What can a K-8 do to Keep Students through 8th?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand the “stay kids longer” thread on here. Kids hit puberty at way different times. For some kids, I can see “staying a kid longer” but the kids who are shaving and menstruating by 7th grade are just no longer kids. They want different things entirely. Keeping them kids longer is absolutely the opposite of what they want.

It has nothing to do with puberty, that's nuts.
Sixth graders who have hit puberty (which is most, IME) are not adults or even young adults. They're kids. They need to play and be silly. They need appropriate scaffolding for academic and study skills.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The best fix would be for there to be more openings in this area at grades 9-12. This is unlikely to happen for various reasons (e.g., land is expensive inside the beltway; schools dislike having split campuses if they have a choice, others).

These 9-12 schools have been their current sizes for decades. They have charters with DC and Montgomery County to enroll a precise number of students. They have staffing to enroll that exact number. When Covid hit and some of them had a bubble 9th grade class (an increase of only 10 students in some cases) all went to hell in terms of scheduling and electives, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand the “stay kids longer” thread on here. Kids hit puberty at way different times. For some kids, I can see “staying a kid longer” but the kids who are shaving and menstruating by 7th grade are just no longer kids. They want different things entirely. Keeping them kids longer is absolutely the opposite of what they want.

It has nothing to do with puberty, that's nuts.
Sixth graders who have hit puberty (which is most, IME) are not adults or even young adults. They're kids. They need to play and be silly. They need appropriate scaffolding for academic and study skills.

Some kids, especially by 7th and 8th, are ready for more. Yes they need to have fun. But they're sometimes kind of over the "be silly" thing, and they're sometimes ready for *less* scaffolding and more taking pride in their own abilities, responsibilities, and independence. There's a wide range of typical and appropriate maturity levels for this age group and that's okay. If too many of the other kids at a small school are still in kid mode or even sort of immature or need social and behavioral scaffolding, that can be less enjoyable and less growth-supporting for the kid who happens to be more mature.

[Anonymous]

Super curious what kind of educational philosophy supports concealing low performance so that a kid can get into a high school they wouldn't otherwise be admitted to. Progressive? Classical? Waldorf? It's a mystery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Help parents feel really confident that if they stay through 8th the school will help them get into the HS they want.

THIS! They leave early to avoid the additional competition of all the 8th graders applying out to high school at the same time.

Unless the HoS has blackmail material on high school admissions officers, there is nothing they can do to make parents feel that graduating 8th graders will get the high school that the want

Agreed. Worse is that these parents simply refuse to accept the truth about their kids. 'The high school that they want' is likely not the high school they deserve/can handle. Every kid is not an academic star, no matter how much tuition you've paid. Complaints about teaching quality or the school's quality is far less a factor in a desired HS rejection/wait list status, than it is contributed to the kid. Aptitude is largely genetic, and parental enabling or facilitation of laziness combine to result in that desired HS being out of reach. It is what it is! Some of those parents cannot be satisfied because they are delusional -- harsh but true.

IMO, it would be helpful for K-8 schools to approach outplacement in a similar fashion to HS college counseling. Meaning, that in grade 7, begin meeting with parents about *REASONABLE* expectations and HS options they should target. Help parents understand what schools appear to be best fit in a customized way. K-8s could strengthen existing relationships/linkages with certain schools and arrange tours and/or events at those 'next step' schools to give students exposure to those schools and staff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Super curious what kind of educational philosophy supports concealing low performance so that a kid can get into a high school they wouldn't otherwise be admitted to. Progressive? Classical? Waldorf? It's a mystery.

The kind of philosophy that relies on those kids' parents' tuition checks to remain viable

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand the “stay kids longer” thread on here. Kids hit puberty at way different times. For some kids, I can see “staying a kid longer” but the kids who are shaving and menstruating by 7th grade are just no longer kids. They want different things entirely. Keeping them kids longer is absolutely the opposite of what they want.

It has nothing to do with puberty, that's nuts.
Sixth graders who have hit puberty (which is most, IME) are not adults or even young adults. They're kids. They need to play and be silly. They need appropriate scaffolding for academic and study skills.

Some kids, especially by 7th and 8th, are ready for more. Yes they need to have fun. But they're sometimes kind of over the "be silly" thing, and they're sometimes ready for *less* scaffolding and more taking pride in their own abilities, responsibilities, and independence. There's a wide range of typical and appropriate maturity levels for this age group and that's okay. If too many of the other kids at a small school are still in kid mode or even sort of immature or need social and behavioral scaffolding, that can be less enjoyable and less growth-supporting for the kid who happens to be more mature.

YES; my kid! My 7th grader is notably more mature than classmates and is suffering from that. It is already a small toxic social group, adding the "be silly" immature behavior has turned to a miserable experience for DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Help parents feel really confident that if they stay through 8th the school will help them get into the HS they want.

