Dollars and cents

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Think of swimming cost like you do Costco vs Safeway. If you only want to buy the bare minimum the price per unit is going to be drastically higher than if you were to buy in bulk!

This is what I have a problem with. We have a talented swimmer who can’t make 5 practices a week because they are heavily involved in another sport. The kids that do swim five days a week get much more attention at meets and in practice, even though they aren’t any faster or paying any more. How does this make any sense? Seems like a pyramid scheme.

I don't think you really know what that means.

I know exactly what it means. And it’s not dissimilar.

The “elite” swimmers get a huge discount (financial benefit) at the expense of the people who don’t buy into the cult and promote the insanity of one-sport specialization at a young age. Seems like a pyramid to me. Recruit a bunch of tubes to subsidize the people that use all of the resources.

You just described something that clearly isn't a pyramid scheme, it's not even similar in the critical aspects and continuing to call it a pyramid scheme doesn't make it one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Without any estimating days off for meets and such (but did count two weeks off in spring, one of which includes a meet for those who travel) and our calendar actually starts two weeks earlier than what's listed with prices online, we are just under $100 per week for 45w of the year.

Just under $14 per practice at 7 swims per week.

RMSC NTG

We were RMSC NTG and I felt it was very reasonably priced for the # of practices and the level of competition. Plus meet fees were included.

Another RMSC NTG parent, for 8 practices per week it’s less than $5/hour if you include dryland hours. My middle schooler is closer to $6-7/hour but no dryland yet. We don’t pay anything additional for meet entry fees.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Think of swimming cost like you do Costco vs Safeway. If you only want to buy the bare minimum the price per unit is going to be drastically higher than if you were to buy in bulk!

This is what I have a problem with. We have a talented swimmer who can’t make 5 practices a week because they are heavily involved in another sport. The kids that do swim five days a week get much more attention at meets and in practice, even though they aren’t any faster or paying any more. How does this make any sense? Seems like a pyramid scheme.

I don't think you really know what that means.

I know exactly what it means. And it’s not dissimilar.

The “elite” swimmers get a huge discount (financial benefit) at the expense of the people who don’t buy into the cult and promote the insanity of one-sport specialization at a young age. Seems like a pyramid to me. Recruit a bunch of tubes to subsidize the people that use all of the resources.

You’re assuming the other strong swimmers don’t do other sports or activities.

[Anonymous]

RMSC is an awesome deal for what you get.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Think of swimming cost like you do Costco vs Safeway. If you only want to buy the bare minimum the price per unit is going to be drastically higher than if you were to buy in bulk!

This is what I have a problem with. We have a talented swimmer who can’t make 5 practices a week because they are heavily involved in another sport. The kids that do swim five days a week get much more attention at meets and in practice, even though they aren’t any faster or paying any more. How does this make any sense? Seems like a pyramid scheme.

I don't think you really know what that means.

I know exactly what it means. And it’s not dissimilar.

The “elite” swimmers get a huge discount (financial benefit) at the expense of the people who don’t buy into the cult and promote the insanity of one-sport specialization at a young age. Seems like a pyramid to me. Recruit a bunch of tubes to subsidize the people that use all of the resources.

You can have your kid join one of the clubs that doesn’t offer as many practices for age group swimmers, or has multiple training group options for age groupers based on the level of commitment you want to make to swimming. But I’m guessing you probably also want to benefit from the name brand of the club.

No, I really don’t care about the “brand”. What benefit does that give? I’m just stuck with what we have for the time being because it’s close to our house and we can’t get out money back for the year. I would gladly leave at this point.

Please, there are plenty of people in this area who just want to be able to say their kid is with RMSC/NCAP/Machine. Everything is a trade off. There are so many swimming clubs in the DMV that you have to do your due diligence to figure out what works best for your family and your swimmer. For some people the price point is king, for some it’s proximity to home, for some it’s access to high level training. If I had a multi sport athlete for whom swim was not their top sport, I probably wouldn’t go with one of the pricier clubs and would pay closer attention to things like practice requirement because I would know that my kid wouldn’t be able to make that type of commitment.

Yes, but what I’m saying is that we chose a practice group that only requires 2 days a week, and we pay much more per practice than parents that have kids in higher level practice groups with 6 practices per week. Even the 3 day a week group costs the same as the 6x per week groups.

That is something I didn’t realize when we signed up. If I had seen that, it would have been a red flag—but I just wasn’t looking at the cost this way. Now I am and I realize that it doesn’t make sense to pay the price we are paying for what we are getting. Consider this my PSA to the DCUM community I guess. Next year we will make a different decision.

This is true of many sports - sometimes you pay more for less practice time. Sometimes you pay more for lower quality instruction. Sometimes both. Club soccer C team is a prime example. Consider it a fixed cost plus a rate instead of just a rate. That is how the business is run anyway.

I’m involved in another sport and more instruction time equals more money on top of the base fee. Basic stuff. My swim club seems like an outlier, not the norm. I wonder why that is? I supposed the kids involved in the upper practice groups are getting a really good deal compared to other clubs and that’s how my club keeps them from bailing…. Doesn’t mean I have to like it, or accept it. Definitely moving on when we can.

So, let me see if I have this right - you have a kid in the 2x/week group and there is also a 3x/week group and a 6x/week group. Per practice, the 6x/week pay the least and you pay the most, is that right? But you pay the least in terms of total amount for the season?

