Why is there so much premium on western/european food?

[Anonymous]

I'm Korean. I can't/don't make most Korean food from scratch because it is waaay too time consuming and involved. I recall my mother making Korean food, and it was so involved.

I can easily throw a piece of steak on the grill, wtih some salt pepper, boil some potatoes and make a salad. Northern European fare like this is super easy. Of course, they have more complicated food, but there is no Korean food that is this easy to throw together. I'm generally not a fan of northern European food.

The easiest and tastiest dishes for me to make are Italian. I even make the sauce from scratch (using canned tomatoes). I think it's also because I love pasta. I also love Korean food, more than Italian, but if I want it, I usually go to Hmart to get ready made stuff, or to a restaurant. There are only a handful of Korean dishes I'll make from scratch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's funny, because I just went to Thailand and visited the Museum of Siam in Bangkok. They had a room on Thai cuisine with a figure on the wall describing how to make massaman curry:



It's crazy how many ingredients and prep go into a 'simple' dish like massaman curry, yet go to any Thai restaurant and most are selling it below $18. Meanwhile, go to an Italian place and they're trying to sell you cacio e pepe for $20+, which is just pasta, pepper, butter, and some cheese.

I’ll let you in on a secret - the cheap Thai place is buying jarred curry.

And that still takes more prep than cacio e pepe, lol. I just looked up an Italian restaurant in the area for fun....$17 for linguini with olive oil and nothing else. It's a ridiculously stupid premium just because it is Italian food.

You're confused. It's the area, not the food. That's regular food price in 2024. Yes, it's expensive - and restaurants are hurting and are raising prices even more. But it's not a "European" premium. It's just this area and the times.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:WaPo ran articles on this a few years back. The term 'cheap eats' is offensive, because everyone knows you're talking about immigrant foods 95% of the time.

There's simply less premium placed on other cultures' (i.e. outside of Europe) foods due to ingrained ethnocentrism.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/goingoutguide/restaurants/my-columns-name-does-a-disservice-to-the-immigrants-whose-food-i-celebrate-so-im-dropping-it/2018/12/31/101a28de-07c8-11e9-85b6-41c0fe0c5b8f_story.html


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/04/22/the-great-ethnic-food-lie/

That's fine. I enjoy my cheaper ethnic foods.

DH and I went to a "fine dining" European restaurant in Bethesda for our anniversary. It was just meh, and over priced.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Take French or Italian restaurants for example. You will almost always undoubtedly pay through the friggin’ nose for those types of cuisines, despite the fact that a restaurant in those categories may be throughly mid. It’s not like Italian food here in America is often prepared with that many complex techniques and exotic ingredients. People will pay $30 for a basic pasta dish, which might even be prepped with boxed dry pastas. Contrast that to say Chinese, Thai, Mexican etc. where customers expect cheap eats for high quality food. Have you seen the prep and number of ingredients that go into say making a Thai curry from scratch? It takes far more prep work than 99% of pasta dishes, yet you’d be hard pressed to sell Thai food to customers for $40 per plate. Or Mexican places making all their masa from scratch while cooking marinated meats for hours. Oh so an Italian place may make pasta from scratch? Big whoop. There are so many Chinese places that make hand pulled noodles and dumplings from scratch, yet people expect to pay $15 or less per bowl of noodles and probably even less than $10 for a plate of dumplings. And French food is even more overpriced. Big whoop, throw in salt, tons of butter, and a few herbs into most dishes that have one dimensional flavors. The French never really wow your palate with pungent herbs, sourness, spicy, and sweet. So why do people have no qualms about paying exorbitant premiums for bland European foods, yet foods in other ethic categories often require far more complex prep yet people want high quality and for it to be ‘cheap eats’? It’s pretty egregious to charge over $20 for any pasta dish when it is a low technique and limited ingredient entree.

I understand what you are asking, but why does it matter? No one can police someone else's values and opinions.
And yes, many of you in immigrant communities, and your food and culture, are not considered "white" yet. This will come with time, as it does for non black immigrants communities, but not at the speed you would like

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There used to be cheap French and Italian restaurants around - like Italian Market in Philly and French bistro places. Certainly there are expensive Asian restaurants. I think the more interesting question is why in a standard restaurant there will be a default Italian-American pasta dish, but not say a default Asian noodle dish like Pad Thai?

Time, exposure and numbers. Something like 300,000 Thai people have immigrated here vs 5.5 million Italian immigrants, and Thai people, along with most Asian people, weren’t allowed to immigrate here. Therefore Thai food hasn’t had the same period of time to assimilate into “common” food (and will likely do so in a different way given that Italian food really made it big here outside the east coast after WWII).

