AP 3 in a sea of 4/5s

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, this is your fault. You are raising her in a high pressure and competitive environment and it’s not healthy. Why is she discussing AP exam scores with her friends? Why is she devastated over a damned 3? Is this really the way you want to raise her? I guarantee you a few years from now she’s going to be super bitter and blame you.

dp.. please. Kids pick up pressure from each other, not always the parents.

My kid is the exact same as OP's - 3 on APGov, A in the class. DC said they studied a lot. I never pressured DC to get more than a 3. In fact, I told DC that if they fail it, it's not the end of the world. DC took another AP and got a 2. DC cried over both scores because of how hard they studied but still got a bad score.

I comforted DC, and told them that it's possible that the way they studied wasn't really conducive to absorbing what they were reading. I won't go into how they studied, but I told DC that this wasn't the way to do it, but DC wouldn't listen to me.

Also, IMO, grade inflation is not helping. These kids think that because they got an A in the class that they know the material, but grade inflation means that their A may really be a B, and so on. IMO, it makes them over confident, and I think that this is what happened to my DC.

Now DC knows after learning the lesson the hard way - learn to study, and getting an A in the class means nothing. This part I blame the schools.

Not nice to tease like that.

lol.. it basically involved sitting for hours but with a lot of "breaks" in between, and short stints of reviewing and reading. I told DC that at work, when I need to really focus on something, I need at least 2 hours of uninterrupted time to really delve into and absorb the details. The short stints of studying with frequent breaks is not conducive to really absorbing the material, but what can we expect from the generation of tiktok and instant gratification.

Fortunately, DC is only 15 so they have time to learn how to focus... hopefully. I don't know if DC will actually heed my advice, though. They have a short term memory about lessons learned.

People slacked off studying long before TikTok was invented.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, this is your fault. You are raising her in a high pressure and competitive environment and it’s not healthy. Why is she discussing AP exam scores with her friends? Why is she devastated over a damned 3? Is this really the way you want to raise her? I guarantee you a few years from now she’s going to be super bitter and blame you.

dp.. please. Kids pick up pressure from each other, not always the parents.

My kid is the exact same as OP's - 3 on APGov, A in the class. DC said they studied a lot. I never pressured DC to get more than a 3. In fact, I told DC that if they fail it, it's not the end of the world. DC took another AP and got a 2. DC cried over both scores because of how hard they studied but still got a bad score.

I comforted DC, and told them that it's possible that the way they studied wasn't really conducive to absorbing what they were reading. I won't go into how they studied, but I told DC that this wasn't the way to do it, but DC wouldn't listen to me.

Also, IMO, grade inflation is not helping. These kids think that because they got an A in the class that they know the material, but grade inflation means that their A may really be a B, and so on. IMO, it makes them over confident, and I think that this is what happened to my DC.

Now DC knows after learning the lesson the hard way - learn to study, and getting an A in the class means nothing. This part I blame the schools.

Not nice to tease like that.

OP here and I also question DD’s studying efficiency. I don’t think it’s teasing to point out that sometimes our methods need to be modified. I’m not sure DD could have studied harder and she should be very proud of her effort. But reading this thread, including what I wrote, helps me identify that her problem may be more test strategy than preparation.

I think PP meant the tease was not telling us how the kid was studying. In our house it was never cracking the spine on the study guide books, refusing to study in the study room or join any study groups, but to sit at the computer with one screen on the friend chat and the one on a click based study guide. Sometimes, teenagers just need to fail in order to learn the lesson. DC was lucky to get a 3 that way.

Haha! We have the same kids. And yep, they have to learn the hard way.

Honestly, getting a 3 with that kind of studying strategy is a fantastic outcome!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, this is your fault. You are raising her in a high pressure and competitive environment and it’s not healthy. Why is she discussing AP exam scores with her friends? Why is she devastated over a damned 3? Is this really the way you want to raise her? I guarantee you a few years from now she’s going to be super bitter and blame you.

dp.. please. Kids pick up pressure from each other, not always the parents.

