Why the middle class has a huge disadvantage in admissions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just posted this in the UVA thread. It really is an effed up system. People that were careless get rewarded and people that scrimped and saved and built wealth and equity through long hours and sacrifice are expected to drain three entire savings. Their kids end up not going to the elite private universities while their neighbors with no 529s, family wealth so they work at non-profits making little $ since their parents bought their homes and paid for their college have kids that meet the “need based” criteria and go virtually free to Ivies and places like Hopkins. Our system is broken.

It's hard to read your run-on sentence. But I think what you are saying is kids who go to Ivies and Hopkins do so because their parents come from families with money, which allows them to work for low salaries. Is that correct?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just posted this in the UVA thread. It really is an effed up system. People that were careless get rewarded and people that scrimped and saved and built wealth and equity through long hours and sacrifice are expected to drain three entire savings. Their kids end up not going to the elite private universities while their neighbors with no 529s, family wealth so they work at non-profits making little $ since their parents bought their homes and paid for their college have kids that meet the “need based” criteria and go virtually free to Ivies and places like Hopkins. Our system is broken.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The problem for middle class is affordability of colleges unless it is in state universities.
Not rich enough to pay and not poor enough to get financial aid.

Yes disadvantaged for being in the middle..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem for middle class is affordability of colleges unless it is in state universities.
Not rich enough to pay and not poor enough to get financial aid.

Yes disadvantaged for being in the middle..

Yes. So very bright kids that get into these selective privates/ivies can't afford it like kids of lower income that get to go for free. And, many of these families just live in lower cost areas or one of the parents doesn't work. It is very sour to experience it. I either drain my savings or my kid can't do what others of the same grades/scores and advantages life get to do. And, if you choose to go into debt to fund their dream school, you find out that over 50% aren't paying the full price tag like you, many not even close to the full price tag and at many of those privates the kids don't have to pay a dime.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just posted this in the UVA thread. It really is an effed up system. People that were careless get rewarded and people that scrimped and saved and built wealth and equity through long hours and sacrifice are expected to drain three entire savings. Their kids end up not going to the elite private universities while their neighbors with no 529s, family wealth so they work at non-profits making little $ since their parents bought their homes and paid for their college have kids that meet the “need based” criteria and go virtually free to Ivies and places like Hopkins. Our system is broken.

It's hard to read your run-on sentence. But I think what you are saying is kids who go to Ivies and Hopkins do so because their parents come from families with money, which allows them to work for low salaries. Is that correct?

I think PP is saying neighbors hide income or otherwise situate themselves to get aid they don't deserve. Neighbor's kid gets an elite education for free, while the PP can only send kiddo to state.

This seems to be the knee jerk assumption as soon as someone fills out an aid form. But I think they don't begin to know what actually happens. It's only extremely low income that are getting free rides. People who offhand mention they received aid or a merit scholarship, often are not giving out details. These tend to be small coupons and school is still significantly more than the in-state options. These tend to be at lesser schools.

But what people are ignoring, is the article is only partly about aid going to the lower income students. More importantly admission boost go to the wealthy students who have better recommendations and ECs coming out of elite private schools. That's where the real discrepancy is seen. But everyone's just re-hashing their previous gripes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just posted this in the UVA thread. It really is an effed up system. People that were careless get rewarded and people that scrimped and saved and built wealth and equity through long hours and sacrifice are expected to drain three entire savings. Their kids end up not going to the elite private universities while their neighbors with no 529s, family wealth so they work at non-profits making little $ since their parents bought their homes and paid for their college have kids that meet the “need based” criteria and go virtually free to Ivies and places like Hopkins. Our system is broken.

It's hard to read your run-on sentence. But I think what you are saying is kids who go to Ivies and Hopkins do so because their parents come from families with money, which allows them to work for low salaries. Is that correct?

I think PP is saying neighbors hide income or otherwise situate themselves to get aid they don't deserve. Neighbor's kid gets an elite education for free, while the PP can only send kiddo to state.

This seems to be the knee jerk assumption as soon as someone fills out an aid form. But I think they don't begin to know what actually happens. It's only extremely low income that are getting free rides. People who offhand mention they received aid or a merit scholarship, often are not giving out details. These tend to be small coupons and school is still significantly more than the in-state options. These tend to be at lesser schools.

But what people are ignoring, is the article is only partly about aid going to the lower income students. More importantly admission boost go to the wealthy students who have better recommendations and ECs coming out of elite private schools. That's where the real discrepancy is seen. But everyone's just re-hashing their previous gripes.

Not at Ivies, Hopkins, etc. and at UNC if you make 150K or below you go completely free.

Here are some of the Ivy League colleges that offer needs-based free college tuition packages for undergrads:
Princeton University.
Harvard University.
Columbia University.
Yale University.
Brown University.
Cornell University.
Dartmouth College.
University of Pennsylvania.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem for middle class is affordability of colleges unless it is in state universities.
Not rich enough to pay and not poor enough to get financial aid.

