Uncomfortable truth: non-partiers wind up working for the partiers

[Anonymous]

The reality is that the kids who end up very successful as adults can do both. They’re very high capacity people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Depends entirely on your filed.

My kid is getting a science PhD.

Thank God she did not choose a field where success hinges on glad-handing and drinking skills. The ability to make fake small talk and butter up those in the Executive Suite.

But it sounds like you got the flavor of kids you wanted, so it is all good.

Lol. Guess who ends up running things at the university, sweetie? An awful lot of it is about glad handing and unfortunately not about citation counts. It is everywhere!

I think what you're missing is not everyone wants to run the university. I work in a lab and am definitely more of an outcast as I probably fit the image more of the sorority girl than science "geek". I have zero interest in ever being an executive or upper management. I like my spot in the lab.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Depends entirely on your filed.

My kid is getting a science PhD.

Thank God she did not choose a field where success hinges on glad-handing and drinking skills. The ability to make fake small talk and butter up those in the Executive Suite.

But it sounds like you got the flavor of kids you wanted, so it is all good.

Lol. Guess who ends up running things at the university, sweetie? An awful lot of it is about glad handing and unfortunately not about citation counts. It is everywhere!

But arguably the most successful people in the world don’t fit this narrative…the hedge fund guys, tech founders, etc don’t fit this narrative.

Also, the various geek professors at CMU, MIT, Stanford are founders of companies and have net worths that are 100x the university president.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Naive students and parents, usually middle class and below, disdain the Greek system and talk about how they don't want to participate. They claim they're more serious students and aren't into that scene.

What these people don't understand is that the Greek social scene actually trains you to operate in the business world. You learn the importance of socializing, sizing people up at a glance, social drinking, and how to present yourself so that you're accepted and click with the executive class. Most importantly, you learn that you need to be extroverted and to cultivate connections to succeed in your career.

The nose to the grindstone "strivers" don't learn these things. They think the real world is like the classroom, when in fact it's much like a fraternity social. They dress the wrong way, say the wrong things, and clumsily offer opinions that might be true but are socially awkward. So they get pigeonholed as drones. They don't get the promotions, and they don't get the hot spouses.

I've advised my kids to scout out the best Greek orgs, and they've turned out great. They're not brilliant intellectuals, but their superstars socially and interpersonally. They know how to size up a crowd and maximize the benefit to themselves, to capitalize on opportunities to engage with people who can help them. They also know how to avoid people who will damage their reputations, and they don't hold one ounce of guilt for being what some would say is "mean". They know you can't please everyone, so connect with the important people and be the one who others try to please.

Define “turned out great”.

OP here. One is a very successful pharma rep and engaged to a surgeon she met on one of her stops. The other is in a management trainee program at a Fortune 100 company. To reply to another poster, I had been referring to strivers in the classroom, the brown-nose types. But yes they are strivers where it counts, in climbing the latter and engaging people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Depends entirely on your filed.

My kid is getting a science PhD.

Thank God she did not choose a field where success hinges on glad-handing and drinking skills. The ability to make fake small talk and butter up those in the Executive Suite.

Oh sweet summer child. Do you truly think success in academia does not require glad-handing, fake small talk, and the ability to butter up your superiors? Do you not know how hiring and promotion works in academic departments? Better get her working on her social skills or she will be one of the many sad PhDs who does not get tenure. In which case... she will end up working in the business world, where she will need to know how to do glad-handling, fake small talk, and buttering up superiors.

[Anonymous]

OP - you are so dense! I work in healthcare and the scientists and researchers who are tops in thier field and managing others were most definitely not the partiers in college.

Please tell me what field you work in so I can tell my kids to avoid it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Naive students and parents, usually middle class and below, disdain the Greek system and talk about how they don't want to participate. They claim they're more serious students and aren't into that scene.

