Jerusalem Terror Attack

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody's going to talk about this?

There was an attack by Hamas gunmen at a West Bank checkpoint near Jerusalem. It was supposed to turn into a massacre on a big scale. Soldiers thwarted that and one soldier died in the process (five other soldiers injured).

It's starting to look like, "If you don't accept our terrorist attacks, we'll do MORE."

Well that’s one less IDF soldier to terrorize/kill Palestinians. He should have chosen an occupation that doesn’t involve apartheid.

I am pro ceasefire. However, this sort of callous disregard for life will not get us to a peaceful solution, we need to work together to reach that position. We all need to start dousing this fire of hatred instead of adding more logs to it.

The pro ceasefire side is made up of people who are either 1) pro Hamas, 2) anti Israel 3) anti semitic 4) perhaps well enough intentioned but biased people who are naive enough to think there can be (another) ceasefire in which Hamas doesn’t surrender. Most of the latter group are probably new to giving any sense of crap about the Arab Israeli conflict, get their news from sites ridden with misinformation like Twitter and Instagram, or heavily biased sources like the BBC or the NYT, and have no historical knowledge about the plethora of ceasefires Israel has made with Hamas and Hamas has broken, or of the multiple offers for a two state solution that Palestinians have rejected, time and again, because many extremists within their movement won’t accept the existence of Israel in any form, and because they start intifadas to stop the process each time.

After 10/7, hamas cannot be allowed to exist. It is (another) war crime that hamas have designed their infrastructure so that they cannot be reached without going through their civilian population to reach them.

I do believe, PP, that you are well intentioned and thank you for having humanity for life on both sides of the conflict. I just think your POV on a ceasefire is naive.

And also to mention- there can be NO ceasefire without releasing every single hostage that Hamas took who hasn’t already been executed.

Of course there can. If it were my relative being held captive, I would rather have a partial release of hostages in exchange for a temporary ceasefire, during which they can keep negotiating for more releases, than to have them all held indefinitely in the faint hope that the IDF will find and rescue them before they're killed, either by Hamas or accidentally by Israel.

Hamas's military capacity has been seriously degraded already. Israeli leaders should remember that there is almost no higher mitzvah than to redeem captives, and make a deal that frees some people immediately, which would have the other immediate benefit of saving the lives of Palestinian civilians.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This whole cycle of Hamas terrorism and Israel killing civilians in retaliation is not going to end. They all think they’re justified in doing it. This won’t end until they choose to work it out.

Yes, agree. Unfortunately, Israel is stuck killing civilians when Hamas uses them as human shields. The big takeaway is terrorists make terrible negotiating partners.

Israel doesn’t want to negotiate, nor do they want to stop settlements.

Not when that "negotiation" means a cease fire that leaves many Hamas terrorists alive on their border to continue their terrorist ways.
These barbarians committed unthinkable atrocities on 10/7 and you expect Israel to just turn the other cheek and let these evil monsters continue to exist?

NP.. agree that Hamas are terrorists.

But, you didn't address the bolded. The continuing encroachment on Palestinian lands made them angry. There were discussions of a peace deal, but that ended because of the continued settlements that Israel allowed.

And you expect Palestine to just turn the other cheek? If someone squatted in your backyard, would you just ignore it?

When settlers kill Palestinians, they are Zionists reclaiming the land given to Abraham by God. When Palestinians resist, they are terrorists

When settlers kill Palestinians, they are murderers living illegally on land that a reasonable government would realize it should have given up a long time ago if for no other reason than because it would improve security for Israel proper (I happen to think there are moral arguments for doing that, too, but it's also clear the occupation is actively making Israel less safe). They are also shandes.

When Palestinians kill Israeli civilians, they are also murderers, and they're fueling the insane arguments of the Israeli far right that there can be no such thing as coexistence on the land between two people who clearly aren't going anywhere.

You are correctly pointing out a double standard that some people want to employ, but in doing so, you're also perpetuating a zero-sum binary that really only serves Hamas and the messianic religious Zionist lunatics that pushed Likud into the majority in this Knesset.

More of this reasonable, relatively even-handed perspective, please.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody's going to talk about this?

