Teachers, how would you take this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At every IEP meeting, the principal, sped teacher, and GenEd teacher have a preliminary meeting before the parents are invited in. It’s obvious that they already have a plan before the parent ever enters the room and is permitted to speak. Honestly, there’s not much air time given to the parent. And, it is obvious that they pre-decided everything ahead of the parent. It’s a frustrating process and a lot of hoop dee do.

I've taught for 20 years and been at three different schools....we never had a before meeting.

This is standard practice in FCPS. It’s arguably not legal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was in a student's special education meeting and we were all talking (the school team) with the parents and the mom was sort of sitting through the discussions and contributing while the father was sort of silently sitting there until the very end when the group proposed a plan (with a plan to check on the plan in six weeks) and he said "this all sounds like a great plan, but does Teacher X have everything she needs to actually accomplish what we all spent the past hour discussing? Because it doesn't seem fair to her or everyone's time if we reconvene and the answer is that circumstances prevented certain aspects of the plan (interventions, record keeping, etc) to actually be accomplished in a meaningful way. She has 28 students and this seems like a bit more work for her to take on." It got very weird after he spoke.

I was one of the teachers in the group (not the classroom teacher) and our principal actually took offense. I'm not sure if this makes sense, though. Am I missing something?

This seems like well known “good guy/bad guy” tactic you’ll find playing out in any serious negotiation.

Both parents likely knew what their role in the meeting would be beforehand, and it seems like they executed it with precision.

The parents also put the principal and school district on notice of what they’ll be sued for if they don’t execute the IEP.

Overloaded educator. Unqualified educator. Educator Absenteeism. Difficulties finding Qualified assistant or replacement educators. All these “circumstances” are simply pretext for discrimination.

The school must educate the student properly or else pay for their education elsewhere. This would have been a proper response from the principal to the parents.

+1 what I have been trying to say but not as eloquently thank you!

[Anonymous]

The question is entirely appropriate.

It really doesn’t matter if the dad didn’t say a word earlier in the meeting. The parents are a unit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. That dad was advocating for the teacher and his kid at the same time. I’m impressed

That's how I read it. Finally someone says something that we are all thinking but too scared to ask.

I feel this every time I'm in an IEP....we all sit there while parents request the sun and moon and everyone smiles and nods like we can in fact make it all happen. It's checking boxes-a beautiful completed document finished. Myself and the general teacher typically sitting there in shock that admin hasn't raised any concerns about the lack of resources....or that the plan is not realistic. Teachers often raise a leading question to put the ball in admins court but the ball lies there and we continue on with an unrealistic plan. The problem is everyone in this area is sue happy so no one will speak in a real and honest way with each other. It's a vicious cycle. No one wants to work in SPED anymore because teachers are not supported instead they are attacked. They are not supported in meetings-they are not supported with day to day happenings even when they clearly spell out what they and their students NEED. The system has been running on overload for many years and now it is breaking. People don't want to be SPED teachers or Ia's-because it is soul crushing. You can go to another field and sit at a desk have an hour lunch and not feel like you are failing all day every day. Teachers are not supported and when they try to talk to higher ups they are often met with nothing but gaslighting. I don't know what this dads intentions were but at least someone said something real. We need real dialogue and schools need to feel safe to say we can not fulfill your requests. Parents need to know there are limits with what public school education can do....REALITY is lacking in these meetings!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. That dad was advocating for the teacher and his kid at the same time. I’m impressed

That's how I read it. Finally someone says something that we are all thinking but too scared to ask.

The problem is there is no answer. No one is taking more jobs, the principal has no one to shift the work load too but other overloaded employees. There is no one there. So sure, ‘great question Dad’ if you feel that way, but there is no answer for him that anyone in that room can control.

It is like walking into Kaiser during the strike and asking why your prescription can’t be filled by the pharmacist. Because everyone is stressed out and on strike because everyone is trying to cover for all the lost employees to get your prescription. It’s a labor crisis, a systemic issue, the people in that room aren’t really the ones who are going to control it.

