Why is there so much premium on western/european food?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nice how OP doesn't mention expensive Japanese restaurants, as those don't align with the point she wants to make.

That's because expensive Japanese typically means omakase or waygu. There's nothing you can do about the price of fish when Tuna now goes for over $1M because it is becoming increasingly endangered. It has nothing to do with the ethnicity of the food, but the price of the ingredients mostly.

Take a look at Ramen. It takes a massive amount of prep. Good places will make their own noodles and stocks from scratch. How much are you willing to pay? I bet $20 or so, max. Meanwhile an Italian place and gouge your eyes out for veal parm over $30, or some vegetable pasta for over $20-25.

veal parm cooked to order is more labor intensive & expensive ingredients than ramen. ramen is economical food - a huge vat of broth, dunk in noodles, add a few slices of cheap protein sliced thin.

What a load of malarkey. Good ramen base starts with bones that you create stock from. It requires hours of boiling. Tons of bonito can be added. Then you have to sear and prep the meat. If you're making noddles from scratch it takes even more work. Perhaps you're getting tempura ramen, which requires even more work battering and frying ingredients.

Veal parm, smash thin, bread, very little spices are added, fry, and add premade tomato sauce and lots of cheese. That doesn't require a full day of prep like ramen.

Ramen in Japan is fast and usually cheap food. I have been in and out of I don’t know how many ramen places in 30 min or less.

Same thing for pad Thai in Thailand…
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3UU2_08IsvI

This has nothing to do with race/identity in America.

Exactly. You make a giant vat of broth, prep the meat and veg, preboil the noodles, and you can make a bowl of ramen in 60 seconds.

And then it is immediately served and supposed to be immediately consumed, while still very hot. It's a quick dish, not fine dining (although it can be quite yummy).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've had the same rant about Italian food for years. It's one of the easiest cuisines in the world to cook. Is it tasty? Yes. Can anyone cook it well? Yes. There is nothing complex about it. Good ingredients make the dishes.

Some of the Asian cuisines on the other hand.....lots of work and technique.

I disagree with you about French cuisine though.

Ha! Try making a sfogliatelle!

[Anonymous]

I don't know how old OP is but I'm 43, and there are no so many more non-Western food options everywhere nowadays, even in my midsize city. Asian/Korean hotpot, Thai, multiple Indian, Persian, Middle Eastern, Ethiopian, Japanese, even a few "authentic" Chinese aka not Americanized Chinese, and of course, variations of different Latino cuisines. Every year there's more and more of the non-Western restaurants opening up. Reflecting the demographic changes, surely. It always takes a bit of time to catch up.

My mother likes to point out that when she was growing up in the 50s, Italian was seen as ethnic and exotic! And that was your standard spaghetti in red sauce.

[Anonymous]

Hollywood has had a hand in glamorizing swanky French restaurants and Italian was once sexy and exotic/ethnic with their straw wrapped Chianti bottles and Sophia Loren cooking pasta in the kitchen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nice how OP doesn't mention expensive Japanese restaurants, as those don't align with the point she wants to make.

That's because expensive Japanese typically means omakase or waygu. There's nothing you can do about the price of fish when Tuna now goes for over $1M because it is becoming increasingly endangered. It has nothing to do with the ethnicity of the food, but the price of the ingredients mostly.

Take a look at Ramen. It takes a massive amount of prep. Good places will make their own noodles and stocks from scratch. How much are you willing to pay? I bet $20 or so, max. Meanwhile an Italian place and gouge your eyes out for veal parm over $30, or some vegetable pasta for over $20-25.

veal parm cooked to order is more labor intensive & expensive ingredients than ramen. ramen is economical food - a huge vat of broth, dunk in noodles, add a few slices of cheap protein sliced thin.

What a load of malarkey. Good ramen base starts with bones that you create stock from. It requires hours of boiling. Tons of bonito can be added. Then you have to sear and prep the meat. If you're making noddles from scratch it takes even more work. Perhaps you're getting tempura ramen, which requires even more work battering and frying ingredients.

