Turning down top private for state school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It isn’t always worth it for a family to put a huge stress on their finances for an impressive school. UVA produces very successful students and was likely much cheaper. I get it. The Ivy brand isn’t necessarily a good purchase if you, say, hurt your retirement.

UVA is barely top 25 and they are very weak in STEM and CS. It doesn’t attract top students.

Agree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think the same kid coming out of UVA vs Harvard is getting the same job offers. Not even close.

+1

Nota contest, in the least.

Depends on the field. If you're in engineering or going to med or law school, I'd say you're looking at equivalent outcomes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some sociologists did a study on this kind of thing 15 or 20 years ago. I'll try to dig up a link. Their research found that those who were accepted at elite institutions but chose state schools instead had statistically indistinguishable career outcomes from those who went to the elite privates.

The reasoning was (in part), that applying and being accepted to an elite institution was a proxy for intelligence+drive+existing support. But the effect of the institution itself was undetectable.

There are other potential positive effects that might be associated with the state school choice, too, like graduating with zero debt (at least back then, before need blind), big fish in a small (or at least less competitive) pond, etc.

It's Dale & Krueger...they did mention that the kids also graduate near the top of their class at State U (in the actual example it was a kid choosing Penn State over Yale and graduating near the top of their Penn State class).

That is an important distinction in their research. If your kid goes to UVA and just graduates middle of the class, then they would not expect the same outcomes of the average Harvard graduate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think the same kid coming out of UVA vs Harvard is getting the same job offers. Not even close.

+1

Nota contest, in the least.

Depends on the field. If you're in engineering or going to med or law school, I'd say you're looking at equivalent outcomes.

Yes, but if one is in engineering, presumably they would be considering other schools entirely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It isn’t always worth it for a family to put a huge stress on their finances for an impressive school. UVA produces very successful students and was likely much cheaper. I get it. The Ivy brand isn’t necessarily a good purchase if you, say, hurt your retirement.

UVA is barely top 25 and they are very weak in STEM and CS. It doesn’t attract top students.

Not that ranking means all that much, but USNWR has Harvard at number 17 and UVA at number 36 for computer science.

There are far more important criteria to go by than the marginal difference in the program rankings of these two very highly rated universities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some sociologists did a study on this kind of thing 15 or 20 years ago. I'll try to dig up a link. Their research found that those who were accepted at elite institutions but chose state schools instead had statistically indistinguishable career outcomes from those who went to the elite privates.

The reasoning was (in part), that applying and being accepted to an elite institution was a proxy for intelligence+drive+existing support. But the effect of the institution itself was undetectable.

There are other potential positive effects that might be associated with the state school choice, too, like graduating with zero debt (at least back then, before need blind), big fish in a small (or at least less competitive) pond, etc.

It's Dale & Krueger...they did mention that the kids also graduate near the top of their class at State U (in the actual example it was a kid choosing Penn State over Yale and graduating near the top of their Penn State class).

That is an important distinction in their research. If your kid goes to UVA and just graduates middle of the class, then they would not expect the same outcomes of the average Harvard graduate.

Guarantee you that kid had 1000x more fun at PSU than he'd have had at Yale. Mine chose a state flagship over a better regarded private (not Harvard vs. UVA, but the same relative difference) because the flagship offered the better program for what my kid wants to do. There are tons of other reasons (don't want to be surrounded by pretentious jerks for 4 years, athletic opportunity, location, size, type of campus setting).

OP, mind your own damn business.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It isn’t always worth it for a family to put a huge stress on their finances for an impressive school. UVA produces very successful students and was likely much cheaper. I get it. The Ivy brand isn’t necessarily a good purchase if you, say, hurt your retirement.

UVA is barely top 25 and they are very weak in STEM and CS. It doesn’t attract top students.

oh stop with that. UVA grads in those areas get the exact same jobs as those who you'd consider "stronger". And yes it does attract top students.

its possible that if this kid got into Harvard, they may be a Jefferson Scholar, which is def worth the trade off.

That being said, I have never met a Harvard grad that didn't walk in with a massive ego. I actually prefer NOT to hire people from Harvard for that reason. Perhaps this is just a normal kid who wants a fun experience and be surrounded by "normal" smart kids.

What is Jefferson scholar?

Its a very small (20) group of students who receive a full ride plus to UVA. It is highy desired and employers heavily recruit and compete for them. I could see someone wanting to be the tippy top of UVA rather middle of the road Harvard.

https://www.jeffersonscholars.org/scholarships

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some sociologists did a study on this kind of thing 15 or 20 years ago. I'll try to dig up a link. Their research found that those who were accepted at elite institutions but chose state schools instead had statistically indistinguishable career outcomes from those who went to the elite privates.