Ah, but the government of Thailand sponsors people who immigrate here and open Thai restaurants, increasing our familiarity with Thai cuisine:

Thailand's gastrodiplomacy efforts involve several government departments and encompass a number of ambitious initiatives. The Export-Import Bank of Thailand offered up to $3 million in loans for Thai nationals looking to open a restaurant abroad. Before the program began, there were roughly 5,500 Thai restaurants worldwide. In the following 10 years, that number jumped to over 10,000 Thai restaurants around the world. By 2014, nearly a quarter of all restaurants in Australia served Thai cuisine. In the U.S., there are roughly 300,000 Thai-Americans, but an estimated 5,300 Thai restaurants in the country, giving the highest population-to-restaurant ratio of any other ethnic cuisine.

Read More: https://www.foodrepublic.com/1318428/how-gastrodiplomacy-brought-thai-food-world-stage/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's funny, because I just went to Thailand and visited the Museum of Siam in Bangkok. They had a room on Thai cuisine with a figure on the wall describing how to make massaman curry:



It's crazy how many ingredients and prep go into a 'simple' dish like massaman curry, yet go to any Thai restaurant and most are selling it below $18. Meanwhile, go to an Italian place and they're trying to sell you cacio e pepe for $20+, which is just pasta, pepper, butter, and some cheese.

I’ll let you in on a secret - the cheap Thai place is buying jarred curry.

And that still takes more prep than cacio e pepe, lol. I just looked up an Italian restaurant in the area for fun....$17 for linguini with olive oil and nothing else. It's a ridiculously stupid premium just because it is Italian food.

You're confused. It's the area, not the food. That's regular food price in 2024. Yes, it's expensive - and restaurants are hurting and are raising prices even more. But it's not a "European" premium. It's just this area and the times.

No, you’re confused, because IN THE SAME AREA, Thai restaurants, for example, have a price ceiling for nearly all of their dishes that require tons of ingredients and prep capped below $20:

https://www.kiinimmthai.com/_files/ugd/2ed49a_78f02265f31c41b68cdbe92357e4adf1.pdf


Contrast that to the local Italian place selling olive oil linguini for $17:
https://fontinagrille.com/menus/


The area is the same. The premium markup is because it is Italian food. The markdown is because it is Thai food. Area has nothing to do with it.

[Anonymous]

See also https://www.foodandwine.com/why-are-there-so-many-thai-restaurants-7104115#

[Anonymous]

Nice how OP doesn't mention expensive Japanese restaurants, as those don't align with the point she wants to make.

[Anonymous]

Here's a couple of Asian restaurants in central Bethesda. Now tell me about how cheap they are.

https://raku.xdineapp.com/consumer#menu/1847/Raku%20Bethesda/495969/DINNER%20MENU

https://peterchangarlington.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Peter-Chang-Menu.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's funny, because I just went to Thailand and visited the Museum of Siam in Bangkok. They had a room on Thai cuisine with a figure on the wall describing how to make massaman curry:



It's crazy how many ingredients and prep go into a 'simple' dish like massaman curry, yet go to any Thai restaurant and most are selling it below $18. Meanwhile, go to an Italian place and they're trying to sell you cacio e pepe for $20+, which is just pasta, pepper, butter, and some cheese.

I’ll let you in on a secret - the cheap Thai place is buying jarred curry.

And that still takes more prep than cacio e pepe, lol. I just looked up an Italian restaurant in the area for fun....$17 for linguini with olive oil and nothing else. It's a ridiculously stupid premium just because it is Italian food.

You're confused. It's the area, not the food. That's regular food price in 2024. Yes, it's expensive - and restaurants are hurting and are raising prices even more. But it's not a "European" premium. It's just this area and the times.

No, you’re confused, because IN THE SAME AREA, Thai restaurants, for example, have a price ceiling for nearly all of their dishes that require tons of ingredients and prep capped below $20:

https://www.kiinimmthai.com/_files/ugd/2ed49a_78f02265f31c41b68cdbe92357e4adf1.pdf


Contrast that to the local Italian place selling olive oil linguini for $17:
https://fontinagrille.com/menus/


The area is the same. The premium markup is because it is Italian food. The markdown is because it is Thai food. Area has nothing to do with it.

You seem very focused on Thai food involving a ton of ingredients. Do you know how cooking works? They don't make up individual batches every time somebody orders a curry. They make large quantities in advance with things like garlic, ginger, fish sauce. They don't use premium cuts of meat. Indeed, many dishes are not meat heavy as there are lots of vegetables.

