Why the middle class has a huge disadvantage in admissions.

[Anonymous]

The middle class has the biggest disadvantage when it comes to college admissions. Do you agree with this?

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[Anonymous]

Nope, the real middle class cannot pay for college.

[Anonymous]

The problem for middle class is affordability of colleges unless it is in state universities.
Not rich enough to pay and not poor enough to get financial aid.

[Anonymous]

100%. Middle class can't afford it, upper middle class can but paying it pushes them to barely middle class. Only lower middle benefits from aid. Students suffer most as they don't want to drain parents but can't get aid or lians on their own.

[Anonymous]

Yes. We had to pay almost full private university tuition, except for a tiny Pell grant that was maybe $3000. Current price is almost $80,000/year. Parents = public school teacher + nurse.

[Anonymous]

I get frustrated by people that get so bent out of shape about this.
I get being frustrated by the rich (I say we eat them! ) but the simmering resentment about people at lower incomes disturbs me.
Yes, you will not qualify for financial aid (or very little financial aid) if you are at a certain income level. But people just throw the word "aid" around like it's just a big present wrapped up in a bow with no strings attached. Yes, some aid is just a grant--essentially free money. You have to be very low income indeed to qualify for that. Would you really want your income to be that low, just for the four years of grant money that your student would be eligible for. Think of the impact that lower income has on every facet of a person's life. Do you really feel that they are getting some kind of unfair advantage because they get more money for this one thing, while you have access to more money for... everything else.

Lots of aid is work study. It's not a free ride--the student has to spend hours of their week doing work. We did not qualify for financial aid, but both of my kids have found part time work while they are in undergrad to offset living expenses. If your student doesn't get officially "work study" you can make your own work study.

Finally there's the financial aid that is loans. Loans are not free money. Loans have to be paid back, and they have to be paid back with interest. That student that got the big aid package is often getting a big loan with it. Yes, it's the "nicer" loan, but it's still a loan. It's still starting off post grad with debt, and because that student is from a lower income family they do not have the "cushion" that a student from a middle class family has.

I'm grateful that we had the means to put a lot of money into a 529 to pay for tuition at state schools. I'm grateful that we are able to continue to put that same amount of money away each month while they are in school to pay for rent/expenses as they finish up. We were able to do this because I used the many, MANY tools that are available to give middle class people a VERY CLEAR picture of the cost of education. Having that knowlege, and having the goal of paying for undergrad for our two children, allowed us to plan accordingly.
-We made it abundantly clear to our kids that we could do in-state tuition (or the equivalent if they somehow won the merit scholarship lottery)
-We live in a modest townhouse
-We have one car
-Our family vacation were in state parks, while some classmates went to Europe

I'm not begrudging people who made different choices. If we had more $$$, heck yeah I'd have done European vacations!
It would also be fun to be able to tell my kids they could go to literally any college they wanted, private or public, that would have them.
It's also fine for people to put a higher value on certain kinds of homes, or activities, and be putting less money away in college savings.
What bugs me is the griping from people who's kids are exiting high school that seem to suddenly have the huge amount of outrage, and act like this is some kind of new explosive revelation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Nope, the real middle class cannot pay for college.

+1

OP is completely and utterly OUT OF TOUCH.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I get frustrated by people that get so bent out of shape about this.
I get being frustrated by the rich (I say we eat them! ) but the simmering resentment about people at lower incomes disturbs me.

YES!

Class mobility actually helps us all as a society. There is actual value in putting our young adults in learning environments where they experience life and opinions outside the bubble they were raised in. A concern for access to higher education for a highly diverse grop of students is not universaly fair, but actually serves the learning environment for all, by better preparing students to what the full breadth of society is, outside their own limited horizons.

We need to expand the fairness argument and include the rights of academic institutions to create a student body diverse enough for those learning opportunities to occur. It really IS about academic freedom.

As for the middle class, our kids will still go to college. Maybe one university becomes out of reach, but many others provide just the right spot for everyone. There is absolutely no argument that stands when we have such a rich higher education system in the US. This is absolutely NOT the zero-sum game that some media is making it look like.

[Anonymous]

eh... only the first paragraph above is the quote. And there is a "just" missing in the second paragraph. "... is not JUST universally fair, but..."

Hit Submit too fast...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes. We had to pay almost full private university tuition, except for a tiny Pell grant that was maybe $3000. Current price is almost $80,000/year. Parents = public school teacher + nurse.

Your income is low enough to qualify for a Pell grant and you were able to pay the remaining $77K?

[Anonymous]

Why not use the state school option?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get frustrated by people that get so bent out of shape about this.
I get being frustrated by the rich (I say we eat them! ) but the simmering resentment about people at lower incomes disturbs me.

YES!

Class mobility actually helps us all as a society. There is actual value in putting our young adults in learning environments where they experience life and opinions outside the bubble they were raised in. A concern for access to higher education for a highly diverse grop of students is not universaly fair, but actually serves the learning environment for all, by better preparing students to what the full breadth of society is, outside their own limited horizons.