Veal parm, smash thin, bread, very little spices are added, fry, and add premade tomato sauce and lots of cheese. That doesn't require a full day of prep like ramen.

Now compare the price of bones vs fresh veal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nice how OP doesn't mention expensive Japanese restaurants, as those don't align with the point she wants to make.

That's because expensive Japanese typically means omakase or waygu. There's nothing you can do about the price of fish when Tuna now goes for over $1M because it is becoming increasingly endangered. It has nothing to do with the ethnicity of the food, but the price of the ingredients mostly.

Take a look at Ramen. It takes a massive amount of prep. Good places will make their own noodles and stocks from scratch. How much are you willing to pay? I bet $20 or so, max. Meanwhile an Italian place and gouge your eyes out for veal parm over $30, or some vegetable pasta for over $20-25.

veal parm cooked to order is more labor intensive & expensive ingredients than ramen. ramen is economical food - a huge vat of broth, dunk in noodles, add a few slices of cheap protein sliced thin.

What a load of malarkey. Good ramen base starts with bones that you create stock from. It requires hours of boiling. Tons of bonito can be added. Then you have to sear and prep the meat. If you're making noddles from scratch it takes even more work. Perhaps you're getting tempura ramen, which requires even more work battering and frying ingredients.

Veal parm, smash thin, bread, very little spices are added, fry, and add premade tomato sauce and lots of cheese. That doesn't require a full day of prep like ramen.

Now compare the price of bones vs fresh veal.

Well once these things start getting trendy, even bones will get expensive! Just look what happened to the price of oxtail when oxtail dishes moved from “ethnic” to trendy. And then when the cost DOES skyrocket in response to demand, OP will be back here whining about cultural appropriation and the gentrification of stews. 🤡

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nice how OP doesn't mention expensive Japanese restaurants, as those don't align with the point she wants to make.

That's because expensive Japanese typically means omakase or waygu. There's nothing you can do about the price of fish when Tuna now goes for over $1M because it is becoming increasingly endangered. It has nothing to do with the ethnicity of the food, but the price of the ingredients mostly.

Take a look at Ramen. It takes a massive amount of prep. Good places will make their own noodles and stocks from scratch. How much are you willing to pay? I bet $20 or so, max. Meanwhile an Italian place and gouge your eyes out for veal parm over $30, or some vegetable pasta for over $20-25.

veal parm cooked to order is more labor intensive & expensive ingredients than ramen. ramen is economical food - a huge vat of broth, dunk in noodles, add a few slices of cheap protein sliced thin.

What a load of malarkey. Good ramen base starts with bones that you create stock from. It requires hours of boiling. Tons of bonito can be added. Then you have to sear and prep the meat. If you're making noddles from scratch it takes even more work. Perhaps you're getting tempura ramen, which requires even more work battering and frying ingredients.

Veal parm, smash thin, bread, very little spices are added, fry, and add premade tomato sauce and lots of cheese. That doesn't require a full day of prep like ramen.

Now compare the price of bones vs fresh veal.

Oh please, many Italian places will still try to charge $30 for chicken or eggplant parm, lol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nice how OP doesn't mention expensive Japanese restaurants, as those don't align with the point she wants to make.

That's because expensive Japanese typically means omakase or waygu. There's nothing you can do about the price of fish when Tuna now goes for over $1M because it is becoming increasingly endangered. It has nothing to do with the ethnicity of the food, but the price of the ingredients mostly.

Take a look at Ramen. It takes a massive amount of prep. Good places will make their own noodles and stocks from scratch. How much are you willing to pay? I bet $20 or so, max. Meanwhile an Italian place and gouge your eyes out for veal parm over $30, or some vegetable pasta for over $20-25.

veal parm cooked to order is more labor intensive & expensive ingredients than ramen. ramen is economical food - a huge vat of broth, dunk in noodles, add a few slices of cheap protein sliced thin.

What a load of malarkey. Good ramen base starts with bones that you create stock from. It requires hours of boiling. Tons of bonito can be added. Then you have to sear and prep the meat. If you're making noddles from scratch it takes even more work. Perhaps you're getting tempura ramen, which requires even more work battering and frying ingredients.

