Uncomfortable truth: non-partiers wind up working for the partiers

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, you want your kid to become Jeffrey Epstein rather than Jeff Bezos or Bill Gates?

While I think OPs post is idiotic, I don't think you're quite getting her point. Jeff Bezos and Bill Gates may be nerdy or whatever term you want to use, but they also know how to schmooze, talk to people, manage people, etc. And I THINK that was OPs point. If you spend all your time with your head in books and have zero social skills, it doesn't matter if you're as smart as Bill Gates. Your inability to interact with others will inhibit you. Of course, you don't need to be a frat bro to get those social skills.

Bill Gates doesn't have social skills. He is a smart greedy bully. He made software that his mom sold to her friend at IBM. Then he and his nerd friend hired a sales guy as their #3 to build the company. Bezos is similar. They didn't get their success by sweet talking, they didn't by finding technical and financial angles.

I would give them more credit than that…but Musk, Zuckerberg, Ellison, etc literally most truly successful people do not comport at all to the OP’s kids.

What’s funny is the OPs kids are quite mediocre…yet she doesn’t seem to understand that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Naive students and parents, usually middle class and below, disdain the Greek system and talk about how they don't want to participate. They claim they're more serious students and aren't into that scene.

What these people don't understand is that the Greek social scene actually trains you to operate in the business world. You learn the importance of socializing, sizing people up at a glance, social drinking, and how to present yourself so that you're accepted and click with the executive class. Most importantly, you learn that you need to be extroverted and to cultivate connections to succeed in your career.

The nose to the grindstone "strivers" don't learn these things. They think the real world is like the classroom, when in fact it's much like a fraternity social. They dress the wrong way, say the wrong things, and clumsily offer opinions that might be true but are socially awkward. So they get pigeonholed as drones. They don't get the promotions, and they don't get the hot spouses.

I've advised my kids to scout out the best Greek orgs, and they've turned out great. They're not brilliant intellectuals, but their superstars socially and interpersonally. They know how to size up a crowd and maximize the benefit to themselves, to capitalize on opportunities to engage with people who can help them. They also know how to avoid people who will damage their reputations, and they don't hold one ounce of guilt for being what some would say is "mean". They know you can't please everyone, so connect with the important people and be the one who others try to please.

Define “turned out great”.

OP here. One is a very successful pharma rep and engaged to a surgeon she met on one of her stops. The other is in a management trainee program at a Fortune 100 company. To reply to another poster, I had been referring to strivers in the classroom, the brown-nose types. But yes they are strivers where it counts, in climbing the latter and engaging people.

Thanks for the LOLs!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, you want your kid to become Jeffrey Epstein rather than Jeff Bezos or Bill Gates?

While I think OPs post is idiotic, I don't think you're quite getting her point. Jeff Bezos and Bill Gates may be nerdy or whatever term you want to use, but they also know how to schmooze, talk to people, manage people, etc. And I THINK that was OPs point. If you spend all your time with your head in books and have zero social skills, it doesn't matter if you're as smart as Bill Gates. Your inability to interact with others will inhibit you. Of course, you don't need to be a frat bro to get those social skills.

Bill Gates doesn't have social skills. He is a smart greedy bully. He made software that his mom sold to her friend at IBM. Then he and his nerd friend hired a sales guy as their #3 to build the company. Bezos is similar. They didn't get their success by sweet talking, they didn't by finding technical and financial angles.

I would give them more credit than that…but Musk, Zuckerberg, Ellison, etc literally most truly successful people do not comport at all to the OP’s kids.

What’s funny is the OPs kids are quite mediocre…yet she doesn’t seem to understand that.

Facts. A Pharma sales rep? Who slept with her customer? And is now engaged to an MD? That’s a f%$cking cliche.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Depends entirely on your filed.

My kid is getting a science PhD.

Thank God she did not choose a field where success hinges on glad-handing and drinking skills. The ability to make fake small talk and butter up those in the Executive Suite.

Oh sweet summer child. Do you truly think success in academia does not require glad-handing, fake small talk, and the ability to butter up your superiors? Do you not know how hiring and promotion works in academic departments? Better get her working on her social skills or she will be one of the many sad PhDs who does not get tenure. In which case... she will end up working in the business world, where she will need to know how to do glad-handling, fake small talk, and buttering up superiors.

You are calling a tenured professor “sweet summer child.”

So somewhere along the way you missed out on those slick social skills you claim to have passed on to your children.

Oh sweet summer child, I don't need to use "slick social skills" on anonymous idiots who say stupid things on the internet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Depends entirely on your filed.

My kid is getting a science PhD.

Thank God she did not choose a field where success hinges on glad-handing and drinking skills. The ability to make fake small talk and butter up those in the Executive Suite.