If so, I don’t think other swim clubs do it differently. You are paying for the fixed cost like everyone else, but there are economies of scale for the ones who go more often, not to mention the guarantee of a bigger lump sum fee per swimmer. It’s like when hotels charge less per night for a 5 day stay than for a one night stay. Whether your kid is there twice a week or six times a week, the club still has to pay the accountant, pay for marketing, pay for insurance coverage - those are the fixed costs that everyone has to pay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Think of swimming cost like you do Costco vs Safeway. If you only want to buy the bare minimum the price per unit is going to be drastically higher than if you were to buy in bulk!

This is what I have a problem with. We have a talented swimmer who can’t make 5 practices a week because they are heavily involved in another sport. The kids that do swim five days a week get much more attention at meets and in practice, even though they aren’t any faster or paying any more. How does this make any sense? Seems like a pyramid scheme.

I don't think you really know what that means.

I know exactly what it means. And it’s not dissimilar.

The “elite” swimmers get a huge discount (financial benefit) at the expense of the people who don’t buy into the cult and promote the insanity of one-sport specialization at a young age. Seems like a pyramid to me. Recruit a bunch of tubes to subsidize the people that use all of the resources.

You can have your kid join one of the clubs that doesn’t offer as many practices for age group swimmers, or has multiple training group options for age groupers based on the level of commitment you want to make to swimming. But I’m guessing you probably also want to benefit from the name brand of the club.

No, I really don’t care about the “brand”. What benefit does that give? I’m just stuck with what we have for the time being because it’s close to our house and we can’t get out money back for the year. I would gladly leave at this point.

Please, there are plenty of people in this area who just want to be able to say their kid is with RMSC/NCAP/Machine. Everything is a trade off. There are so many swimming clubs in the DMV that you have to do your due diligence to figure out what works best for your family and your swimmer. For some people the price point is king, for some it’s proximity to home, for some it’s access to high level training. If I had a multi sport athlete for whom swim was not their top sport, I probably wouldn’t go with one of the pricier clubs and would pay closer attention to things like practice requirement because I would know that my kid wouldn’t be able to make that type of commitment.

Yes, but what I’m saying is that we chose a practice group that only requires 2 days a week, and we pay much more per practice than parents that have kids in higher level practice groups with 6 practices per week. Even the 3 day a week group costs the same as the 6x per week groups.

That is something I didn’t realize when we signed up. If I had seen that, it would have been a red flag—but I just wasn’t looking at the cost this way. Now I am and I realize that it doesn’t make sense to pay the price we are paying for what we are getting. Consider this my PSA to the DCUM community I guess. Next year we will make a different decision.

This is true of many sports - sometimes you pay more for less practice time. Sometimes you pay more for lower quality instruction. Sometimes both. Club soccer C team is a prime example. Consider it a fixed cost plus a rate instead of just a rate. That is how the business is run anyway.

I’m involved in another sport and more instruction time equals more money on top of the base fee. Basic stuff. My swim club seems like an outlier, not the norm. I wonder why that is? I supposed the kids involved in the upper practice groups are getting a really good deal compared to other clubs and that’s how my club keeps them from bailing…. Doesn’t mean I have to like it, or accept it. Definitely moving on when we can.

So, let me see if I have this right - you have a kid in the 2x/week group and there is also a 3x/week group and a 6x/week group. Per practice, the 6x/week pay the least and you pay the most, is that right? But you pay the least in terms of total amount for the season?

If so, I don’t think other swim clubs do it differently. You are paying for the fixed cost like everyone else, but there are economies of scale for the ones who go more often, not to mention the guarantee of a bigger lump sum fee per swimmer. It’s like when hotels charge less per night for a 5 day stay than for a one night stay. Whether your kid is there twice a week or six times a week, the club still has to pay the accountant, pay for marketing, pay for insurance coverage - those are the fixed costs that everyone has to pay.

No. The 3x week swimmers pay the same total as the 6x per week swimmers. The 2x per week swimmers pay less total. On a per session basis the 3x per week swimmers actually pay the most ~ 50 per session. Anyway. This isn’t typical at other clubs. The 6x per week group usually costs quite a bit more annually. My club is strange I guess.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Think of swimming cost like you do Costco vs Safeway. If you only want to buy the bare minimum the price per unit is going to be drastically higher than if you were to buy in bulk!

This is what I have a problem with. We have a talented swimmer who can’t make 5 practices a week because they are heavily involved in another sport. The kids that do swim five days a week get much more attention at meets and in practice, even though they aren’t any faster or paying any more. How does this make any sense? Seems like a pyramid scheme.

I don't think you really know what that means.

I know exactly what it means. And it’s not dissimilar.

The “elite” swimmers get a huge discount (financial benefit) at the expense of the people who don’t buy into the cult and promote the insanity of one-sport specialization at a young age. Seems like a pyramid to me. Recruit a bunch of tubes to subsidize the people that use all of the resources.

You can have your kid join one of the clubs that doesn’t offer as many practices for age group swimmers, or has multiple training group options for age groupers based on the level of commitment you want to make to swimming. But I’m guessing you probably also want to benefit from the name brand of the club.

No, I really don’t care about the “brand”. What benefit does that give? I’m just stuck with what we have for the time being because it’s close to our house and we can’t get out money back for the year. I would gladly leave at this point.