My kid is the exact same as OP's - 3 on APGov, A in the class. DC said they studied a lot. I never pressured DC to get more than a 3. In fact, I told DC that if they fail it, it's not the end of the world. DC took another AP and got a 2. DC cried over both scores because of how hard they studied but still got a bad score.

I comforted DC, and told them that it's possible that the way they studied wasn't really conducive to absorbing what they were reading. I won't go into how they studied, but I told DC that this wasn't the way to do it, but DC wouldn't listen to me.

Also, IMO, grade inflation is not helping. These kids think that because they got an A in the class that they know the material, but grade inflation means that their A may really be a B, and so on. IMO, it makes them over confident, and I think that this is what happened to my DC.

Now DC knows after learning the lesson the hard way - learn to study, and getting an A in the class means nothing. This part I blame the schools.

Not nice to tease like that.

lol.. it basically involved sitting for hours but with a lot of "breaks" in between, and short stints of reviewing and reading. I told DC that at work, when I need to really focus on something, I need at least 2 hours of uninterrupted time to really delve into and absorb the details. The short stints of studying with frequent breaks is not conducive to really absorbing the material, but what can we expect from the generation of tiktok and instant gratification.

Fortunately, DC is only 15 so they have time to learn how to focus... hopefully. I don't know if DC will actually heed my advice, though. They have a short term memory about lessons learned.

People slacked off studying long before TikTok was invented.

In MY day, we had to work harder at slacking off!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teacher here. Some of my strongest students in my AP classes are terrible test takers. I’ve never considered a score to be a solid indicator of college readiness. I have 20 years of experience watching average test takers (but great students) move on to strong colleges and advanced degrees. I have a relative with two masters and a PhD (all from great colleges) and he bombed the SAT and the GRE.

My own child just scored a 2 on one of his exams. I’m not that upset, and neither is he. He’ll be prepared for college and that score isn’t going to keep him out.

Genuine Question: How can someone be a strong student and a "terrible test taker"? Part of being a strong student involves demonstrating mastery of the subject matter. If you bomb all the tests and quizzes, then how are they demonstrating mastery?

That's like saying, "I'm an incredible actor. I just have terrible stage fright and freeze up on stage." You can't be a great actor if you can't perform when the spotlight is on....

And if you're not good at taking tests due to emotional/mental needs, a strong student should be self-aware and ensure they have the appropriate accommodations to compensate for that?

I’m the teacher PP.

There are many, many ways to demonstrate content knowledge. Multiple choice questions and formatted essays aren’t the only way. I actually prefer choice and project-based assignments for that very reason. I can actually see what my students know, and not what they memorized. (… and I am a highly regarded teacher who takes assessment methods courses on my own time each summer.)

People take test prep sessions to learn the skills associated with taking a test… the strategy. I have also had mediocre students who are good at test strategy.

I don’t see a clear correlation between high test scores and high performance.

Maybe there's not a 1:1 correlation between high test scores and high performance, but there's no way they're totally uncorrelated.

And while it's nice that you favor project-based assignments, they come with their own tradeoffs and downsides.

What's your solution? Just get rid of the AP exams altogether because....you don't like them? Or you think they're unreliable barometers of student knowledge and success?

Project-based assessments are very subjective, which opens up all kinds of biases and inconsistencies so I don't see trading one for the other as really solving the problem.

So, why bother trying to get it right when we can get it reliably wrong?

I don't think a mindset that rigidly says "All tests are bad so we should get rid of them" does anyone any good, nor does it pass the common sense test.

Well, then it's a good thing nobody has said that.

So what's your solution? Or what do you see as the problem with AP Exams?

You are responding to multiple posters. Why would there even need to be one single solution?

So we should do a decision tree with multiple mastery evaluation options for every kid? That sounds untenable.

