What can a K-8 do to Keep Students through 8th?

[Anonymous]

Agree that many kids want to spread their wings. Creating more of a public middle school environment would help — for 7 & 8th graders:

Lockers
Changing classes every period
Autonomy
Bigger class sizes and more students
Sports programs
Electives
Loosening of uniform requirements
Separation from lower grades
More privileges

Kids just want to be treated older and have more friend choices

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think you have to decide what kind of K-8 you want to be. If you're going for small, nurturing, special needs friendly, great for the late bloomer/shy/immature/spectrummy/parents-in-SPED-denial kind of situation, then try to really shine at that, and shine at matching kids to the right high school *for them* and managing parents' emotions about that. If you're prepping bright and capable kids to have strong high school options, that's a different kind of school. It's very hard to do both at once.

This is going to sounds like a harsh post to anyone who isn’t experiencing it, but PP, I 100% agree with you. Our school has a lot of the bolded kids, and it’s a tricky situation because many are admitted young and with older siblings who have already been at the school. The school is constantly trying to balance keeping a 2-3 headcount family happy while trying to manage those kids with higher needs, and they probably aren’t as honest about it as they should be. Then older sister and brother both get into a certain HS but the challenged youngest child doesn’t, and the family spreads the word that “the school isn’t good anymore.”

And every few years we have a couple of truly standout kids who stay through 8th and are admitted everywhere. They would do fine at any school in the country. Instead of realizing that these kids are unique standouts and that the school doesn’t actually have the resources or best track record of packaging kids to have this outcome, parents in younger grades see it as the rule and expect that their children will have a similar experience.

[Anonymous]

A lot of jumpers regret it. Just do you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A lot of jumpers regret it. Just do you.

I agree with this. We keep in touch with many of the families that left. They’ve expressed that they’re relieved to not worry about HS admissions but otherwise unhappy.

Unfortunately that doesn’t bring them back to our school or solve the problem of contagious admissions anxiety.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would take a hard look at middle school admissions. If you're admitting kids who aren't a great fit because you have space and need money, that's not necessarily a good idea in the long run. Take a very hard look at who you're admitting and what kind of total class dynamic it's producing. And be willing to accept an empty seat or spend more money on staffing rather than creating a class that will be more needy than you're able to manage.

totally true with our Bethesda K-8!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Help parents feel really confident that if they stay through 8th the school will help them get into the HS they want.

THIS! They leave early to avoid the additional competition of all the 8th graders applying out to high school at the same time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Help parents feel really confident that if they stay through 8th the school will help them get into the HS they want.

THIS! They leave early to avoid the additional competition of all the 8th graders applying out to high school at the same time.

Unless the HoS has blackmail material on high school admissions officers, there is nothing they can do to make parents feel that graduating 8th graders will get the high school that the want

[Anonymous]

I have thought of leaving early, but keep deciding that staying is the best option. This is because I am pretty confident that I wouldn't have the type of access to admin that I have at the k-8. My kids are known. Our family is know. It's a great feeling. My kids feel incredibly secure. So, ultimately, I felt that staying until 8th was in my kid's best interest. Additionally, I know the school will advocate hard for my kid when the time comes. It's truly a community.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Agree with the poster who said the middle school program should be enhanced. The typical selling points of K-8 are that they have been shown to be a more beneficial model vs stand-alone middle schools and 6-12 models.
Here's one study: https://www.nyu.edu/about/news-publications/n...tudent-outcomes.html


The other selling point is that the middle schoolers in a k-8 get to be kids longer and also get leadership opportunities in their schools.

But what these schools could do more is to further enhance the program. This includes through sports programs (e.g. offering a wider variety, if possible). Clubs -- adding robotics, debate, etc. Most schools now have affinity groups, but some lack the club opportunities. Our school has special trips for the middle school kids that challenge them (e.g. white water rafting) and plays that only cast middle schoolers. Kids have music lessons, but there's not school band (which could even be a jazz band), for example. I think a lot of this comes down to the fact that k-8s probably don't have the resources/staffing to provide some of this. That said, it would be welcome if they could/did.

Middle school kids in k-8 do get to stay kids longer, which I absolutely agree with. At least it did for me and my siblings. It would be interesting to hear from parents who didn't like this or experience it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Help parents feel really confident that if they stay through 8th the school will help them get into the HS they want.