Please, there are plenty of people in this area who just want to be able to say their kid is with RMSC/NCAP/Machine. Everything is a trade off. There are so many swimming clubs in the DMV that you have to do your due diligence to figure out what works best for your family and your swimmer. For some people the price point is king, for some it’s proximity to home, for some it’s access to high level training. If I had a multi sport athlete for whom swim was not their top sport, I probably wouldn’t go with one of the pricier clubs and would pay closer attention to things like practice requirement because I would know that my kid wouldn’t be able to make that type of commitment.

Yes, but what I’m saying is that we chose a practice group that only requires 2 days a week, and we pay much more per practice than parents that have kids in higher level practice groups with 6 practices per week. Even the 3 day a week group costs the same as the 6x per week groups.

That is something I didn’t realize when we signed up. If I had seen that, it would have been a red flag—but I just wasn’t looking at the cost this way. Now I am and I realize that it doesn’t make sense to pay the price we are paying for what we are getting. Consider this my PSA to the DCUM community I guess. Next year we will make a different decision.

This is true of many sports - sometimes you pay more for less practice time. Sometimes you pay more for lower quality instruction. Sometimes both. Club soccer C team is a prime example. Consider it a fixed cost plus a rate instead of just a rate. That is how the business is run anyway.

I’m involved in another sport and more instruction time equals more money on top of the base fee. Basic stuff. My swim club seems like an outlier, not the norm. I wonder why that is? I supposed the kids involved in the upper practice groups are getting a really good deal compared to other clubs and that’s how my club keeps them from bailing…. Doesn’t mean I have to like it, or accept it. Definitely moving on when we can.

So, let me see if I have this right - you have a kid in the 2x/week group and there is also a 3x/week group and a 6x/week group. Per practice, the 6x/week pay the least and you pay the most, is that right? But you pay the least in terms of total amount for the season?

If so, I don’t think other swim clubs do it differently. You are paying for the fixed cost like everyone else, but there are economies of scale for the ones who go more often, not to mention the guarantee of a bigger lump sum fee per swimmer. It’s like when hotels charge less per night for a 5 day stay than for a one night stay. Whether your kid is there twice a week or six times a week, the club still has to pay the accountant, pay for marketing, pay for insurance coverage - those are the fixed costs that everyone has to pay.

No. The 3x week swimmers pay the same total as the 6x per week swimmers. The 2x per week swimmers pay less total. On a per session basis the 3x per week swimmers actually pay the most ~ 50 per session. Anyway. This isn’t typical at other clubs. The 6x per week group usually costs quite a bit more annually. My club is strange I guess.

The only way that would be typical in other clubs is if you signed your child up for a group that swims 6x per week and you choose to only bring your swimmer 2x a week.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:RMSC is an awesome deal for what you get.

It depends on the group size and coach. The lower level coaches are hir or miss and they charge more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Think of swimming cost like you do Costco vs Safeway. If you only want to buy the bare minimum the price per unit is going to be drastically higher than if you were to buy in bulk!

This is what I have a problem with. We have a talented swimmer who can’t make 5 practices a week because they are heavily involved in another sport. The kids that do swim five days a week get much more attention at meets and in practice, even though they aren’t any faster or paying any more. How does this make any sense? Seems like a pyramid scheme.

I don't think you really know what that means.

I know exactly what it means. And it’s not dissimilar.

The “elite” swimmers get a huge discount (financial benefit) at the expense of the people who don’t buy into the cult and promote the insanity of one-sport specialization at a young age. Seems like a pyramid to me. Recruit a bunch of tubes to subsidize the people that use all of the resources.

You can have your kid join one of the clubs that doesn’t offer as many practices for age group swimmers, or has multiple training group options for age groupers based on the level of commitment you want to make to swimming. But I’m guessing you probably also want to benefit from the name brand of the club.

No, I really don’t care about the “brand”. What benefit does that give? I’m just stuck with what we have for the time being because it’s close to our house and we can’t get out money back for the year. I would gladly leave at this point.

Please, there are plenty of people in this area who just want to be able to say their kid is with RMSC/NCAP/Machine. Everything is a trade off. There are so many swimming clubs in the DMV that you have to do your due diligence to figure out what works best for your family and your swimmer. For some people the price point is king, for some it’s proximity to home, for some it’s access to high level training. If I had a multi sport athlete for whom swim was not their top sport, I probably wouldn’t go with one of the pricier clubs and would pay closer attention to things like practice requirement because I would know that my kid wouldn’t be able to make that type of commitment.

Yes, but what I’m saying is that we chose a practice group that only requires 2 days a week, and we pay much more per practice than parents that have kids in higher level practice groups with 6 practices per week. Even the 3 day a week group costs the same as the 6x per week groups.

That is something I didn’t realize when we signed up. If I had seen that, it would have been a red flag—but I just wasn’t looking at the cost this way. Now I am and I realize that it doesn’t make sense to pay the price we are paying for what we are getting. Consider this my PSA to the DCUM community I guess. Next year we will make a different decision.

This is true of many sports - sometimes you pay more for less practice time. Sometimes you pay more for lower quality instruction. Sometimes both. Club soccer C team is a prime example. Consider it a fixed cost plus a rate instead of just a rate. That is how the business is run anyway.

I’m involved in another sport and more instruction time equals more money on top of the base fee. Basic stuff. My swim club seems like an outlier, not the norm. I wonder why that is? I supposed the kids involved in the upper practice groups are getting a really good deal compared to other clubs and that’s how my club keeps them from bailing…. Doesn’t mean I have to like it, or accept it. Definitely moving on when we can.