There was an attack by Hamas gunmen at a West Bank checkpoint near Jerusalem. It was supposed to turn into a massacre on a big scale. Soldiers thwarted that and one soldier died in the process (five other soldiers injured).

It's starting to look like, "If you don't accept our terrorist attacks, we'll do MORE."

Well that’s one less IDF soldier to terrorize/kill Palestinians. He should have chosen an occupation that doesn’t involve apartheid.

I am pro ceasefire. However, this sort of callous disregard for life will not get us to a peaceful solution, we need to work together to reach that position. We all need to start dousing this fire of hatred instead of adding more logs to it.

The pro ceasefire side is made up of people who are either 1) pro Hamas, 2) anti Israel 3) anti semitic 4) perhaps well enough intentioned but biased people who are naive enough to think there can be (another) ceasefire in which Hamas doesn’t surrender. Most of the latter group are probably new to giving any sense of crap about the Arab Israeli conflict, get their news from sites ridden with misinformation like Twitter and Instagram, or heavily biased sources like the BBC or the NYT, and have no historical knowledge about the plethora of ceasefires Israel has made with Hamas and Hamas has broken, or of the multiple offers for a two state solution that Palestinians have rejected, time and again, because many extremists within their movement won’t accept the existence of Israel in any form, and because they start intifadas to stop the process each time.

After 10/7, hamas cannot be allowed to exist. It is (another) war crime that hamas have designed their infrastructure so that they cannot be reached without going through their civilian population to reach them.

I do believe, PP, that you are well intentioned and thank you for having humanity for life on both sides of the conflict. I just think your POV on a ceasefire is naive.

And also to mention- there can be NO ceasefire without releasing every single hostage that Hamas took who hasn’t already been executed.

Of course there can. If it were my relative being held captive, I would rather have a partial release of hostages in exchange for a temporary ceasefire, during which they can keep negotiating for more releases, than to have them all held indefinitely in the faint hope that the IDF will find and rescue them before they're killed, either by Hamas or accidentally by Israel.

Hamas's military capacity has been seriously degraded already. Israeli leaders should remember that there is almost no higher mitzvah than to redeem captives, and make a deal that frees some people immediately, which would have the other immediate benefit of saving the lives of Palestinian civilians.

That's one of the thorniest parts of the ceasefire proposition - both sides would be expected to comply with the cease fire. But due to the lack of centralization on the Hamas side, it's likely that one or more agitators would pop up at that time to provoke an Israeli response. Separately, the idea that Hamas leadership and their supposed war chest of misappropriated funds continue to live it up outside the immediate region is really reaching starting to boil over for even the most outspoken critics of the State of Israel's actions. Can we act on this apparent knowledge of their whereabouts and handle that business at some point? I think everyone should be OK with extrajudicial outcomes on that front.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody's going to talk about this?

There was an attack by Hamas gunmen at a West Bank checkpoint near Jerusalem. It was supposed to turn into a massacre on a big scale. Soldiers thwarted that and one soldier died in the process (five other soldiers injured).

It's starting to look like, "If you don't accept our terrorist attacks, we'll do MORE."

Well that’s one less IDF soldier to terrorize/kill Palestinians. He should have chosen an occupation that doesn’t involve apartheid.

I am pro ceasefire. However, this sort of callous disregard for life will not get us to a peaceful solution, we need to work together to reach that position. We all need to start dousing this fire of hatred instead of adding more logs to it.

The pro ceasefire side is made up of people who are either 1) pro Hamas, 2) anti Israel 3) anti semitic 4) perhaps well enough intentioned but biased people who are naive enough to think there can be (another) ceasefire in which Hamas doesn’t surrender. Most of the latter group are probably new to giving any sense of crap about the Arab Israeli conflict, get their news from sites ridden with misinformation like Twitter and Instagram, or heavily biased sources like the BBC or the NYT, and have no historical knowledge about the plethora of ceasefires Israel has made with Hamas and Hamas has broken, or of the multiple offers for a two state solution that Palestinians have rejected, time and again, because many extremists within their movement won’t accept the existence of Israel in any form, and because they start intifadas to stop the process each time.

After 10/7, hamas cannot be allowed to exist. It is (another) war crime that hamas have designed their infrastructure so that they cannot be reached without going through their civilian population to reach them.