THIS! They leave early to avoid the additional competition of all the 8th graders applying out to high school at the same time.

Unless the HoS has blackmail material on high school admissions officers, there is nothing they can do to make parents feel that graduating 8th graders will get the high school that the want

They can at least do a good job with the process. If the person leading the process doesn't seem highly competent, then parents will lose their nerve. It's happening at our PK-8 right now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree with the poster who said the middle school program should be enhanced. The typical selling points of K-8 are that they have been shown to be a more beneficial model vs stand-alone middle schools and 6-12 models.
Here's one study: https://www.nyu.edu/about/news-publications/n...tudent-outcomes.html


The other selling point is that the middle schoolers in a k-8 get to be kids longer and also get leadership opportunities in their schools.

But what these schools could do more is to further enhance the program. This includes through sports programs (e.g. offering a wider variety, if possible). Clubs -- adding robotics, debate, etc. Most schools now have affinity groups, but some lack the club opportunities. Our school has special trips for the middle school kids that challenge them (e.g. white water rafting) and plays that only cast middle schoolers. Kids have music lessons, but there's not school band (which could even be a jazz band), for example. I think a lot of this comes down to the fact that k-8s probably don't have the resources/staffing to provide some of this. That said, it would be welcome if they could/did.

Middle school kids in k-8 do get to stay kids longer, which I absolutely agree with. At least it did for me and my siblings. It would be interesting to hear from parents who didn't like this or experience it.

"Staying a kid longer" sounds great. But does it have to mean my kid is not challenged academically? It's hard for me to pay this much in tuition and accept high school uncertainty when I'm not feeling great about the academics. And does it have to mean being so "supported" and "nurtured" that you don't learn responsibility, don't learn self-advocacy, and you never have to take your lumps and struggle? Because those experiences can be really valuable and important, especially if you're looking for a larger high school setting.

[Anonymous]

Something as simple as an 8th grade trip will help some families stay.
My kid left a public that has an 8th grade language trip after 7th grade and my kid was loathe to leave for this reason. We almost put pause on the entire thing for this reason.

Also, as time marches on it will continue to be clear that attending a Big3 does not have the value for college admissions that it once did. I know that last year the admits from Bullis (for example) were pretty much just as impressive as those from NCS or Sidwell, especially for unconnected kids. And yet the NCS and Sidwell kids probably worked 4 times as hard in high school (with an often unreasonable amount of work). Who wants to go through this slog when it isn't necessary? You will have the prestige chasers who still put their kids through it but perhaps an increasing number of families will look elsewhere when there is really no end advantage (and frankly a disadvantage) unless your kid will end up in the top 10% of the Big3 (an almost impossible feat in our experience).

[Anonymous]

I don’t understand the “stay kids longer” thread on here. Kids hit puberty at way different times. For some kids, I can see “staying a kid longer” but the kids who are shaving and menstruating by 7th grade are just no longer kids. They want different things entirely. Keeping them kids longer is absolutely the opposite of what they want.

[Anonymous]

A fundamental challenge for K-8s in this area is a shortage of slots at good local privates for grades 9-12. Yes, there are some openings at 9th grade, but demand exceeds supply for the top 3/5/7/9 privates here.

Related, but somewhat separate, no top 3/5/7/9 school will fill all or most of its 9th openings from a single K-8. So one’s 8th grader is also competing with other 8th graders attending the same school for those few desirable 9th grade openings.

Lastly, legacy relationships also impact outplacement successes. A DC applying to a school whose mother/father attended (and has been donating to for years) will have an edge over an equally qualified applicant with no legacy relationships.

I totally believe that the better K-8s will have some students admitted at 9th grade to the top 3/5/7 schools. No K-8 is likely to have many students accepted to any single one of those, and an unhooked student has very different odds of admission than a hooked student.

These are some of the reasons that why many academically sound, but unhooked, students start applying out to other schools for 7th or 8th grade.

If the K-8 supports greater differentiation/acceleration, for example via multiple (e.g., math, english, science, or history) tracks, then that helps the unhooked bright capable child stand out in a way that a less differentiated curriculum would not permit. The flip side for the school is that less academically solid unhooked students might be more likely to leave early.

[Anonymous]

The best fix would be for there to be more openings in this area at grades 9-12. This is unlikely to happen for various reasons (e.g., land is expensive inside the beltway; schools dislike having split campuses if they have a choice, others).