So, let me see if I have this right - you have a kid in the 2x/week group and there is also a 3x/week group and a 6x/week group. Per practice, the 6x/week pay the least and you pay the most, is that right? But you pay the least in terms of total amount for the season?

If so, I don’t think other swim clubs do it differently. You are paying for the fixed cost like everyone else, but there are economies of scale for the ones who go more often, not to mention the guarantee of a bigger lump sum fee per swimmer. It’s like when hotels charge less per night for a 5 day stay than for a one night stay. Whether your kid is there twice a week or six times a week, the club still has to pay the accountant, pay for marketing, pay for insurance coverage - those are the fixed costs that everyone has to pay.

No. The 3x week swimmers pay the same total as the 6x per week swimmers. The 2x per week swimmers pay less total. On a per session basis the 3x per week swimmers actually pay the most ~ 50 per session. Anyway. This isn’t typical at other clubs. The 6x per week group usually costs quite a bit more annually. My club is strange I guess.

So our club is priced similarly but not a pyramid scheme. The lower groups have less kids per lane and more coaches per lane. The reason is that they focus heavily on technique and less on yardage. I think most clubs are designed this way. Once a kid is moved up to the 6x a week groups the kid is considered to have good technique and be ready for heavy yardage (puberty is also a factor beyond skill set at our club, young kids should not swim heavy yards).

The more advanced groups have a lot more swimmers per lane and sometimes one coach will be on deck for the whole group. They are not getting as much technique work at that level.

This is why I caution parents not to push for their kids to get in the top groups. It is better to get that technique work for as long as possible. If they don't have the technique yet, the heavy yardage will reinforce bad habits.

But that also explain pricing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Think of swimming cost like you do Costco vs Safeway. If you only want to buy the bare minimum the price per unit is going to be drastically higher than if you were to buy in bulk!

This is what I have a problem with. We have a talented swimmer who can’t make 5 practices a week because they are heavily involved in another sport. The kids that do swim five days a week get much more attention at meets and in practice, even though they aren’t any faster or paying any more. How does this make any sense? Seems like a pyramid scheme.

I don't think you really know what that means.

I know exactly what it means. And it’s not dissimilar.

The “elite” swimmers get a huge discount (financial benefit) at the expense of the people who don’t buy into the cult and promote the insanity of one-sport specialization at a young age. Seems like a pyramid to me. Recruit a bunch of tubes to subsidize the people that use all of the resources.

You can have your kid join one of the clubs that doesn’t offer as many practices for age group swimmers, or has multiple training group options for age groupers based on the level of commitment you want to make to swimming. But I’m guessing you probably also want to benefit from the name brand of the club.

No, I really don’t care about the “brand”. What benefit does that give? I’m just stuck with what we have for the time being because it’s close to our house and we can’t get out money back for the year. I would gladly leave at this point.

Please, there are plenty of people in this area who just want to be able to say their kid is with RMSC/NCAP/Machine. Everything is a trade off. There are so many swimming clubs in the DMV that you have to do your due diligence to figure out what works best for your family and your swimmer. For some people the price point is king, for some it’s proximity to home, for some it’s access to high level training. If I had a multi sport athlete for whom swim was not their top sport, I probably wouldn’t go with one of the pricier clubs and would pay closer attention to things like practice requirement because I would know that my kid wouldn’t be able to make that type of commitment.

Yes, but what I’m saying is that we chose a practice group that only requires 2 days a week, and we pay much more per practice than parents that have kids in higher level practice groups with 6 practices per week. Even the 3 day a week group costs the same as the 6x per week groups.

That is something I didn’t realize when we signed up. If I had seen that, it would have been a red flag—but I just wasn’t looking at the cost this way. Now I am and I realize that it doesn’t make sense to pay the price we are paying for what we are getting. Consider this my PSA to the DCUM community I guess. Next year we will make a different decision.

This is true of many sports - sometimes you pay more for less practice time. Sometimes you pay more for lower quality instruction. Sometimes both. Club soccer C team is a prime example. Consider it a fixed cost plus a rate instead of just a rate. That is how the business is run anyway.

I’m involved in another sport and more instruction time equals more money on top of the base fee. Basic stuff. My swim club seems like an outlier, not the norm. I wonder why that is? I supposed the kids involved in the upper practice groups are getting a really good deal compared to other clubs and that’s how my club keeps them from bailing…. Doesn’t mean I have to like it, or accept it. Definitely moving on when we can.

So, let me see if I have this right - you have a kid in the 2x/week group and there is also a 3x/week group and a 6x/week group. Per practice, the 6x/week pay the least and you pay the most, is that right? But you pay the least in terms of total amount for the season?

If so, I don’t think other swim clubs do it differently. You are paying for the fixed cost like everyone else, but there are economies of scale for the ones who go more often, not to mention the guarantee of a bigger lump sum fee per swimmer. It’s like when hotels charge less per night for a 5 day stay than for a one night stay. Whether your kid is there twice a week or six times a week, the club still has to pay the accountant, pay for marketing, pay for insurance coverage - those are the fixed costs that everyone has to pay.

No. The 3x week swimmers pay the same total as the 6x per week swimmers. The 2x per week swimmers pay less total. On a per session basis the 3x per week swimmers actually pay the most ~ 50 per session. Anyway. This isn’t typical at other clubs. The 6x per week group usually costs quite a bit more annually. My club is strange I guess.