Veal parm, smash thin, bread, very little spices are added, fry, and add premade tomato sauce and lots of cheese. That doesn't require a full day of prep like ramen.

Now compare the price of bones vs fresh veal.

Oh please, many Italian places will still try to charge $30 for chicken or eggplant parm, lol.

So? You don't need to go. But a bone broth is peasant food and priced out as such.

[Anonymous]

Reading this thread with a great interest, as I am an immigrant who lives in a somewhat ethnic neighborhood, but the old guard has died out and the next generation Americanized and spread out, so the area is now more mixed with other immigrant groups moving in. It’s interesting to observe how some food places chose to adapt and go mainstream (and raise their prices) vs others who are staying “cheap ethnic”. So, what makes the difference? First of all, the labor. Would you go to a place where you have to communicate with the waiters or the cooks via Google translate? If not, you are paying more. And, chances are, the interpretation of the labor laws is very liberal with lots of don’t ask, don’t tell, that saves you money as well. Second, aesthetics. That clean and bright with tasteful lettering and reclaimed wood decor cost way more and doesn’t come naturally, so the advice costs too. Then you have to adapt the taste of some dishes and add things to the menu that you normally would not, like the kid menu that is expected by the urban foodies who work on developing the palates of their kids, now you have to have organic juice boxes on hand. All in, it’s a different place with a different service and different prices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nice how OP doesn't mention expensive Japanese restaurants, as those don't align with the point she wants to make.

That's because expensive Japanese typically means omakase or waygu. There's nothing you can do about the price of fish when Tuna now goes for over $1M because it is becoming increasingly endangered. It has nothing to do with the ethnicity of the food, but the price of the ingredients mostly.

Take a look at Ramen. It takes a massive amount of prep. Good places will make their own noodles and stocks from scratch. How much are you willing to pay? I bet $20 or so, max. Meanwhile an Italian place and gouge your eyes out for veal parm over $30, or some vegetable pasta for over $20-25.

veal parm cooked to order is more labor intensive & expensive ingredients than ramen. ramen is economical food - a huge vat of broth, dunk in noodles, add a few slices of cheap protein sliced thin.

What a load of malarkey. Good ramen base starts with bones that you create stock from. It requires hours of boiling. Tons of bonito can be added. Then you have to sear and prep the meat. If you're making noddles from scratch it takes even more work. Perhaps you're getting tempura ramen, which requires even more work battering and frying ingredients.

Veal parm, smash thin, bread, very little spices are added, fry, and add premade tomato sauce and lots of cheese. That doesn't require a full day of prep like ramen.

Now compare the price of bones vs fresh veal.

Oh please, many Italian places will still try to charge $30 for chicken or eggplant parm, lol.

So? You don't need to go. But a bone broth is peasant food and priced out as such.

Lololololol. Tons of Italian food is garbage peasant food, yet sold at premium prices to idiots like you. Polenta, risotto, etc.

Even dishes like bouillabaisse is poor people food, yet because it is French pay up!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Reading this thread with a great interest, as I am an immigrant who lives in a somewhat ethnic neighborhood, but the old guard has died out and the next generation Americanized and spread out, so the area is now more mixed with other immigrant groups moving in. It’s interesting to observe how some food places chose to adapt and go mainstream (and raise their prices) vs others who are staying “cheap ethnic”. So, what makes the difference? First of all, the labor. Would you go to a place where you have to communicate with the waiters or the cooks via Google translate? If not, you are paying more. And, chances are, the interpretation of the labor laws is very liberal with lots of don’t ask, don’t tell, that saves you money as well. Second, aesthetics. That clean and bright with tasteful lettering and reclaimed wood decor cost way more and doesn’t come naturally, so the advice costs too. Then you have to adapt the taste of some dishes and add things to the menu that you normally would not, like the kid menu that is expected by the urban foodies who work on developing the palates of their kids, now you have to have organic juice boxes on hand. All in, it’s a different place with a different service and different prices.

exactly. not to mention that in the DMV, most “ethnic” places are in the suburbs with much cheaper rent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nice how OP doesn't mention expensive Japanese restaurants, as those don't align with the point she wants to make.

