How much are you budgeting for long term or elder care?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I keep a box of ammo in the safe.

This. No way I am budgeting for skilled nursing or memory care. I will leave this world before that happens. Why do people think we were ever meant to live that way? Science makes our bodies live longer than they were meant to and left the brain behind.

Having watched it happen a few times, the vast majority of people don’t do this even if they think they will. You still feel like yourself while you’re declining so it doesn’t feel like “time” and then it’s too late.

[Anonymous]

What everybody else does. Sell the house to cover nursing home and LTC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I anticipate an inheritance from my mom of at least $500k (she's in her mid 80s, lives with my sibling, and has LTC insurance if needed). We don't factor that into our retirement except as LTC. If we don't use it, that will pass to our kids.

My dad, FIL, MIL have all died and none used any kind of LTC.

I hope your sibling is getting the bulk of the inheritance

She lives in the house my parents bought and will get that while the rest of the estate is split between all siblings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I keep a box of ammo in the safe.

This. No way I am budgeting for skilled nursing or memory care. I will leave this world before that happens. Why do people think we were ever meant to live that way? Science makes our bodies live longer than they were meant to and left the brain behind.

Having watched it happen a few times, the vast majority of people don’t do this even if they think they will. You still feel like yourself while you’re declining so it doesn’t feel like “time” and then it’s too late.

Exactly. My parents always swore they’d crash the car into a piling once they became infirm. Instead Dad spent four years in a nursing home with Alzheimer’s. Very few people can actually pull the trigger (literally) when the time comes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sorry to be blunt, but I am not obsessed about it. I really don't care much what happens to me if I am brain dead and can't remember anything or feel. If I have as stroke and my brain is gone, or I get severe dementia, I'd rather be euthanized. If I am mentally sharp but my body isn't working, I'd try to use my assets wisely to get minimum adequate care. I'd prefer to live at home and have a visiting (or live-in) housekeeper to cook and clean or a low wage type of caretaker. I hope I won't need a nurse or a medical professional. If I do.. this means I am severely disabled and my QOL is zero and I might as well get euthanized, although that would be a harder decision.. than being brain dead.

If I fail to accumulate enough or something bad happens and I lose most of what I saved from decades of hard work, then I would work on eliminating assets and being poor. This way you get government assistance and extra medical coverage. I will have to research which state/city pays the most and establish residency there before I become frail.

This is illegal though in most of this country and even where it is technically legal it is very difficult to get it. Meaning as much as you may imagine this is what you want to happen in that scenario, it is very unlikely it’ll actually happen that way. So essentially it doesn’t matter that “you’d rather be euthanized” because odds are you won’t be euthanized. So you still have to have a plan for care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't "budget" LTC per se. Yes, there is always a scenario under which our money will run out, so my kids won't inherit much. This is another reason to fund their 529s to the max to make sure that they get at least something.

Yeah, the money my Grandma would have passed on to her kids was used up in long term care, but the kids were just grateful it was there and had already gotten their lives going and were in their 40s. One of the kids in particular could have really used an inheritance, but it was not to be.

[Anonymous]

My mother swore she would not live in a facility and stayed at home even though it was a struggle. At 79 years old, she developed a urinary tract infection which went septic and destroyed her kidneys. She had a long talk with her doctor, refused dialysis, and died in a few days. She was a brave woman who practiced what she preached. I miss her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those of you who don't have LTC insurance, how much are you including in your retirement budget for assisted living, memory care, or long-term care? My partner and I are trying to budget to have ~$1M remaining at age 90, which could support a few years of LTC for each of us at current rates. But I also wonder - what if one of us has a stroke at 70, and we need 10-20 years of continuing care? Just wondering what other people's assumptions look like.

We have 3 ways of thinking about this:
1)We're thinking about doing a small joint QLAC that is deferred for old-age so that the elder care for one spouse doesn't bankrupt the other. Basically to bring it up so that social security + annuity equals very basic expenses.

2)We're planning on putting aside 250k each at retirement that is invested for long-term care through a combination of stock index and t-bills/TIPS.

3) We are doing our planning to leave an inheritance (we put it in the models as a minimum of 500k inflation adjusted) that ostensibly could be tapped if the first two things aren't enough.

So 2 and 3 are kind of like your 'ending with 1 million' but we're instead doing 'setting aside 500k at point of retirement and letting it grow with that investment time frame" and 'ending with 500k extra as a minimum."