THIS! They leave early to avoid the additional competition of all the 8th graders applying out to high school at the same time.

Unless the HoS has blackmail material on high school admissions officers, there is nothing they can do to make parents feel that graduating 8th graders will get the high school that the want

Agreed. Worse is that these parents simply refuse to accept the truth about their kids. 'The high school that they want' is likely not the high school they deserve/can handle. Every kid is not an academic star, no matter how much tuition you've paid. Complaints about teaching quality or the school's quality is far less a factor in a desired HS rejection/wait list status, than it is contributed to the kid. Aptitude is largely genetic, and parental enabling or facilitation of laziness combine to result in that desired HS being out of reach. It is what it is! Some of those parents cannot be satisfied because they are delusional -- harsh but true.

IMO, it would be helpful for K-8 schools to approach outplacement in a similar fashion to HS college counseling. Meaning, that in grade 7, begin meeting with parents about *REASONABLE* expectations and HS options they should target. Help parents understand what schools appear to be best fit in a customized way. K-8s could strengthen existing relationships/linkages with certain schools and arrange tours and/or events at those 'next step' schools to give students exposure to those schools and staff.

That sounds like inviting disaster. If you impress upon families how hard admission is, then you make it even more likely that they jump for k-12 or 3-12 whenever they can rather than wait and face longer odds. For the kids who you counsel to be more realistic, their families still may jump to the schools you identify as reach but possible to get a leg up. If you want real fun, tell a great student they don't have much of a shot at the school they want because their a few of their classmates' parents went there. That kid is going to apply out ASAP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Help parents feel really confident that if they stay through 8th the school will help them get into the HS they want.

THIS! They leave early to avoid the additional competition of all the 8th graders applying out to high school at the same time.

Unless the HoS has blackmail material on high school admissions officers, there is nothing they can do to make parents feel that graduating 8th graders will get the high school that the want

Agreed. Worse is that these parents simply refuse to accept the truth about their kids. 'The high school that they want' is likely not the high school they deserve/can handle. Every kid is not an academic star, no matter how much tuition you've paid. Complaints about teaching quality or the school's quality is far less a factor in a desired HS rejection/wait list status, than it is contributed to the kid. Aptitude is largely genetic, and parental enabling or facilitation of laziness combine to result in that desired HS being out of reach. It is what it is! Some of those parents cannot be satisfied because they are delusional -- harsh but true.

IMO, it would be helpful for K-8 schools to approach outplacement in a similar fashion to HS college counseling. Meaning, that in grade 7, begin meeting with parents about *REASONABLE* expectations and HS options they should target. Help parents understand what schools appear to be best fit in a customized way. K-8s could strengthen existing relationships/linkages with certain schools and arrange tours and/or events at those 'next step' schools to give students exposure to those schools and staff.

That sounds like inviting disaster. If you impress upon families how hard admission is, then you make it even more likely that they jump for k-12 or 3-12 whenever they can rather than wait and face longer odds. For the kids who you counsel to be more realistic, their families still may jump to the schools you identify as reach but possible to get a leg up. If you want real fun, tell a great student they don't have much of a shot at the school they want because their a few of their classmates' parents went there. That kid is going to apply out ASAP

I'm the PP you responded to, and I do not understand your post. I mentioned beginning the counseling process in grade 7. Any families still in a K-8 during grade 7, is either intent on graduating next year, or already intent on leaving applying out that fall (which is when the suggested counseling would initiate). So the whole fleeing disaster you describe is null.
Lastly, I did not imply K-8s should "impress upon families how hard admission is". What I referred to was communicating realistic and appropriate HS fits for each child. That is not the same, and believe me, everyone already know how hard the admission landscape is (nothing new disclose). It's about informing families of right fit for their child/children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Help parents feel really confident that if they stay through 8th the school will help them get into the HS they want.

THIS! They leave early to avoid the additional competition of all the 8th graders applying out to high school at the same time.

Unless the HoS has blackmail material on high school admissions officers, there is nothing they can do to make parents feel that graduating 8th graders will get the high school that the want

Agreed. Worse is that these parents simply refuse to accept the truth about their kids. 'The high school that they want' is likely not the high school they deserve/can handle. Every kid is not an academic star, no matter how much tuition you've paid. Complaints about teaching quality or the school's quality is far less a factor in a desired HS rejection/wait list status, than it is contributed to the kid. Aptitude is largely genetic, and parental enabling or facilitation of laziness combine to result in that desired HS being out of reach. It is what it is! Some of those parents cannot be satisfied because they are delusional -- harsh but true.

