How much are you budgeting for long term or elder care?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I keep a box of ammo in the safe.

This. No way I am budgeting for skilled nursing or memory care. I will leave this world before that happens. Why do people think we were ever meant to live that way? Science makes our bodies live longer than they were meant to and left the brain behind.

Having watched it happen a few times, the vast majority of people don’t do this even if they think they will. You still feel like yourself while you’re declining so it doesn’t feel like “time” and then it’s too late.

Exactly. My parents always swore they’d crash the car into a piling once they became infirm. Instead Dad spent four years in a nursing home with Alzheimer’s. Very few people can actually pull the trigger (literally) when the time comes.[/quote]

Very sad that you talk about your own dad this way. Are you blaming him for unable to kill himself?

What are you talking about? My only point is that lots of people talk about assisted suicide, but very few people actually follow through. I don't blame him for anything.

[Anonymous]

I don’t. I’m a nurse and even the fancy places are a crap shoot. If it gets to the point that I can’t take care of myself, I rather peace out and not be a burden to my loved ones and/or live in any type of long term facility.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My mom’s assisted living costs just over $9k per month. At a high enough net worth the earnings on interest cover the cost. I’d like to have $2 million invested for when I need assistance. That way I could come close to not having to touch principal so it can be passed on.

+1.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t. I’m a nurse and even the fancy places are a crap shoot. If it gets to the point that I can’t take care of myself, I rather peace out and not be a burden to my loved ones and/or live in any type of long term facility.

Your body doesn't let you die when you decide to die, absent a suicide. Therein lies the problem. You may want to peace out but your body is still hanging around, refusing to let go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those of you who don't have LTC insurance, how much are you including in your retirement budget for assisted living, memory care, or long-term care? My partner and I are trying to budget to have ~$1M remaining at age 90, which could support a few years of LTC for each of us at current rates. But I also wonder - what if one of us has a stroke at 70, and we need 10-20 years of continuing care? Just wondering what other people's assumptions look like.

We have 3 ways of thinking about this:
1)We're thinking about doing a small joint QLAC that is deferred for old-age so that the elder care for one spouse doesn't bankrupt the other. Basically to bring it up so that social security + annuity equals very basic expenses.

2)We're planning on putting aside 250k each at retirement that is invested for long-term care through a combination of stock index and t-bills/TIPS.

3) We are doing our planning to leave an inheritance (we put it in the models as a minimum of 500k inflation adjusted) that ostensibly could be tapped if the first two things aren't enough.

So 2 and 3 are kind of like your 'ending with 1 million' but we're instead doing 'setting aside 500k at point of retirement and letting it grow with that investment time frame" and 'ending with 500k extra as a minimum."

Why not do just #2 and put more seed money into it? i don't get what 1 and 3 are doing in support of LTC that you can't do with additional 2

1 is to offset the worst outcome which is one spouse needs extensive LTC and the other lives a long time. You have to exhaust pretty much of your household assets to qualify for Medicaid and no matter how much money you have, memory care for a long time could blow through it. It doesn't cost that much to do a small deferred annuity (and there are low fees for the simple ones) but it's a sure thing.

3 is just what we enter into the retirement models (they ask how much you want to leave), so the difference between 2 and 3 is more mental accounting than anything truly meaningful. 2 we put aside for that purpose and it's not counted in our retirement income and 3 is a variable in the retirement models.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t. I’m a nurse and even the fancy places are a crap shoot. If it gets to the point that I can’t take care of myself, I rather peace out and not be a burden to my loved ones and/or live in any type of long term facility.

Your body doesn't let you die when you decide to die, absent a suicide. Therein lies the problem. You may want to peace out but your body is still hanging around, refusing to let go.