I do believe, PP, that you are well intentioned and thank you for having humanity for life on both sides of the conflict. I just think your POV on a ceasefire is naive.

And also to mention- there can be NO ceasefire without releasing every single hostage that Hamas took who hasn’t already been executed.

Of course there can. If it were my relative being held captive, I would rather have a partial release of hostages in exchange for a temporary ceasefire, during which they can keep negotiating for more releases, than to have them all held indefinitely in the faint hope that the IDF will find and rescue them before they're killed, either by Hamas or accidentally by Israel.

Hamas's military capacity has been seriously degraded already. Israeli leaders should remember that there is almost no higher mitzvah than to redeem captives, and make a deal that frees some people immediately, which would have the other immediate benefit of saving the lives of Palestinian civilians.

That's one of the thorniest parts of the ceasefire proposition - both sides would be expected to comply with the cease fire. But due to the lack of centralization on the Hamas side, it's likely that one or more agitators would pop up at that time to provoke an Israeli response. Separately, the idea that Hamas leadership and their supposed war chest of misappropriated funds continue to live it up outside the immediate region is really reaching starting to boil over for even the most outspoken critics of the State of Israel's actions. Can we act on this apparent knowledge of their whereabouts and handle that business at some point? I think everyone should be OK with extrajudicial outcomes on that front.

The decentralized nature of Hamas and the other captors also presents the thorny practical problem of them figuring out where the hostages all are and getting agreement on releasing them while bombs are falling, they are on the run, and communications are all being monitored. Putting aside all other issues it is, from a practical logistics perspective, virtually impossible to do any of that right now.

As for assasinating Hamas' political leadership. While most of the world would have no issue with that in theory the unfortunate reality is that Israel has wasted most of its 10/7 chits on the bombing campaign and siege. Fake nationality passports and smuggling in weapons are not going to be as easily overlooked as they might normally be.

These are some of the problems with Bibi's chosen course of action. It makes releasing the hostages and targeted assasinations on foreign soil far more difficult. It's a shame because the course you suggest would have been a much better option than the course that was chosen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, Hamas knows that Bibi is weak and Israel is overstretched. They are going to poke and prod to find the weak points and goad Bibi into another failure.

I really wish the Generals would just put him in a jail cell and be rid of him.

I hope you meant to say get rid of Hamas. Put them all in a jail cell or under the ground

I hope IDF destroys Hamas.

But Bibi belongs in a prison cell. He has allowed global antisemitism to be released in a manner not seen since Nazi Germany due to his dereliction of duty and his petty domestic problems of his own making - the West Bank settlers, tacitly supporting Hamas at the expense of Fatah, removing security from the Gazan border, etc - that distracted him from Israel’s security.

Hamas may be destroyed, but they’ve succeeded in rousing the sleeping giant that is global antisemitism. Horrific in hindsight.

It's evident you have a strong hatred for Netanyahu.
But, nothing he has done has "allowed global antisemitism to be released." They have ALWAYS wanted to rid the world of Jews. The antisemites displaying proudly their hate for Jews has always been there - they are just making it public now because they believe it is acceptable. When you have others marching alongside you spouting the same ugly rhetoric, you tend to believe what you think and say is just fine.
But, Netanyahu did not "cause" this.

Being pro peace does not equate to antisemitism.

A kid was recently suspended and will be expelled for calling a kid a “stupid Jew”. Middle eastern kids are called terrorists and bullied for years and nothing happens.

I am horrified by what is happening in Gaza. Two wrongs don’t make a right. What hamas did on October 7 was truly evil and unforgivable. What Israel is doing to Palestinians in Gaza is equally bad and higher numbers. That is what the world is seeing and it is not antisemitism.

I’m pro peace and not killing babies and children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody's going to talk about this?

There was an attack by Hamas gunmen at a West Bank checkpoint near Jerusalem. It was supposed to turn into a massacre on a big scale. Soldiers thwarted that and one soldier died in the process (five other soldiers injured).

It's starting to look like, "If you don't accept our terrorist attacks, we'll do MORE."

Well that’s one less IDF soldier to terrorize/kill Palestinians. He should have chosen an occupation that doesn’t involve apartheid.

