ATS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:we are another happy family at ATS and so grateful we got in.

two kids are currently there. one of them was an above average reader going into the school. since he is so advanced he has been given the same amount of work but at a bit more advanced level. his teachers have also gone above and beyond in providing extra stuff for him too for over the summer and during the week if it's needed.

our other child that attends ATS is very much average in all subjects and has also had a positive experience.

I just don't understand why they don't do this at all of the schools.

Me too!

The model requires parent and teacher buy-in to be successful and not everyone wants that.

If the instructional model requires parents, it shouldn't be a specified unique educational model. All "instructional models" benefit with parental support.
So, what part of the instructional model requires parental buy-in? Completing homework? or adhering to the dress code? Same would apply to the success of any school.

NP. The point is that kids at option schools often perform better than those at neighborhood schools with similar demographics largely because they have parents involved & proactive enough to seek out, learn about, and apply for the option school in the first place. This isn’t a secret.

I understand the point. I've heard it for years and years. And I'm tired of it. Non-option schools can be quite successful, and many in APS are. It's the definition of "success" that seems to be at issue, if having the top scores is the criteria. In any system, one school is going to have the highest scores. Just because a school has lower stats does not mean it is not successful. All ATS does is weed out the more challenging children so that they don't have the demands and challenges of a Barcroft or a Randolp or a Drew. Those students aren't successful because their parents "sought out" and "learned about" and applied for it. It just happens that everyone there has done that. But many students whose parents don't seek to learn about options are equally successful in their neighborhood schools. It's just that you people believe those neighborhood schools aren't as successful as ATS because of all the students (many of who have very involved parents, btw) don't achieve at the same level and therefore drag the overall stats for the school down.

I challenge the ATS teachers to teach at Barcroft or Carlin Springs or Randolph and see how it compares - not because parents sought out ATS; but because those parents fled from those schools and as a group do not pose the same challenges in the same proportions. I believe ATS approach can be successful at any neighborhood school. That doesn't mean every student is going to be valedictorian.

Have you taught at one of those 3 schools? I have and while in many ways it was a lovely community with lots of very capable kids there were also parents who would have fought the ATS way. They didn’t want to or weren’t able to enforce behavior standards on their kid, help with homework or read newsletters. This is also true at the non-title I schools where I have worked.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How does ATS compare to Sidwell/GDS/Beauvoir/Potomac/Maret?

You’re kidding yourselves if you think you’ve got some special school. So it’s better than all of the S Arlington elementaries… So what?

I have looked at all of those and I am paying very close attention to education, although I am not Asian.

For lower Elementary I would rather have ATS over any of those.

For MS and HS, my answer would be different. Then, I would prefer the academics at StA/NCS, Sidwell, GDS, or Potomac.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does ATS compare to Sidwell/GDS/Beauvoir/Potomac/Maret?

You’re kidding yourselves if you think you’ve got some special school. So it’s better than all of the S Arlington elementaries… So what?

I have looked at all of those and I am paying very close attention to education, although I am not Asian.

For lower Elementary I would rather have ATS over any of those.

For MS and HS, my answer would be different. Then, I would prefer the academics at StA/NCS, Sidwell, GDS, or Potomac.

Why? Larger class sizes and mediocre curriculum?

So many ATS families boast about the summer reading challenge. 50 kids books spread over 10 weeks isn’t that big of a deal.

Just because the bar is SO low elsewhere in the district doesn’t mean your school is actually good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does ATS compare to Sidwell/GDS/Beauvoir/Potomac/Maret?

You’re kidding yourselves if you think you’ve got some special school. So it’s better than all of the S Arlington elementaries… So what?

I have looked at all of those and I am paying very close attention to education, although I am not Asian.

For lower Elementary I would rather have ATS over any of those.

For MS and HS, my answer would be different. Then, I would prefer the academics at StA/NCS, Sidwell, GDS, or Potomac.

Why? Larger class sizes and mediocre curriculum?

So many ATS families boast about the summer reading challenge. 50 kids books spread over 10 weeks isn’t that big of a deal.

Just because the bar is SO low elsewhere in the district doesn’t mean your school is actually good.

How many books are the private schools having kids read over the summer?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does ATS compare to Sidwell/GDS/Beauvoir/Potomac/Maret?

You’re kidding yourselves if you think you’ve got some special school. So it’s better than all of the S Arlington elementaries… So what?

I have looked at all of those and I am paying very close attention to education, although I am not Asian.