So our club is priced similarly but not a pyramid scheme. The lower groups have less kids per lane and more coaches per lane. The reason is that they focus heavily on technique and less on yardage. I think most clubs are designed this way. Once a kid is moved up to the 6x a week groups the kid is considered to have good technique and be ready for heavy yardage (puberty is also a factor beyond skill set at our club, young kids should not swim heavy yards).

The more advanced groups have a lot more swimmers per lane and sometimes one coach will be on deck for the whole group. They are not getting as much technique work at that level.

This is why I caution parents not to push for their kids to get in the top groups. It is better to get that technique work for as long as possible. If they don't have the technique yet, the heavy yardage will reinforce bad habits.

But that also explain pricing.

This sounds reasonable. Our experience with our club is that the lanes are quite crowded, and kids got no stroke correction in the less frequent practice groups. But the club has a few locations and maybe some of them are less crowded. Worth looking into.

[Anonymous]

DCs group practices 4 times/week in September and October, 3 times/week from November through February, then goes back to 4 times/week for March, April and May. Allowing for winter and spring breaks plus the occasional cancellation for a meet, I estimate that we're paying in the neighborhood of $25 per practice. Meet fees are extra.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Think of swimming cost like you do Costco vs Safeway. If you only want to buy the bare minimum the price per unit is going to be drastically higher than if you were to buy in bulk!

This is what I have a problem with. We have a talented swimmer who can’t make 5 practices a week because they are heavily involved in another sport. The kids that do swim five days a week get much more attention at meets and in practice, even though they aren’t any faster or paying any more. How does this make any sense? Seems like a pyramid scheme.

I don't think you really know what that means.

I know exactly what it means. And it’s not dissimilar.

The “elite” swimmers get a huge discount (financial benefit) at the expense of the people who don’t buy into the cult and promote the insanity of one-sport specialization at a young age. Seems like a pyramid to me. Recruit a bunch of tubes to subsidize the people that use all of the resources.

You can have your kid join one of the clubs that doesn’t offer as many practices for age group swimmers, or has multiple training group options for age groupers based on the level of commitment you want to make to swimming. But I’m guessing you probably also want to benefit from the name brand of the club.

No, I really don’t care about the “brand”. What benefit does that give? I’m just stuck with what we have for the time being because it’s close to our house and we can’t get out money back for the year. I would gladly leave at this point.

Please, there are plenty of people in this area who just want to be able to say their kid is with RMSC/NCAP/Machine. Everything is a trade off. There are so many swimming clubs in the DMV that you have to do your due diligence to figure out what works best for your family and your swimmer. For some people the price point is king, for some it’s proximity to home, for some it’s access to high level training. If I had a multi sport athlete for whom swim was not their top sport, I probably wouldn’t go with one of the pricier clubs and would pay closer attention to things like practice requirement because I would know that my kid wouldn’t be able to make that type of commitment.

Yes, but what I’m saying is that we chose a practice group that only requires 2 days a week, and we pay much more per practice than parents that have kids in higher level practice groups with 6 practices per week. Even the 3 day a week group costs the same as the 6x per week groups.

That is something I didn’t realize when we signed up. If I had seen that, it would have been a red flag—but I just wasn’t looking at the cost this way. Now I am and I realize that it doesn’t make sense to pay the price we are paying for what we are getting. Consider this my PSA to the DCUM community I guess. Next year we will make a different decision.

This is true of many sports - sometimes you pay more for less practice time. Sometimes you pay more for lower quality instruction. Sometimes both. Club soccer C team is a prime example. Consider it a fixed cost plus a rate instead of just a rate. That is how the business is run anyway.

I’m involved in another sport and more instruction time equals more money on top of the base fee. Basic stuff. My swim club seems like an outlier, not the norm. I wonder why that is? I supposed the kids involved in the upper practice groups are getting a really good deal compared to other clubs and that’s how my club keeps them from bailing…. Doesn’t mean I have to like it, or accept it. Definitely moving on when we can.

So, let me see if I have this right - you have a kid in the 2x/week group and there is also a 3x/week group and a 6x/week group. Per practice, the 6x/week pay the least and you pay the most, is that right? But you pay the least in terms of total amount for the season?

If so, I don’t think other swim clubs do it differently. You are paying for the fixed cost like everyone else, but there are economies of scale for the ones who go more often, not to mention the guarantee of a bigger lump sum fee per swimmer. It’s like when hotels charge less per night for a 5 day stay than for a one night stay. Whether your kid is there twice a week or six times a week, the club still has to pay the accountant, pay for marketing, pay for insurance coverage - those are the fixed costs that everyone has to pay.

No. The 3x week swimmers pay the same total as the 6x per week swimmers. The 2x per week swimmers pay less total. On a per session basis the 3x per week swimmers actually pay the most ~ 50 per session. Anyway. This isn’t typical at other clubs. The 6x per week group usually costs quite a bit more annually. My club is strange I guess.

So our club is priced similarly but not a pyramid scheme. The lower groups have less kids per lane and more coaches per lane. The reason is that they focus heavily on technique and less on yardage. I think most clubs are designed this way. Once a kid is moved up to the 6x a week groups the kid is considered to have good technique and be ready for heavy yardage (puberty is also a factor beyond skill set at our club, young kids should not swim heavy yards).

The more advanced groups have a lot more swimmers per lane and sometimes one coach will be on deck for the whole group. They are not getting as much technique work at that level.

