Dollars and cents

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Think of swimming cost like you do Costco vs Safeway. If you only want to buy the bare minimum the price per unit is going to be drastically higher than if you were to buy in bulk!

This is what I have a problem with. We have a talented swimmer who can’t make 5 practices a week because they are heavily involved in another sport. The kids that do swim five days a week get much more attention at meets and in practice, even though they aren’t any faster or paying any more. How does this make any sense? Seems like a pyramid scheme.

Our club team is quite open, including in parent meetings, about practice frequency being one metric for demonstrated commitment, and commitment being one qualification for advancement. Obviously kids who don't have the tines won't move up groups, but considering the extent to which swimming is an individual sport, a kid who likes another sport equally or better may eventually have to choose - at least that's how the teams feel. The limited coaches' attention goes to the people who are putting in the development time, not the kids who can just hop in and swim fast for their age.

+1, it is the same at our club. Once a swimmer gets to the groups for middle school aged kids and older the metrics for advancement to the various groups are clearly spelled out. For the higher level training groups there are specific time standards that need to be met as well as a practice attendance requirement. The reality also is that the time standards that need to be met for placement in the high level high school aged groups generally can’t be met by someone in the water only 3 days a week. Yes, there may be 1 or 2 outliers, but at the higher levels they aren’t looking at 50 free time standards, they are looking at the 2 and 4IM and mid-distance freestyle, and a kid only in the water 3 days a week is generally not going to be able to meet the standards in those events. The clear metrics is one of the things I really appreciate about swimming.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Think of swimming cost like you do Costco vs Safeway. If you only want to buy the bare minimum the price per unit is going to be drastically higher than if you were to buy in bulk!

This is what I have a problem with. We have a talented swimmer who can’t make 5 practices a week because they are heavily involved in another sport. The kids that do swim five days a week get much more attention at meets and in practice, even though they aren’t any faster or paying any more. How does this make any sense? Seems like a pyramid scheme.

It makes sense to me. Your kid is not as committed to swim as those other kids. At a certain level coaches are going to put their energy into the kid that is there and makes it a priority. That is any sport.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Think of swimming cost like you do Costco vs Safeway. If you only want to buy the bare minimum the price per unit is going to be drastically higher than if you were to buy in bulk!

This is what I have a problem with. We have a talented swimmer who can’t make 5 practices a week because they are heavily involved in another sport. The kids that do swim five days a week get much more attention at meets and in practice, even though they aren’t any faster or paying any more. How does this make any sense? Seems like a pyramid scheme.

I don't think you really know what that means.

I know exactly what it means. And it’s not dissimilar.

The “elite” swimmers get a huge discount (financial benefit) at the expense of the people who don’t buy into the cult and promote the insanity of one-sport specialization at a young age. Seems like a pyramid to me. Recruit a bunch of tubes to subsidize the people that use all of the resources.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Think of swimming cost like you do Costco vs Safeway. If you only want to buy the bare minimum the price per unit is going to be drastically higher than if you were to buy in bulk!

This is what I have a problem with. We have a talented swimmer who can’t make 5 practices a week because they are heavily involved in another sport. The kids that do swim five days a week get much more attention at meets and in practice, even though they aren’t any faster or paying any more. How does this make any sense? Seems like a pyramid scheme.

Our club team is quite open, including in parent meetings, about practice frequency being one metric for demonstrated commitment, and commitment being one qualification for advancement. Obviously kids who don't have the tines won't move up groups, but considering the extent to which swimming is an individual sport, a kid who likes another sport equally or better may eventually have to choose - at least that's how the teams feel. The limited coaches' attention goes to the people who are putting in the development time, not the kids who can just hop in and swim fast for their age.

In our case our kid has the times and is putting in many hours of athletic training outside of club swim. They are choosing not to put in more hours in the pool because it may actually hurt their ability to be successful at swimming. Coaches recognize that, and still give kid what we are paying for. Not right to charge people and for something they aren’t getting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Think of swimming cost like you do Costco vs Safeway. If you only want to buy the bare minimum the price per unit is going to be drastically higher than if you were to buy in bulk!

