What can a K-8 do to Keep Students through 8th?

[Anonymous]

We adore our K-8. We like the academics, the atnosphere, families, facilities, happy middle school environment, nuturing feeling. It's just a great place and we want both of our kids to stay through with. I'm feeling a little antsy, though, hearing about families jumping ship early. I think most want to secure a high school spot, others might be less happy, want a bigger environment, or a more competitive sports program, I'm not really sure. What, though, can a school do to retain more families? If you left your K-8 early, is there anything the school could have done to "keep" you?

[Anonymous]

I think about this a lot. We are not in DC/VA anymore. Our school used to be a place people scrambled to apply to in 3s preschool or K because they really wanted to secure those seats to have all the way through middle school. Our city grew rapidly just before the pandemic and put a ton of pressure on HS admissions. A decade ago, kids from certain schools could go to any HS they wanted to with the right grades and activities. Now, 5-12, 6-12 and 9-12 privates have expanded their geographic reach and our population has grown. Everyone thinks hard about jumping ship in 5th grade for fear of the 9th grade admissions lottery.

What could schools do to aid retention?

Offer tons of special programs in middle school to make up for its downsides:

Hands-on projects, travel programs, local field trips to unique destinations, and close connections and interactions with community members and local industries would make a huge difference. Get the kids away from cliquey or dysfunctional friend groups and the same toxic social patterns that recur in a small environment. Get them mixing with outsiders and multi-age groups in a structured way, and keep them busy.

Our school is constantly having the conversation about how to make the middle school grades more desirable, but the unstated problem is social. Middle school grades lose the “good” kids and they fill up with kids moving from public or from other cities, but also kids who really struggled socially at their current schools and couldn’t get into a “better” 5-12 or 6-12 school. The middle school social groups often end up dominated by left-behind kids who wanted to leave but couldn’t because they are not smart/sufficiently motivated, and new, merely quirky or flat-out difficult kids who couldn’t find their social scene at other schools. And then the cycle continues because families can’t see their kids among those middle school groups and they flee.

[Anonymous]

I agree with PP about what schools could do to entice parents and kids to want to stay for the MS years. However, I don’t agree it’s a good kid vs bad kid situation. The problem is ultimately size. MS age is a time of growth and exploration where friendships and desires naturally shift. Parents like the comfort of small size where you know everybody. That’s not necessarily as appealing to kids who are looking to spread their wings and get a little independence.

Additionally, planning big trips and/or unique activities cost more per individual because there is less people.

[Anonymous]

Agree with the poster who said the middle school program should be enhanced. The typical selling points of K-8 are that they have been shown to be a more beneficial model vs stand-alone middle schools and 6-12 models.
Here's one study: https://www.nyu.edu/about/news-publications/news/2017/october/attending-a-middle-vs--a-k-8-school-matters-for-student-outcomes.html


The other selling point is that the middle schoolers in a k-8 get to be kids longer and also get leadership opportunities in their schools.

But what these schools could do more is to further enhance the program. This includes through sports programs (e.g. offering a wider variety, if possible). Clubs -- adding robotics, debate, etc. Most schools now have affinity groups, but some lack the club opportunities. Our school has special trips for the middle school kids that challenge them (e.g. white water rafting) and plays that only cast middle schoolers. Kids have music lessons, but there's not school band (which could even be a jazz band), for example. I think a lot of this comes down to the fact that k-8s probably don't have the resources/staffing to provide some of this. That said, it would be welcome if they could/did.

[Anonymous]

Some parents get so anxious about being frozen out of the top schools that they will never not want to apply out if they think that they get an advantage at the K-12s. We stayed for both of ours because of the programs, leadership opportunities, etc. As an added bonus, staying opened up the HS-only schools. If we'd left for a K-12, my youngest would have probably not applied to and attended her current school which has been phenomenal for her.

[Anonymous]

Add 9-12. People jump because they view the early years of a k-8 as the important/formative years and they view the 9-12 school as more important than finishing at the k-8. I have also seen people want to move their kids early so that they get a year to adapt to the new school and expectations before grades go on high school transcripts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think about this a lot. We are not in DC/VA anymore. Our school used to be a place people scrambled to apply to in 3s preschool or K because they really wanted to secure those seats to have all the way through middle school. Our city grew rapidly just before the pandemic and put a ton of pressure on HS admissions. A decade ago, kids from certain schools could go to any HS they wanted to with the right grades and activities. Now, 5-12, 6-12 and 9-12 privates have expanded their geographic reach and our population has grown. Everyone thinks hard about jumping ship in 5th grade for fear of the 9th grade admissions lottery.