I am pro ceasefire. However, this sort of callous disregard for life will not get us to a peaceful solution, we need to work together to reach that position. We all need to start dousing this fire of hatred instead of adding more logs to it.

The pro ceasefire side is made up of people who are either 1) pro Hamas, 2) anti Israel 3) anti semitic 4) perhaps well enough intentioned but biased people who are naive enough to think there can be (another) ceasefire in which Hamas doesn’t surrender. Most of the latter group are probably new to giving any sense of crap about the Arab Israeli conflict, get their news from sites ridden with misinformation like Twitter and Instagram, or heavily biased sources like the BBC or the NYT, and have no historical knowledge about the plethora of ceasefires Israel has made with Hamas and Hamas has broken, or of the multiple offers for a two state solution that Palestinians have rejected, time and again, because many extremists within their movement won’t accept the existence of Israel in any form, and because they start intifadas to stop the process each time.

After 10/7, hamas cannot be allowed to exist. It is (another) war crime that hamas have designed their infrastructure so that they cannot be reached without going through their civilian population to reach them.

I do believe, PP, that you are well intentioned and thank you for having humanity for life on both sides of the conflict. I just think your POV on a ceasefire is naive.

Wow that is so convenient for you. Everyone but me and Israel are bad people who hate. So Israel has a right to steal their land and kill them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody's going to talk about this?

There was an attack by Hamas gunmen at a West Bank checkpoint near Jerusalem. It was supposed to turn into a massacre on a big scale. Soldiers thwarted that and one soldier died in the process (five other soldiers injured).

It's starting to look like, "If you don't accept our terrorist attacks, we'll do MORE."

Well that’s one less IDF soldier to terrorize/kill Palestinians. He should have chosen an occupation that doesn’t involve apartheid.

I am pro ceasefire. However, this sort of callous disregard for life will not get us to a peaceful solution, we need to work together to reach that position. We all need to start dousing this fire of hatred instead of adding more logs to it.

The pro ceasefire side is made up of people who are either 1) pro Hamas, 2) anti Israel 3) anti semitic 4) perhaps well enough intentioned but biased people who are naive enough to think there can be (another) ceasefire in which Hamas doesn’t surrender. Most of the latter group are probably new to giving any sense of crap about the Arab Israeli conflict, get their news from sites ridden with misinformation like Twitter and Instagram, or heavily biased sources like the BBC or the NYT, and have no historical knowledge about the plethora of ceasefires Israel has made with Hamas and Hamas has broken, or of the multiple offers for a two state solution that Palestinians have rejected, time and again, because many extremists within their movement won’t accept the existence of Israel in any form, and because they start intifadas to stop the process each time.

After 10/7, hamas cannot be allowed to exist. It is (another) war crime that hamas have designed their infrastructure so that they cannot be reached without going through their civilian population to reach them.

I do believe, PP, that you are well intentioned and thank you for having humanity for life on both sides of the conflict. I just think your POV on a ceasefire is naive.

And also to mention- there can be NO ceasefire without releasing every single hostage that Hamas took who hasn’t already been executed.

Of course there can. If it were my relative being held captive, I would rather have a partial release of hostages in exchange for a temporary ceasefire, during which they can keep negotiating for more releases, than to have them all held indefinitely in the faint hope that the IDF will find and rescue them before they're killed, either by Hamas or accidentally by Israel.

Hamas's military capacity has been seriously degraded already. Israeli leaders should remember that there is almost no higher mitzvah than to redeem captives, and make a deal that frees some people immediately, which would have the other immediate benefit of saving the lives of Palestinian civilians.

That's one of the thorniest parts of the ceasefire proposition - both sides would be expected to comply with the cease fire. But due to the lack of centralization on the Hamas side, it's likely that one or more agitators would pop up at that time to provoke an Israeli response. Separately, the idea that Hamas leadership and their supposed war chest of misappropriated funds continue to live it up outside the immediate region is really reaching starting to boil over for even the most outspoken critics of the State of Israel's actions. Can we act on this apparent knowledge of their whereabouts and handle that business at some point? I think everyone should be OK with extrajudicial outcomes on that front.

Has Israel tried to negotiate with Qatar for the Hamas leaders? If war is justified, why don’t they go to war with Qatar to “eliminate Hamas”