Oh sweet summer child. Do you truly think success in academia does not require glad-handing, fake small talk, and the ability to butter up your superiors? Do you not know how hiring and promotion works in academic departments? Better get her working on her social skills or she will be one of the many sad PhDs who does not get tenure. In which case... she will end up working in the business world, where she will need to know how to do glad-handling, fake small talk, and buttering up superiors.

By insulting someone’s child, you’re showing your own insecurity and lack if social skills

I'm not insulting her child. I'm insulting the parent who stupidly believes her child won't need "fake" social skills in academia. And now I'm insulting you - your claim that I'm "showing insecurity" is stupid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, you want your kid to become Jeffrey Epstein rather than Jeff Bezos or Bill Gates?

While I think OPs post is idiotic, I don't think you're quite getting her point. Jeff Bezos and Bill Gates may be nerdy or whatever term you want to use, but they also know how to schmooze, talk to people, manage people, etc. And I THINK that was OPs point. If you spend all your time with your head in books and have zero social skills, it doesn't matter if you're as smart as Bill Gates. Your inability to interact with others will inhibit you. Of course, you don't need to be a frat bro to get those social skills.

Bill Gates doesn't have social skills. He is a smart greedy bully. He made software that his mom sold to her friend at IBM. Then he and his nerd friend hired a sales guy as their #3 to build the company. Bezos is similar. They didn't get their success by sweet talking, they didn't by finding technical and financial angles.

I would give them more credit than that…but Musk, Zuckerberg, Ellison, etc literally most truly successful people do not comport at all to the OP’s kids.

What’s funny is the OPs kids are quite mediocre…yet she doesn’t seem to understand that.

Facts. A Pharma sales rep? Who slept with her customer? And is now engaged to an MD? That’s a f%$cking cliche.

That pharma rep may be shilling the drug that my relative developed--who's working for whom?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is covered pretty well by Paul Tough in "The Years that Matter Most: How College Makes or Breaks Us." The short version is that, especially with elite colleges, it is all about the connections you make, and very little is about how well you do with the actual academic work. And the people who don't understand that are confused when they are trying for those plum consulting jobs and the people who hardly did any work at all are getting the interviews. The connections may or may not be Greek, depending on the school.

Sometimes it's lax.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, you want your kid to become Jeffrey Epstein rather than Jeff Bezos or Bill Gates?

While I think OPs post is idiotic, I don't think you're quite getting her point. Jeff Bezos and Bill Gates may be nerdy or whatever term you want to use, but they also know how to schmooze, talk to people, manage people, etc. And I THINK that was OPs point. If you spend all your time with your head in books and have zero social skills, it doesn't matter if you're as smart as Bill Gates. Your inability to interact with others will inhibit you. Of course, you don't need to be a frat bro to get those social skills.

Bill Gates doesn't have social skills. He is a smart greedy bully. He made software that his mom sold to her friend at IBM. Then he and his nerd friend hired a sales guy as their #3 to build the company. Bezos is similar. They didn't get their success by sweet talking, they didn't by finding technical and financial angles.

I would give them more credit than that…but Musk, Zuckerberg, Ellison, etc literally most truly successful people do not comport at all to the OP’s kids.

What’s funny is the OPs kids are quite mediocre…yet she doesn’t seem to understand that.

Facts. A Pharma sales rep? Who slept with her customer? And is now engaged to an MD? That’s a f%$cking cliche.

[Anonymous]

Pharma rep? Where, some place cool like at Purdue Pharma?
I’d rather raise a kid who solves problems rather than contributes to societal havoc but congrats.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Naive students and parents, usually middle class and below, disdain the Greek system and talk about how they don't want to participate. They claim they're more serious students and aren't into that scene.

What these people don't understand is that the Greek social scene actually trains you to operate in the business world. You learn the importance of socializing, sizing people up at a glance, social drinking, and how to present yourself so that you're accepted and click with the executive class. Most importantly, you learn that you need to be extroverted and to cultivate connections to succeed in your career.

The nose to the grindstone "strivers" don't learn these things. They think the real world is like the classroom, when in fact it's much like a fraternity social. They dress the wrong way, say the wrong things, and clumsily offer opinions that might be true but are socially awkward. So they get pigeonholed as drones. They don't get the promotions, and they don't get the hot spouses.

I've advised my kids to scout out the best Greek orgs, and they've turned out great. They're not brilliant intellectuals, but their superstars socially and interpersonally. They know how to size up a crowd and maximize the benefit to themselves, to capitalize on opportunities to engage with people who can help them. They also know how to avoid people who will damage their reputations, and they don't hold one ounce of guilt for being what some would say is "mean". They know you can't please everyone, so connect with the important people and be the one who others try to please.

I have not read all of the comments but I agree with you. A lot of the science phd types I know work for low pay in labs. I know plenty of stem grads working as coders for low pay.

