Saturday - Thousands expected to attend pro-Palestine march in DC for ceasefire in Israel-Hamas war

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jeff, as a Jew, that post is extremely offensive. I have been following the threads on here since October 7th, but never once have I posted. I see that your posts are clearly anti-Israel but you take pains to distinguish that stance from antisemitism. This latest post has crossed the line. And this is coming from a Jew who has no problem criticizing the Israeli government.

Please explain why saying the iron dome protects the lives of Israelis (rather than Jews) is antisemitic.

Pedantically, I suspect there are more than just Israelis in Israel. It would be more correct to say "protects people in Israel." Singling out individual groups is curious, regardless of who is doing it.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jeff, as a Jew, that post is extremely offensive. I have been following the threads on here since October 7th, but never once have I posted. I see that your posts are clearly anti-Israel but you take pains to distinguish that stance from antisemitism. This latest post has crossed the line. And this is coming from a Jew who has no problem criticizing the Israeli government.

Please explain why saying the iron dome protects the lives of Israelis (rather than Jews) is antisemitic.

Bc the majority of Israelis are Jews. You can separate the Israeli government from Jews as a whole but NOT the people living there.

You are irrational. Not all the people living there are Jews.

America is a majority Christian nation. Do we say that the US military only defends Christians?

You are twisting my words. I said the majority. I didn’t say all. And I never said that the Iron Dome ONLY protects Jews. But it’s disingenuous to ignore the fact that Israel is the ONLY majority-Jewish country in the world. I’ve often thought if antisemitism gets worse, where would we go? Many Jews have.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jeff, as a Jew, that post is extremely offensive. I have been following the threads on here since October 7th, but never once have I posted. I see that your posts are clearly anti-Israel but you take pains to distinguish that stance from antisemitism. This latest post has crossed the line. And this is coming from a Jew who has no problem criticizing the Israeli government.

Please explain why saying the iron dome protects the lives of Israelis (rather than Jews) is antisemitic.

Bc the majority of Israelis are Jews. You can separate the Israeli government from Jews as a whole but NOT the people living there.

You are irrational. Not all the people living there are Jews.

America is a majority Christian nation. Do we say that the US military only defends Christians?

You are twisting my words. I said the majority. I didn’t say all. And I never said that the Iron Dome ONLY protects Jews. But it’s disingenuous to ignore the fact that Israel is the ONLY majority-Jewish country in the world. I’ve often thought if antisemitism gets worse, where would we go? Many Jews have.

Where did I ignore that Israel is the only majority-Jewish country in the world? Jews and Israelis are not synonymous. Ironically, this is an argument that has been made on DCUM a bunch of times by Jewish posters. Your allegation against me was wrong and I will appreciate a retraction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"From the River to the Sea" is a dog whistle.

Sure, you can argue that it's not. You sound just like Southerners when they talk about "States' Rights."

It is not a dog whistle in that an audience has to understand and appreciate the message in the dog whistle. In this case, people are telling you that “destroy Jews” or “kill all Israelis” or whatever you think it means is not what they hear - they dont hear the dog whistle. You can think they are misguided. I guess you can disbelieve them. But if you listen to people about what they are saying rather than what you assume they are saying, we will get further.

I appreciate that some probably do say this to mean “exterminate all Jews”. I also accept that most Israelis who voted for Likud do not want to murder all Palestinians (they use the phrase too).

If you can understand that the Arab Americans and the college kids marching are not saying what you fear they are, we might be able to get to a better place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"From the River to the Sea" is a dog whistle.

Sure, you can argue that it's not. You sound just like Southerners when they talk about "States' Rights."

It is not a dog whistle in that an audience has to understand and appreciate the message in the dog whistle. In this case, people are telling you that “destroy Jews” or “kill all Israelis” or whatever you think it means is not what they hear - they dont hear the dog whistle. You can think they are misguided. I guess you can disbelieve them. But if you listen to people about what they are saying rather than what you assume they are saying, we will get further.

I appreciate that some probably do say this to mean “exterminate all Jews”. I also accept that most Israelis who voted for Likud do not want to murder all Palestinians (they use the phrase too).