That’s because it is. They can’t tailor college readiness or mastery of material to each individual student. So they use something like test scores as a benchmark. It’s not going to change any time soon.

It is changing.

https://www.usnews.com/education/articles/how-important-are-sat-act-scores-in-college-admissions

[Anonymous]

What's ridiculous about AP you get this opaque score back and you got no idea of what you got right or got wrong.

I remember on the PSAT years ago I got back my actual answer sheet to see exactly what I got wrong.

[Anonymous]

OP, a 3 is fine. A lesson to start learning right now is that she doesn't have to discuss her grades and scores with her friends. I know it's hard, but preserving some privacy might help her in the long run.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A 3 on an AP exam is passing and gets credit at many, many colleges. I wish your kid got a 5 as well, but wow. It isn't like they failed out of school. Questioning college readiness because they took a college test in HS and passed?

I need to log off.

My DD got a 3 and I was thrilled. It is her first exam. over 30% got a 1 or 2. Breathe.

Same. My kid got an A- in her AP classes and scored 3s. She’s fine and so are we. She does well in class and crappy on standardized tests. Outgoing kid who’s comfortable with herself. I feel lucky to have such a well-adjusted kid.

She’s plans to apply to an Ivy this fall and has a really good shot. And if she doesn’t get in, she knows she will land somewhere else where she’ll be fine.

Ha ha if you really think your A- /3s kid has a “really good shot” at an Ivy. She has almost zero shot. Do you live under a rock?

All will be revealed. I’ll let you know how it turns out. You have an awesome day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teacher here. Some of my strongest students in my AP classes are terrible test takers. I’ve never considered a score to be a solid indicator of college readiness. I have 20 years of experience watching average test takers (but great students) move on to strong colleges and advanced degrees. I have a relative with two masters and a PhD (all from great colleges) and he bombed the SAT and the GRE.

My own child just scored a 2 on one of his exams. I’m not that upset, and neither is he. He’ll be prepared for college and that score isn’t going to keep him out.

Genuine Question: How can someone be a strong student and a "terrible test taker"? Part of being a strong student involves demonstrating mastery of the subject matter. If you bomb all the tests and quizzes, then how are they demonstrating mastery?

That's like saying, "I'm an incredible actor. I just have terrible stage fright and freeze up on stage." You can't be a great actor if you can't perform when the spotlight is on....

And if you're not good at taking tests due to emotional/mental needs, a strong student should be self-aware and ensure they have the appropriate accommodations to compensate for that?

I’m the teacher PP.

There are many, many ways to demonstrate content knowledge. Multiple choice questions and formatted essays aren’t the only way. I actually prefer choice and project-based assignments for that very reason. I can actually see what my students know, and not what they memorized. (… and I am a highly regarded teacher who takes assessment methods courses on my own time each summer.)

People take test prep sessions to learn the skills associated with taking a test… the strategy. I have also had mediocre students who are good at test strategy.

I don’t see a clear correlation between high test scores and high performance.

Maybe there's not a 1:1 correlation between high test scores and high performance, but there's no way they're totally uncorrelated.

And while it's nice that you favor project-based assignments, they come with their own tradeoffs and downsides.

What's your solution? Just get rid of the AP exams altogether because....you don't like them? Or you think they're unreliable barometers of student knowledge and success?

Project-based assessments are very subjective, which opens up all kinds of biases and inconsistencies so I don't see trading one for the other as really solving the problem.

You’re simply being hyperbolic. Did I suggest… or even remotely imply… that we should get rid of AP tests? No, I didn’t. They are one data point.

I’m not sure why it’s a threatening notion that there are educators (many of us) who don’t put all of our eggs in a high-stakes test basket.

I get more valuable data regarding my students’ progress from project based assessments. I’m able to get a better handle on an individual student’s strengths and setbacks this way. I spend a ton of time doing this. I suppose I can throw an old AP test their way, which would save me a ton of time. I wouldn’t be serving the students nearly as well, though.