That's because expensive Japanese typically means omakase or waygu. There's nothing you can do about the price of fish when Tuna now goes for over $1M because it is becoming increasingly endangered. It has nothing to do with the ethnicity of the food, but the price of the ingredients mostly.

Take a look at Ramen. It takes a massive amount of prep. Good places will make their own noodles and stocks from scratch. How much are you willing to pay? I bet $20 or so, max. Meanwhile an Italian place and gouge your eyes out for veal parm over $30, or some vegetable pasta for over $20-25.

veal parm cooked to order is more labor intensive & expensive ingredients than ramen. ramen is economical food - a huge vat of broth, dunk in noodles, add a few slices of cheap protein sliced thin.

What a load of malarkey. Good ramen base starts with bones that you create stock from. It requires hours of boiling. Tons of bonito can be added. Then you have to sear and prep the meat. If you're making noddles from scratch it takes even more work. Perhaps you're getting tempura ramen, which requires even more work battering and frying ingredients.

Veal parm, smash thin, bread, very little spices are added, fry, and add premade tomato sauce and lots of cheese. That doesn't require a full day of prep like ramen.

Now compare the price of bones vs fresh veal.

Oh please, many Italian places will still try to charge $30 for chicken or eggplant parm, lol.

So? You don't need to go. But a bone broth is peasant food and priced out as such.

Lololololol. Tons of Italian food is garbage peasant food, yet sold at premium prices to idiots like you. Polenta, risotto, etc.

Even dishes like bouillabaisse is poor people food, yet because it is French pay up!

Yes that’s right, French food is racist

[Anonymous]

To reframe--I don't eat much Italian food in the US because I lived in Italy and what passes for Italian food here is gross. I haven't lived in Japan or Thailand so I don't know what I do know.

[Anonymous]

I don't think this is about the particular cuisine.

Everyone has their own palette. But generally, you can eat very well at a reasonable cost in France, Italy, Norway, Denmark, Croatia, and other European countries.

Any you can eat extraordinarily well at reasonable cost in China, Thailand, India, and even Japan. Not to mention Peru, Mexico, and Brazil.

But the restaurant situation in the DMV has been mediocre for a while. Far too often, restaurants try to cater to "American" tastes. So much Chinese and Italian food here is basically market tested schlep that would never fly in Shanghai or Milan. And you can't fault the restaurants for that historically. It's immigrants trying to make a living. And dishes are adjusted accordingly.

The real problem is the cost of real estate. You might have the greatest Korean chef in the world. But they are not cooking on K street. They are in Annandale. And the food might be great, but it won't be a luxurious experience because the owner invests nothing in decor or staff and all the other things that make a dining experience special.

It's a two way street. The old timey Italian and French restaurants have an advantage bc they've been here longer. They have better real estate situations. And they have the generation that grew up with Jacques Pepin and Julia Child. And later Giada and Gordon Ramsey.

So it's a weird situation. For good food, you head to the exurbs. For a dining experience, you go downtown.

Perhaps one day, they will intertwine. Just a good bistro. Or a takoyaki place. Or thali. Simply good affordable food in a warm, comfortable, welcoming place.

Seems like a big ask these days

[Anonymous]

Erm, there's a LOT of western / european foods that are NOT celebrated for good reason.
No one EVER talks about English cuisine because it's really pretty terrible (clotted cream, mincemeat pie, fruitcake anyone?)
Likewise, no one talks about Dutch, Norwegian, Finnish, Belgian, Swiss foods either. Because they are pretty uninteresting.
Some people like German food - once in a while. But German food isn't known for vegetables and fruits. Like English cuisine, it's meat and potatoes and not particularly flavorful preparations of them. Don't even get me started on Czech and Polish food. Even more starch and meat with even less flavor.
I feel like France, Greece and Italy actually appreciate vegetables and knows how to include them in their dishes. Maybe that's why their cuisine is more popular?