AMEN you can't take water from an empty well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At every IEP meeting, the principal, sped teacher, and GenEd teacher have a preliminary meeting before the parents are invited in. It’s obvious that they already have a plan before the parent ever enters the room and is permitted to speak. Honestly, there’s not much air time given to the parent. And, it is obvious that they pre-decided everything ahead of the parent. It’s a frustrating process and a lot of hoop dee do.

I've taught for 20 years and been at three different schools....we never had a before meeting.

This is standard practice in FCPS. It’s arguably not legal.

m
It’s absolutely not legal and it’s not standard. You can’t have an IEP meeting without the parents present.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At every IEP meeting, the principal, sped teacher, and GenEd teacher have a preliminary meeting before the parents are invited in. It’s obvious that they already have a plan before the parent ever enters the room and is permitted to speak. Honestly, there’s not much air time given to the parent. And, it is obvious that they pre-decided everything ahead of the parent. It’s a frustrating process and a lot of hoop dee do.

I've taught for 20 years and been at three different schools....we never had a before meeting.

This is standard practice in FCPS. It’s arguably not legal.

It is not standard practice. I have never heard of this before. You are just making up a conspiracy theory.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At every IEP meeting, the principal, sped teacher, and GenEd teacher have a preliminary meeting before the parents are invited in. It’s obvious that they already have a plan before the parent ever enters the room and is permitted to speak. Honestly, there’s not much air time given to the parent. And, it is obvious that they pre-decided everything ahead of the parent. It’s a frustrating process and a lot of hoop dee do.

I've taught for 20 years and been at three different schools....we never had a before meeting.

This is standard practice in FCPS. It’s arguably not legal.

It is not standard practice. I have never heard of this before. You are just making up a conspiracy theory.

So youbthinknthey put together the IEP benchmarks spontaneously at the meeting with parents and on the fly??
Um no, there's a mtg prior so none of the school staff is blindsided (just the parents) and so they're all in agreement and on the sane page (after looking at test results, observation notes, etc).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At every IEP meeting, the principal, sped teacher, and GenEd teacher have a preliminary meeting before the parents are invited in. It’s obvious that they already have a plan before the parent ever enters the room and is permitted to speak. Honestly, there’s not much air time given to the parent. And, it is obvious that they pre-decided everything ahead of the parent. It’s a frustrating process and a lot of hoop dee do.

Are you joking? I'm a special ed teacher and guarantee there are no "preliminary" meetings. I have over 15 students on my caseload and barely have time to attend regular IEP meetings, re-evals, and addendums in addition to actually teaching my classes and doing all required paperwork. There is literally no special ed teacher on the face of the earth who would agree to a preliminary meeting before every IEP meeting. We already don't have enough time to do our jobs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a teacher how would I take it?

Like it was mansplaining the problem to me.

Do I say thanks to a dad because pointing out all the inequities of the system I as a teacher have no control over, but am held accountable for and am operating within constantly?

I don’t know but we are all aware the system is broken. I guess the question is what is he going to do about beyond pointing out the issue. And will his advocacy lift up the people in the system or tear his kids team down?

What would your reaction have been if had been the mom who said this? Or if OP had not mentioned the gender of the parents in her description of the conversation? Would it still be mansplaining? Would you still be annoyed?

The weird part isn’t that the man said it. It is that (according to OP) he was silent through out the meeting and then chimed in at the end with a comment that boiled down to “I don’t think the teacher can really do this.”

If the mom was silent during the meeting, yes I would look at the comment as being manipulative because concerns should be addressed throughout. There are 2 options here for what he wanted:
- he was genuine concerned for the teacher’s workload. OR
- He is concerned his daughter isn’t/wont be getting real services.

He has set up the next meeting where he needs an advocate because he already voiced his concerns (At the very end of a meeting) and they weren’t met.

Sure, leave room for the possibility that he is acting out of concern for the well being of the kid or teacher. It could be!

It feels a bit patriarchal to have a Dad come in at the very end of the meeting (since mom chiming in during the entire meeting) to say “yeah, that probably won’t happen” without saying things throughout the meeting.