This is what I have a problem with. We have a talented swimmer who can’t make 5 practices a week because they are heavily involved in another sport. The kids that do swim five days a week get much more attention at meets and in practice, even though they aren’t any faster or paying any more. How does this make any sense? Seems like a pyramid scheme.

I don't think you really know what that means.

I know exactly what it means. And it’s not dissimilar.

The “elite” swimmers get a huge discount (financial benefit) at the expense of the people who don’t buy into the cult and promote the insanity of one-sport specialization at a young age. Seems like a pyramid to me. Recruit a bunch of tubes to subsidize the people that use all of the resources.

You can have your kid join one of the clubs that doesn’t offer as many practices for age group swimmers, or has multiple training group options for age groupers based on the level of commitment you want to make to swimming. But I’m guessing you probably also want to benefit from the name brand of the club.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Think of swimming cost like you do Costco vs Safeway. If you only want to buy the bare minimum the price per unit is going to be drastically higher than if you were to buy in bulk!

This is what I have a problem with. We have a talented swimmer who can’t make 5 practices a week because they are heavily involved in another sport. The kids that do swim five days a week get much more attention at meets and in practice, even though they aren’t any faster or paying any more. How does this make any sense? Seems like a pyramid scheme.

I don't think you really know what that means.

I know exactly what it means. And it’s not dissimilar.

The “elite” swimmers get a huge discount (financial benefit) at the expense of the people who don’t buy into the cult and promote the insanity of one-sport specialization at a young age. Seems like a pyramid to me. Recruit a bunch of tubes to subsidize the people that use all of the resources.

You can have your kid join one of the clubs that doesn’t offer as many practices for age group swimmers, or has multiple training group options for age groupers based on the level of commitment you want to make to swimming. But I’m guessing you probably also want to benefit from the name brand of the club.

No, I really don’t care about the “brand”. What benefit does that give? I’m just stuck with what we have for the time being because it’s close to our house and we can’t get out money back for the year. I would gladly leave at this point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Think of swimming cost like you do Costco vs Safeway. If you only want to buy the bare minimum the price per unit is going to be drastically higher than if you were to buy in bulk!

This is what I have a problem with. We have a talented swimmer who can’t make 5 practices a week because they are heavily involved in another sport. The kids that do swim five days a week get much more attention at meets and in practice, even though they aren’t any faster or paying any more. How does this make any sense? Seems like a pyramid scheme.

I don't think you really know what that means.

I know exactly what it means. And it’s not dissimilar.

The “elite” swimmers get a huge discount (financial benefit) at the expense of the people who don’t buy into the cult and promote the insanity of one-sport specialization at a young age. Seems like a pyramid to me. Recruit a bunch of tubes to subsidize the people that use all of the resources.

You can have your kid join one of the clubs that doesn’t offer as many practices for age group swimmers, or has multiple training group options for age groupers based on the level of commitment you want to make to swimming. But I’m guessing you probably also want to benefit from the name brand of the club.

Our club offers multiple training groups, but the price point is the same if you do 3 practices or 6. Seems like we are subsidizing the brand tbh. Brand isn’t doing anything for us….

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let’s cut to the chase: how much do you spend on club swimming on a per practice basis, annually?

I’m interested because I feel like we getting ripped off, especially since the coaches aren’t exactly coaching the kids at meets and practice. Kids show up and do the sets and get very little stroke feedback. Swim at meets but gets zero coaching there.

I’ve worked it out and we are paying around 40 dollars per practice.

And go!

This really depends on where you live and how old your kids are. But mostly geography. In ny, we paid $42 a practice for my then 10 year old. Plus an average of $20 per practice in transportation costs because some of the pools were not accessible by train. The cost was due to limited pool space and time in a big city and wages for employees who were commuting in from the outer boroughs or nj.

We are now in a smaller town out west, and now we have two kids - 12 and 15 in swim. The older one is $7 per practice and the younger one is $8 per practice (older one has higher dues, but goes more often).

The economics are not quite as good but still great for club soccer - we are paying about 30% of dues here vs ny. And for private school, we are sending two kids for less than the tuition of one at our old school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Think of swimming cost like you do Costco vs Safeway. If you only want to buy the bare minimum the price per unit is going to be drastically higher than if you were to buy in bulk!