IMO, it would be helpful for K-8 schools to approach outplacement in a similar fashion to HS college counseling. Meaning, that in grade 7, begin meeting with parents about *REASONABLE* expectations and HS options they should target. Help parents understand what schools appear to be best fit in a customized way. K-8s could strengthen existing relationships/linkages with certain schools and arrange tours and/or events at those 'next step' schools to give students exposure to those schools and staff.

That sounds like inviting disaster. If you impress upon families how hard admission is, then you make it even more likely that they jump for k-12 or 3-12 whenever they can rather than wait and face longer odds. For the kids who you counsel to be more realistic, their families still may jump to the schools you identify as reach but possible to get a leg up. If you want real fun, tell a great student they don't have much of a shot at the school they want because their a few of their classmates' parents went there. That kid is going to apply out ASAP

I'm the PP you responded to, and I do not understand your post. I mentioned beginning the counseling process in grade 7. Any families still in a K-8 during grade 7, is either intent on graduating next year, or already intent on leaving applying out that fall (which is when the suggested counseling would initiate). So the whole fleeing disaster you describe is null.
Lastly, I did not imply K-8s should "impress upon families how hard admission is". What I referred to was communicating realistic and appropriate HS fits for each child. That is not the same, and believe me, everyone already know how hard the admission landscape is (nothing new disclose). It's about informing families of right fit for their child/children.

Being realistic is making them realize that their great k-8 does not mean they get a spot in the high school they desire because there are simply more kids graduating k-8 (not to mention public middle schools) than there are spaces for them at desirable high schools. I guess it is null, because it comes in too late to solve the problem people are worried about- kids jumping from k-8 early in order to get a spot in the high school they want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand the “stay kids longer” thread on here. Kids hit puberty at way different times. For some kids, I can see “staying a kid longer” but the kids who are shaving and menstruating by 7th grade are just no longer kids. They want different things entirely. Keeping them kids longer is absolutely the opposite of what they want.

It has nothing to do with puberty, that's nuts.
Sixth graders who have hit puberty (which is most, IME) are not adults or even young adults. They're kids. They need to play and be silly. They need appropriate scaffolding for academic and study skills.

Some kids, especially by 7th and 8th, are ready for more. Yes they need to have fun. But they're sometimes kind of over the "be silly" thing, and they're sometimes ready for *less* scaffolding and more taking pride in their own abilities, responsibilities, and independence. There's a wide range of typical and appropriate maturity levels for this age group and that's okay. If too many of the other kids at a small school are still in kid mode or even sort of immature or need social and behavioral scaffolding, that can be less enjoyable and less growth-supporting for the kid who happens to be more mature.

YES; my kid! My 7th grader is notably more mature than classmates and is suffering from that. It is already a small toxic social group, adding the "be silly" immature behavior has turned to a miserable experience for DC.

Yes. Is it "silly" or is it immaturity, being spoiled, or undiagnosed ADD? Then there's the pressure on the more mature kids to befriend and spend time with the less mature kids despite their behavior. And there aren't enough more-mature kids to make a social community that's appropriate to their maturity level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand the “stay kids longer” thread on here. Kids hit puberty at way different times. For some kids, I can see “staying a kid longer” but the kids who are shaving and menstruating by 7th grade are just no longer kids. They want different things entirely. Keeping them kids longer is absolutely the opposite of what they want.

It has nothing to do with puberty, that's nuts.
Sixth graders who have hit puberty (which is most, IME) are not adults or even young adults. They're kids. They need to play and be silly. They need appropriate scaffolding for academic and study skills.

I don't know how much puberty has to do with it at all. I started puberty way earlier than 6th grade and I felt like and was a kid way longer than it seems like alot of kids. I think it's way more outside influences thar contribute to it and yes MS too.

[Anonymous]

I don't think it's puberty. It's stuff like what books they're interested in, what kind of humor they find funny, how long their attention span, and their ability to engage in more sophisticated projects.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand the “stay kids longer” thread on here. Kids hit puberty at way different times. For some kids, I can see “staying a kid longer” but the kids who are shaving and menstruating by 7th grade are just no longer kids. They want different things entirely. Keeping them kids longer is absolutely the opposite of what they want.

Hmm. You could be right, but I'd say most kids do want a chance to kids longer, honestly I'd say it's best for kids whether they want to or not, like alot of things in life. They can still be challenged a bit more in school and explore other activities, they just need time to be kids. I don't really think puberty plays all that much into it. I started puberty pretty early and I definitely was still a kid well into teenhood. I think it's a combo of other kids, trying to fit in and be cool and parents/school pushing kids to grow up too fast. Plus, when kids hit MS things like recess are often eliminated and parents expect kids to do a million activities rather than organic, unstructured play/hang out with friends. People are basically telling these kids that they're too old to be kids. Which isn't true at all.

[Anonymous]

Wanting to be a kid for longer does not mean they want to spend all their time with age-peers who are immature. And it does not mean wanting to be academically bored or coddled and given no responsibility.