If Mom had done that, said nothing throughout the meeting and then was disparaging at the end, no it wouldnt’ be mansplaining, just manipulative. So, that’s my internalized misogyny using 2 different words to explain the same feeling that he isn’t trusting the teaching team.

Frankly, as a SPED parent and teacher I get where dad is coming from. Unfortunately we have the realities of a teaching crisis and not enough teachers as it is, so few kids are the most optimal development possible, but they are getting a basic education. This isn’t just a teaching crisis (see the Kaiser strike as an example) but in person workers everywhere are stressed. Maybe he was trying to fight for the teacher, but the way he did it was strange.

I don't know where people are getting that there was any concern (real or fake) for the teacher here. It clearly wasn't concern for the teacher herself, but rather concern about the teachers ability to actually do what they are assigned with doing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At every IEP meeting, the principal, sped teacher, and GenEd teacher have a preliminary meeting before the parents are invited in. It’s obvious that they already have a plan before the parent ever enters the room and is permitted to speak. Honestly, there’s not much air time given to the parent. And, it is obvious that they pre-decided everything ahead of the parent. It’s a frustrating process and a lot of hoop dee do.

I've taught for 20 years and been at three different schools....we never had a before meeting.

This is standard practice in FCPS. It’s arguably not legal.

It is not standard practice. I have never heard of this before. You are just making up a conspiracy theory.

So youbthinknthey put together the IEP benchmarks spontaneously at the meeting with parents and on the fly??
Um no, there's a mtg prior so none of the school staff is blindsided (just the parents) and so they're all in agreement and on the sane page (after looking at test results, observation notes, etc).

No, I told you earlier in the thread how that is done. Teachers give feedback. The case manager uses that feedback to revise goals. The team (the whole team) meets and discusses and either agrees or suggests other changes. There is no sneak meeting before the real meeting with everyone but the parents because that is not legal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a teacher how would I take it?

Like it was mansplaining the problem to me.

Do I say thanks to a dad because pointing out all the inequities of the system I as a teacher have no control over, but am held accountable for and am operating within constantly?

I don’t know but we are all aware the system is broken. I guess the question is what is he going to do about beyond pointing out the issue. And will his advocacy lift up the people in the system or tear his kids team down?

What would your reaction have been if had been the mom who said this? Or if OP had not mentioned the gender of the parents in her description of the conversation? Would it still be mansplaining? Would you still be annoyed?

The weird part isn’t that the man said it. It is that (according to OP) he was silent through out the meeting and then chimed in at the end with a comment that boiled down to “I don’t think the teacher can really do this.”

If the mom was silent during the meeting, yes I would look at the comment as being manipulative because concerns should be addressed throughout. There are 2 options here for what he wanted:
- he was genuine concerned for the teacher’s workload. OR
- He is concerned his daughter isn’t/wont be getting real services.

He has set up the next meeting where he needs an advocate because he already voiced his concerns (At the very end of a meeting) and they weren’t met.

Sure, leave room for the possibility that he is acting out of concern for the well being of the kid or teacher. It could be!

It feels a bit patriarchal to have a Dad come in at the very end of the meeting (since mom chiming in during the entire meeting) to say “yeah, that probably won’t happen” without saying things throughout the meeting.

If Mom had done that, said nothing throughout the meeting and then was disparaging at the end, no it wouldnt’ be mansplaining, just manipulative. So, that’s my internalized misogyny using 2 different words to explain the same feeling that he isn’t trusting the teaching team.

Frankly, as a SPED parent and teacher I get where dad is coming from. Unfortunately we have the realities of a teaching crisis and not enough teachers as it is, so few kids are the most optimal development possible, but they are getting a basic education. This isn’t just a teaching crisis (see the Kaiser strike as an example) but in person workers everywhere are stressed. Maybe he was trying to fight for the teacher, but the way he did it was strange.

I don't know where people are getting that there was any concern (real or fake) for the teacher here. It clearly wasn't concern for the teacher herself, but rather concern about the teachers ability to actually do what they are assigned with doing.

