Top colleges that are actually on the table for unhooked standard strong kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Assuming full suite of GPA, test scores, and strong but not recruited ECs.

I'd say
UChicago ED
Wash U (st louis)
Vandy
Brown ED
ND
Service Academies
JHU
Northwestern ED

+Rice

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Debate will help if you are good enough to make the university team, as in having a national or international achievement record. DC’s school had a number (high-single digit) of kids taking math three years post-calc. They all did well, though mostly not HYPSM.

So they took BC calc in 9th grade ? That’s MIT level rare

NP no, at our school they come in advanced and start doubling up in maths starting in 10th grade. Or doing math outside schools. Or - usually - both. Then again, we usually have 1-2 kids who go to MIT each year out of a class that's under 150 kids

[Anonymous]

Interesting speculation.

But at our W school this year, every kid my DC knows who was admitted ED/EA who was not a recruited athlete was seemingly unhooked. In other words, there were some URM recruited athletes. But excluding those, all who got into "top" schools in the ED/EA round were white and Asian and DC doesn't think they were legacies (it's possible a couple were, but the ones DC knows well were not legacies).

So *all* of these schools (MIT, Princeton, Penn, Brown, etc.) were accessible by unhooked kids. At least this year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Assuming full suite of GPA, test scores, and strong but not recruited ECs.

I'd say
UChicago ED
Wash U (st louis)
Vandy
Brown ED
ND
Service Academies
JHU
Northwestern ED

Not sure about Hopkins. 47% of class of 2027 was white and Asian. https://apply.jhu.edu/fast-facts/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What if you are 4.0 UW, 12 APs, all 5s on APs, 2 years post BC Calc, with strong ECs...what is possible...If you are saying "standard strong" is 3.85 UW, 8 APs

That’s why it’s important to define standard strong before throwing out names. Your student is strong. Better than standard strong.

disagree. standard strong in DCUM world is 3.9 plus in a known, rigorous high school where 3.9 is top 5% of the class. AP count is rather meaningless. 8 vs 12 would have more to do with school policy of limits, etc. Test scores are 1550+. The two years post BC Calc is impressive but unusual and not more impressive than a state debate champ, which is also standard strong.

IOW, these are kids who would have had a very good chance at a top 10 uni even just pre covid.

I think it also depends on the major.

My super high stats kid from a magnet got shut out from T15.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand this post. These schools all have tiny admission rates and it all depends on who else is applying from your school's current grade. At our private one year there will be unhooked Yale and Princeton admits. The next year it will be Harvard, Duke and Northwestern who are unhooked. It all depends on who else is applying from your class and what their grades and hooks are.

Example: If there is a legacy, valedictorian with a 4.0 applying to Northwestern, the unhooked 3.85 is probably not getting in. If there are no hooked applicants and the 4.0 valedictorian does not apply to Northwestern, the 3.85 might get in.

our HS has a fair amount of hooked kids who gobble up these spots. we never have a year when there are no unhooked kids applying to HYP and this leaving the door open to regular standard strong. we even have a fair amount of double hooked kids. URM plus legacy. Or URM plus athletics. this is a private school so they're all pretty coached in this so it's not unusual to see a hooked plus kid. When that is the state of play, there's no chance for the unhooked standard strong kid to get a seat at many top schools. (this is also why some privates limit applications. too many hooked kids who are really strong academically too)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What if you are 4.0 UW, 12 APs, all 5s on APs, 2 years post BC Calc, with strong ECs...what is possible...If you are saying "standard strong" is 3.85 UW, 8 APs

That’s why it’s important to define standard strong before throwing out names. Your student is strong. Better than standard strong.

disagree. standard strong in DCUM world is 3.9 plus in a known, rigorous high school where 3.9 is top 5% of the class. AP count is rather meaningless. 8 vs 12 would have more to do with school policy of limits, etc. Test scores are 1550+. The two years post BC Calc is impressive but unusual and not more impressive than a state debate champ, which is also standard strong.

IOW, these are kids who would have had a very good chance at a top 10 uni even just pre covid.

I don’t think standard strong is a state debate champ. I thought standard strong was a really great student with high GPA, rigor, high SAT (1500) and good EC, but not a top standout?

Top standouts have a chances at top schools, and it’s at least worth apply to. Standard strong students are definitely a notch below. They don’t show exemplary interest, devotion, passion. But perhaps I’ve been misinterpreting the term! I appreciate the discussion.

I think you've got it spot-on. Our junior is standard strong. Great kid; will be an even better adult. Hasn't yet found that calling--and so will look for it at Wisconsin (or wherever) instead of Harvard (or wherever).

I would say this applies to even very strong, stats wise. My DC's stats:

Magnet
4.92 wgpa
4.0 unwgpa
SAT 1580
12 APs, all 5s but one (FL)
Eagle Scout, but not much else in terms of great ec.s.