We need to expand the fairness argument and include the rights of academic institutions to create a student body diverse enough for those learning opportunities to occur. It really IS about academic freedom.

As for the middle class, our kids will still go to college. Maybe one university becomes out of reach, but many others provide just the right spot for everyone. There is absolutely no argument that stands when we have such a rich higher education system in the US. This is absolutely NOT the zero-sum game that some media is making it look like.

+1

Yes, class mobility benefits society as a whole. I never understand why people are so upset when someone from much worse off situation gets some help that will likely change their entire trajectory in life, whereas their kids are going to attend college somewhere, just not an $80K/year school---their kid has had a decent life, not worried about being shot each day at home, or where their next meal is coming from, or if they will have internet and electricity to do their homework, etc.
There are affordable schools, you just have to look and have an open mind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do you really feel that they are getting some kind of unfair advantage because they get more money for this one thing, while you have access to more money for... everything else.
….
What bugs me is the griping from people who's kids are exiting high school that seem to suddenly have the huge amount of outrage, and act like this is some kind of new explosive revelation.

I think the issue here is that one family has earned the access to more money, while the other family was given it. That is a really poor comparison.

Then you follow by blaming these people that earned their money for their choices while seemingly ignoring that a low income recipient of free college money are also responsible for their choices and maybe should also deal with the outcomes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. We had to pay almost full private university tuition, except for a tiny Pell grant that was maybe $3000. Current price is almost $80,000/year. Parents = public school teacher + nurse.

Your income is low enough to qualify for a Pell grant and you were able to pay the remaining $77K?

Does not compute

Plus if you only make $140-150K (my guess for teacher and nurse), why the hell would you pay $80K for college per year unless you somehow had it saved? There is no need to do that to yourself. It's a choice you made because you are obsessed with "elite" schools and it's a choice you will have to live with financially for many years to come. But don't kid yourself, it did not have to happen and your kid could attend a great school for much more affordable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I get frustrated by people that get so bent out of shape about this.
I get being frustrated by the rich (I say we eat them! ) but the simmering resentment about people at lower incomes disturbs me.
Yes, you will not qualify for financial aid (or very little financial aid) if you are at a certain income level. But people just throw the word "aid" around like it's just a big present wrapped up in a bow with no strings attached. Yes, some aid is just a grant--essentially free money. You have to be very low income indeed to qualify for that. Would you really want your income to be that low, just for the four years of grant money that your student would be eligible for. Think of the impact that lower income has on every facet of a person's life. Do you really feel that they are getting some kind of unfair advantage because they get more money for this one thing, while you have access to more money for... everything else.

Lots of aid is work study. It's not a free ride--the student has to spend hours of their week doing work. We did not qualify for financial aid, but both of my kids have found part time work while they are in undergrad to offset living expenses. If your student doesn't get officially "work study" you can make your own work study.

Finally there's the financial aid that is loans. Loans are not free money. Loans have to be paid back, and they have to be paid back with interest. That student that got the big aid package is often getting a big loan with it. Yes, it's the "nicer" loan, but it's still a loan. It's still starting off post grad with debt, and because that student is from a lower income family they do not have the "cushion" that a student from a middle class family has.

I'm grateful that we had the means to put a lot of money into a 529 to pay for tuition at state schools. I'm grateful that we are able to continue to put that same amount of money away each month while they are in school to pay for rent/expenses as they finish up. We were able to do this because I used the many, MANY tools that are available to give middle class people a VERY CLEAR picture of the cost of education. Having that knowlege, and having the goal of paying for undergrad for our two children, allowed us to plan accordingly.
-We made it abundantly clear to our kids that we could do in-state tuition (or the equivalent if they somehow won the merit scholarship lottery)
-We live in a modest townhouse
-We have one car
-Our family vacation were in state parks, while some classmates went to Europe

I'm not begrudging people who made different choices. If we had more $$$, heck yeah I'd have done European vacations!
It would also be fun to be able to tell my kids they could go to literally any college they wanted, private or public, that would have them.
It's also fine for people to put a higher value on certain kinds of homes, or activities, and be putting less money away in college savings.
What bugs me is the griping from people who's kids are exiting high school that seem to suddenly have the huge amount of outrage, and act like this is some kind of new explosive revelation.

I agree there's resentment and the college cartel and their enablers are telling us to direct it at the lower income folks while it should be direct at the college cartel. They are for-profit non-profits, pay no taxes (i.e. we subsidize them), government funds a lot of their research (i.e. we pay for their prestige and salaries of several staff), they hoard wealth (i.e. sit on their endowments which should really be used to subsidize tuition for everyone. I know what an endowment means. f' that!), their staff have fantastic job security, fantastic work environment, fantastic pay and we pay for all that through annual tuition increases regardless of whether inflation is zero percent or 10. And please google their salaries and benefits before coming on here and saying they don't get paid enough.