This is what I have a problem with. We have a talented swimmer who can’t make 5 practices a week because they are heavily involved in another sport. The kids that do swim five days a week get much more attention at meets and in practice, even though they aren’t any faster or paying any more. How does this make any sense? Seems like a pyramid scheme.

I don't think you really know what that means.

I know exactly what it means. And it’s not dissimilar.

The “elite” swimmers get a huge discount (financial benefit) at the expense of the people who don’t buy into the cult and promote the insanity of one-sport specialization at a young age. Seems like a pyramid to me. Recruit a bunch of tubes to subsidize the people that use all of the resources.

You can have your kid join one of the clubs that doesn’t offer as many practices for age group swimmers, or has multiple training group options for age groupers based on the level of commitment you want to make to swimming. But I’m guessing you probably also want to benefit from the name brand of the club.

Our club offers multiple training groups, but the price point is the same if you do 3 practices or 6. Seems like we are subsidizing the brand tbh. Brand isn’t doing anything for us….

Multiple training groups for the same aged kids? I’m going to pull a random NCAP example because their rates are available on their website. Below is the link to Claude Moore’s pricing.

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/64653424960a494a35f8515b/t/64e4f9e121ba3d16b5e5fd19/1692727777266/Claude+Moore+REG+Dues+2023-24-PROOF+2.pdf

If you have an 11-14 year old swimmer there are 3 separate training groups they can join based on ability and commitment. They offer from as little as 3 practices per week to up to 6 practices a week, and these groups are all at different price points.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Think of swimming cost like you do Costco vs Safeway. If you only want to buy the bare minimum the price per unit is going to be drastically higher than if you were to buy in bulk!

This is what I have a problem with. We have a talented swimmer who can’t make 5 practices a week because they are heavily involved in another sport. The kids that do swim five days a week get much more attention at meets and in practice, even though they aren’t any faster or paying any more. How does this make any sense? Seems like a pyramid scheme.

I don't think you really know what that means.

I know exactly what it means. And it’s not dissimilar.

The “elite” swimmers get a huge discount (financial benefit) at the expense of the people who don’t buy into the cult and promote the insanity of one-sport specialization at a young age. Seems like a pyramid to me. Recruit a bunch of tubes to subsidize the people that use all of the resources.

You can have your kid join one of the clubs that doesn’t offer as many practices for age group swimmers, or has multiple training group options for age groupers based on the level of commitment you want to make to swimming. But I’m guessing you probably also want to benefit from the name brand of the club.

Our club offers multiple training groups, but the price point is the same if you do 3 practices or 6. Seems like we are subsidizing the brand tbh. Brand isn’t doing anything for us….

Multiple training groups for the same aged kids? I’m going to pull a random NCAP example because their rates are available on their website. Below is the link to Claude Moore’s pricing.

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/64653424960a494a35f8515b/t/64e4f9e121ba3d16b5e5fd19/1692727777266/Claude+Moore+REG+Dues+2023-24-PROOF+2.pdf

If you have an 11-14 year old swimmer there are 3 separate training groups they can join based on ability and commitment. They offer from as little as 3 practices per week to up to 6 practices a week, and these groups are all at different price points.

Cool. Not our club but I would be happy with that. Too bad it’s out of our area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Think of swimming cost like you do Costco vs Safeway. If you only want to buy the bare minimum the price per unit is going to be drastically higher than if you were to buy in bulk!

This is what I have a problem with. We have a talented swimmer who can’t make 5 practices a week because they are heavily involved in another sport. The kids that do swim five days a week get much more attention at meets and in practice, even though they aren’t any faster or paying any more. How does this make any sense? Seems like a pyramid scheme.

I don't think you really know what that means.

I know exactly what it means. And it’s not dissimilar.

The “elite” swimmers get a huge discount (financial benefit) at the expense of the people who don’t buy into the cult and promote the insanity of one-sport specialization at a young age. Seems like a pyramid to me. Recruit a bunch of tubes to subsidize the people that use all of the resources.