This is why I caution parents not to push for their kids to get in the top groups. It is better to get that technique work for as long as possible. If they don't have the technique yet, the heavy yardage will reinforce bad habits.

But that also explain pricing.

This sounds reasonable. Our experience with our club is that the lanes are quite crowded, and kids got no stroke correction in the less frequent practice groups. But the club has a few locations and maybe some of them are less crowded. Worth looking into.

What is crowded to you?

When they talk about technique and stroke correction with club it means drill sets. It is not like they go "Bobby, you need to straighten your arms" -- it is more of sets that work on that as a whole. A lot of catch up exercises and certain drills that help with strokes. The lower groups do a lot more drills and less yardage to teach their bodies the correct form.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Think of swimming cost like you do Costco vs Safeway. If you only want to buy the bare minimum the price per unit is going to be drastically higher than if you were to buy in bulk!

This is what I have a problem with. We have a talented swimmer who can’t make 5 practices a week because they are heavily involved in another sport. The kids that do swim five days a week get much more attention at meets and in practice, even though they aren’t any faster or paying any more. How does this make any sense? Seems like a pyramid scheme.

I don't think you really know what that means.

I know exactly what it means. And it’s not dissimilar.

The “elite” swimmers get a huge discount (financial benefit) at the expense of the people who don’t buy into the cult and promote the insanity of one-sport specialization at a young age. Seems like a pyramid to me. Recruit a bunch of tubes to subsidize the people that use all of the resources.

You can have your kid join one of the clubs that doesn’t offer as many practices for age group swimmers, or has multiple training group options for age groupers based on the level of commitment you want to make to swimming. But I’m guessing you probably also want to benefit from the name brand of the club.

No, I really don’t care about the “brand”. What benefit does that give? I’m just stuck with what we have for the time being because it’s close to our house and we can’t get out money back for the year. I would gladly leave at this point.

Please, there are plenty of people in this area who just want to be able to say their kid is with RMSC/NCAP/Machine. Everything is a trade off. There are so many swimming clubs in the DMV that you have to do your due diligence to figure out what works best for your family and your swimmer. For some people the price point is king, for some it’s proximity to home, for some it’s access to high level training. If I had a multi sport athlete for whom swim was not their top sport, I probably wouldn’t go with one of the pricier clubs and would pay closer attention to things like practice requirement because I would know that my kid wouldn’t be able to make that type of commitment.

Yes, but what I’m saying is that we chose a practice group that only requires 2 days a week, and we pay much more per practice than parents that have kids in higher level practice groups with 6 practices per week. Even the 3 day a week group costs the same as the 6x per week groups.

That is something I didn’t realize when we signed up. If I had seen that, it would have been a red flag—but I just wasn’t looking at the cost this way. Now I am and I realize that it doesn’t make sense to pay the price we are paying for what we are getting. Consider this my PSA to the DCUM community I guess. Next year we will make a different decision.

This is true of many sports - sometimes you pay more for less practice time. Sometimes you pay more for lower quality instruction. Sometimes both. Club soccer C team is a prime example. Consider it a fixed cost plus a rate instead of just a rate. That is how the business is run anyway.

I’m involved in another sport and more instruction time equals more money on top of the base fee. Basic stuff. My swim club seems like an outlier, not the norm. I wonder why that is? I supposed the kids involved in the upper practice groups are getting a really good deal compared to other clubs and that’s how my club keeps them from bailing…. Doesn’t mean I have to like it, or accept it. Definitely moving on when we can.

So, let me see if I have this right - you have a kid in the 2x/week group and there is also a 3x/week group and a 6x/week group. Per practice, the 6x/week pay the least and you pay the most, is that right? But you pay the least in terms of total amount for the season?

If so, I don’t think other swim clubs do it differently. You are paying for the fixed cost like everyone else, but there are economies of scale for the ones who go more often, not to mention the guarantee of a bigger lump sum fee per swimmer. It’s like when hotels charge less per night for a 5 day stay than for a one night stay. Whether your kid is there twice a week or six times a week, the club still has to pay the accountant, pay for marketing, pay for insurance coverage - those are the fixed costs that everyone has to pay.

No. The 3x week swimmers pay the same total as the 6x per week swimmers. The 2x per week swimmers pay less total. On a per session basis the 3x per week swimmers actually pay the most ~ 50 per session. Anyway. This isn’t typical at other clubs. The 6x per week group usually costs quite a bit more annually. My club is strange I guess.

So our club is priced similarly but not a pyramid scheme. The lower groups have less kids per lane and more coaches per lane. The reason is that they focus heavily on technique and less on yardage. I think most clubs are designed this way. Once a kid is moved up to the 6x a week groups the kid is considered to have good technique and be ready for heavy yardage (puberty is also a factor beyond skill set at our club, young kids should not swim heavy yards).

The more advanced groups have a lot more swimmers per lane and sometimes one coach will be on deck for the whole group. They are not getting as much technique work at that level.

This is why I caution parents not to push for their kids to get in the top groups. It is better to get that technique work for as long as possible. If they don't have the technique yet, the heavy yardage will reinforce bad habits.

But that also explain pricing.

This sounds reasonable. Our experience with our club is that the lanes are quite crowded, and kids got no stroke correction in the less frequent practice groups. But the club has a few locations and maybe some of them are less crowded. Worth looking into.

What is crowded to you?

When they talk about technique and stroke correction with club it means drill sets. It is not like they go "Bobby, you need to straighten your arms" -- it is more of sets that work on that as a whole. A lot of catch up exercises and certain drills that help with strokes. The lower groups do a lot more drills and less yardage to teach their bodies the correct form.