What these people don't understand is that the Greek social scene actually trains you to operate in the business world. You learn the importance of socializing, sizing people up at a glance, social drinking, and how to present yourself so that you're accepted and click with the executive class. Most importantly, you learn that you need to be extroverted and to cultivate connections to succeed in your career.

The nose to the grindstone "strivers" don't learn these things. They think the real world is like the classroom, when in fact it's much like a fraternity social. They dress the wrong way, say the wrong things, and clumsily offer opinions that might be true but are socially awkward. So they get pigeonholed as drones. They don't get the promotions, and they don't get the hot spouses.

I've advised my kids to scout out the best Greek orgs, and they've turned out great. They're not brilliant intellectuals, but their superstars socially and interpersonally. They know how to size up a crowd and maximize the benefit to themselves, to capitalize on opportunities to engage with people who can help them. They also know how to avoid people who will damage their reputations, and they don't hold one ounce of guilt for being what some would say is "mean". They know you can't please everyone, so connect with the important people and be the one who others try to please.

Define “turned out great”.

OP here. One is a very successful pharma rep and engaged to a surgeon she met on one of her stops. The other is in a management trainee program at a Fortune 100 company. To reply to another poster, I had been referring to strivers in the classroom, the brown-nose types. But yes they are strivers where it counts, in climbing the latter and engaging people.

*snort - 'pharma rep'? Okay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Depends entirely on your filed.

My kid is getting a science PhD.

Thank God she did not choose a field where success hinges on glad-handing and drinking skills. The ability to make fake small talk and butter up those in the Executive Suite.

Oh sweet summer child. Do you truly think success in academia does not require glad-handing, fake small talk, and the ability to butter up your superiors? Do you not know how hiring and promotion works in academic departments? Better get her working on her social skills or she will be one of the many sad PhDs who does not get tenure. In which case... she will end up working in the business world, where she will need to know how to do glad-handling, fake small talk, and buttering up superiors.

This, this, a thousand times this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Naive students and parents, usually middle class and below, disdain the Greek system and talk about how they don't want to participate. They claim they're more serious students and aren't into that scene.

What these people don't understand is that the Greek social scene actually trains you to operate in the business world. You learn the importance of socializing, sizing people up at a glance, social drinking, and how to present yourself so that you're accepted and click with the executive class. Most importantly, you learn that you need to be extroverted and to cultivate connections to succeed in your career.

The nose to the grindstone "strivers" don't learn these things. They think the real world is like the classroom, when in fact it's much like a fraternity social. They dress the wrong way, say the wrong things, and clumsily offer opinions that might be true but are socially awkward. So they get pigeonholed as drones. They don't get the promotions, and they don't get the hot spouses.

I've advised my kids to scout out the best Greek orgs, and they've turned out great. They're not brilliant intellectuals, but they’re superstars socially and interpersonally. They know how to size up a crowd and maximize the benefit to themselves, to capitalize on opportunities to engage with people who can help them. They also know how to avoid people who will damage their reputations, and they don't hold one ounce of guilt for being what some would say is "mean". They know you can't please everyone, so connect with the important people and be the one who others try to please.

I don’t know why OP doesn’t think there are plenty of wealthy people and families who aren’t into this. My nerd kid is going to inherit multi millions from their nerd grandfather.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Depends entirely on your filed.

My kid is getting a science PhD.

Thank God she did not choose a field where success hinges on glad-handing and drinking skills. The ability to make fake small talk and butter up those in the Executive Suite.

But it sounds like you got the flavor of kids you wanted, so it is all good.

Lol. Guess who ends up running things at the university, sweetie? An awful lot of it is about glad handing and unfortunately not about citation counts. It is everywhere!

You sound like some smarmy Godon Gecki.

Too bad Trump University was closed down because they would have snatched up the kind of kids you are describing (though their CV’s of course would be laughed at by any reputable university).

You and your kids can go mingle (with great skill) in your worlds but don’t suggest they are in ANY way superior to more substantive achievers.

