The cost of Jewish day school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, keep an eye on antisemitism in your local public schools. Since you mention you're in a high cost of living area, I suspect you may also be in a place that is at some real risk of making Jews feel demonized and unwelcome in schools now and in the coming years. It is something to consider as you make your decision.

Op here. It’s a big factor in my decision. I am completely in support of Jewish day schools. I just don’t know how much I’m supposed to sacrifice financially for it - do I sacrifice having another kid? Vacations? Savings?

Yes, if you need to. You think you should get aid and go on fancy vacations?

Op here. No I do not. But on the other hand, the financial aid system at this school is broken because if I don’t get aid, I am subsidizing other families with stay at home parents making 75k bar mitzvahs who have the gall to apply for and take aid. So - I don’t feel like making an enormous financial sacrifice to subsidize other people’s leisurely lifestyles. The majority of people at this school get financial aid, and instead, they could just make tuition more affordable so it’s more generally accessible.

What I have an issue with is the lack of transparency. If I make 450k and use half of my post-tax income to pay for tuition, forgoing other expenses, while another family with the same income applies and receives aid, it’s not a fair or efficient system.

While you're in the thick of raising kids, it's hard to find the money. My kids were always on FA at day school. But now that they're done with college, there is money available for donations. I like to think about it terms of replenishing the fund that helped my kids. The day school community is really small. You know who has the ability to be full pay and there aren't a lot of them. Some people get tuition paid by grandparents but the majority of people I knew from my kids classes received some form of aid. My kids were lifers so over the years there was a lot of socialization with the same parents and we did talk. My kids deserved vacations and summer camp as well as a day school education ad did most of the kids in their classes.

The conversation you're having here on DCUM about the cost of being jewish is one that I've had many times with friends at kiddish on shabbat. Apply for the aid. The schools have the formula worked out. If you don't apply you'll never know what you'll get.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't really understand this language about "I'm sacrificing X to get this education."

Private education is a luxury. When people purchase a luxury, they have less money to purchase other luxuries. Except for people with insane wealth, people choose between luxuries. That doesn't mean they "sacrifice" all the other luxuries they didn't buy. It's just a bizarre way to look at it.

I don't hear it in other contexts. "We had fun on a ski trip to Aspen but we had to sacrifice a lot to go there. We gave up the alps for it!" or "Thank you for complementing my Birkin, I sacrificed a Land Rover to get it!"

If Jewish Day School is a luxury that's important to you, then choose it! The kids I know whose parents have chosen it have thrived.

I'm also laughing at the "Catholic and Protestant schools cost less than $20K." Has this person looked up Prep or Sidwell's or the Cathedral schools' tuition recently?

If you're active in the Jewish community, there is definitely a push toward day school education as part of a full Jewish life for your family. It is not presented as a luxury, but as an important part of religious education and Jewish identity. That's not to say that everyone (or even the majority) does it. But it's not the same as other luxuries.

This is not true. "The Jewish community" is a diverse big tent.

Then let me amend my post to be specific to Conservative synagogues in this area, where OP is talking about. And that doesn't even include the pressure to send your kids to Ramah Summer Camp.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, keep an eye on antisemitism in your local public schools. Since you mention you're in a high cost of living area, I suspect you may also be in a place that is at some real risk of making Jews feel demonized and unwelcome in schools now and in the coming years. It is something to consider as you make your decision.

Op here. It’s a big factor in my decision. I am completely in support of Jewish day schools. I just don’t know how much I’m supposed to sacrifice financially for it - do I sacrifice having another kid? Vacations? Savings?

Yes, if you need to. You think you should get aid and go on fancy vacations?

Op here. No I do not. But on the other hand, the financial aid system at this school is broken because if I don’t get aid, I am subsidizing other families with stay at home parents making 75k bar mitzvahs who have the gall to apply for and take aid. So - I don’t feel like making an enormous financial sacrifice to subsidize other people’s leisurely lifestyles. The majority of people at this school get financial aid, and instead, they could just make tuition more affordable so it’s more generally accessible.

What I have an issue with is the lack of transparency. If I make 450k and use half of my post-tax income to pay for tuition, forgoing other expenses, while another family with the same income applies and receives aid, it’s not a fair or efficient system.