You can have your kid join one of the clubs that doesn’t offer as many practices for age group swimmers, or has multiple training group options for age groupers based on the level of commitment you want to make to swimming. But I’m guessing you probably also want to benefit from the name brand of the club.

No, I really don’t care about the “brand”. What benefit does that give? I’m just stuck with what we have for the time being because it’s close to our house and we can’t get out money back for the year. I would gladly leave at this point.

Please, there are plenty of people in this area who just want to be able to say their kid is with RMSC/NCAP/Machine. Everything is a trade off. There are so many swimming clubs in the DMV that you have to do your due diligence to figure out what works best for your family and your swimmer. For some people the price point is king, for some it’s proximity to home, for some it’s access to high level training. If I had a multi sport athlete for whom swim was not their top sport, I probably wouldn’t go with one of the pricier clubs and would pay closer attention to things like practice requirement because I would know that my kid wouldn’t be able to make that type of commitment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Think of swimming cost like you do Costco vs Safeway. If you only want to buy the bare minimum the price per unit is going to be drastically higher than if you were to buy in bulk!

This is what I have a problem with. We have a talented swimmer who can’t make 5 practices a week because they are heavily involved in another sport. The kids that do swim five days a week get much more attention at meets and in practice, even though they aren’t any faster or paying any more. How does this make any sense? Seems like a pyramid scheme.

I don't think you really know what that means.

I know exactly what it means. And it’s not dissimilar.

The “elite” swimmers get a huge discount (financial benefit) at the expense of the people who don’t buy into the cult and promote the insanity of one-sport specialization at a young age. Seems like a pyramid to me. Recruit a bunch of tubes to subsidize the people that use all of the resources.

You can have your kid join one of the clubs that doesn’t offer as many practices for age group swimmers, or has multiple training group options for age groupers based on the level of commitment you want to make to swimming. But I’m guessing you probably also want to benefit from the name brand of the club.

No, I really don’t care about the “brand”. What benefit does that give? I’m just stuck with what we have for the time being because it’s close to our house and we can’t get out money back for the year. I would gladly leave at this point.

Please, there are plenty of people in this area who just want to be able to say their kid is with RMSC/NCAP/Machine. Everything is a trade off. There are so many swimming clubs in the DMV that you have to do your due diligence to figure out what works best for your family and your swimmer. For some people the price point is king, for some it’s proximity to home, for some it’s access to high level training. If I had a multi sport athlete for whom swim was not their top sport, I probably wouldn’t go with one of the pricier clubs and would pay closer attention to things like practice requirement because I would know that my kid wouldn’t be able to make that type of commitment.

Yes, but what I’m saying is that we chose a practice group that only requires 2 days a week, and we pay much more per practice than parents that have kids in higher level practice groups with 6 practices per week. Even the 3 day a week group costs the same as the 6x per week groups.

That is something I didn’t realize when we signed up. If I had seen that, it would have been a red flag—but I just wasn’t looking at the cost this way. Now I am and I realize that it doesn’t make sense to pay the price we are paying for what we are getting. Consider this my PSA to the DCUM community I guess. Next year we will make a different decision.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Think of swimming cost like you do Costco vs Safeway. If you only want to buy the bare minimum the price per unit is going to be drastically higher than if you were to buy in bulk!

This is what I have a problem with. We have a talented swimmer who can’t make 5 practices a week because they are heavily involved in another sport. The kids that do swim five days a week get much more attention at meets and in practice, even though they aren’t any faster or paying any more. How does this make any sense? Seems like a pyramid scheme.

I don't think you really know what that means.

I know exactly what it means. And it’s not dissimilar.

The “elite” swimmers get a huge discount (financial benefit) at the expense of the people who don’t buy into the cult and promote the insanity of one-sport specialization at a young age. Seems like a pyramid to me. Recruit a bunch of tubes to subsidize the people that use all of the resources.

You can have your kid join one of the clubs that doesn’t offer as many practices for age group swimmers, or has multiple training group options for age groupers based on the level of commitment you want to make to swimming. But I’m guessing you probably also want to benefit from the name brand of the club.

No, I really don’t care about the “brand”. What benefit does that give? I’m just stuck with what we have for the time being because it’s close to our house and we can’t get out money back for the year. I would gladly leave at this point.