What could schools do to aid retention?

Offer tons of special programs in middle school to make up for its downsides:

Hands-on projects, travel programs, local field trips to unique destinations, and close connections and interactions with community members and local industries would make a huge difference. Get the kids away from cliquey or dysfunctional friend groups and the same toxic social patterns that recur in a small environment. Get them mixing with outsiders and multi-age groups in a structured way, and keep them busy.

Our school is constantly having the conversation about how to make the middle school grades more desirable, but the unstated problem is social. Middle school grades lose the “good” kids and they fill up with kids moving from public or from other cities, but also kids who really struggled socially at their current schools and couldn’t get into a “better” 5-12 or 6-12 school. The middle school social groups often end up dominated by left-behind kids who wanted to leave but couldn’t because they are not smart/sufficiently motivated, and new, merely quirky or flat-out difficult kids who couldn’t find their social scene at other schools. And then the cycle continues because families can’t see their kids among those middle school groups and they flee.

+1 This is EXACTLY our school, too. I couldn’t have said it better myself. I thought it was just our school!

We had one kid go all the way through, which was probably the best option for him, but after seeing how the social dynamics shifted and how hard it was when one truly awful personality took over his grade, we’re not lining up to repeat the experience again with our younger boy.

[Anonymous]

Stop caring about other people. Definitely don't let others make you antsy. The gift of a k-8 is the last years, where your child is a leader and where they can stay young a bit longer, instead of growing up too fast at a stand alone middle school or being the youngest if it goes to 12.
People in this area move a lot. People will leave your school for all the good reasons you mentioned. But you should keep your head down and remember that the k-8 model is really great and take advantage of it.

[Anonymous]

They need to create more special grade-specific milestones so students are looking forward to subsequent years and don’t want to miss out on the next milestone. Our kids attended a k-8 in another state that did a fantastic job of this—way fewer families left than generally leave our k-8 here. 6-8th graders especially need to have big leadership/independence opportunities different from the norm and notably better versions of popular electives (band, robotics, public speaking, service, newspaper, etc that are not just your average club). A big unique 8th grade trip is good as well.

Separately they need to have differentiated math and language programs where kids can complete geometry and level 1 of a language by 8th.

[Anonymous]

1) Really strong high school placement program. Make sure parents know, starting in 4th grade or so, how your high school placement works, who is in charge of it, and what your school's track record is. Have an info session for families with kids in grades 4-7 with a presentation geared towards retaining them, that's separate from the 8th grade actual-application-process presentation. If parents don't have confidence in this process, implement changes.

2) Maintain the quality of your academics even if you have the dynamic where the more academically advanced kids leave early. Communicate early and often to parents about specifically how you're going to provide appropriate academics to the outlier kids. The same goes for kids who are more developmentally mature and ready for the challenges and opportunities of a bigger school. Is your middle school helping them grow in executive functioning? There's a fine line between "supportive" and being too forgiving, too indulgent, not letting them make their own mistakes and experience the consequences.

3) The dynamic where the more capable and well-behaved kids leave early and the kids who are left are less smart, less well-behaved, or more likely to have special needs is very real. People are going to be unwilling to talk about this, it's an awkward and sensitive topic. But that's what a lot of this is really about.

[Anonymous]

For us, it was the desire for a stronger math program, and that the attrition going into middle school created the dynamic PPs have described. Of course, to lock in a nice high school path is very important, but it wouldn't have been a driving factor for us absent these other reasons.

[Anonymous]

Help parents feel really confident that if they stay through 8th the school will help them get into the HS they want.

[Anonymous]

I think the most important thing to do is to gather feedback from families with a very, very open mind and a desire to hear things that are critical or negative.

People will say "for high school" or "for sports" or whatever rationale is socially acceptable and doesn't offend others. They'll see what school they get into and then pick a reason that matches the school. And those reasons are true, but it doesn't mean they were perfectly satisfied with their K-8. If you really want to improve retention, you have to dig a little deeper under those reasons and find out what would make people more satisfied. Some people are always going to leave due to high school or wanting a bigger environment. But you can reduce the number of people who leave, or reduce how many other schools they apply to, which makes it more likely some of them will stay.

[Anonymous]

I would take a hard look at middle school admissions. If you're admitting kids who aren't a great fit because you have space and need money, that's not necessarily a good idea in the long run. Take a very hard look at who you're admitting and what kind of total class dynamic it's producing. And be willing to accept an empty seat or spend more money on staffing rather than creating a class that will be more needy than you're able to manage.

[Anonymous]

I worry about this. I think a lot of people leave for public middle school in Arlington and for more challenging math.