Crowded is 8 kids per lane with no common lane etiquette. Kids routinely passing eachother, then slowing down, jumping out of the water mid set and jumping back in randomly. Hot mess

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Think of swimming cost like you do Costco vs Safeway. If you only want to buy the bare minimum the price per unit is going to be drastically higher than if you were to buy in bulk!

This is what I have a problem with. We have a talented swimmer who can’t make 5 practices a week because they are heavily involved in another sport. The kids that do swim five days a week get much more attention at meets and in practice, even though they aren’t any faster or paying any more. How does this make any sense? Seems like a pyramid scheme.

I don't think you really know what that means.

I know exactly what it means. And it’s not dissimilar.

The “elite” swimmers get a huge discount (financial benefit) at the expense of the people who don’t buy into the cult and promote the insanity of one-sport specialization at a young age. Seems like a pyramid to me. Recruit a bunch of tubes to subsidize the people that use all of the resources.

You can have your kid join one of the clubs that doesn’t offer as many practices for age group swimmers, or has multiple training group options for age groupers based on the level of commitment you want to make to swimming. But I’m guessing you probably also want to benefit from the name brand of the club.

No, I really don’t care about the “brand”. What benefit does that give? I’m just stuck with what we have for the time being because it’s close to our house and we can’t get out money back for the year. I would gladly leave at this point.

Please, there are plenty of people in this area who just want to be able to say their kid is with RMSC/NCAP/Machine. Everything is a trade off. There are so many swimming clubs in the DMV that you have to do your due diligence to figure out what works best for your family and your swimmer. For some people the price point is king, for some it’s proximity to home, for some it’s access to high level training. If I had a multi sport athlete for whom swim was not their top sport, I probably wouldn’t go with one of the pricier clubs and would pay closer attention to things like practice requirement because I would know that my kid wouldn’t be able to make that type of commitment.

Yes, but what I’m saying is that we chose a practice group that only requires 2 days a week, and we pay much more per practice than parents that have kids in higher level practice groups with 6 practices per week. Even the 3 day a week group costs the same as the 6x per week groups.

That is something I didn’t realize when we signed up. If I had seen that, it would have been a red flag—but I just wasn’t looking at the cost this way. Now I am and I realize that it doesn’t make sense to pay the price we are paying for what we are getting. Consider this my PSA to the DCUM community I guess. Next year we will make a different decision.

This is true of many sports - sometimes you pay more for less practice time. Sometimes you pay more for lower quality instruction. Sometimes both. Club soccer C team is a prime example. Consider it a fixed cost plus a rate instead of just a rate. That is how the business is run anyway.

I’m involved in another sport and more instruction time equals more money on top of the base fee. Basic stuff. My swim club seems like an outlier, not the norm. I wonder why that is? I supposed the kids involved in the upper practice groups are getting a really good deal compared to other clubs and that’s how my club keeps them from bailing…. Doesn’t mean I have to like it, or accept it. Definitely moving on when we can.

So, let me see if I have this right - you have a kid in the 2x/week group and there is also a 3x/week group and a 6x/week group. Per practice, the 6x/week pay the least and you pay the most, is that right? But you pay the least in terms of total amount for the season?

If so, I don’t think other swim clubs do it differently. You are paying for the fixed cost like everyone else, but there are economies of scale for the ones who go more often, not to mention the guarantee of a bigger lump sum fee per swimmer. It’s like when hotels charge less per night for a 5 day stay than for a one night stay. Whether your kid is there twice a week or six times a week, the club still has to pay the accountant, pay for marketing, pay for insurance coverage - those are the fixed costs that everyone has to pay.

No. The 3x week swimmers pay the same total as the 6x per week swimmers. The 2x per week swimmers pay less total. On a per session basis the 3x per week swimmers actually pay the most ~ 50 per session. Anyway. This isn’t typical at other clubs. The 6x per week group usually costs quite a bit more annually. My club is strange I guess.

So our club is priced similarly but not a pyramid scheme. The lower groups have less kids per lane and more coaches per lane. The reason is that they focus heavily on technique and less on yardage. I think most clubs are designed this way. Once a kid is moved up to the 6x a week groups the kid is considered to have good technique and be ready for heavy yardage (puberty is also a factor beyond skill set at our club, young kids should not swim heavy yards).

The more advanced groups have a lot more swimmers per lane and sometimes one coach will be on deck for the whole group. They are not getting as much technique work at that level.

This is why I caution parents not to push for their kids to get in the top groups. It is better to get that technique work for as long as possible. If they don't have the technique yet, the heavy yardage will reinforce bad habits.

But that also explain pricing.

This sounds reasonable. Our experience with our club is that the lanes are quite crowded, and kids got no stroke correction in the less frequent practice groups. But the club has a few locations and maybe some of them are less crowded. Worth looking into.

What is crowded to you?

When they talk about technique and stroke correction with club it means drill sets. It is not like they go "Bobby, you need to straighten your arms" -- it is more of sets that work on that as a whole. A lot of catch up exercises and certain drills that help with strokes. The lower groups do a lot more drills and less yardage to teach their bodies the correct form.

Crowded is 8 kids per lane with no common lane etiquette. Kids routinely passing eachother, then slowing down, jumping out of the water mid set and jumping back in randomly. Hot mess

That would piss me off. What club is like that? I have seen it on occasion but coaches should be moving kids around.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Think of swimming cost like you do Costco vs Safeway. If you only want to buy the bare minimum the price per unit is going to be drastically higher than if you were to buy in bulk!