If you can understand that the Arab Americans and the college kids marching are not saying what you fear they are, we might be able to get to a better place.

this is so hypocritical though. how did we get from obsession with “microaggressions” - like asking someone where they are from or making tacos while white - to having the responsibility to “understand” that a statement commonly known to mean “destroy Israel” doesn’t actually mean that.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Until the rallies acknowledge and condemn Hamas, Erhadt than calling attacks justified, it’s difficult not to take this as antisemitic and calling for Israel’s destruction

I have no control over Hamas.

What I can do is protest my own governments actions.

And, much of the money sent to Israel by the US is to replenish the iron dome. So, you are protesting the US protecting the lives of Jews.

Lives of Israelis. Israel and Jews are not synonymous.

OK. Let's correct for accuracy.....

And, much of the money sent to Israel by the US is to replenish the iron dome. So, you are protesting the US protecting the lives of Jews and non-Jews living in Israel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They're calling for a cease fire, not an escalation. Some people care about human life.

are they also calling on Hamas to release the hostages

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jeff, as a Jew, that post is extremely offensive. I have been following the threads on here since October 7th, but never once have I posted. I see that your posts are clearly anti-Israel but you take pains to distinguish that stance from antisemitism. This latest post has crossed the line. And this is coming from a Jew who has no problem criticizing the Israeli government.

Please explain why saying the iron dome protects the lives of Israelis (rather than Jews) is antisemitic.

Pedantically, I suspect there are more than just Israelis in Israel. It would be more correct to say "protects people in Israel." Singling out individual groups is curious, regardless of who is doing it.

If the Israel could just protect Jewish lives they would. Any non Jews protected by iron dome is an accident of the system and viewed by the government as a waste of resources.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They're calling for a cease fire, not an escalation. Some people care about human life.

are they also calling on Hamas to release the hostages

The marchers are? I have not heard this from one person at any protest or march yet.
What I have seen is some of the marchers/supporters of this cause tearing down posters of kidnapped children and people that Hamas is holding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jeff, as a Jew, that post is extremely offensive. I have been following the threads on here since October 7th, but never once have I posted. I see that your posts are clearly anti-Israel but you take pains to distinguish that stance from antisemitism. This latest post has crossed the line. And this is coming from a Jew who has no problem criticizing the Israeli government.

Please explain why saying the iron dome protects the lives of Israelis (rather than Jews) is antisemitic.

Pedantically, I suspect there are more than just Israelis in Israel. It would be more correct to say "protects people in Israel." Singling out individual groups is curious, regardless of who is doing it.

If the Israel could just protect Jewish lives they would. Any non Jews protected by iron dome is an accident of the system and viewed by the government as a waste of resources.

Just stop with the crap. You know this isn't true. And, if you don't..... you are too far gone to engage with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We've all seen the swastikas and the hate speech.We've seen law firms rescind offers to students signing anti-semitic screeds. Most people don't want to be associated with these protesters. So I imagine that those that do will be the worst of the worst. And of course most will be masked. Just like the KKK. Definitely would not attend if you have a career to think about

The vast majority of protests have been peaceful. I think there have only been a handful of incidents out of the hundred+ protests in the last few weeks? The ideal would be 0 incidents. The hate speech and swastikas have been a very small percentage of these people and I wouldn't want any person saying those things to show up. Of course showing up with swastikas is awful.

Yes, there will probably be chants of "from the river to the sea" and "free Palestine", but that is not hate speech, not in the US. You can pull up a bunch of articles written by people saying it is, and I can pull up articles written by people saying it's not. So it would be your perspective to say it's hate speech, but other people have a different perspective.

I mean, since you all think it's hate speech anyway and want to cancel them for saying free Palestine, why wouldn't they just say death chants or whatever if that's what they really meant? It's because it's not what the vast majority of people mean when they say it.

So let them exercise their first amendment rights. If we disagree with an action of our government, it is our right to protest peacefully. They are not terrorists or terrorist sympathizers. This is a call to our government to do what it can do to minimize the suffering of the innocent people of Gaza.