The reasoning was (in part), that applying and being accepted to an elite institution was a proxy for intelligence+drive+existing support. But the effect of the institution itself was undetectable.

There are other potential positive effects that might be associated with the state school choice, too, like graduating with zero debt (at least back then, before need blind), big fish in a small (or at least less competitive) pond, etc.

It's Dale & Krueger...they did mention that the kids also graduate near the top of their class at State U (in the actual example it was a kid choosing Penn State over Yale and graduating near the top of their Penn State class).

That is an important distinction in their research. If your kid goes to UVA and just graduates middle of the class, then they would not expect the same outcomes of the average Harvard graduate.

Guarantee you that kid had 1000x more fun at PSU than he'd have had at Yale. Mine chose a state flagship over a better regarded private (not Harvard vs. UVA, but the same relative difference) because the flagship offered the better program for what my kid wants to do. There are tons of other reasons (don't want to be surrounded by pretentious jerks for 4 years, athletic opportunity, location, size, type of campus setting).

OP, mind your own damn business.

You may be correct, however, I would imagine it is stressful to graduate at the top of the class at PSU (meaning top 5%). Not sure the D&K test case had as much fun as the typical PSU student.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some sociologists did a study on this kind of thing 15 or 20 years ago. I'll try to dig up a link. Their research found that those who were accepted at elite institutions but chose state schools instead had statistically indistinguishable career outcomes from those who went to the elite privates.

The reasoning was (in part), that applying and being accepted to an elite institution was a proxy for intelligence+drive+existing support. But the effect of the institution itself was undetectable.

There are other potential positive effects that might be associated with the state school choice, too, like graduating with zero debt (at least back then, before need blind), big fish in a small (or at least less competitive) pond, etc.

It's Dale & Krueger...they did mention that the kids also graduate near the top of their class at State U (in the actual example it was a kid choosing Penn State over Yale and graduating near the top of their Penn State class).

That is an important distinction in their research. If your kid goes to UVA and just graduates middle of the class, then they would not expect the same outcomes of the average Harvard graduate.

Guarantee you that kid had 1000x more fun at PSU than he'd have had at Yale. Mine chose a state flagship over a better regarded private (not Harvard vs. UVA, but the same relative difference) because the flagship offered the better program for what my kid wants to do. There are tons of other reasons (don't want to be surrounded by pretentious jerks for 4 years, athletic opportunity, location, size, type of campus setting).

OP, mind your own damn business.

You may be correct, however, I would imagine it is stressful to graduate at the top of the class at PSU (meaning top 5%). Not sure the D&K test case had as much fun as the typical PSU student.

It is not stressful to graduate at the top of a school like PSU (or other comparable state school) if you are capable of being successful at an Ivy. I knew many such students at my state school, and they all had active lives outside of their academic pursuits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It isn’t always worth it for a family to put a huge stress on their finances for an impressive school. UVA produces very successful students and was likely much cheaper. I get it. The Ivy brand isn’t necessarily a good purchase if you, say, hurt your retirement.

UVA is barely top 25 and they are very weak in STEM and CS. It doesn’t attract top students.

Not that ranking means all that much, but USNWR has Harvard at number 17 and UVA at number 36 for computer science.

There are far more important criteria to go by than the marginal difference in the program rankings of these two very highly rated universities.

Harvard graduates working in technology make considerably more according to the WSJ.

[Anonymous]

They’re lying that they got admitted to Harvard, duh.

[Anonymous]

Turning down Vandy for UVA. Twin sons want to study BME with the possibility of med school in the future. If anyone wants to convince me that at $98k/year, Vandy is better than in state UVA, I'm all ears.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Turning down Vandy for UVA. Twin sons want to study BME with the possibility of med school in the future. If anyone wants to convince me that at $98k/year, Vandy is better than in state UVA, I'm all ears.

Mine did the same plus Duke for the same reason. Ending 3rd year with a 4.0, great social life and happy as can be. Will graduate Med School debt free.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't think the same kid coming out of UVA vs Harvard is getting the same job offers. Not even close.

Because you think employers are idiots? It's the same kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People make bad decisions all the time.

Or smart ones…..for them

Thanks for the laugh. Imagine the regret.

The only regret would be all the unnecessary cost w/Harvard.