My kids deserved vacations and summer camp as well as a day school education ad did most of the kids in their classes.

Most of the kids in their classes deserved vacations and summer camp, but some didn't? And the kids who didn't go at all?

I agree that OP should apply for aid, and let the school decide. I also think that she shouldn't, at this point, worry about the 50K high school tuition for a kid who isn't born yet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't really understand this language about "I'm sacrificing X to get this education."

Private education is a luxury. When people purchase a luxury, they have less money to purchase other luxuries. Except for people with insane wealth, people choose between luxuries. That doesn't mean they "sacrifice" all the other luxuries they didn't buy. It's just a bizarre way to look at it.

I don't hear it in other contexts. "We had fun on a ski trip to Aspen but we had to sacrifice a lot to go there. We gave up the alps for it!" or "Thank you for complementing my Birkin, I sacrificed a Land Rover to get it!"

If Jewish Day School is a luxury that's important to you, then choose it! The kids I know whose parents have chosen it have thrived.

I'm also laughing at the "Catholic and Protestant schools cost less than $20K." Has this person looked up Prep or Sidwell's or the Cathedral schools' tuition recently?

It's a way for people to feel very self-righteous while purchasing a luxury good. It's insufferable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, keep an eye on antisemitism in your local public schools. Since you mention you're in a high cost of living area, I suspect you may also be in a place that is at some real risk of making Jews feel demonized and unwelcome in schools now and in the coming years. It is something to consider as you make your decision.

Op here. It’s a big factor in my decision. I am completely in support of Jewish day schools. I just don’t know how much I’m supposed to sacrifice financially for it - do I sacrifice having another kid? Vacations? Savings?

I mean, yes? People do factor finances into their decision of how many kids to have. And the cut corners elsewhere to spend on the things they want. You sound very clueless and entitled.

[Anonymous]

This whole discussion of "why should I subsidize other families' SAH spouses?" is a very normal conversation over on the private/independent school board.

The truth is that you never know what's going on in someone else's family. Someone stays at home because another child has special needs, or they are caring for aging parents, or they have an invisible disability that makes FT employment hard.

The point is to run your own race. Apply for FA but know that this particular luxury good will require you to give up something else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, keep an eye on antisemitism in your local public schools. Since you mention you're in a high cost of living area, I suspect you may also be in a place that is at some real risk of making Jews feel demonized and unwelcome in schools now and in the coming years. It is something to consider as you make your decision.

Op here. It’s a big factor in my decision. I am completely in support of Jewish day schools. I just don’t know how much I’m supposed to sacrifice financially for it - do I sacrifice having another kid? Vacations? Savings?

I mean, yes? People do factor finances into their decision of how many kids to have. And the cut corners elsewhere to spend on the things they want. You sound very clueless and entitled.

I’m asking what other people in this situation do. Do they have smaller family sizes than they desire? Do they not take vacations? I don’t understand how normal people afford Jewish day school on top of all the other costs of raising children. If that makes me clueless and entitled, so be it I guess

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, keep an eye on antisemitism in your local public schools. Since you mention you're in a high cost of living area, I suspect you may also be in a place that is at some real risk of making Jews feel demonized and unwelcome in schools now and in the coming years. It is something to consider as you make your decision.

Op here. It’s a big factor in my decision. I am completely in support of Jewish day schools. I just don’t know how much I’m supposed to sacrifice financially for it - do I sacrifice having another kid? Vacations? Savings?

Yes, if you need to. You think you should get aid and go on fancy vacations?

Op here. No I do not. But on the other hand, the financial aid system at this school is broken because if I don’t get aid, I am subsidizing other families with stay at home parents making 75k bar mitzvahs who have the gall to apply for and take aid. So - I don’t feel like making an enormous financial sacrifice to subsidize other people’s leisurely lifestyles. The majority of people at this school get financial aid, and instead, they could just make tuition more affordable so it’s more generally accessible.

What I have an issue with is the lack of transparency. If I make 450k and use half of my post-tax income to pay for tuition, forgoing other expenses, while another family with the same income applies and receives aid, it’s not a fair or efficient system.

