Court: TJ's New Admission Policy Does Not Discriminate

Anonymous
Since admissions, are competitive per MS now, are the schools going to become competitive and treacherous as families undermine each other to get ahead?

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I’m so glad that the Court dug into Asra’s lame attempt to turn the text messages and emails into “the TJ papers”.

The depths of her bad faith know no bounds. An embarrassment to her family - including, quite publicly, her son - her race, her community, her profession, and the institutions that have employed and continue to employ her.

Sadly, her attempts to burn everything to the ground will have her laughing all the way to the bank, but at what cost?


A district court and one appellate judge on the three-member 4th Circuit panel agreed with the Coalition’s claims. If the case reaches the Supreme Court, the 4th Circuit decision stands a good chance of being reversed. Realistically, everyone involved in this litigation knew there would be multiple appeals.


1) That’s a big, big if. It’s a weak case, full stop. It’s hard to see how the Supreme Court benefits at all from granting cert in this case.

2) The Court already had a shot at this when the Coalition requested that the 4th Circuit’s original stay back at this time last year be vacated. They voted 6-3 not to vacate, leaving the process up and running for the Class of 2026. Not much has changed since then.


Alito, Thomas, Barrett, Gorsuch - that’s enough to grant cert right there.


Barrett wasn’t interested last time.


She’d just been confirmed and it would have been more aggressive to effectively pre-empt the 4th Circuit than to let the 4th Circuit rule on the merits and then take up the case. But she might pass again. The facts are ugly and the majority opinion of the 4th Circuit conveniently glosses over them but bad facts don’t necessarily make for good law.


Precisely which facts are ugly?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The Harvard and UNC cases represent much easier angles of attack on affirmative action than this case.

I think in reality, we’ll have to see the reasoning for how those cases are decided before we have a good idea if this one will be taken up.

Those who wish to reestablish the old status quo would be better served turning their attention to the School Board elections - those will be decided LONG before the Supreme Court even decides whether to take this up. But the GOP nominated a confirmed wife-beater to one of their most accessible seats, so…


The FCPS School Board is probably a lost cause but it’s telling that the state - which has the final say over Governor’s Schools - filed an amicus brief supporting the Coalition.


The state is welcome to act in any way they want to whenever they want. I think it’s more telling that nearly 18 months into the Youngkin administration, with all of the promises they made to the Indian community in Northern Virginia, there’s been no action from them AT ALL.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I’m so glad that the Court dug into Asra’s lame attempt to turn the text messages and emails into “the TJ papers”.

The depths of her bad faith know no bounds. An embarrassment to her family - including, quite publicly, her son - her race, her community, her profession, and the institutions that have employed and continue to employ her.

Sadly, her attempts to burn everything to the ground will have her laughing all the way to the bank, but at what cost?


A district court and one appellate judge on the three-member 4th Circuit panel agreed with the Coalition’s claims. If the case reaches the Supreme Court, the 4th Circuit decision stands a good chance of being reversed. Realistically, everyone involved in this litigation knew there would be multiple appeals.


1) That’s a big, big if. It’s a weak case, full stop. It’s hard to see how the Supreme Court benefits at all from granting cert in this case.

2) The Court already had a shot at this when the Coalition requested that the 4th Circuit’s original stay back at this time last year be vacated. They voted 6-3 not to vacate, leaving the process up and running for the Class of 2026. Not much has changed since then.


Alito, Thomas, Barrett, Gorsuch - that’s enough to grant cert right there.


Barrett wasn’t interested last time.


She’d just been confirmed and it would have been more aggressive to effectively pre-empt the 4th Circuit than to let the 4th Circuit rule on the merits and then take up the case. But she might pass again. The facts are ugly and the majority opinion of the 4th Circuit conveniently glosses over them but bad facts don’t necessarily make for good law.


Precisely which facts are ugly?


The modeling intended to produce desired racial outcomes and internal emails and text messages among SB members acknowledging the anti-Asian sentiment.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I’m so glad that the Court dug into Asra’s lame attempt to turn the text messages and emails into “the TJ papers”.

The depths of her bad faith know no bounds. An embarrassment to her family - including, quite publicly, her son - her race, her community, her profession, and the institutions that have employed and continue to employ her.

Sadly, her attempts to burn everything to the ground will have her laughing all the way to the bank, but at what cost?


A district court and one appellate judge on the three-member 4th Circuit panel agreed with the Coalition’s claims. If the case reaches the Supreme Court, the 4th Circuit decision stands a good chance of being reversed. Realistically, everyone involved in this litigation knew there would be multiple appeals.


