Serious question: why are tech suits allowed in summer league dual meets?

[Anonymous]

My kid has worn a tech suit to a dual meet. I discourage it, but it’s generally for a very specific reason (trying to get a time that qualifies them qualify for coaches long coarse or individual all stars).

I’d be happy if they were banned, but given that my kid already owns one and the other club swimmers in those meets do the same, I don’t feel like I can forbid it. It would be a very very rare teenage all star swimmer who doesn’t swim club.

Other times they’ve wanted to wear them is if a meet is supposed to be close and they’re swimming against someone with a very similar seed time. In that case, it’s about getting the team the win.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the logic of Divisionals and All Stars being different from the rest.

Divisionals and All Stars should be the opportunity for kids who love summer swim to shine. Instead they seem to be opportunities for club swimmers who invest very little in summer swim to show off.

“Invest very little time in summer swim”? What is the basis for your statement? Our team club swimmers are highly involved in summer swim, leaving high, high level meet prelims sessions at championship LC meets to race back for a summer league meet, only to then race back for LC finals. Our club swimmers even ensure to travel back after out-of-state meets to be there for the A Meet. None of this is because they need individual summer league accolades. They come back to help the team. I don’t recall a pep rally or team outing where all our club swimmers did not attend, barring illness.

Come on. I know of no swimmers doing high, high level meet prelims, then a summer league meet, and then going back for finals that night at the high level meet. There are plenty of high level club swimmers that participate in and enjoy summer swim but none do the craziness that you just described.

Well, they do on our team and on the team we competed against on 7/15. And our swimmers who have been competing out of town have absolutely come back sooner than they probably would have to compete at our A Meet.

7/15 was a Monday, please name me the high level meet that had prelims on that day and the summer league team that had an important meet that day. I’ll wait because there were none. You don’t need to just make sh!t up to prove the point that elite swimmers enjoy summer swim. No elite swimmer is doing prelims at a high level club meet, then dashing across town to swim in a summer league meet, and then dashing back to the elite club meet to do finals. It’s just not happening.

PVS Champs, 7/13 — clearly the poster just had a typo. Ask teams in D1 and D2 if their swimmers did this. Because we saw it at our D1 meet with two 15-18 swimmers, one from each team. Better yet, check the roster for who swam PVS Champs and NVSL that day. Moreover, why do you care? The point is club kids DO care about their summer teams and, especially in D1, they even find ways to make club and summer league meets.

Why do people need to lie? Prelims on 7/13 in College Park started at 8:30 am, so no swimmers were swimming prelims and then making it to an NVSL meet. I’m sure there were swimmers that didn’t have an event on 7/13 at PVS champs that swam at an NVSL meet that morning. But I defy you to name someone that actually swam in College Park on 7/13 in prelims and also swam their NVSL meet that morning. I don’t care that much but the blatant lies people tell are too easy to call out.

Our D1 meet had a swimmer come from champs and swim an event that sat- fly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid has worn a tech suit to a dual meet. I discourage it, but it’s generally for a very specific reason (trying to get a time that qualifies them qualify for coaches long coarse or individual all stars).

I’d be happy if they were banned, but given that my kid already owns one and the other club swimmers in those meets do the same, I don’t feel like I can forbid it. It would be a very very rare teenage all star swimmer who doesn’t swim club.

Other times they’ve wanted to wear them is if a meet is supposed to be close and they’re swimming against someone with a very similar seed time. In that case, it’s about getting the team the win.

We are talking summer league and you mention long course and all stars in the same sentence.

Wearing a tech suit to beat a kid in a dual meet is BS.

[Anonymous]

I’ll respond…Club swimmer DC who wears tech suit under the following summer league (NVSL) circumstances:
1. Divisional relays (trying to make All Star Relays)
2. All Star Relay
3. Divisionals (trying to make individual All Stars)
4 All Stars
5. Dual meet when trying to break team records

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the logic of Divisionals and All Stars being different from the rest.

Divisionals and All Stars should be the opportunity for kids who love summer swim to shine. Instead they seem to be opportunities for club swimmers who invest very little in summer swim to show off.

“Invest very little time in summer swim”? What is the basis for your statement? Our team club swimmers are highly involved in summer swim, leaving high, high level meet prelims sessions at championship LC meets to race back for a summer league meet, only to then race back for LC finals. Our club swimmers even ensure to travel back after out-of-state meets to be there for the A Meet. None of this is because they need individual summer league accolades. They come back to help the team. I don’t recall a pep rally or team outing where all our club swimmers did not attend, barring illness.

Come on. I know of no swimmers doing high, high level meet prelims, then a summer league meet, and then going back for finals that night at the high level meet. There are plenty of high level club swimmers that participate in and enjoy summer swim but none do the craziness that you just described.

