How much are you budgeting for long term or elder care?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My plan is hopefully to exit while I still have the power to do so.

People say that to avoid thinking about tomorrow’s problem. Most of us will have to face the reality. Only very few can really pull the trigger.

[Anonymous]

Dealing with a cantankerous 88 year old mom in skilled nursing. She can do ADL but otherwise due to depression and her personality, expects others to engage with her and keep her entertained. She’s at the point where claims no appetite and refuses to eat. I think she’s giving up.

We are exhausted.

I plan to simply go on a hunger strike and stop drinking fluids. I know this can be done - you can make a choice to stop hydrating and can die peacefully.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Dealing with a cantankerous 88 year old mom in skilled nursing. She can do ADL but otherwise due to depression and her personality, expects others to engage with her and keep her entertained. She’s at the point where claims no appetite and refuses to eat. I think she’s giving up.

We are exhausted.

I plan to simply go on a hunger strike and stop drinking fluids. I know this can be done - you can make a choice to stop hydrating and can die peacefully.

No appetite may mean that she’s started circling the death airport and preparing to land. Unless the doctors can find a way to treat nausea or taste problems, and that improves her appetite, stop trying to make her eat.

See if you can arrange for a hospice nurse to look at her and find out what the hospice nurse thinks.

If your mom is nearing the end, the goal is to cut out any intervention that doesn’t make her happier or more confident.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t. I’m a nurse and even the fancy places are a crap shoot. If it gets to the point that I can’t take care of myself, I rather peace out and not be a burden to my loved ones and/or live in any type of long term facility.

Your body doesn't let you die when you decide to die, absent a suicide. Therein lies the problem. You may want to peace out but your body is still hanging around, refusing to let go.

Yes in cases of dementia. But I’m talking about deciding not to proceed with care and if needed, leave on my own terms if I’m cognizant things will get worse. And if I can’t make the decision-I have an Advance Directive/living will. Don’t prolong my life if my quality of life is going to suck. Don’t put feeding tube in just to prolong the univetable if I’m old and demented. 40, have cancer, and to be here for my kids? Sure! This goes beyond just age. Some 80-90 year olds are spry and sharp. And some are just hanging on at a LTACH/hospital/nursing home bc family wants everything done. Don’t just have a financial plan. Have a discussion with family and have it in writting.

There's a big difference between being diagnosed with terminal cancer and saying I'm not going to fight it to the end just to gain six more months of pain and, say, getting PSP or Parkinsons or the myriad forms of cognitive decline. Most of the elderly people hanging around forever and draining their assets in care for a semi-lucid life aren't dealing with cancer or other illnesses where they're only alive due to marvels of expensive medicine. They're in a situation where their bodies are still alive even if the brain is effectively dying and we as a society do not have an answer to that situation other than spend a fortune to keep them going.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I keep a box of ammo in the safe.

This. No way I am budgeting for skilled nursing or memory care. I will leave this world before that happens. Why do people think we were ever meant to live that way? Science makes our bodies live longer than they were meant to and left the brain behind.

This is my position as well. No desire to hang in once quality of life declines to that point.

You don't have a choice. The tragedy of cognitive decline is that unlike advanced cancer, it doesn't have a neat ending within sight. Your body is still functioning and you even have some brain function. If your family tried to starve you to an early death or stopped giving you pills or pushed you down the stairs, they would be in huge trouble, with prosecution and imprisonment. If you get cancer you can have some sense of control by refusing treatment and going out at a hospice with medicine to mitigate the pain till the final sleep. But there are many ways a life comes to an end, and cancer is just one of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I keep a box of ammo in the safe.

This. No way I am budgeting for skilled nursing or memory care. I will leave this world before that happens. Why do people think we were ever meant to live that way? Science makes our bodies live longer than they were meant to and left the brain behind.

Having watched it happen a few times, the vast majority of people don’t do this even if they think they will. You still feel like yourself while you’re declining so it doesn’t feel like “time” and then it’s too late.

Exactly. My parents always swore they’d crash the car into a piling once they became infirm. Instead Dad spent four years in a nursing home with Alzheimer’s. Very few people can actually pull the trigger (literally) when the time comes.

This. The closer you get to death the less appealing it sounds over the alternative.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I keep a box of ammo in the safe.

This. No way I am budgeting for skilled nursing or memory care. I will leave this world before that happens. Why do people think we were ever meant to live that way? Science makes our bodies live longer than they were meant to and left the brain behind.

Having watched it happen a few times, the vast majority of people don’t do this even if they think they will. You still feel like yourself while you’re declining so it doesn’t feel like “time” and then it’s too late.

Exactly. My parents always swore they’d crash the car into a piling once they became infirm. Instead Dad spent four years in a nursing home with Alzheimer’s. Very few people can actually pull the trigger (literally) when the time comes.

This. The closer you get to death the less appealing it sounds over the alternative.

That is part of it. But many people would also choose to end it if they could, but have no practical means to do so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Unfortunately there is no LTC policy available on the market that will cover 10-20 years of care. The best you can really do is buy a policy that covers 3 years so that the expenses make less of a dent in your portoflio for the surviving spouse.

There are products today where spouses/partners can share 10 to 20 years of care. Five different insurance companies offer products with benefits as high as that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
1)We're thinking about doing a small joint QLAC that is deferred for old-age so that the elder care for one spouse doesn't bankrupt the other. Basically to bring it up so that social security + annuity equals very basic expenses.

In theory, QLACs sound like a great idea.
In reality, when you get an actual quote, the return on a QLAC is horrible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
2)We're planning on putting aside 250k each at retirement that is invested for long-term care through a combination of stock index and t-bills/TIPS.

If you've got $250K in T-bills/TIPS and your spouse has $250K in T-bills/TIPS, why not, every year, take 1% of the return on that $500K and buy a shared long-term care policy that can be used by either of you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't "budget" LTC per se. Yes, there is always a scenario under which our money will run out, so my kids won't inherit much. This is another reason to fund their 529s to the max to make sure that they get at least something.

According to ElderLawAnswers dot com, "“Say if you have a stroke and need nursing home care, the 529 account is an available asset” under Medicaid rules, says Bruce Reinoso, an elder law attorney at Magavern, Magavern & Grimm in Buffalo and an ElderLawAnswers member. This means money in the 529 account must be exhausted before Medicaid will pay nursing home bills. Worse, spending the money in the 529 account for medical bills instead of college will trigger deferred taxes, plus penalties of 10 percent (or up to 20 percent in some states) that apply if the money is used for something other than education."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I keep a box of ammo in the safe.

Let's hope you remember the combination.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
No way I am budgeting for skilled nursing or memory care. I will leave this world before that happens.

By not budgeting for it, you become immune to it.
It will never happen.
You found the secret.
Congratulations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I keep a box of ammo in the safe.

Let's hope you remember the combination.

Lol just set it 1-2-3-4-5 and write it down on a sticky

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I’d have $250k a person earmarked per person. Chances are great that only one person will need it.

Why not take 1% of what you earn on that $500K and buy a long-term care policy that you and your spouse can share?