For lower Elementary I would rather have ATS over any of those.

For MS and HS, my answer would be different. Then, I would prefer the academics at StA/NCS, Sidwell, GDS, or Potomac.

Why? Larger class sizes and mediocre curriculum?

So many ATS families boast about the summer reading challenge. 50 kids books spread over 10 weeks isn’t that big of a deal.

Just because the bar is SO low elsewhere in the district doesn’t mean your school is actually good.

How many books are the private schools having kids read over the summer?

Depends on the school. My son was given a list of novels last summer, not 50 picture books.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does ATS compare to Sidwell/GDS/Beauvoir/Potomac/Maret?

You’re kidding yourselves if you think you’ve got some special school. So it’s better than all of the S Arlington elementaries… So what?

I have looked at all of those and I am paying very close attention to education, although I am not Asian.

For lower Elementary I would rather have ATS over any of those.

For MS and HS, my answer would be different. Then, I would prefer the academics at StA/NCS, Sidwell, GDS, or Potomac.

Why? Larger class sizes and mediocre curriculum?

So many ATS families boast about the summer reading challenge. 50 kids books spread over 10 weeks isn’t that big of a deal.

Just because the bar is SO low elsewhere in the district doesn’t mean your school is actually good.

How many books are the private schools having kids read over the summer?

Depends on the school. My son was given a list of novels last summer, not 50 picture books.

The picture books are for the younger kids. Older kids read novels or non-fiction and get to “50” based on pages.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does ATS compare to Sidwell/GDS/Beauvoir/Potomac/Maret?

You’re kidding yourselves if you think you’ve got some special school. So it’s better than all of the S Arlington elementaries… So what?

I have looked at all of those and I am paying very close attention to education, although I am not Asian.

For lower Elementary I would rather have ATS over any of those.

For MS and HS, my answer would be different. Then, I would prefer the academics at StA/NCS, Sidwell, GDS, or Potomac.

Why? Larger class sizes and mediocre curriculum?d.

Most of the privates you mentioned do have smaller class sizes and more attention, but they also (as of now - 2024) have lower quality lower elementary curricula.

For example, most (possibly all) of those privates are still teaching reading using whole language/balanced literacy, teaching 3-cueing, and using Lucy Calkins and/or Fountas & Pinnell. That approach is a very widely discredited educational fad, but the privates are clinging to it. Please go read the “Sold a Story” podcast about why this is seriously suboptimal. APS used to do the same thing, in all fairness, but threat of a lawsuit from the NAACP (recently) caused APS to shift to a “Science of Reading” curriculum. In APS, unlike say FCPS or ACPS or LCPS, this has been integrated with the Core Knowledge curriculum (which is very different from and unrelated to the “Common Core” watered down curriculum silliness), so kids reading has been integrated with other important early learning.

On the math front, the privates like to talk about how they are using so-called “Singapore Math”, but I used to live in Singapore and what the privates actually use (“Math in Focus” et alia) is very far from being Singapore math. In fairness, those curricula often are marketed/sold to schools as being Singapore math, but that is just good marketing and salesmanship by the publishers. I think the privates mentioned do a much better job than ATS/APS in MS and US, much more rigor in private, but for lower elementary the APS curriculum of ATS is more effective. Separately, most (not all) of the top math students in any public or private HS have had at least some outside supplementing. This might be tutoring at home from a parent at NIH or NIST, supplements at a math center, 1:1 tutoring afterschool, or whatnot. So by HS it is very difficult, well nigh impossible, to tease out why a particular student is good in math — or which school really has better math instruction — or which uses better curriculum materials. Some of those privates use a “flipped classroom” approach, modeled on PEA’s Harkness, and that approach often works well for a top math student but much less well for other math students (and not all are top math students at any school).

The compelling reason to pick a private for lower elementary - for many people, not all - turns out to be admissions lotteries. All of the good privates - and also ATS - have many more applicants than spaces. For an unhooked applicant (e.g. no sibling preference), getting in to any of these is like a lottery. The difference is that if attending a private K-12, one is not required to do another lottery until college. By contrast, ATS is only elementary, and afterwards one either has to attend an APS public MS/HS or apply to private (which is much more competitive admissions lottery then than it was applying at K).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does ATS compare to Sidwell/GDS/Beauvoir/Potomac/Maret?

You’re kidding yourselves if you think you’ve got some special school. So it’s better than all of the S Arlington elementaries… So what?

I have looked at all of those and I am paying very close attention to education, although I am not Asian.