Well, they do on our team and on the team we competed against on 7/15. And our swimmers who have been competing out of town have absolutely come back sooner than they probably would have to compete at our A Meet.

7/15 was a Monday, please name me the high level meet that had prelims on that day and the summer league team that had an important meet that day. I’ll wait because there were none. You don’t need to just make sh!t up to prove the point that elite swimmers enjoy summer swim. No elite swimmer is doing prelims at a high level club meet, then dashing across town to swim in a summer league meet, and then dashing back to the elite club meet to do finals. It’s just not happening.

PVS Champs, 7/13 — clearly the poster just had a typo. Ask teams in D1 and D2 if their swimmers did this. Because we saw it at our D1 meet with two 15-18 swimmers, one from each team. Better yet, check the roster for who swam PVS Champs and NVSL that day. Moreover, why do you care? The point is club kids DO care about their summer teams and, especially in D1, they even find ways to make club and summer league meets.

Why do people need to lie? Prelims on 7/13 in College Park started at 8:30 am, so no swimmers were swimming prelims and then making it to an NVSL meet. I’m sure there were swimmers that didn’t have an event on 7/13 at PVS champs that swam at an NVSL meet that morning. But I defy you to name someone that actually swam in College Park on 7/13 in prelims and also swam their NVSL meet that morning. I don’t care that much but the blatant lies people tell are too easy to call out.

Our D1 meet had a swimmer come from champs and swim an event that sat- fly.

Ours too.
200 Fly - Sat 7/13 prelims and finals
https://www.pvswim.org/2324meet/24-106rw.html

D1 - Results - 7/13
https://www.mynvsl.com/schedules?year=2024&div=&date=20240713

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the logic of Divisionals and All Stars being different from the rest.

Divisionals and All Stars should be the opportunity for kids who love summer swim to shine. Instead they seem to be opportunities for club swimmers who invest very little in summer swim to show off.

“Invest very little time in summer swim”? What is the basis for your statement? Our team club swimmers are highly involved in summer swim, leaving high, high level meet prelims sessions at championship LC meets to race back for a summer league meet, only to then race back for LC finals. Our club swimmers even ensure to travel back after out-of-state meets to be there for the A Meet. None of this is because they need individual summer league accolades. They come back to help the team. I don’t recall a pep rally or team outing where all our club swimmers did not attend, barring illness.

Come on. I know of no swimmers doing high, high level meet prelims, then a summer league meet, and then going back for finals that night at the high level meet. There are plenty of high level club swimmers that participate in and enjoy summer swim but none do the craziness that you just described.

Well, they do on our team and on the team we competed against on 7/15. And our swimmers who have been competing out of town have absolutely come back sooner than they probably would have to compete at our A Meet.

7/15 was a Monday, please name me the high level meet that had prelims on that day and the summer league team that had an important meet that day. I’ll wait because there were none. You don’t need to just make sh!t up to prove the point that elite swimmers enjoy summer swim. No elite swimmer is doing prelims at a high level club meet, then dashing across town to swim in a summer league meet, and then dashing back to the elite club meet to do finals. It’s just not happening.

PVS Champs, 7/13 — clearly the poster just had a typo. Ask teams in D1 and D2 if their swimmers did this. Because we saw it at our D1 meet with two 15-18 swimmers, one from each team. Better yet, check the roster for who swam PVS Champs and NVSL that day. Moreover, why do you care? The point is club kids DO care about their summer teams and, especially in D1, they even find ways to make club and summer league meets.

Why do people need to lie? Prelims on 7/13 in College Park started at 8:30 am, so no swimmers were swimming prelims and then making it to an NVSL meet. I’m sure there were swimmers that didn’t have an event on 7/13 at PVS champs that swam at an NVSL meet that morning. But I defy you to name someone that actually swam in College Park on 7/13 in prelims and also swam their NVSL meet that morning. I don’t care that much but the blatant lies people tell are too easy to call out.

Our D1 meet had a swimmer come from champs and swim an event that sat- fly.

Ours too.
200 Fly - Sat 7/13 prelims and finals
https://www.pvswim.org/2324meet/24-106rw.html

D1 - Results - 7/13
https://www.mynvsl.com/schedules?year=2024&div=&date=20240713

D3 also had a swimmer compete LC Champs prelims in the morning, come back to her A meet, and then return to LC Open Champs for finals

I wonder if consummate arguer above takes Tabasco sauce on his/her eggs.

[Anonymous]

Tabasco sauce on eggs is amazing and deserves no place in crazy town.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:D1 pp, you wouldn't be in that division without your club kids...if their presence bothers you, there are many, many lower division teams that would happily enroll your swimmers (mine included).

I would be thrilled to not be in D1! It’s our local pool where all our friends go. Most of us do not care about being in D1 and wish we weren’t and it could be normal summer swim team not dominated by the club kids.