How do you know that other families with the same income as you are getting aid? (Also, why are they giving aid to people who earn $450k a year?)

My main observation on this reply, though, is that I hope my kid is never invited to a $75k bar mitzvah -- I already feel guilty about theirs, which we're trying to bring in for under $30k, total.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, keep an eye on antisemitism in your local public schools. Since you mention you're in a high cost of living area, I suspect you may also be in a place that is at some real risk of making Jews feel demonized and unwelcome in schools now and in the coming years. It is something to consider as you make your decision.

Op here. It’s a big factor in my decision. I am completely in support of Jewish day schools. I just don’t know how much I’m supposed to sacrifice financially for it - do I sacrifice having another kid? Vacations? Savings?

I mean, yes? People do factor finances into their decision of how many kids to have. And the cut corners elsewhere to spend on the things they want. You sound very clueless and entitled.

I’m asking what other people in this situation do. Do they have smaller family sizes than they desire? Do they not take vacations? I don’t understand how normal people afford Jewish day school on top of all the other costs of raising children. If that makes me clueless and entitled, so be it I guess

I'm not Jewish, but I'm someone who chose faith based education for my kids.

There were certain things DH and I wanted for our kids. We wanted faith based schools. We wanted them to live where they had access to the outdoors. DH wanted them to play sports. I didn't want them in long hours of childcare outside the home. We wanted them to be able to spend time with extended family. So, we stopped at two kids so that we could afford those things, and chose a home that had things we valued highly (close to grandparents, close to a park) and didn't have things that other people might have valued that would have driven up the price (we have 2 bedrooms, and a not highly rated public school, and live outside the beltway), because that's what we could afford without working hours that would have prevented us from spending a lot of time with our kids, and that meant we had money left over to drive to the beach each summer for a week with the cousins.

Then we had a series of family catastrophes, and we ended up relying on the generosity of our school's financial aid, and subsequent schools. But that's another story.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, keep an eye on antisemitism in your local public schools. Since you mention you're in a high cost of living area, I suspect you may also be in a place that is at some real risk of making Jews feel demonized and unwelcome in schools now and in the coming years. It is something to consider as you make your decision.

Op here. It’s a big factor in my decision. I am completely in support of Jewish day schools. I just don’t know how much I’m supposed to sacrifice financially for it - do I sacrifice having another kid? Vacations? Savings?

I mean, yes? People do factor finances into their decision of how many kids to have. And the cut corners elsewhere to spend on the things they want. You sound very clueless and entitled.

I’m asking what other people in this situation do. Do they have smaller family sizes than they desire? Do they not take vacations? I don’t understand how normal people afford Jewish day school on top of all the other costs of raising children. If that makes me clueless and entitled, so be it I guess

This is one of those times when you just have to have faith. You have to believe in Hashem. I was looking at Sulam for my kid which is on top of day school tuition. As I was talking to the Rabbi I asked him how the heck I was supposed to afford this. His response to me was you can only worry about now and we figure out the rest along the way. Bereshit talks about Hashem creating the world and commanding man to multiply so I disagree that Jewish families have to have a smaller family size then they desire. In the context of a day school education both providing a jewish education and having multiple children are mitzvahs. One mitzvah is not more important than the other.

It's hard not to think about how the heck is this going to work out. But somehow it just does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This post is so ridiculous. $500k household income and complaining about money? The irony is staggering!! WTF??

Cool- then it’s not the post for you. If you check out the private school forum, 400-500k HHI is absolutely in the “lower quartile” of HHIs for student households. I would not be sending my kid to an expensive independent school on our HHI if Jewish day school were not a priority. And even though it is a priority, it would be a major expense that would require having fewer kids than desired or spending half of our HHI on tuition and camp in a HCOL area. I’m not sure what else to say. We live in a normal house with a normal mortgage, max out 401k, take 1-2 vacations per year. We live a very average lifestyle. We both work. We watch money. We don’t buy designer clothes. And so on.

PP here.

We want to send our kids to private school. Got accepted and everything just last week. HHI is $250k max. Applied for aid, didn't get any. So we had to decline.