1) That’s a big, big if. It’s a weak case, full stop. It’s hard to see how the Supreme Court benefits at all from granting cert in this case.

2) The Court already had a shot at this when the Coalition requested that the 4th Circuit’s original stay back at this time last year be vacated. They voted 6-3 not to vacate, leaving the process up and running for the Class of 2026. Not much has changed since then.


Alito, Thomas, Barrett, Gorsuch - that’s enough to grant cert right there.


Barrett wasn’t interested last time.


She’d just been confirmed and it would have been more aggressive to effectively pre-empt the 4th Circuit than to let the 4th Circuit rule on the merits and then take up the case. But she might pass again. The facts are ugly and the majority opinion of the 4th Circuit conveniently glosses over them but bad facts don’t necessarily make for good law.


Precisely which facts are ugly?


The modeling intended to produce desired racial outcomes and internal emails and text messages among SB members acknowledging the anti-Asian sentiment.


The modeling came from Brabrand and was in relation to a policy (the merit lottery) that the School Board rejected. Brabrand isn’t on trial here - as much as perhaps he should be.

The internal text messages were basically the School Board members talking amongst themselves about what a bad idea the merit lottery would be (because of the perception issues) and how out of touch Brabrand was.

If this matter were Coalition v. Brabrand, you’d have a point. It is not, so you (and by proxy the Coalition) do not.
Anonymous
Brabrand was trying to work himself back into the good graces of the School Board. Just because he failed doesn’t mean that staff wasn’t largely doing the bidding of the School Board, and it was SB members like Pekarsky, Omeish, and Sizemore Heizer who penned emails and text messages that several judges viewed as admissions of discriminatory intent.

It will be interesting to see the upcoming decisions in the Harvard and UNC cases. The facts are different but the reasoning may provide the Coalition’s lawyers with some ammunition. Stated simply, this ain’t over yet, even though the number of people who actually care about TJ seems to continue to decline.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Brabrand was trying to work himself back into the good graces of the School Board. Just because he failed doesn’t mean that staff wasn’t largely doing the bidding of the School Board, and it was SB members like Pekarsky, Omeish, and Sizemore Heizer who penned emails and text messages that several judges viewed as admissions of discriminatory intent.

It will be interesting to see the upcoming decisions in the Harvard and UNC cases. The facts are different but the reasoning may provide the Coalition’s lawyers with some ammunition. Stated simply, this ain’t over yet, even though the number of people who actually care about TJ seems to continue to decline.


You didn’t make a point in that first paragraph word salad. The narrative you’re pushing is Asra’s, not reality’s.

The discriminatory intent you’re referencing - importantly, and AGAIN - is Brabrand’s. And is immaterial to this conversation. Which part of that fact is challenging to you?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:I’m so glad that the Court dug into Asra’s lame attempt to turn the text messages and emails into “the TJ papers”.

The depths of her bad faith know no bounds. An embarrassment to her family - including, quite publicly, her son - her race, her community, her profession, and the institutions that have employed and continue to employ her.

Sadly, her attempts to burn everything to the ground will have her laughing all the way to the bank, but at what cost?


+1 trillion
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Brabrand was trying to work himself back into the good graces of the School Board. Just because he failed doesn’t mean that staff wasn’t largely doing the bidding of the School Board, and it was SB members like Pekarsky, Omeish, and Sizemore Heizer who penned emails and text messages that several judges viewed as admissions of discriminatory intent.

It will be interesting to see the upcoming decisions in the Harvard and UNC cases. The facts are different but the reasoning may provide the Coalition’s lawyers with some ammunition. Stated simply, this ain’t over yet, even though the number of people who actually care about TJ seems to continue to decline.


You didn’t make a point in that first paragraph word salad. The narrative you’re pushing is Asra’s, not reality’s.

The discriminatory intent you’re referencing - importantly, and AGAIN - is Brabrand’s. And is immaterial to this conversation. Which part of that fact is challenging to you?


So important. Brabrand was a complete boob in this entire process but Nomani’s creative cut and paste made it look like the conversations were about something they weren’t. No one liked the Merit Lottery, including the School Board. The “tJ pApErS” were always nonsense.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Who would possibly think the new policy discriminates? Families are free to choose where to live knowing the policy exists. If they want to continue to cram into the same three middle schools, that’s on them.