One of my DCs' major reasons for doing club in the first place was to be at their best for summer swim. Other motivations have developed as well, but summer remains really high in their minds. It's a huge incentive for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the logic of Divisionals and All Stars being different from the rest.

Divisionals and All Stars should be the opportunity for kids who love summer swim to shine. Instead they seem to be opportunities for club swimmers who invest very little in summer swim to show off.

“Invest very little time in summer swim”? What is the basis for your statement? Our team club swimmers are highly involved in summer swim, leaving high, high level meet prelims sessions at championship LC meets to race back for a summer league meet, only to then race back for LC finals. Our club swimmers even ensure to travel back after out-of-state meets to be there for the A Meet. None of this is because they need individual summer league accolades. They come back to help the team. I don’t recall a pep rally or team outing where all our club swimmers did not attend, barring illness.

Come on. I know of no swimmers doing high, high level meet prelims, then a summer league meet, and then going back for finals that night at the high level meet. There are plenty of high level club swimmers that participate in and enjoy summer swim but none do the craziness that you just described.

My swimmer did this after PV LC Champs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid has worn a tech suit to a dual meet. I discourage it, but it’s generally for a very specific reason (trying to get a time that qualifies them qualify for coaches long coarse or individual all stars).

I’d be happy if they were banned, but given that my kid already owns one and the other club swimmers in those meets do the same, I don’t feel like I can forbid it. It would be a very very rare teenage all star swimmer who doesn’t swim club.

Other times they’ve wanted to wear them is if a meet is supposed to be close and they’re swimming against someone with a very similar seed time. In that case, it’s about getting the team the win.

We are talking summer league and you mention long course and all stars in the same sentence.

Wearing a tech suit to beat a kid in a dual meet is BS.

Why is it BS? In the college ranks, there was a team that suited up for every dual meet, ones that you wouldn’t deem important enough. Yeah I know the resources are much different, but why do you care if a kid wants to go fast in a dual meet? Why is it only allowed at meets you think are important?

[Anonymous]

At our meets this summer, it was mostly parents of opposing teams complaining about kids wearing tech suits. One guy in particular was a real whiner about it. Really his frustration is his kids didn’t come ready to race and got crushed. But he was blaming it on the suits. The suits helps some, but really they are a mindset thing. By wearing a suit you are saying I am here to swim fast. His kids were too lazy to swim fast.

[Anonymous]

If it's legal why do you care? Do you go to Little League games and complain about a kid's legal, but expensive bat? Do you sit on the first tee at golf courses and tell people teeing off that they aren't good enough for their expensive driver? Do you shame cross country runners for wearing spikes to a race instead of regular running shoes?

Such a silly thing to care so much about...

[Anonymous]

I don’t have a direct stake because my kids are all 12U.

That said, I am baffled by the willful ignorance and those being intentionally obtuse. People care for the same reason they care about the club swimmers coming in and dominating all the A meets. There are a lot of people across the metro area who cannot pay thousands for club swim or $600 for a suit that is only good for a few wears. Both the suit and access to club swim give kids a significant advantage over the traditional summer swim only kids whose family dues and swim team membership are several hundred dollars combined.

All the posts justifying wearing these suits, prove my point. “My kid only wears it to qualify for all stars or in a close meet.”

This is a recreational league, allowance of expensive swimsuits that give an advantage to a swimmer is certainly unfair, even if it is within the rules.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t have a direct stake because my kids are all 12U.

That said, I am baffled by the willful ignorance and those being intentionally obtuse. People care for the same reason they care about the club swimmers coming in and dominating all the A meets. There are a lot of people across the metro area who cannot pay thousands for club swim or $600 for a suit that is only good for a few wears. Both the suit and access to club swim give kids a significant advantage over the traditional summer swim only kids whose family dues and swim team membership are several hundred dollars combined.

I'm baffled by people that think club swimmers shouldn't be allowed in summer swim. Would there even be a league if you did this? Our team would lose about 1/3rd of swimmers/families. Good luck raising dues by 33% and requiring the remaining families to pick up the volunteer slots.

A large part of the motivation for my kids to swim club is so they can swim A meets in the summer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid has worn a tech suit to a dual meet. I discourage it, but it’s generally for a very specific reason (trying to get a time that qualifies them qualify for coaches long coarse or individual all stars).

I’d be happy if they were banned, but given that my kid already owns one and the other club swimmers in those meets do the same, I don’t feel like I can forbid it. It would be a very very rare teenage all star swimmer who doesn’t swim club.

Other times they’ve wanted to wear them is if a meet is supposed to be close and they’re swimming against someone with a very similar seed time. In that case, it’s about getting the team the win.

Same. Fine to ban it, but club 15-18 swimmers have a collection of older tech suits they will happily don if they aim to put up a good time,