I actually value learning, the joy of learning, and the retention of knowledge. I don’t value high-stakes multiple choice assessments as much. I don’t think of my students as scores.

I suspect you care a lot about scores. Have at it. They are a great way to get into colleges. Just know they aren’t the only way. I’ve taught over 3,200 students so far in my career. I’ve learned not to base a student’s success off a test score. Good thing, too, since many mediocre test takers went on to be tremendously successful.

You're painting me with the same hyperbolic brush you're accusing me of.

I never said tests were the only thing that mattered. But I do think they're an important part of the learning process and students who struggle or fail at them should not be brushed aside and just chalked up to "some kids don't test well."

That's the main point I was making, as that line of talk and thinking seems to be more prevalent among parents and teachers and I don't think it's healthy or helpful to kids. It gives kids an out and an excuse from getting better at tests because some educators, like yourself, give them a hall pass that maybe they're just not a good test taker.

We should be teaching kids to develop the self-awareness to figure out why they're doing poorly on the test and implement strategies and tactics to overcome the hurdles and obstacles that are preventing them from doing well on the tests. It's called developing resilience and it's severely lacking in students today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What's ridiculous about AP you get this opaque score back and you got no idea of what you got right or got wrong.

I remember on the PSAT years ago I got back my actual answer sheet to see exactly what I got wrong.

I agree. Kids should get the marked up AP exam back so they can see what they did wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teacher here. Some of my strongest students in my AP classes are terrible test takers. I’ve never considered a score to be a solid indicator of college readiness. I have 20 years of experience watching average test takers (but great students) move on to strong colleges and advanced degrees. I have a relative with two masters and a PhD (all from great colleges) and he bombed the SAT and the GRE.

My own child just scored a 2 on one of his exams. I’m not that upset, and neither is he. He’ll be prepared for college and that score isn’t going to keep him out.

Genuine Question: How can someone be a strong student and a "terrible test taker"? Part of being a strong student involves demonstrating mastery of the subject matter. If you bomb all the tests and quizzes, then how are they demonstrating mastery?

That's like saying, "I'm an incredible actor. I just have terrible stage fright and freeze up on stage." You can't be a great actor if you can't perform when the spotlight is on....

And if you're not good at taking tests due to emotional/mental needs, a strong student should be self-aware and ensure they have the appropriate accommodations to compensate for that?

I’m the teacher PP.

There are many, many ways to demonstrate content knowledge. Multiple choice questions and formatted essays aren’t the only way. I actually prefer choice and project-based assignments for that very reason. I can actually see what my students know, and not what they memorized. (… and I am a highly regarded teacher who takes assessment methods courses on my own time each summer.)

People take test prep sessions to learn the skills associated with taking a test… the strategy. I have also had mediocre students who are good at test strategy.

I don’t see a clear correlation between high test scores and high performance.

Maybe there's not a 1:1 correlation between high test scores and high performance, but there's no way they're totally uncorrelated.

And while it's nice that you favor project-based assignments, they come with their own tradeoffs and downsides.

What's your solution? Just get rid of the AP exams altogether because....you don't like them? Or you think they're unreliable barometers of student knowledge and success?

Project-based assessments are very subjective, which opens up all kinds of biases and inconsistencies so I don't see trading one for the other as really solving the problem.

So, why bother trying to get it right when we can get it reliably wrong?

I don't think a mindset that rigidly says "All tests are bad so we should get rid of them" does anyone any good, nor does it pass the common sense test.

Well, then it's a good thing nobody has said that.

So what's your solution? Or what do you see as the problem with AP Exams?

You are responding to multiple posters. Why would there even need to be one single solution?

So we should do a decision tree with multiple mastery evaluation options for every kid? That sounds untenable.

That’s because it is. They can’t tailor college readiness or mastery of material to each individual student. So they use something like test scores as a benchmark. It’s not going to change any time soon.

It is changing.

https://www.usnews.com/education/articles/how-important-are-sat-act-scores-in-college-admissions

However, that's for admissions, not credit.