Almost everyone, Jews and Muslim, wants the violence to end. Hamas has broken the cease-fire every time.

Hamas does not equal all Palestinians. The protests are to protest using our tax dollars to kill Palestinians. I honestly don’t think this situation can end without much more death but how is it antisemitism to go to a protest?

Many of the protests feature antisemitic language and imagery. Sure, you may not believe in them, but why are you tolerating it? Aren't progressives the ones that coinced the phrase "Silence is Violence?"

Is there a way that I can protest my government showing this level of support to Israel without being anti-Semitic?

Because what I am getting from this thread and others is that expressing any sort of negative opinion about Israel is going to be labeled as anti-Semitic, hate speech, etc.

I appreciate this question. I think the protests organized by Jewish Voices for Peace are likely to be better than protests with keynote speakers like this: https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounder/mohammed-el-kurd

I think in general, this is a lesson on the limits of social media/protest etc as a way to “do something” about a political issue and a call to better inform yourself. The inherent shallowness and susceptibility to manipulation by political forces you don’t understand has always been there, but is made even more acute when it’s a matter of foreign affairs instead of something simpler like gun control.

But in any case, when you respond to a message you receive over mass media by posting something online or going to a protest, beware that you may be responding to a propaganda effort by powers you do not understand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"From the River to the Sea" is a dog whistle.

Sure, you can argue that it's not. You sound just like Southerners when they talk about "States' Rights."

It is not a dog whistle in that an audience has to understand and appreciate the message in the dog whistle. In this case, people are telling you that “destroy Jews” or “kill all Israelis” or whatever you think it means is not what they hear - they dont hear the dog whistle. You can think they are misguided. I guess you can disbelieve them. But if you listen to people about what they are saying rather than what you assume they are saying, we will get further.

I appreciate that some probably do say this to mean “exterminate all Jews”. I also accept that most Israelis who voted for Likud do not want to murder all Palestinians (they use the phrase too).

If you can understand that the Arab Americans and the college kids marching are not saying what you fear they are, we might be able to get to a better place.

this is so hypocritical though. how did we get from obsession with “microaggressions” - like asking someone where they are from or making tacos while white - to having the responsibility to “understand” that a statement commonly known to mean “destroy Israel” doesn’t actually mean that.

It is known in your circles. It is not known in mine (and I am a completely uninvolved outsider). It is also not what is understood in dorm rooms where kids are passing around pictures of deal Palestinian kids and saying “we have to do something”.

[Anonymous]

My college student will attend to call for a ceasefire—some of these posts are making me nervous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My college student will attend to call for a ceasefire—some of these posts are making me nervous.

Your college student will effectively attend to give support to an organization that breaks cease fires.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"From the River to the Sea" is a dog whistle.

Sure, you can argue that it's not. You sound just like Southerners when they talk about "States' Rights."

It is not a dog whistle in that an audience has to understand and appreciate the message in the dog whistle. In this case, people are telling you that “destroy Jews” or “kill all Israelis” or whatever you think it means is not what they hear - they dont hear the dog whistle. You can think they are misguided. I guess you can disbelieve them. But if you listen to people about what they are saying rather than what you assume they are saying, we will get further.

I appreciate that some probably do say this to mean “exterminate all Jews”. I also accept that most Israelis who voted for Likud do not want to murder all Palestinians (they use the phrase too).

If you can understand that the Arab Americans and the college kids marching are not saying what you fear they are, we might be able to get to a better place.

this is so hypocritical though. how did we get from obsession with “microaggressions” - like asking someone where they are from or making tacos while white - to having the responsibility to “understand” that a statement commonly known to mean “destroy Israel” doesn’t actually mean that.

It is known in your circles. It is not known in mine (and I am a completely uninvolved outsider). It is also not what is understood in dorm rooms where kids are passing around pictures of deal Palestinian kids and saying “we have to do something”.

Ok well if YOU choose to go to a protest and blindly chant what the leaders tell you, it really is your responsibility if that chant ends up being hateful. Why let yourself be manipulated?