I'll add that Division I athletes with a 4 year degree in any major, both male and female go far in life in their careers. A lot of job doors open for them.

[Anonymous]

Only for sometime. The female partiers end up burned out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Naive students and parents, usually middle class and below, disdain the Greek system and talk about how they don't want to participate. They claim they're more serious students and aren't into that scene.

What these people don't understand is that the Greek social scene actually trains you to operate in the business world. You learn the importance of socializing, sizing people up at a glance, social drinking, and how to present yourself so that you're accepted and click with the executive class. Most importantly, you learn that you need to be extroverted and to cultivate connections to succeed in your career.

The nose to the grindstone "strivers" don't learn these things. They think the real world is like the classroom, when in fact it's much like a fraternity social. They dress the wrong way, say the wrong things, and clumsily offer opinions that might be true but are socially awkward. So they get pigeonholed as drones. They don't get the promotions, and they don't get the hot spouses.

I've advised my kids to scout out the best Greek orgs, and they've turned out great. They're not brilliant intellectuals, but their superstars socially and interpersonally. They know how to size up a crowd and maximize the benefit to themselves, to capitalize on opportunities to engage with people who can help them. They also know how to avoid people who will damage their reputations, and they don't hold one ounce of guilt for being what some would say is "mean". They know you can't please everyone, so connect with the important people and be the one who others try to please.

Define “turned out great”.

OP here. One is a very successful pharma rep and engaged to a surgeon she met on one of her stops. The other is in a management trainee program at a Fortune 100 company. To reply to another poster, I had been referring to strivers in the classroom, the brown-nose types. But yes they are strivers where it counts, in climbing the latter and engaging people.

"brown-nose types"....jeez, grow up a bit.

Yes, dealing with people matters. But so does being really smart....your surgeon future SIL is likely smart (or I'd hope so if he was my surgeon) and I really hope he actually worked hard and learned something in medical school and residency because beyond good bedside manner, I don't care that he can smooze with the best of them, I want him to be knowledgeable, at the cutting edge of research and new practices and highly skilled at what he does. If he had his nose to the grindstone in college all the better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP - you are so dense! I work in healthcare and the scientists and researchers who are tops in thier field and managing others were most definitely not the partiers in college.

Please tell me what field you work in so I can tell my kids to avoid it.

+1 As well as the location/name of the future SIL might be nice to know if he didn't work hard in college or med school...so we can avoid him as well

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Naive students and parents, usually middle class and below, disdain the Greek system and talk about how they don't want to participate. They claim they're more serious students and aren't into that scene.

What these people don't understand is that the Greek social scene actually trains you to operate in the business world. You learn the importance of socializing, sizing people up at a glance, social drinking, and how to present yourself so that you're accepted and click with the executive class. Most importantly, you learn that you need to be extroverted and to cultivate connections to succeed in your career.

The nose to the grindstone "strivers" don't learn these things. They think the real world is like the classroom, when in fact it's much like a fraternity social. They dress the wrong way, say the wrong things, and clumsily offer opinions that might be true but are socially awkward. So they get pigeonholed as drones. They don't get the promotions, and they don't get the hot spouses.

I've advised my kids to scout out the best Greek orgs, and they've turned out great. They're not brilliant intellectuals, but their superstars socially and interpersonally. They know how to size up a crowd and maximize the benefit to themselves, to capitalize on opportunities to engage with people who can help them. They also know how to avoid people who will damage their reputations, and they don't hold one ounce of guilt for being what some would say is "mean". They know you can't please everyone, so connect with the important people and be the one who others try to please.

Define “turned out great”.

OP here. One is a very successful pharma rep and engaged to a surgeon she met on one of her stops. The other is in a management trainee program at a Fortune 100 company. To reply to another poster, I had been referring to strivers in the classroom, the brown-nose types. But yes they are strivers where it counts, in climbing the latter and engaging people.

*snort - 'pharma rep'? Okay.

Penny?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Depends entirely on your filed.

My kid is getting a science PhD.

Thank God she did not choose a field where success hinges on glad-handing and drinking skills. The ability to make fake small talk and butter up those in the Executive Suite.

Oh sweet summer child. Do you truly think success in academia does not require glad-handing, fake small talk, and the ability to butter up your superiors? Do you not know how hiring and promotion works in academic departments? Better get her working on her social skills or she will be one of the many sad PhDs who does not get tenure. In which case... she will end up working in the business world, where she will need to know how to do glad-handling, fake small talk, and buttering up superiors.

The two friends I know with PHD's ended up teaching for very low pay at community colleges and each of them hated their jobs. These jobs were the only jobs they could get. Unless you are Creole, real Native American, Hispanic, African American then good luck getting tenured jobs at colleges in todays world.