That works for admissions because schools aren't worried about the exact academics qualifications of admits, and are happy to accept the students who succeeded relative to their local environment and opportunity.

Colleges have a lot of flexibility in how they educate students with different levels of preparation, once they arrive.

For grading student work in boilerplate intro classes with hundreds of students, tests continue to dominate.

[Anonymous]

To the pp whose kid left entire sections blank on PSAT/SAT. NEVER leave blank answers. If they’re running out of time, they need to pick a letter (A,B,C, or D) and fill in all the blank bubbles with (B). More than a few will be correct. These tests are all about beating the clock. They need to do practice tests under the exact time constraints as a real test. After a few, they should see a pattern of the same mistakes. Work on those until they fully understand the correct answers. Take another practice test, and another, and another… Also, if time and anxiety are significantly causing them to underperform on standardized tests, get an evaluation and accommodations ASAP. Easier said than done, but try.

As far as the APUSH AP exam goes, they have plenty of time, but the DBQs have to be succinct and directly answered (teachers should be pounding parts 1,2,3,4 into their brains). My kid (3 years ago) got hung up on one of the illustrations which he said was so vague that none of the questions made sense. A lot of kids complained about that exam in 2020. Physics too, holy moly. Of course, they weren’t prepared for all AP exams to be online due to pandemic. Was a shłt show. Plus chasing down SAT centers only to be canceled the day before. Teachers were sending sympathy + pep talk emails. DS is now a very successful rising junior at one of his top choices. On his 3rd internship full time, and knocking out a core course in 5 weeks (asynchronous). Do not doubt your kids! They will be fine in college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A 3 on an AP exam is passing and gets credit at many, many colleges. I wish your kid got a 5 as well, but wow. It isn't like they failed out of school. Questioning college readiness because they took a college test in HS and passed?

I need to log off.

My DD got a 3 and I was thrilled. It is her first exam. over 30% got a 1 or 2. Breathe.

Same. My kid got an A- in her AP classes and scored 3s. She’s fine and so are we. She does well in class and crappy on standardized tests. Outgoing kid who’s comfortable with herself. I feel lucky to have such a well-adjusted kid.

She’s plans to apply to an Ivy this fall and has a really good shot. And if she doesn’t get in, she knows she will land somewhere else where she’ll be fine.

Ha ha if you really think your A- /3s kid has a “really good shot” at an Ivy. She has almost zero shot. Do you live under a rock?

All will be revealed. I’ll let you know how it turns out. You have an awesome day.

Just FYI if she gets in (and I hope she does!) it’s not because she had a good shot. Hardly anyone has a good shot. If she gets in it’s because she got lucky.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teacher here. Some of my strongest students in my AP classes are terrible test takers. I’ve never considered a score to be a solid indicator of college readiness. I have 20 years of experience watching average test takers (but great students) move on to strong colleges and advanced degrees. I have a relative with two masters and a PhD (all from great colleges) and he bombed the SAT and the GRE.

My own child just scored a 2 on one of his exams. I’m not that upset, and neither is he. He’ll be prepared for college and that score isn’t going to keep him out.

Genuine Question: How can someone be a strong student and a "terrible test taker"? Part of being a strong student involves demonstrating mastery of the subject matter. If you bomb all the tests and quizzes, then how are they demonstrating mastery?

That's like saying, "I'm an incredible actor. I just have terrible stage fright and freeze up on stage." You can't be a great actor if you can't perform when the spotlight is on....

And if you're not good at taking tests due to emotional/mental needs, a strong student should be self-aware and ensure they have the appropriate accommodations to compensate for that?

I’m the teacher PP.

There are many, many ways to demonstrate content knowledge. Multiple choice questions and formatted essays aren’t the only way. I actually prefer choice and project-based assignments for that very reason. I can actually see what my students know, and not what they memorized. (… and I am a highly regarded teacher who takes assessment methods courses on my own time each summer.)

