families to pick up the volunteer slots.

A large part of the motivation for my kids to swim club is so they can swim A meets in the summer.

Nowhere did I say club swimmers shouldn’t be allowed in summer swim. I just think one is being deliberately obtuse to not understand why people have a problem with kids wearing $600 swim suits that give them an edge on top of the fact those same kids are benefiting from the expensive year round training that others cannot afford.

Surely, you can understand that.

2. None of these kids are wearing new tech suits and tech suits are really beneficial the first handful of wears.

This part is not true at all. Most tech suits are extremely beneficial for a ton of swims. This is a myth that the suit companies want you to believe, that a suit only has power for a certain amount of swims

You are incorrect. It is evident to any swimmer that the suit is easier to put on after it has been worn in water for an event…which means struggling to get it on, keeping it on thru an event (or events). It is always easier to get on each subsequent time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t have a direct stake because my kids are all 12U.

That said, I am baffled by the willful ignorance and those being intentionally obtuse. People care for the same reason they care about the club swimmers coming in and dominating all the A meets. There are a lot of people across the metro area who cannot pay thousands for club swim or $600 for a suit that is only good for a few wears. Both the suit and access to club swim give kids a significant advantage over the traditional summer swim only kids whose family dues and swim team membership are several hundred dollars combined.

All the posts justifying wearing these suits, prove my point. “My kid only wears it to qualify for all stars or in a close meet.”

This is a recreational league, allowance of expensive swimsuits that give an advantage to a swimmer is certainly unfair, even if it is within the rules.

You don’t think this same discrepancy between the haves / have nots are in every other sports? Come on. At the Olympic level there was just a story about a woman’s team that didn’t have cleats. It’s everywhere and in every sport.

And most people complaining about tech suits I’ve found, are peoples who’s kids have a half dozen of them, and just choose not to wear them at MCSL meets. These kids get beat at their meets and the parents are frustrated and blame it on the tech suit externality. In reality, the suits are more of a mindset. The kids who care wear them and kick the butt of the kids who aren’t locked in and choose not wear theirs.

Out coach told good A meet swimmers to wear tech suits in one certain week and let them know to target that dual meet to achieve good times. (i.e. all star, coaches LC) My DS only wore tech suit that week. He doesn't like to wear them in normal dual meets. But he had to wear it in All Star relay, individual, coaches LC and divisional cause almost all the other kids wear tech suits. He thinks it's kind of embarrassing to wear them in dual meets though. Either way, I don't have any problem swimmers wearing or not wearing tech suits.