Yes in cases of dementia. But I’m talking about deciding not to proceed with care and if needed, leave on my own terms if I’m cognizant things will get worse. And if I can’t make the decision-I have an Advance Directive/living will. Don’t prolong my life if my quality of life is going to suck. Don’t put feeding tube in just to prolong the univetable if I’m old and demented. 40, have cancer, and to be here for my kids? Sure! This goes beyond just age. Some 80-90 year olds are spry and sharp. And some are just hanging on at a LTACH/hospital/nursing home bc family wants everything done. Don’t just have a financial plan. Have a discussion with family and have it in writting.

[Anonymous]

My plan is hopefully to exit while I still have the power to do so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t. I’m a nurse and even the fancy places are a crap shoot. If it gets to the point that I can’t take care of myself, I rather peace out and not be a burden to my loved ones and/or live in any type of long term facility.

Your body doesn't let you die when you decide to die, absent a suicide. Therein lies the problem. You may want to peace out but your body is still hanging around, refusing to let go.

A trip to OR or Switzerland will take care of that

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t. I’m a nurse and even the fancy places are a crap shoot. If it gets to the point that I can’t take care of myself, I rather peace out and not be a burden to my loved ones and/or live in any type of long term facility.

Your body doesn't let you die when you decide to die, absent a suicide. Therein lies the problem. You may want to peace out but your body is still hanging around, refusing to let go.

A trip to OR or Switzerland will take care of that

You might not to be in a position to travel or make travel plans etc. The reality is that a ton of people say this is their "plan" for their long term care and then they change their minds when the time comes. You might be the .01% that's different, but it probably makes sense to also have a back-up plan in place. Otherwise you will become a burden to others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t. I’m a nurse and even the fancy places are a crap shoot. If it gets to the point that I can’t take care of myself, I rather peace out and not be a burden to my loved ones and/or live in any type of long term facility.

Your body doesn't let you die when you decide to die, absent a suicide. Therein lies the problem. You may want to peace out but your body is still hanging around, refusing to let go.

A trip to OR or Switzerland will take care of that

You might not to be in a position to travel or make travel plans etc. The reality is that a ton of people say this is their "plan" for their long term care and then they change their minds when the time comes. You might be the .01% that's different, but it probably makes sense to also have a back-up plan in place. Otherwise you will become a burden to others.

+1 read "In Love" by Amy Bloom for a brutally honest memoir about how hard it is to access assisted suicide

https://www.npr.org/2022/03/09/1085387825/in-love-tells-the-true-story-of-a-writer-supporting-her-husbands-euthanasia-choi

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My mother swore she would not live in a facility and stayed at home even though it was a struggle. At 79 years old, she developed a urinary tract infection which went septic and destroyed her kidneys. She had a long talk with her doctor, refused dialysis, and died in a few days. She was a brave woman who practiced what she preached. I miss her.

This is the way to do it. If you can still make your medical decisions, refusing care for an infection is probably the quickest way to go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: I hope I won't need a nurse or a medical professional. If I do.. this means I am severely disabled and my QOL is zero and I might as well get euthanized, although that would be a harder decision.. than being brain dead.

Lemme tell ya, we are in exactly that position now. It is easy to glibly state you just wouldn't want to live, if your body stops working and you need care.... but imagine that you have kids, and a spouse, and you want to live to see your kids grow up and get married and have jobs and their own kids... it's funny how it turns out you DO want to live, after all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My plan is hopefully to exit while I still have the power to do so.

Have you really thought about it? Where will you draw the line, between a life worth living, and a life not worth living?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t. I’m a nurse and even the fancy places are a crap shoot. If it gets to the point that I can’t take care of myself, I rather peace out and not be a burden to my loved ones and/or live in any type of long term facility.

Yep. We've had 3 relatives on both mine and my husband's side in fancy ($$$) memory care places and in all three cases the families had to pay for personal 1:1 aides on top of the cost of the program to get adequate care for their loved one. It was really disturbing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I keep a box of ammo in the safe.

This. No way I am budgeting for skilled nursing or memory care. I will leave this world before that happens. Why do people think we were ever meant to live that way? Science makes our bodies live longer than they were meant to and left the brain behind.

This is my position as well. No desire to hang in once quality of life declines to that point.