Yes disadvantaged for being in the middle..

Yes. So very bright kids that get into these selective privates/ivies can't afford it like kids of lower income that get to go for free. And, many of these families just live in lower cost areas or one of the parents doesn't work. It is very sour to experience it. I either drain my savings or my kid can't do what others of the same grades/scores and advantages life get to do. And, if you choose to go into debt to fund their dream school, you find out that over 50% aren't paying the full price tag like you, many not even close to the full price tag and at many of those privates the kids don't have to pay a dime.

Most kids with those grades/scores don’t even apply to those schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem for middle class is affordability of colleges unless it is in state universities.
Not rich enough to pay and not poor enough to get financial aid.

Yes disadvantaged for being in the middle..

Yes. So very bright kids that get into these selective privates/ivies can't afford it like kids of lower income that get to go for free. And, many of these families just live in lower cost areas or one of the parents doesn't work. It is very sour to experience it. I either drain my savings or my kid can't do what others of the same grades/scores and advantages life get to do. And, if you choose to go into debt to fund their dream school, you find out that over 50% aren't paying the full price tag like you, many not even close to the full price tag and at many of those privates the kids don't have to pay a dime.

But then the brightest kids end up going to the state universities, and the ivies aren't so prestigious anymore. So it all works out. Right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just posted this in the UVA thread. It really is an effed up system. People that were careless get rewarded and people that scrimped and saved and built wealth and equity through long hours and sacrifice are expected to drain three entire savings. Their kids end up not going to the elite private universities while their neighbors with no 529s, family wealth so they work at non-profits making little $ since their parents bought their homes and paid for their college have kids that meet the “need based” criteria and go virtually free to Ivies and places like Hopkins. Our system is broken.

It's hard to read your run-on sentence. But I think what you are saying is kids who go to Ivies and Hopkins do so because their parents come from families with money, which allows them to work for low salaries. Is that correct?

I think PP is saying neighbors hide income or otherwise situate themselves to get aid they don't deserve. Neighbor's kid gets an elite education for free, while the PP can only send kiddo to state.

This seems to be the knee jerk assumption as soon as someone fills out an aid form. But I think they don't begin to know what actually happens. It's only extremely low income that are getting free rides. People who offhand mention they received aid or a merit scholarship, often are not giving out details. These tend to be small coupons and school is still significantly more than the in-state options. These tend to be at lesser schools.

But what people are ignoring, is the article is only partly about aid going to the lower income students. More importantly admission boost go to the wealthy students who have better recommendations and ECs coming out of elite private schools. That's where the real discrepancy is seen. But everyone's just re-hashing their previous gripes.

Not at Ivies, Hopkins, etc. and at UNC if you make 150K or below you go completely free.

Here are some of the Ivy League colleges that offer needs-based free college tuition packages for undergrads:
Princeton University.
Harvard University.
Columbia University.
Yale University.
Brown University.
Cornell University.
Dartmouth College.
University of Pennsylvania.

I realize that, but the article is not simply about how that deal is only offered bellow $150K, it's that families above the poverty level who might be eligible are under admitted, very few are getting this deal. Yet, PP isn't simply mad that the deal exists, she thinks her neighbors have gamed their income and received it. Unlikely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just posted this in the UVA thread. It really is an effed up system. People that were careless get rewarded and people that scrimped and saved and built wealth and equity through long hours and sacrifice are expected to drain three entire savings. Their kids end up not going to the elite private universities while their neighbors with no 529s, family wealth so they work at non-profits making little $ since their parents bought their homes and paid for their college have kids that meet the “need based” criteria and go virtually free to Ivies and places like Hopkins. Our system is broken.

It's hard to read your run-on sentence. But I think what you are saying is kids who go to Ivies and Hopkins do so because their parents come from families with money, which allows them to work for low salaries. Is that correct?

I think PP is saying neighbors hide income or otherwise situate themselves to get aid they don't deserve. Neighbor's kid gets an elite education for free, while the PP can only send kiddo to state.

This seems to be the knee jerk assumption as soon as someone fills out an aid form. But I think they don't begin to know what actually happens. It's only extremely low income that are getting free rides. People who offhand mention they received aid or a merit scholarship, often are not giving out details. These tend to be small coupons and school is still significantly more than the in-state options. These tend to be at lesser schools.

But what people are ignoring, is the article is only partly about aid going to the lower income students. More importantly admission boost go to the wealthy students who have better recommendations and ECs coming out of elite private schools. That's where the real discrepancy is seen. But everyone's just re-hashing their previous gripes.

Not at Ivies, Hopkins, etc. and at UNC if you make 150K or below you go completely free.

Here are some of the Ivy League colleges that offer needs-based free college tuition packages for undergrads:
Princeton University.
Harvard University.
Columbia University.
Yale University.
Brown University.
Cornell University.
Dartmouth College.
University of Pennsylvania.