This is what I have a problem with. We have a talented swimmer who can’t make 5 practices a week because they are heavily involved in another sport. The kids that do swim five days a week get much more attention at meets and in practice, even though they aren’t any faster or paying any more. How does this make any sense? Seems like a pyramid scheme.

I don't think you really know what that means.

I know exactly what it means. And it’s not dissimilar.

The “elite” swimmers get a huge discount (financial benefit) at the expense of the people who don’t buy into the cult and promote the insanity of one-sport specialization at a young age. Seems like a pyramid to me. Recruit a bunch of tubes to subsidize the people that use all of the resources.

You can have your kid join one of the clubs that doesn’t offer as many practices for age group swimmers, or has multiple training group options for age groupers based on the level of commitment you want to make to swimming. But I’m guessing you probably also want to benefit from the name brand of the club.

No, I really don’t care about the “brand”. What benefit does that give? I’m just stuck with what we have for the time being because it’s close to our house and we can’t get out money back for the year. I would gladly leave at this point.

Please, there are plenty of people in this area who just want to be able to say their kid is with RMSC/NCAP/Machine. Everything is a trade off. There are so many swimming clubs in the DMV that you have to do your due diligence to figure out what works best for your family and your swimmer. For some people the price point is king, for some it’s proximity to home, for some it’s access to high level training. If I had a multi sport athlete for whom swim was not their top sport, I probably wouldn’t go with one of the pricier clubs and would pay closer attention to things like practice requirement because I would know that my kid wouldn’t be able to make that type of commitment.

Yes, but what I’m saying is that we chose a practice group that only requires 2 days a week, and we pay much more per practice than parents that have kids in higher level practice groups with 6 practices per week. Even the 3 day a week group costs the same as the 6x per week groups.

That is something I didn’t realize when we signed up. If I had seen that, it would have been a red flag—but I just wasn’t looking at the cost this way. Now I am and I realize that it doesn’t make sense to pay the price we are paying for what we are getting. Consider this my PSA to the DCUM community I guess. Next year we will make a different decision.

This is true of many sports - sometimes you pay more for less practice time. Sometimes you pay more for lower quality instruction. Sometimes both. Club soccer C team is a prime example. Consider it a fixed cost plus a rate instead of just a rate. That is how the business is run anyway.

I’m involved in another sport and more instruction time equals more money on top of the base fee. Basic stuff. My swim club seems like an outlier, not the norm. I wonder why that is? I supposed the kids involved in the upper practice groups are getting a really good deal compared to other clubs and that’s how my club keeps them from bailing…. Doesn’t mean I have to like it, or accept it. Definitely moving on when we can.

So, let me see if I have this right - you have a kid in the 2x/week group and there is also a 3x/week group and a 6x/week group. Per practice, the 6x/week pay the least and you pay the most, is that right? But you pay the least in terms of total amount for the season?

If so, I don’t think other swim clubs do it differently. You are paying for the fixed cost like everyone else, but there are economies of scale for the ones who go more often, not to mention the guarantee of a bigger lump sum fee per swimmer. It’s like when hotels charge less per night for a 5 day stay than for a one night stay. Whether your kid is there twice a week or six times a week, the club still has to pay the accountant, pay for marketing, pay for insurance coverage - those are the fixed costs that everyone has to pay.

No. The 3x week swimmers pay the same total as the 6x per week swimmers. The 2x per week swimmers pay less total. On a per session basis the 3x per week swimmers actually pay the most ~ 50 per session. Anyway. This isn’t typical at other clubs. The 6x per week group usually costs quite a bit more annually. My club is strange I guess.

So our club is priced similarly but not a pyramid scheme. The lower groups have less kids per lane and more coaches per lane. The reason is that they focus heavily on technique and less on yardage. I think most clubs are designed this way. Once a kid is moved up to the 6x a week groups the kid is considered to have good technique and be ready for heavy yardage (puberty is also a factor beyond skill set at our club, young kids should not swim heavy yards).

The more advanced groups have a lot more swimmers per lane and sometimes one coach will be on deck for the whole group. They are not getting as much technique work at that level.

This is why I caution parents not to push for their kids to get in the top groups. It is better to get that technique work for as long as possible. If they don't have the technique yet, the heavy yardage will reinforce bad habits.

But that also explain pricing.

This sounds reasonable. Our experience with our club is that the lanes are quite crowded, and kids got no stroke correction in the less frequent practice groups. But the club has a few locations and maybe some of them are less crowded. Worth looking into.

What is crowded to you?

When they talk about technique and stroke correction with club it means drill sets. It is not like they go "Bobby, you need to straighten your arms" -- it is more of sets that work on that as a whole. A lot of catch up exercises and certain drills that help with strokes. The lower groups do a lot more drills and less yardage to teach their bodies the correct form.

Crowded is 8 kids per lane with no common lane etiquette. Kids routinely passing eachother, then slowing down, jumping out of the water mid set and jumping back in randomly. Hot mess

8 kids per lane is way too many, and if you are going to have that many kids per lane then the coach needs to be on top of and enforce lane etiquette. My kid is in the MS aged group so the lane etiquette is way better than what it was in the ES aged group, but it feels crowded to them when everyone shows up to practice and there are 5 kids per lane.