People take test prep sessions to learn the skills associated with taking a test… the strategy. I have also had mediocre students who are good at test strategy.

I don’t see a clear correlation between high test scores and high performance.

Maybe there's not a 1:1 correlation between high test scores and high performance, but there's no way they're totally uncorrelated.

And while it's nice that you favor project-based assignments, they come with their own tradeoffs and downsides.

What's your solution? Just get rid of the AP exams altogether because....you don't like them? Or you think they're unreliable barometers of student knowledge and success?

Project-based assessments are very subjective, which opens up all kinds of biases and inconsistencies so I don't see trading one for the other as really solving the problem.

You’re simply being hyperbolic. Did I suggest… or even remotely imply… that we should get rid of AP tests? No, I didn’t. They are one data point.

I’m not sure why it’s a threatening notion that there are educators (many of us) who don’t put all of our eggs in a high-stakes test basket.

I get more valuable data regarding my students’ progress from project based assessments. I’m able to get a better handle on an individual student’s strengths and setbacks this way. I spend a ton of time doing this. I suppose I can throw an old AP test their way, which would save me a ton of time. I wouldn’t be serving the students nearly as well, though.

I actually value learning, the joy of learning, and the retention of knowledge. I don’t value high-stakes multiple choice assessments as much. I don’t think of my students as scores.

I suspect you care a lot about scores. Have at it. They are a great way to get into colleges. Just know they aren’t the only way. I’ve taught over 3,200 students so far in my career. I’ve learned not to base a student’s success off a test score. Good thing, too, since many mediocre test takers went on to be tremendously successful.

You're painting me with the same hyperbolic brush you're accusing me of.

I never said tests were the only thing that mattered. But I do think they're an important part of the learning process and students who struggle or fail at them should not be brushed aside and just chalked up to "some kids don't test well."

That's the main point I was making, as that line of talk and thinking seems to be more prevalent among parents and teachers and I don't think it's healthy or helpful to kids. It gives kids an out and an excuse from getting better at tests because some educators, like yourself, give them a hall pass that maybe they're just not a good test taker.

We should be teaching kids to develop the self-awareness to figure out why they're doing poorly on the test and implement strategies and tactics to overcome the hurdles and obstacles that are preventing them from doing well on the tests. It's called developing resilience and it's severely lacking in students today.

Soft skills like resiliency can be taught through essay revisions, project feedback, etc. Self awareness doesn’t need to be merely linked to test taking skills.

I agree these traits are lacking in students. I disagree that objective multiple choice tests are the way to teach them (or remotely the best way).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. DD is a rising junior. She has accommodations for anxiety. She works hard and is an excellent student. Her AP Gov teacher told her an essay she wrote was the best he’d ever read. I’m sure the essay portion was fine, but multiple choice tests kill her. She doubts herself, panics, changes answers. When she bombed her PSAT, she skipped entire sections. She even failed her learners’ permit test. Twice. I don’t know how to help her with this skill.

She's only in 10th grade. A 3 is a good score at this point. I don't know why these public schools want everyone to take AP tests starting in 9th grade. My kid's school does a lot of gatekeeping with AP classes so by the time kids take them, they are actually prepared and mostly getting 4s and 5s.

She can apply test optional for college so don't worry about that. My kid did and got in everywhere he applied with much better merit aid than I expected.

He failed his learner's once because he barely studied and his driving test twice. None of that matters because he has had his license for two years and hasn't had any accidents or tickets while his friends who passed on the first try have gotten tickets and had accidents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teacher here. Some of my strongest students in my AP classes are terrible test takers. I’ve never considered a score to be a solid indicator of college readiness. I have 20 years of experience watching average test takers (but great students) move on to strong colleges and advanced degrees. I have a relative with two masters and a PhD (all from great colleges) and he bombed the SAT and the GRE.

My own child just scored a 2 on one of his exams. I’m not that upset, and neither is he. He’ll be prepared for college and that score isn’t going to keep him out.