It's 80K for UNC, not 150K.

https://www.citizen-times.com/story/news/local/2023/07/11/unc-chapel-hill-will-offer-free-tuition-to-some-students-in-2024/70396517007/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just posted this in the UVA thread. It really is an effed up system. People that were careless get rewarded and people that scrimped and saved and built wealth and equity through long hours and sacrifice are expected to drain three entire savings. Their kids end up not going to the elite private universities while their neighbors with no 529s, family wealth so they work at non-profits making little $ since their parents bought their homes and paid for their college have kids that meet the “need based” criteria and go virtually free to Ivies and places like Hopkins. Our system is broken.

Also relevant:
$350-400k in North Arlington or McLean with 2-3 kids makes you a donut hole where spending $85k/year for each of them is a serious burden. That is $680k for two kids for 4 years or a whopping $1,020,000 for 3 kids. With housing costs over $1.5 million (and much more) the closer you get to DC you can see why in-state universities (which VA has many great ones) are such a draw to ppl that would be wealthy in a lower cost state/area, but it’s really effed up that people that started with nothing and worked 70-80 hour weeks to attain that salary are full pay while people with better backgrounds and family help so they didn’t need the high salaries work at non-profits making a 1/4 of that and their kids can go to Ivies for free.

You act like this is a big part of the population but it’s not. It’s a very rare circumstance. You’re so mad it exists (rarely) that you want to blow up the whole system.

I don’t know of anyone in this boat. I have family money/ lower income but we are paying full price.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just posted this in the UVA thread. It really is an effed up system. People that were careless get rewarded and people that scrimped and saved and built wealth and equity through long hours and sacrifice are expected to drain three entire savings. Their kids end up not going to the elite private universities while their neighbors with no 529s, family wealth so they work at non-profits making little $ since their parents bought their homes and paid for their college have kids that meet the “need based” criteria and go virtually free to Ivies and places like Hopkins. Our system is broken.

It's hard to read your run-on sentence. But I think what you are saying is kids who go to Ivies and Hopkins do so because their parents come from families with money, which allows them to work for low salaries. Is that correct?

I think PP is saying neighbors hide income or otherwise situate themselves to get aid they don't deserve. Neighbor's kid gets an elite education for free, while the PP can only send kiddo to state.

This seems to be the knee jerk assumption as soon as someone fills out an aid form. But I think they don't begin to know what actually happens. It's only extremely low income that are getting free rides. People who offhand mention they received aid or a merit scholarship, often are not giving out details. These tend to be small coupons and school is still significantly more than the in-state options. These tend to be at lesser schools.

But what people are ignoring, is the article is only partly about aid going to the lower income students. More importantly admission boost go to the wealthy students who have better recommendations and ECs coming out of elite private schools. That's where the real discrepancy is seen. But everyone's just re-hashing their previous gripes.

Not at Ivies, Hopkins, etc. and at UNC if you make 150K or below you go completely free.

Here are some of the Ivy League colleges that offer needs-based free college tuition packages for undergrads:
Princeton University.
Harvard University.
Columbia University.
Yale University.
Brown University.
Cornell University.
Dartmouth College.
University of Pennsylvania.

No. It’s not completely free. TUITION is free if the family also has assets below a certain amount, but they still have to pay for room and board etc. unless the household income is somewhere between 60k and 100k (cut off level varies among these colleges) and then they go almost completely free (student often still has to contribute)

[Anonymous]

The NYT Daily did an episode related to this the other day. They explain why current admissions help the super rich and the poor, but disadvantage the upper middle class.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/27/podcasts/the-daily/college-legacy-admissions.html?unlocked_article_code=h1KucCPASKvgSMyk1AnQ3wD1s8vlrdVKD21Ju5npLtrijBmkeaYkwAvuxsFMm4RKMdHOoTHQLqgkY5Ly8QqftZJspETlwg8-JbsGEJbPWPvyvYLslqXKGte0NCZbx4ZpfWm1cuVO7qyknQOWlZXySJNQAtaLaRcRDXtD5c9i3i6PJwnY4cWc7Fi9zEsLBqsBC1q--joE20FuVaXITcIie7k68Pt6a_6O3iB0DrAS0Bcrq85qSMFfZIkTZvrFF5Sl6sfjq7acDPzVp6v8W5VQs80UDplVXA6sLWVchQCP4h7JY4iTaej1JxgSaYzU6-yDlNi3GEv6-BN48MJoWtvaCvf1kdD9L6WhvlQNkaEI&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

[Anonymous]

It is frustrating that if you make $250k now, the assumption is that you have been making $250k long enough to save $320k for your child's education. For those of us who only started making that amount of money when our child was in high school (with both parents working all along), that's not realistic.

It's not the end of the world; our child will be fine. But it's quite the bucket of cold water to realize that a whole lot of schools are completely inaccessible to your kid, schools that would have been accessible a few years ago when we made $100k.

And FWIW, I am fully aware that $250K is NOT middle class! It's a great income and we're grateful. But having that income now doesn't magically make $300k of savings appear.

[Anonymous]

What’s the gist of this article/video for those who can’t see it?