Please, there are plenty of people in this area who just want to be able to say their kid is with RMSC/NCAP/Machine. Everything is a trade off. There are so many swimming clubs in the DMV that you have to do your due diligence to figure out what works best for your family and your swimmer. For some people the price point is king, for some it’s proximity to home, for some it’s access to high level training. If I had a multi sport athlete for whom swim was not their top sport, I probably wouldn’t go with one of the pricier clubs and would pay closer attention to things like practice requirement because I would know that my kid wouldn’t be able to make that type of commitment.

Yes, but what I’m saying is that we chose a practice group that only requires 2 days a week, and we pay much more per practice than parents that have kids in higher level practice groups with 6 practices per week. Even the 3 day a week group costs the same as the 6x per week groups.

That is something I didn’t realize when we signed up. If I had seen that, it would have been a red flag—but I just wasn’t looking at the cost this way. Now I am and I realize that it doesn’t make sense to pay the price we are paying for what we are getting. Consider this my PSA to the DCUM community I guess. Next year we will make a different decision.

This is true of many sports - sometimes you pay more for less practice time. Sometimes you pay more for lower quality instruction. Sometimes both. Club soccer C team is a prime example. Consider it a fixed cost plus a rate instead of just a rate. That is how the business is run anyway.

[Anonymous]

About $20 a practice. Doesn’t include meet fees.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Think of swimming cost like you do Costco vs Safeway. If you only want to buy the bare minimum the price per unit is going to be drastically higher than if you were to buy in bulk!

This is what I have a problem with. We have a talented swimmer who can’t make 5 practices a week because they are heavily involved in another sport. The kids that do swim five days a week get much more attention at meets and in practice, even though they aren’t any faster or paying any more. How does this make any sense? Seems like a pyramid scheme.

I don't think you really know what that means.

I know exactly what it means. And it’s not dissimilar.

The “elite” swimmers get a huge discount (financial benefit) at the expense of the people who don’t buy into the cult and promote the insanity of one-sport specialization at a young age. Seems like a pyramid to me. Recruit a bunch of tubes to subsidize the people that use all of the resources.

You can have your kid join one of the clubs that doesn’t offer as many practices for age group swimmers, or has multiple training group options for age groupers based on the level of commitment you want to make to swimming. But I’m guessing you probably also want to benefit from the name brand of the club.

No, I really don’t care about the “brand”. What benefit does that give? I’m just stuck with what we have for the time being because it’s close to our house and we can’t get out money back for the year. I would gladly leave at this point.

Please, there are plenty of people in this area who just want to be able to say their kid is with RMSC/NCAP/Machine. Everything is a trade off. There are so many swimming clubs in the DMV that you have to do your due diligence to figure out what works best for your family and your swimmer. For some people the price point is king, for some it’s proximity to home, for some it’s access to high level training. If I had a multi sport athlete for whom swim was not their top sport, I probably wouldn’t go with one of the pricier clubs and would pay closer attention to things like practice requirement because I would know that my kid wouldn’t be able to make that type of commitment.

Yes, but what I’m saying is that we chose a practice group that only requires 2 days a week, and we pay much more per practice than parents that have kids in higher level practice groups with 6 practices per week. Even the 3 day a week group costs the same as the 6x per week groups.

That is something I didn’t realize when we signed up. If I had seen that, it would have been a red flag—but I just wasn’t looking at the cost this way. Now I am and I realize that it doesn’t make sense to pay the price we are paying for what we are getting. Consider this my PSA to the DCUM community I guess. Next year we will make a different decision.

This is true of many sports - sometimes you pay more for less practice time. Sometimes you pay more for lower quality instruction. Sometimes both. Club soccer C team is a prime example. Consider it a fixed cost plus a rate instead of just a rate. That is how the business is run anyway.

I’m involved in another sport and more instruction time equals more money on top of the base fee. Basic stuff. My swim club seems like an outlier, not the norm. I wonder why that is? I supposed the kids involved in the upper practice groups are getting a really good deal compared to other clubs and that’s how my club keeps them from bailing…. Doesn’t mean I have to like it, or accept it. Definitely moving on when we can.