For lower Elementary I would rather have ATS over any of those.

For MS and HS, my answer would be different. Then, I would prefer the academics at StA/NCS, Sidwell, GDS, or Potomac.

Why? Larger class sizes and mediocre curriculum?

So many ATS families boast about the summer reading challenge. 50 kids books spread over 10 weeks isn’t that big of a deal.

Just because the bar is SO low elsewhere in the district doesn’t mean your school is actually good.

How many books are the private schools having kids read over the summer?

Some privates, even very good ones, suggest that parents have elementary children read something over the summer, and then stop with that suggestion. Private education unavoidably has wide variance, even between very good private schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does ATS compare to Sidwell/GDS/Beauvoir/Potomac/Maret?

You’re kidding yourselves if you think you’ve got some special school. So it’s better than all of the S Arlington elementaries… So what?

I have looked at all of those and I am paying very close attention to education, although I am not Asian.

For lower Elementary I would rather have ATS over any of those.

For MS and HS, my answer would be different. Then, I would prefer the academics at StA/NCS, Sidwell, GDS, or Potomac.

Why? Larger class sizes and mediocre curriculum?d.

Most of the privates you mentioned do have smaller class sizes and more attention, but they also (as of now - 2024) have lower quality lower elementary curricula.

For example, most (possibly all) of those privates are still teaching reading using whole language/balanced literacy, teaching 3-cueing, and using Lucy Calkins and/or Fountas & Pinnell. That approach is a very widely discredited educational fad, but the privates are clinging to it. Please go read the “Sold a Story” podcast about why this is seriously suboptimal. APS used to do the same thing, in all fairness, but threat of a lawsuit from the NAACP (recently) caused APS to shift to a “Science of Reading” curriculum. In APS, unlike say FCPS or ACPS or LCPS, this has been integrated with the Core Knowledge curriculum (which is very different from and unrelated to the “Common Core” watered down curriculum silliness), so kids reading has been integrated with other important early learning.

On the math front, the privates like to talk about how they are using so-called “Singapore Math”, but I used to live in Singapore and what the privates actually use (“Math in Focus” et alia) is very far from being Singapore math. In fairness, those curricula often are marketed/sold to schools as being Singapore math, but that is just good marketing and salesmanship by the publishers. I think the privates mentioned do a much better job than ATS/APS in MS and US, much more rigor in private, but for lower elementary the APS curriculum of ATS is more effective. Separately, most (not all) of the top math students in any public or private HS have had at least some outside supplementing. This might be tutoring at home from a parent at NIH or NIST, supplements at a math center, 1:1 tutoring afterschool, or whatnot. So by HS it is very difficult, well nigh impossible, to tease out why a particular student is good in math — or which school really has better math instruction — or which uses better curriculum materials. Some of those privates use a “flipped classroom” approach, modeled on PEA’s Harkness, and that approach often works well for a top math student but much less well for other math students (and not all are top math students at any school).

The compelling reason to pick a private for lower elementary - for many people, not all - turns out to be admissions lotteries. All of the good privates - and also ATS - have many more applicants than spaces. For an unhooked applicant (e.g. no sibling preference), getting in to any of these is like a lottery. The difference is that if attending a private K-12, one is not required to do another lottery until college. By contrast, ATS is only elementary, and afterwards one either has to attend an APS public MS/HS or apply to private (which is much more competitive admissions lottery then than it was applying at K).

I have a child in one of the privates listed above, and I promise you they’re not doing Lucy Calkins or Fountas/Pinnell. It’s not like they aren’t paying attention to SoR. (Also, students in these privates weren’t affected by those types of instruction in the first place. Their parents made sure they learned to read.)

What does APS use for math instruction? Is Envision any better than Math in Focus (which is not used at my child’s school, but was mentioned above)? Not from what I’ve seen.

There is no “lottery” to enter these private schools like there is at ATS. It’s not luck of the draw. Students (and parents when it comes to certain grades) have to submit applications which are heavily scrutinized to allow the school to select the best class. Are some criteria bull$hit (like which families can and will contribute a ton of money)? Yes. At the same time, they aren’t admitting kids with severe learning issues or behavioral challenges. But you’re right, getting into a K-12 in K is much less stressful than in later grades (when kids have to demonstrate strong academic ability).

Oh, and Core Knowledge sucks. (Go check it out for yourself. All materials are available for free download on their website.) Is it better than what was used before? Sure. But when they essentially used nothing before, anything is going to be better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does ATS compare to Sidwell/GDS/Beauvoir/Potomac/Maret?