Yes because the dad knew NO teacher could reasonably do what was in that IEP for his child while ALSO teaching an entire class of children, some of whom also have IEPs of their own. Saying “this isn’t possible for a teacher without support from admin” isn’t saying “this teacher sucks.” It’s saying “this is not realistic to be implemented, so what will admin be doing to make it possible?”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At every IEP meeting, the principal, sped teacher, and GenEd teacher have a preliminary meeting before the parents are invited in. It’s obvious that they already have a plan before the parent ever enters the room and is permitted to speak. Honestly, there’s not much air time given to the parent. And, it is obvious that they pre-decided everything ahead of the parent. It’s a frustrating process and a lot of hoop dee do.

Are you joking? I'm a special ed teacher and guarantee there are no "preliminary" meetings. I have over 15 students on my caseload and barely have time to attend regular IEP meetings, re-evals, and addendums in addition to actually teaching my classes and doing all required paperwork. There is literally no special ed teacher on the face of the earth who would agree to a preliminary meeting before every IEP meeting. We already don't have enough time to do our jobs.

It’s not a long meeting, but it is a pre-meeting at our school. The teachers all prance by the parents in the wait room and meet with the principal for several minutes and then eventually the case manager comes out to finally invite the parent into the room. It is obvious that they pre-met.

[Anonymous]

It sounds like the dad thought his child needed a specialized teacher rather than gen Ed teacher. Maybe he thought a reading specialist or speech therapist or someone else would help his child better than the Gen Ed teacher already doing a million things. He wants to know how the Gen Ed teacher will fit it in vs his child getting pulled by a specialist:

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a teacher how would I take it?

Like it was mansplaining the problem to me.

Do I say thanks to a dad because pointing out all the inequities of the system I as a teacher have no control over, but am held accountable for and am operating within constantly?

I don’t know but we are all aware the system is broken. I guess the question is what is he going to do about beyond pointing out the issue. And will his advocacy lift up the people in the system or tear his kids team down?

What would your reaction have been if had been the mom who said this? Or if OP had not mentioned the gender of the parents in her description of the conversation? Would it still be mansplaining? Would you still be annoyed?

The weird part isn’t that the man said it. It is that (according to OP) he was silent through out the meeting and then chimed in at the end with a comment that boiled down to “I don’t think the teacher can really do this.”

If the mom was silent during the meeting, yes I would look at the comment as being manipulative because concerns should be addressed throughout. There are 2 options here for what he wanted:
- he was genuine concerned for the teacher’s workload. OR
- He is concerned his daughter isn’t/wont be getting real services.

He has set up the next meeting where he needs an advocate because he already voiced his concerns (At the very end of a meeting) and they weren’t met.

Sure, leave room for the possibility that he is acting out of concern for the well being of the kid or teacher. It could be!

It feels a bit patriarchal to have a Dad come in at the very end of the meeting (since mom chiming in during the entire meeting) to say “yeah, that probably won’t happen” without saying things throughout the meeting.

If Mom had done that, said nothing throughout the meeting and then was disparaging at the end, no it wouldnt’ be mansplaining, just manipulative. So, that’s my internalized misogyny using 2 different words to explain the same feeling that he isn’t trusting the teaching team.

Frankly, as a SPED parent and teacher I get where dad is coming from. Unfortunately we have the realities of a teaching crisis and not enough teachers as it is, so few kids are the most optimal development possible, but they are getting a basic education. This isn’t just a teaching crisis (see the Kaiser strike as an example) but in person workers everywhere are stressed. Maybe he was trying to fight for the teacher, but the way he did it was strange.

I don't know where people are getting that there was any concern (real or fake) for the teacher here. It clearly wasn't concern for the teacher herself, but rather concern about the teachers ability to actually do what they are assigned with doing.

Yes because the dad knew NO teacher could reasonably do what was in that IEP for his child while ALSO teaching an entire class of children, some of whom also have IEPs of their own. Saying “this isn’t possible for a teacher without support from admin” isn’t saying “this teacher sucks.” It’s saying “this is not realistic to be implemented, so what will admin be doing to make it possible?”

… and the only answer is the school has to expend extra $$$ to give the child a basic education or else they can expect another OCR complaint to US Ed Dept.