Why the middle class has a huge disadvantage in admissions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes. We had to pay almost full private university tuition, except for a tiny Pell grant that was maybe $3000. Current price is almost $80,000/year. Parents = public school teacher + nurse.

You aren't real middle class and bring in at least $180K+ and choose an expensive college so clearly you have money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is frustrating that if you make $250k now, the assumption is that you have been making $250k long enough to save $320k for your child's education. For those of us who only started making that amount of money when our child was in high school (with both parents working all along), that's not realistic.

It's not the end of the world; our child will be fine. But it's quite the bucket of cold water to realize that a whole lot of schools are completely inaccessible to your kid, schools that would have been accessible a few years ago when we made $100k.

And FWIW, I am fully aware that $250K is NOT middle class! It's a great income and we're grateful. But having that income now doesn't magically make $300k of savings appear.

I hear ya, sister!! Same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem for middle class is affordability of colleges unless it is in state universities.
Not rich enough to pay and not poor enough to get financial aid.

Yes disadvantaged for being in the middle..

Yes. So very bright kids that get into these selective privates/ivies can't afford it like kids of lower income that get to go for free. And, many of these families just live in lower cost areas or one of the parents doesn't work. It is very sour to experience it. I either drain my savings or my kid can't do what others of the same grades/scores and advantages life get to do. And, if you choose to go into debt to fund their dream school, you find out that over 50% aren't paying the full price tag like you, many not even close to the full price tag and at many of those privates the kids don't have to pay a dime.

Oh the drama. Our kids will go to state colleges and will be just fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I get frustrated by people that get so bent out of shape about this.
I get being frustrated by the rich (I say we eat them! ) but the simmering resentment about people at lower incomes disturbs me.
Yes, you will not qualify for financial aid (or very little financial aid) if you are at a certain income level. But people just throw the word "aid" around like it's just a big present wrapped up in a bow with no strings attached. Yes, some aid is just a grant--essentially free money. You have to be very low income indeed to qualify for that. Would you really want your income to be that low, just for the four years of grant money that your student would be eligible for. Think of the impact that lower income has on every facet of a person's life. Do you really feel that they are getting some kind of unfair advantage because they get more money for this one thing, while you have access to more money for... everything else.

Lots of aid is work study. It's not a free ride--the student has to spend hours of their week doing work. We did not qualify for financial aid, but both of my kids have found part time work while they are in undergrad to offset living expenses. If your student doesn't get officially "work study" you can make your own work study.

Finally there's the financial aid that is loans. Loans are not free money. Loans have to be paid back, and they have to be paid back with interest. That student that got the big aid package is often getting a big loan with it. Yes, it's the "nicer" loan, but it's still a loan. It's still starting off post grad with debt, and because that student is from a lower income family they do not have the "cushion" that a student from a middle class family has.

I'm grateful that we had the means to put a lot of money into a 529 to pay for tuition at state schools. I'm grateful that we are able to continue to put that same amount of money away each month while they are in school to pay for rent/expenses as they finish up. We were able to do this because I used the many, MANY tools that are available to give middle class people a VERY CLEAR picture of the cost of education. Having that knowlege, and having the goal of paying for undergrad for our two children, allowed us to plan accordingly.
-We made it abundantly clear to our kids that we could do in-state tuition (or the equivalent if they somehow won the merit scholarship lottery)
-We live in a modest townhouse
-We have one car
-Our family vacation were in state parks, while some classmates went to Europe

I'm not begrudging people who made different choices. If we had more $$$, heck yeah I'd have done European vacations!
It would also be fun to be able to tell my kids they could go to literally any college they wanted, private or public, that would have them.
It's also fine for people to put a higher value on certain kinds of homes, or activities, and be putting less money away in college savings.
What bugs me is the griping from people who's kids are exiting high school that seem to suddenly have the huge amount of outrage, and act like this is some kind of new explosive revelation.

FWIW, I worked my entire way through college and my kids will likely need to as well if they choose to go private. That's because we are getting $0. And we fall in the donut hole.

[Anonymous]

^as if all of us did European vacations and drive Mercedes. LOL. Clueless. Net price calculator EVERYWHERE is that we will get $0. We saved, we aren't big spenders, etc.

There is this complete disconnect that people don't understand how hard some of us worked and the sacrifices we made after paying off our own student loans because now we fall just outside the aid group. And, any generational advantage we managed to scrape up to will essentially be wiped out by college tuition.

Instead of fighting with each other, we all need to demand something be done about the exorbitant cost of college these days. It will be $100k year soon for many of these private universities and the publics will bump accordingly. AT 85K, we aren't that far away from it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why not use the state school option?

A lot of middle class do it.
But the conversation with your teenager is not going to be easy.
Kid: I am so excited to be accepted to my favorite and top college in the country.
You: We can’t afford 80k a year, instead you should go to state university.
Kid : So, tell me why I was working so hard in high school?
You : Well…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not use the state school option?

A lot of middle class do it.
But the conversation with your teenager is not going to be easy.
Kid: I am so excited to be accepted to my favorite and top college in the country.
You: We can’t afford 80k a year, instead you should go to state university.
Kid : So, tell me why I was working so hard in high school?
You : Well…

Yep. Though my dad told me I could only apply to VA public universities. He explained how he’d pay in-state in full or I could cover the difference for private. I just listened and applied in-state. My parents always mentioned the high cost of privates/ivies because we were middle class donut hole and would get zero aid.