You’re kidding yourselves if you think you’ve got some special school. So it’s better than all of the S Arlington elementaries… So what?

I have looked at all of those and I am paying very close attention to education, although I am not Asian.

For lower Elementary I would rather have ATS over any of those.

For MS and HS, my answer would be different. Then, I would prefer the academics at StA/NCS, Sidwell, GDS, or Potomac.

Why? Larger class sizes and mediocre curriculum?

So many ATS families boast about the summer reading challenge. 50 kids books spread over 10 weeks isn’t that big of a deal.

Just because the bar is SO low elsewhere in the district doesn’t mean your school is actually good.

How many books are the private schools having kids read over the summer?

Some privates, even very good ones, suggest that parents have elementary children read something over the summer, and then stop with that suggestion. Private education unavoidably has wide variance, even between very good private schools.

I think that’s why PP mentioned specific private schools above, not making a general blanket statements about all private schools.

[Anonymous]

This is a silly argument and everyone is right.

ATS is one of the better elementary schools in APS.

APS is on the decline.

Top privates in the DC area are better quality, but out of reach for many.

Just don’t be a checked-out parent and your kid will be just fine wherever they go to school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is a silly argument and everyone is right.

ATS is one of the better elementary schools in APS.

APS is on the decline.

Top privates in the DC area are better quality, but out of reach for many.

Just don’t be a checked-out parent and your kid will be just fine wherever they go to school.

Not just APS. ATS is one of the best elementaries in the entire state. They just got another state award for achievement.

And yes APS is getting better on reading. They’re finally doing what ATS did for years in reading.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a silly argument and everyone is right.

ATS is one of the better elementary schools in APS.

APS is on the decline.

Top privates in the DC area are better quality, but out of reach for many.

Just don’t be a checked-out parent and your kid will be just fine wherever they go to school.

Not just APS. ATS is one of the best elementaries in the entire state. They just got another state award for achievement.

And yes APS is getting better on reading. They’re finally doing what ATS did for years in reading.

Have you looked at VA standards? Not too rigorous, are they?

The fact is, American education is kind of a joke compared to many countries. So being at the top of the list in your county, which is near the top of the list in the state, which is in the top half of the nation…

Doesn’t matter all that much when you consider the state of public education in the US compared to the rest of the world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:we are another happy family at ATS and so grateful we got in.

two kids are currently there. one of them was an above average reader going into the school. since he is so advanced he has been given the same amount of work but at a bit more advanced level. his teachers have also gone above and beyond in providing extra stuff for him too for over the summer and during the week if it's needed.

our other child that attends ATS is very much average in all subjects and has also had a positive experience.

I just don't understand why they don't do this at all of the schools.

Me too!

The model requires parent and teacher buy-in to be successful and not everyone wants that.

If the instructional model requires parents, it shouldn't be a specified unique educational model. All "instructional models" benefit with parental support.
So, what part of the instructional model requires parental buy-in? Completing homework? or adhering to the dress code? Same would apply to the success of any school.

NP. The point is that kids at option schools often perform better than those at neighborhood schools with similar demographics largely because they have parents involved & proactive enough to seek out, learn about, and apply for the option school in the first place. This isn’t a secret.

I understand the point. I've heard it for years and years. And I'm tired of it. Non-option schools can be quite successful, and many in APS are. It's the definition of "success" that seems to be at issue, if having the top scores is the criteria. In any system, one school is going to have the highest scores. Just because a school has lower stats does not mean it is not successful. All ATS does is weed out the more challenging children so that they don't have the demands and challenges of a Barcroft or a Randolp or a Drew. Those students aren't successful because their parents "sought out" and "learned about" and applied for it. It just happens that everyone there has done that. But many students whose parents don't seek to learn about options are equally successful in their neighborhood schools. It's just that you people believe those neighborhood schools aren't as successful as ATS because of all the students (many of who have very involved parents, btw) don't achieve at the same level and therefore drag the overall stats for the school down.

I challenge the ATS teachers to teach at Barcroft or Carlin Springs or Randolph and see how it compares - not because parents sought out ATS; but because those parents fled from those schools and as a group do not pose the same challenges in the same proportions. I believe ATS approach can be successful at any neighborhood school. That doesn't mean every student is going to be valedictorian.

Have you taught at one of those 3 schools? I have and while in many ways it was a lovely community with lots of very capable kids there were also parents who would have fought the ATS way. They didn’t want to or weren’t able to enforce behavior standards on their kid, help with homework or read newsletters. This is also true at the non-title I schools where I have worked.