Shut out of T15, but DC is a CS major. Attending state flagship with merit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What if you are 4.0 UW, 12 APs, all 5s on APs, 2 years post BC Calc, with strong ECs...what is possible...If you are saying "standard strong" is 3.85 UW, 8 APs

That’s why it’s important to define standard strong before throwing out names. Your student is strong. Better than standard strong.

disagree. standard strong in DCUM world is 3.9 plus in a known, rigorous high school where 3.9 is top 5% of the class. AP count is rather meaningless. 8 vs 12 would have more to do with school policy of limits, etc. Test scores are 1550+. The two years post BC Calc is impressive but unusual and not more impressive than a state debate champ, which is also standard strong.

IOW, these are kids who would have had a very good chance at a top 10 uni even just pre covid.

I don’t think standard strong is a state debate champ. I thought standard strong was a really great student with high GPA, rigor, high SAT (1500) and good EC, but not a top standout?

Top standouts have a chances at top schools, and it’s at least worth apply to. Standard strong students are definitely a notch below. They don’t show exemplary interest, devotion, passion. But perhaps I’ve been misinterpreting the term! I appreciate the discussion.

I think you've got it spot-on. Our junior is standard strong. Great kid; will be an even better adult. Hasn't yet found that calling--and so will look for it at Wisconsin (or wherever) instead of Harvard (or wherever).

I would say this applies to even very strong, stats wise. My DC's stats:

Magnet
4.92 wgpa
4.0 unwgpa
SAT 1580
12 APs, all 5s but one (FL)
Eagle Scout, but not much else in terms of great ec.s.

Shut out of T15, but DC is a CS major. Attending state flagship with merit.

For CS that's an excellent outcome. Probably the toughest major for admissions right now, if white/Asian and male.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Assuming full suite of GPA, test scores, and strong but not recruited ECs.

I'd say
UChicago ED
Wash U (st louis)
Vandy
Brown ED
ND
Service Academies
JHU
Northwestern ED

I'd add
Rice

Subtract
Brown

and say ED on all of them.
Assuming top rigor, 1500 plus scores, 3.9 plus UW GPA, college prep program, good recs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Assuming full suite of GPA, test scores, and strong but not recruited ECs.

I'd say
UChicago ED
Wash U (st louis)
Vandy
Brown ED
ND
Service Academies
JHU
Northwestern ED

Not sure about Hopkins. 47% of class of 2027 was white and Asian. https://apply.jhu.edu/fast-facts/

FYI: The final count (who showed up in fall 2023) was 50.7%. Also, the majority of International students are from China.
Source: https://oir.jhu.edu/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Assuming full suite of GPA, test scores, and strong but not recruited ECs.

I'd say
UChicago ED
Wash U (st louis)
Vandy
Brown ED
ND
Service Academies
JHU
Northwestern ED

Not sure about Hopkins. 47% of class of 2027 was white and Asian. https://apply.jhu.edu/fast-facts/

FYI: The final count (who showed up in fall 2023) was 50.7%. Also, the majority of International students are from China.
Source: https://oir.jhu.edu/

TBF, China has a ton of people compared to other countries. Only India is at their level, and they also send a ton of students to the US.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What if you are 4.0 UW, 12 APs, all 5s on APs, 2 years post BC Calc, with strong ECs...what is possible...If you are saying "standard strong" is 3.85 UW, 8 APs

You've won the right to enter the Hunger Games. May the odds be ever in your favor. Pick your favorite and ED, but still have some schools with >50% acceptance rates lined up and learn to love them, they are great schools too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Interesting speculation.

But at our W school this year, every kid my DC knows who was admitted ED/EA who was not a recruited athlete was seemingly unhooked. In other words, there were some URM recruited athletes. But excluding those, all who got into "top" schools in the ED/EA round were white and Asian and DC doesn't think they were legacies (it's possible a couple were, but the ones DC knows well were not legacies).

So *all* of these schools (MIT, Princeton, Penn, Brown, etc.) were accessible by unhooked kids. At least this year.

Yes, but how many similar others also applied and didn't get the spot? Lots.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Assuming full suite of GPA, test scores, and strong but not recruited ECs.

I'd say
UChicago ED
Wash U (st louis)
Vandy
Brown ED
ND
Service Academies
JHU
Northwestern ED

I agree with all except Brown ED. Maybe Cornell, but not Brown.

I know an unhooked, standard strong kid who got into Brown ED this year. In fact, I know two unhooked, standard strong kids who got into Yale ED this year. All from public schools. The idea that only Olympic athletes and kids who did published research at NIH get in to these schools is just wrong.

.

But also not common.

[Anonymous]

My kid was rejected at Brown ED. I am figuring no chance at Dartmouth or Tufts RD either.

Which I'm fine with - she has acceptances at several "less prestigious" honors colleges with lots of merit that I'd be happy with. But I'm not looking forward to more rejection.

Stats: 3.91 UW, 4.58 W, 10 AP or IBs
Varsity sports, strong leadership EC's
1400 SAT (Test Optional unsubmitted)