We make more (adjusted with the times) than my parents did so we are surrounded by Ivy/top 10 private grads who wish to send their kids the same so I get it’s hard for them to digest.

[Anonymous]

The bad news is that life is terribly unfair. The good news is the military is hiring & their education benefits are outstanding. So quit the I-live-in-McLean-and-only-make-$200k pouting & get your kid to start doing 200 push-ups per day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not use the state school option?

A lot of middle class do it.
But the conversation with your teenager is not going to be easy.
Kid: I am so excited to be accepted to my favorite and top college in the country.
You: We can’t afford 80k a year, instead you should go to state university.
Kid : So, tell me why I was working so hard in high school?
You : Well…

Your kid isn’t getting in to the Harvards of the world (neither is mine). But if a/he got in, you would figure it out. 84% of students accepted to Harvard accepted a spot there this year. There were some that chose other schools but it is unlikely that many kids got in who decided not to go because of the cost. The data doesn’t support this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The bad news is that life is terribly unfair. The good news is the military is hiring & their education benefits are outstanding. So quit the I-live-in-McLean-and-only-make-$200k pouting & get your kid to start doing 200 push-ups per day.

Seems like the same advice should also go to low income people. Please quit the I-haven’t-figured-out-how-to-get-ahead-so-give-me-everything-for-free pouting.
It is true that life is unfair… for everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not use the state school option?

A lot of middle class do it.
But the conversation with your teenager is not going to be easy.
Kid: I am so excited to be accepted to my favorite and top college in the country.
You: We can’t afford 80k a year, instead you should go to state university.
Kid : So, tell me why I was working so hard in high school?
You : Well…

So have this conversation with them when they start high school/ start thinking about colleges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get frustrated by people that get so bent out of shape about this.
I get being frustrated by the rich (I say we eat them! ) but the simmering resentment about people at lower incomes disturbs me.
Yes, you will not qualify for financial aid (or very little financial aid) if you are at a certain income level. But people just throw the word "aid" around like it's just a big present wrapped up in a bow with no strings attached. Yes, some aid is just a grant--essentially free money. You have to be very low income indeed to qualify for that. Would you really want your income to be that low, just for the four years of grant money that your student would be eligible for. Think of the impact that lower income has on every facet of a person's life. Do you really feel that they are getting some kind of unfair advantage because they get more money for this one thing, while you have access to more money for... everything else.

Lots of aid is work study. It's not a free ride--the student has to spend hours of their week doing work. We did not qualify for financial aid, but both of my kids have found part time work while they are in undergrad to offset living expenses. If your student doesn't get officially "work study" you can make your own work study.

Finally there's the financial aid that is loans. Loans are not free money. Loans have to be paid back, and they have to be paid back with interest. That student that got the big aid package is often getting a big loan with it. Yes, it's the "nicer" loan, but it's still a loan. It's still starting off post grad with debt, and because that student is from a lower income family they do not have the "cushion" that a student from a middle class family has.

I'm grateful that we had the means to put a lot of money into a 529 to pay for tuition at state schools. I'm grateful that we are able to continue to put that same amount of money away each month while they are in school to pay for rent/expenses as they finish up. We were able to do this because I used the many, MANY tools that are available to give middle class people a VERY CLEAR picture of the cost of education. Having that knowlege, and having the goal of paying for undergrad for our two children, allowed us to plan accordingly.
-We made it abundantly clear to our kids that we could do in-state tuition (or the equivalent if they somehow won the merit scholarship lottery)
-We live in a modest townhouse
-We have one car
-Our family vacation were in state parks, while some classmates went to Europe

I'm not begrudging people who made different choices. If we had more $$$, heck yeah I'd have done European vacations!
It would also be fun to be able to tell my kids they could go to literally any college they wanted, private or public, that would have them.
It's also fine for people to put a higher value on certain kinds of homes, or activities, and be putting less money away in college savings.
What bugs me is the griping from people who's kids are exiting high school that seem to suddenly have the huge amount of outrage, and act like this is some kind of new explosive revelation.

FWIW, I worked my entire way through college and my kids will likely need to as well if they choose to go private. That's because we are getting $0. And we fall in the donut hole.

I went to a state school and I and many of my friends had part-time jobs during school. It’s not a big deal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not use the state school option?

A lot of middle class do it.
But the conversation with your teenager is not going to be easy.
Kid: I am so excited to be accepted to my favorite and top college in the country.
You: We can’t afford 80k a year, instead you should go to state university.
Kid : So, tell me why I was working so hard in high school?
You : Well…

Your kid isn’t getting in to the Harvards of the world (neither is mine). But if a/he got in, you would figure it out. 84% of students accepted to Harvard accepted a spot there this year. There were some that chose other schools but it is unlikely that many kids got in who decided not to go because of the cost. The data doesn’t support this.

Not Harvard but DC was accepted to t-10 college.
And that’s the exact conversation we had.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The bad news is that life is terribly unfair. The good news is the military is hiring & their education benefits are outstanding. So quit the I-live-in-McLean-and-only-make-$200k pouting & get your kid to start doing 200 push-ups per day.

Where they send the military and type of warfare - I’d be hesitant. We don’t exactly treat our veterans well.

[Anonymous]

Maybe on their work resume then can have an asterisk next to their degree from state school

With the footnote:

*accepted to JHU, UPenn, Georgetown & Duke