[Anonymous]

OP sounds White!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Naive students and parents, usually middle class and below, disdain the Greek system and talk about how they don't want to participate. They claim they're more serious students and aren't into that scene.

What these people don't understand is that the Greek social scene actually trains you to operate in the business world. You learn the importance of socializing, sizing people up at a glance, social drinking, and how to present yourself so that you're accepted and click with the executive class. Most importantly, you learn that you need to be extroverted and to cultivate connections to succeed in your career.

The nose to the grindstone "strivers" don't learn these things. They think the real world is like the classroom, when in fact it's much like a fraternity social. They dress the wrong way, say the wrong things, and clumsily offer opinions that might be true but are socially awkward. So they get pigeonholed as drones. They don't get the promotions, and they don't get the hot spouses.

I've advised my kids to scout out the best Greek orgs, and they've turned out great. They're not brilliant intellectuals, but their superstars socially and interpersonally. They know how to size up a crowd and maximize the benefit to themselves, to capitalize on opportunities to engage with people who can help them. They also know how to avoid people who will damage their reputations, and they don't hold one ounce of guilt for being what some would say is "mean". They know you can't please everyone, so connect with the important people and be the one who others try to please.

Define “turned out great”.

OP here. One is a very successful pharma rep and engaged to a surgeon she met on one of her stops. The other is in a management trainee program at a Fortune 100 company. To reply to another poster, I had been referring to strivers in the classroom, the brown-nose types. But yes they are strivers where it counts, in climbing the latter and engaging people.

I think this is kind of why you lost people. The reality is, if you have poor social skills you're not going to get very far in life with a few exceptions. But that has nothing to do with partying or Greek life. You can be someone who plays dungeons and dragons all weekend and be successful as long as you can also engage with people. And the other reality is there are A LOT of people who have zero interest in running things. DH is a high level executive but didn't have much of a social life in college between work and course loads. I was a sorority girl and partied a ton before I met him. Being an executive or being in management is about the last thing I want to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Naive students and parents, usually middle class and below, disdain the Greek system and talk about how they don't want to participate. They claim they're more serious students and aren't into that scene.

What these people don't understand is that the Greek social scene actually trains you to operate in the business world. You learn the importance of socializing, sizing people up at a glance, social drinking, and how to present yourself so that you're accepted and click with the executive class. Most importantly, you learn that you need to be extroverted and to cultivate connections to succeed in your career.

The nose to the grindstone "strivers" don't learn these things. They think the real world is like the classroom, when in fact it's much like a fraternity social. They dress the wrong way, say the wrong things, and clumsily offer opinions that might be true but are socially awkward. So they get pigeonholed as drones. They don't get the promotions, and they don't get the hot spouses.

I've advised my kids to scout out the best Greek orgs, and they've turned out great. They're not brilliant intellectuals, but their superstars socially and interpersonally. They know how to size up a crowd and maximize the benefit to themselves, to capitalize on opportunities to engage with people who can help them. They also know how to avoid people who will damage their reputations, and they don't hold one ounce of guilt for being what some would say is "mean". They know you can't please everyone, so connect with the important people and be the one who others try to please.

Define “turned out great”.

OP here. One is a very successful pharma rep and engaged to a surgeon she met on one of her stops. The other is in a management trainee program at a Fortune 100 company. To reply to another poster, I had been referring to strivers in the classroom, the brown-nose types. But yes they are strivers where it counts, in climbing the latter and engaging people.

So…they are doing fine…but absolutely nothing special.

Not starting a company…or working for a hedge fund…or really doing anything special.

[Anonymous]

So, you want your kid to become Jeffrey Epstein rather than Jeff Bezos or Bill Gates?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:TL;DR: My kids aren't very intellectual, but they party a lot and are social climbers, and that's what I value.

Lol yep, this about sums it up. Neither of my oldest kids got involved in Greek life. Neither picked schools where there was a big Greek presence. Both are thriving professionally.