I am a parent who is very involved in my kids' education who was turned off by ATS so did not apply. Maybe this has changed - there is a new principal since then - but they did not even allow snacks for kindergarteners. And I thought that the obsession with tucked in shirts was ridiculous. So no the ATS model definitely would not be ok with a lot of parents, or work for a lot of kids.

Who makes a 5 year old go all day without a snack? What's that accomplishing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does ATS compare to Sidwell/GDS/Beauvoir/Potomac/Maret?

You’re kidding yourselves if you think you’ve got some special school. So it’s better than all of the S Arlington elementaries… So what?

I have looked at all of those and I am paying very close attention to education, although I am not Asian.

For lower Elementary I would rather have ATS over any of those.

For MS and HS, my answer would be different. Then, I would prefer the academics at StA/NCS, Sidwell, GDS, or Potomac.

Why? Larger class sizes and mediocre curriculum?d.

Most of the privates you mentioned do have smaller class sizes and more attention, but they also (as of now - 2024) have lower quality lower elementary curricula.

For example, most (possibly all) of those privates are still teaching reading using whole language/balanced literacy, teaching 3-cueing, and using Lucy Calkins and/or Fountas & Pinnell. That approach is a very widely discredited educational fad, but the privates are clinging to it. Please go read the “Sold a Story” podcast about why this is seriously suboptimal. APS used to do the same thing, in all fairness, but threat of a lawsuit from the NAACP (recently) caused APS to shift to a “Science of Reading” curriculum. In APS, unlike say FCPS or ACPS or LCPS, this has been integrated with the Core Knowledge curriculum (which is very different from and unrelated to the “Common Core” watered down curriculum silliness), so kids reading has been integrated with other important early learning.

On the math front, the privates like to talk about how they are using so-called “Singapore Math”, but I used to live in Singapore and what the privates actually use (“Math in Focus” et alia) is very far from being Singapore math. In fairness, those curricula often are marketed/sold to schools as being Singapore math, but that is just good marketing and salesmanship by the publishers. I think the privates mentioned do a much better job than ATS/APS in MS and US, much more rigor in private, but for lower elementary the APS curriculum of ATS is more effective. Separately, most (not all) of the top math students in any public or private HS have had at least some outside supplementing. This might be tutoring at home from a parent at NIH or NIST, supplements at a math center, 1:1 tutoring afterschool, or whatnot. So by HS it is very difficult, well nigh impossible, to tease out why a particular student is good in math — or which school really has better math instruction — or which uses better curriculum materials. Some of those privates use a “flipped classroom” approach, modeled on PEA’s Harkness, and that approach often works well for a top math student but much less well for other math students (and not all are top math students at any school).

The compelling reason to pick a private for lower elementary - for many people, not all - turns out to be admissions lotteries. All of the good privates - and also ATS - have many more applicants than spaces. For an unhooked applicant (e.g. no sibling preference), getting in to any of these is like a lottery. The difference is that if attending a private K-12, one is not required to do another lottery until college. By contrast, ATS is only elementary, and afterwards one either has to attend an APS public MS/HS or apply to private (which is much more competitive admissions lottery then than it was applying at K).

I have a child in one of the privates listed above, and I promise you they’re not doing Lucy Calkins or Fountas/Pinnell. It’s not like they aren’t paying attention to SoR. (Also, students in these privates weren’t affected by those types of instruction in the first place. Their parents made sure they learned to read.)

What does APS use for math instruction? Is Envision any better than Math in Focus (which is not used at my child’s school, but was mentioned above)? Not from what I’ve seen.

There is no “lottery” to enter these private schools like there is at ATS. It’s not luck of the draw. Students (and parents when it comes to certain grades) have to submit applications which are heavily scrutinized to allow the school to select the best class. Are some criteria bull$hit (like which families can and will contribute a ton of money)? Yes. At the same time, they aren’t admitting kids with severe learning issues or behavioral challenges. But you’re right, getting into a K-12 in K is much less stressful than in later grades (when kids have to demonstrate strong academic ability).

Oh, and Core Knowledge sucks. (Go check it out for yourself. All materials are available for free download on their website.) Is it better than what was used before? Sure. But when they essentially used nothing before, anything is going to be better.

From what you wrote, it seems like you are deeply emotionally invested in your school. So Sorry that reality upset you so much. Believe whatever will help you feel happy.