Genuine Question: How can someone be a strong student and a "terrible test taker"? Part of being a strong student involves demonstrating mastery of the subject matter. If you bomb all the tests and quizzes, then how are they demonstrating mastery?

That's like saying, "I'm an incredible actor. I just have terrible stage fright and freeze up on stage." You can't be a great actor if you can't perform when the spotlight is on....

And if you're not good at taking tests due to emotional/mental needs, a strong student should be self-aware and ensure they have the appropriate accommodations to compensate for that?

I’m the teacher PP.

There are many, many ways to demonstrate content knowledge. Multiple choice questions and formatted essays aren’t the only way. I actually prefer choice and project-based assignments for that very reason. I can actually see what my students know, and not what they memorized. (… and I am a highly regarded teacher who takes assessment methods courses on my own time each summer.)

People take test prep sessions to learn the skills associated with taking a test… the strategy. I have also had mediocre students who are good at test strategy.

I don’t see a clear correlation between high test scores and high performance.

Maybe there's not a 1:1 correlation between high test scores and high performance, but there's no way they're totally uncorrelated.

And while it's nice that you favor project-based assignments, they come with their own tradeoffs and downsides.

What's your solution? Just get rid of the AP exams altogether because....you don't like them? Or you think they're unreliable barometers of student knowledge and success?

Project-based assessments are very subjective, which opens up all kinds of biases and inconsistencies so I don't see trading one for the other as really solving the problem.

You’re simply being hyperbolic. Did I suggest… or even remotely imply… that we should get rid of AP tests? No, I didn’t. They are one data point.

I’m not sure why it’s a threatening notion that there are educators (many of us) who don’t put all of our eggs in a high-stakes test basket.

I get more valuable data regarding my students’ progress from project based assessments. I’m able to get a better handle on an individual student’s strengths and setbacks this way. I spend a ton of time doing this. I suppose I can throw an old AP test their way, which would save me a ton of time. I wouldn’t be serving the students nearly as well, though.

I actually value learning, the joy of learning, and the retention of knowledge. I don’t value high-stakes multiple choice assessments as much. I don’t think of my students as scores.

I suspect you care a lot about scores. Have at it. They are a great way to get into colleges. Just know they aren’t the only way. I’ve taught over 3,200 students so far in my career. I’ve learned not to base a student’s success off a test score. Good thing, too, since many mediocre test takers went on to be tremendously successful.

You're painting me with the same hyperbolic brush you're accusing me of.

I never said tests were the only thing that mattered. But I do think they're an important part of the learning process and students who struggle or fail at them should not be brushed aside and just chalked up to "some kids don't test well."

That's the main point I was making, as that line of talk and thinking seems to be more prevalent among parents and teachers and I don't think it's healthy or helpful to kids. It gives kids an out and an excuse from getting better at tests because some educators, like yourself, give them a hall pass that maybe they're just not a good test taker.

We should be teaching kids to develop the self-awareness to figure out why they're doing poorly on the test and implement strategies and tactics to overcome the hurdles and obstacles that are preventing them from doing well on the tests. It's called developing resilience and it's severely lacking in students today.

Soft skills like resiliency can be taught through essay revisions, project feedback, etc. Self awareness doesn’t need to be merely linked to test taking skills.

I agree these traits are lacking in students. I disagree that objective multiple choice tests are the way to teach them (or remotely the best way).

You say this as if tests are the only way students get evaluated throughout a class. They aren't. Throughout the course of any given class, there's a mixture of the exact things you mention (essays, projects, classwork, homework, etc.), which yes, does include tests. So that's already happening, which means kids are being evaluated on more than just tests?

Or is it that you specifically think the AP Exam itself is what's broken, because it is a multiple choice test? If so, what would you replace it with?

Also, doesn't throwing out tests harm the kids who are good at them and work hard to succeed at them? Why is their success invalidated to validate those who are "bad test takers"?