You also seem very focused on some place selling olive oil linguini for $17. Maybe that is just a standard item and nobody actually orders it because, like you, they think it is poor value.

[Anonymous]

This was Rick bayless’s mission - he probably wasn’t the first, but he got more traction than most - to introduce Mexican food as fine dining to Americans. Most cuisines first become popular in the us from a cheap eats/ street food approach and then it takes a while for people to accept them as a fine dining experience. For example, there was a huge Vietnamese influx into Texas in the 80’s. There were many small mom and pop hole in the wall restaurants where only locals dined, and then non Vietnamese discovered them, and then it took a while for fine dining concepts to catch hold. Usually it takes an entire generation, where the kids who grew up in their family’s restaurant then go on to have more expansive concepts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:WaPo ran articles on this a few years back. The term 'cheap eats' is offensive, because everyone knows you're talking about immigrant foods 95% of the time.

There's simply less premium placed on other cultures' (i.e. outside of Europe) foods due to ingrained ethnocentrism.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/goingoutguide/restaurants/my-columns-name-does-a-disservice-to-the-immigrants-whose-food-i-celebrate-so-im-dropping-it/2018/12/31/101a28de-07c8-11e9-85b6-41c0fe0c5b8f_story.html


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/04/22/the-great-ethnic-food-lie/

That’s absurd. It’s simple economics- places like the bahn mi shops in Virfinja are “cheap eats” because the ingredients are affordable and its a sandwich shop setting in a mall, not a high-rent fancy restaurant in downtown DC with waiters and sommeliers etc. The entire business model is immigrants providing cheap eats to other immigrants. And of course fine dining is incredibly diverse in this area these days, with “immigrant” cuisine regularly included

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's funny, because I just went to Thailand and visited the Museum of Siam in Bangkok. They had a room on Thai cuisine with a figure on the wall describing how to make massaman curry:



It's crazy how many ingredients and prep go into a 'simple' dish like massaman curry, yet go to any Thai restaurant and most are selling it below $18. Meanwhile, go to an Italian place and they're trying to sell you cacio e pepe for $20+, which is just pasta, pepper, butter, and some cheese.

I’ll let you in on a secret - the cheap Thai place is buying jarred curry.

And that still takes more prep than cacio e pepe, lol. I just looked up an Italian restaurant in the area for fun....$17 for linguini with olive oil and nothing else. It's a ridiculously stupid premium just because it is Italian food.

Cacio e pepe is surprisingly difficult to do well. I’m not arguing with your general point, but that dish wasn’t the best choice as an example, even though it seems simple. Maybe spaghetti carbonara or pomodoro.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's funny, because I just went to Thailand and visited the Museum of Siam in Bangkok. They had a room on Thai cuisine with a figure on the wall describing how to make massaman curry:



It's crazy how many ingredients and prep go into a 'simple' dish like massaman curry, yet go to any Thai restaurant and most are selling it below $18. Meanwhile, go to an Italian place and they're trying to sell you cacio e pepe for $20+, which is just pasta, pepper, butter, and some cheese.

I’ll let you in on a secret - the cheap Thai place is buying jarred curry.

And that still takes more prep than cacio e pepe, lol. I just looked up an Italian restaurant in the area for fun....$17 for linguini with olive oil and nothing else. It's a ridiculously stupid premium just
because it is Italian food.

$17 is about what I’d expect to pay for pad thai. Really not sure what your point is except that you prefer thai over italian?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:WaPo ran articles on this a few years back. The term 'cheap eats' is offensive, because everyone knows you're talking about immigrant foods 95% of the time.

There's simply less premium placed on other cultures' (i.e. outside of Europe) foods due to ingrained ethnocentrism.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/goingoutguide/restaurants/my-columns-name-does-a-disservice-to-the-immigrants-whose-food-i-celebrate-so-im-dropping-it/2018/12/31/101a28de-07c8-11e9-85b6-41c0fe0c5b8f_story.html


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/04/22/the-great-ethnic-food-lie/

That’s absurd. It’s simple economics- places like the bahn mi shops in Virfinja are “cheap eats” because the ingredients are affordable and its a sandwich shop setting in a mall, not a high-rent fancy restaurant in downtown DC with waiters and sommeliers etc. The entire business model is immigrants providing cheap eats to other immigrants. And of course fine dining is incredibly diverse in this area these days, with “immigrant” cuisine regularly included

Immigrants are willing to work (both themselves and their children) at below-market wages to gain upward mobility. A tale as old as time. Cheap Italian food followed the early 20th century Italian immigration wave that included my great-grandparents. But the U.S. is not experiencing economic migration from poor Europeans right now; ergo, no cheap European ethnic food.