Why not do just #2 and put more seed money into it? i don't get what 1 and 3 are doing in support of LTC that you can't do with additional 2

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I keep a box of ammo in the safe.

This. No way I am budgeting for skilled nursing or memory care. I will leave this world before that happens. Why do people think we were ever meant to live that way? Science makes our bodies live longer than they were meant to and left the brain behind.

Having watched it happen a few times, the vast majority of people don’t do this even if they think they will. You still feel like yourself while you’re declining so it doesn’t feel like “time” and then it’s too late.

Exactly. My parents always swore they’d crash the car into a piling once they became infirm. Instead Dad spent four years in a nursing home with Alzheimer’s. Very few people can actually pull the trigger (literally) when the time comes.[/quote]

Very sad that you talk about your own dad this way. Are you blaming him for unable to kill himself?

[Anonymous]

Our goal is to stay in our paid off house as long as possible, worth $2 million today. When we downsize, the extra house money will be our “nursing home” fund. Plan B is to “off” ourselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For those of you who don't have LTC insurance, how much are you including in your retirement budget for assisted living, memory care, or long-term care? My partner and I are trying to budget to have ~$1M remaining at age 90, which could support a few years of LTC for each of us at current rates. But I also wonder - what if one of us has a stroke at 70, and we need 10-20 years of continuing care? Just wondering what other people's assumptions look like.

Unfortunately there is no LTC policy available on the market that will cover 10-20 years of care. The best you can really do is buy a policy that covers 3 years so that the expenses make less of a dent in your portoflio for the surviving spouse.

[Anonymous]

If you move into a continuing care retirement community and can pay the monthly rates, then you are effectively taken care of, no? The one near me is quite nice as such communities go and a 1-bedroom starts at, I believe, $6k a month for a single occupant after you've bought into it, and as long I or my estate can keep paying the 6k plus whatever normal annual increases, the community has to take care of me regardless of what happens? Even if I move in completely healthy and five years later develop alzheimers? That's my understanding. Correct me if I'm wrong!

[Anonymous]

make sure you know exactly what your LTC policy covers. Most of them will leave in a crappy nursing center with little to no real care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you move into a continuing care retirement community and can pay the monthly rates, then you are effectively taken care of, no? The one near me is quite nice as such communities go and a 1-bedroom starts at, I believe, $6k a month for a single occupant after you've bought into it, and as long I or my estate can keep paying the 6k plus whatever normal annual increases, the community has to take care of me regardless of what happens? Even if I move in completely healthy and five years later develop alzheimers? That's my understanding. Correct me if I'm wrong!

At a properly run CCRC that is correct. My parents live in a very nice one. There are currently 4 widowed women in their 90s who have "run out of money". That means they have less than $30K left. When that happens, they stop having to pay their monthly fee and get to live for free. That is what the $500K+ entrance fee is for to cover people who "use up their money or people who end up in anything beyond independent living". And the CCRC does not touch your LTC payouts---if that happens, the money goes to the resident if you have LTC insurance.

Basically the only added fees once you go beyond independent living is $300/month per person for meals, since your full 3 meals a day is now covered.

As stated, my parents are living this and know the 4 ladies who no longer pay anything. It's 100% accurate and they literally pay nothing anymore to the CCRC to live there. Their standard of care/lifestyle is the exactly the same. The CCRC knows how to calculate the Entrance fees so they end up on the positive side of the $$$ plan 99% of the time.
For example, my parents will be 94 and 95 before they "run out of money" at the earliest. And should either end up any situation where LTC insurance is triggered, that will last a bit longer with those payouts to my parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I keep a box of ammo in the safe.

This. No way I am budgeting for skilled nursing or memory care. I will leave this world before that happens. Why do people think we were ever meant to live that way? Science makes our bodies live longer than they were meant to and left the brain behind.

Having watched it happen a few times, the vast majority of people don’t do this even if they think they will. You still feel like yourself while you’re declining so it doesn’t feel like “time” and then it’s too late.

Unfortunately this is true. It’s not like the decline of dementia happens overnight, it’s a long drawn out process that takes years. And even as the decline gets worse there are still moments of lucidity. The absolutely worst part is they are aware of what’s happening and their increased limitations so it’s scary, and sad and frustrating. I wish there were an option other than waiting it out as it slowly takes you.