Based on your post with $500k being "low" on income, good Lord we should be living in a shoe box.

I would be on cloud nine with a HHI of $500k, that's all I'm saying..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This post is so ridiculous. $500k household income and complaining about money? The irony is staggering!! WTF??

Cool- then it’s not the post for you. If you check out the private school forum, 400-500k HHI is absolutely in the “lower quartile” of HHIs for student households. I would not be sending my kid to an expensive independent school on our HHI if Jewish day school were not a priority. And even though it is a priority, it would be a major expense that would require having fewer kids than desired or spending half of our HHI on tuition and camp in a HCOL area. I’m not sure what else to say. We live in a normal house with a normal mortgage, max out 401k, take 1-2 vacations per year. We live a very average lifestyle. We both work. We watch money. We don’t buy designer clothes. And so on.

PP here.

We want to send our kids to private school. Got accepted and everything just last week. HHI is $250k max. Applied for aid, didn't get any. So we had to decline.

Based on your post with $500k being "low" on income, good Lord we should be living in a shoe box.

I would be on cloud nine with a HHI of $500k, that's all I'm saying..

Listen, I wish private school were more affordable. It’s not. Cost of living is soaring. At your income you definitely need significant financial aid. At my income we can make it work for two kids, but it’s still a major portion of our take home pay.

And while your school seemingly has strict limitations on aid, most of the families at my kids school receive aid. I am bothered by the lack of transparency. If people at my income level typically get aid, they should just make it a published sliding scale, instead of having people with a 450k income subsidizing other people on the same or higher income, or people who chose not to work etc.

The secondary topic here is how transparent the aid system should be, particularly in a Jewish day school. The primary topic is, for Jewish families who feel a religious and cultural preference to send their kids to day school, what financial trade offs have they had to make if they are in a financial bracket where they otherwise private school would be a stretch for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This post is so ridiculous. $500k household income and complaining about money? The irony is staggering!! WTF??

Cool- then it’s not the post for you. If you check out the private school forum, 400-500k HHI is absolutely in the “lower quartile” of HHIs for student households. I would not be sending my kid to an expensive independent school on our HHI if Jewish day school were not a priority. And even though it is a priority, it would be a major expense that would require having fewer kids than desired or spending half of our HHI on tuition and camp in a HCOL area. I’m not sure what else to say. We live in a normal house with a normal mortgage, max out 401k, take 1-2 vacations per year. We live a very average lifestyle. We both work. We watch money. We don’t buy designer clothes. And so on.

PP here.

We want to send our kids to private school. Got accepted and everything just last week. HHI is $250k max. Applied for aid, didn't get any. So we had to decline.

Based on your post with $500k being "low" on income, good Lord we should be living in a shoe box.

I would be on cloud nine with a HHI of $500k, that's all I'm saying..

Listen, I wish private school were more affordable. It’s not. Cost of living is soaring. At your income you definitely need significant financial aid. At my income we can make it work for two kids, but it’s still a major portion of our take home pay.

And while your school seemingly has strict limitations on aid, most of the families at my kids school receive aid. I am bothered by the lack of transparency. If people at my income level typically get aid, they should just make it a published sliding scale, instead of having people with a 450k income subsidizing other people on the same or higher income, or people who chose not to work etc.

The secondary topic here is how transparent the aid system should be, particularly in a Jewish day school. The primary topic is, for Jewish families who feel a religious and cultural preference to send their kids to day school, what financial trade offs have they had to make if they are in a financial bracket where they otherwise private school would be a stretch for them.

PP here.

Unfortunately you won't get any insight into how the decisions are made.

Our preferred private school isn't Jewish, but secular (we are in a more rural area), but the administration knows we are a Jewish family. I was completely okay with others and students knowing that.

Now we're going to go public and I'm going to tell my older and eventually my younger once school age to not broadcast that information.

[Anonymous]

Honestly, the best answer was earlier in the thread.

How do you "make it work" on a $500K income while paying $200K in tuition/camps?

Well, then you live like people who make less. Every single day, people live on so much less. You don't get to live like $500K people, you have to live like $300K people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is a troll post. You can afford to send 3 kids to private and summer camp.

You must not live in the DC area—