Say all black students were in one middle school, and these students were getting 50% of the seats, and then they adopted a policy of an equal number of seats from each middle school. I don't think the argument 'just move to another school' would fly.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Just.wait.for.the.Supreme.Court.

The appeals court decided 2-1 as per party lines. 2 Obama appointees - 1 Trump appointee.

The Supreme Court is differently constituted.

So hold your horses and your anti- Asian diatribes.

It ain’t over till it’s over.


If a new school were opened and they used the current TJ admissions policy, it would not be considered racially discriminatory. The bigger problem is even if they are selecting Asians, they are not selecting the top Asian students within a school, though this might be different at the big feeders. TJ is missing out on many top students.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Who would possibly think the new policy discriminates? Families are free to choose where to live knowing the policy exists. If they want to continue to cram into the same three middle schools, that’s on them.




Say all black students were in one middle school, and these students were getting 50% of the seats, and then they adopted a policy of an equal number of seats from each middle school. I don't think the argument 'just move to another school' would fly.


Bad analogy. Carson was neither all (or even majority) Asian nor did all Asian students go to Carson.

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Oh boy, this is really going to piss off all the Annandale Asians.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2023...sions-policy-upheld/


That post that tells me you don't know much about the current demographics in Fairfax.

The "Annandale Asians" were a beneficiary of the TJ admissions changes. They attend middle schools - Frost, Glasgow, Holmes, and Poe - that were either AAP centers that didn't send many kids to TJ compared to the top three (Frost and Glasgow) or sent next to no students to TJ (Holmes and Poe). They are beneficiaries of the change.

The Asian families whose kids saw reduced access to TJ were primarily at Carson, Cooper, Longfellow, and Rocky Run, as well as at a few middle schools in Ashburn. Most of the plaintiffs in the TJ lawsuit were kids or parents of kids at these schools, none of which are in Annandale.

The number of Asian parents still highly agitated about the TJ admissions changes - those behind the "Coalition for TJ" - are relatively small in number. Many still hope their kids will attend TJ, but some are losing interest in TJ (including Loudoun parents now more interested in the Loudoun magnet); others also hedge their bets by moving into HS pyramids like Chantilly, Langley, McLean, and Oakton. While these schools can't offer everything that TJ can, they are very strong.

Also, insofar as the court case goes, the Coalition for TJ always expected Hilton's ruling to get reversed by the 4th Circuit. Their hope has always been that the Supreme Court, which is more conservative than the 4th Circuit, would agree to hear the case, but that's a crap shoot (the chances of getting the Supreme Court to grant certiorari and hear the case are a crap shoot, just like getting into TJ is).


This. It is by no means a slam dunk that SCOTUS grants cert in this case. The facts of it are far weaker for creating conservative precedent than Harvard or UNC.

The weakness of Hilton’s original opinion and the ease with which Heytens and King have drilled it into oblivion would have to give them pause.

Even Rushing’s dissent was halfhearted at best and not at the usual level of her reasoning.


I took the fact that Heytens issued a separate concurring opinion and Rushing issued a strong dissent as an indication that each thought the chances of the Supreme Court granting cert were reasonably strong and were trying to frame the issues as they would hope them to be seen by the Supreme Court, with Heytens focusing on broader policy issues that might lead the Court to decide not to grant cert and Rushing focusing on the bad facts suggesting discriminatory intent that the majority opinion glossed over entirely.



King argues that the district's courts temporal analysis was wrong and would simply turn “the previous status quo into an immutable quota." But Rushing relies on the same temporal analysis as the basis for evidence of discrimination. These seem in conflict with each other? Can better lawyers opine on this?


They are in conflict. They also had different decisions. King presumably doesn't say the analysis was wrong, but the use of the analysis was wrong.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Just.wait.for.the.Supreme.Court.

The appeals court decided 2-1 as per party lines. 2 Obama appointees - 1 Trump appointee.

The Supreme Court is differently constituted.

So hold your horses and your anti- Asian diatribes.

It ain’t over till it’s over.


If a new school were opened and they used the current TJ admissions policy, it would not be considered racially discriminatory. The bigger problem is even if they are selecting Asians, they are not selecting the top Asian students within a school, though this might be different at the big feeders. TJ is missing out on many top students.


TJ has always missed out on many top students. It’s just missing out on a (VERY) slightly different group of them now.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I’m so glad that the Court dug into Asra’s lame attempt to turn the text messages and emails into “the TJ papers”.

The depths of her bad faith know no bounds. An embarrassment to her family - including, quite publicly, her son - her race, her community, her profession, and the institutions that have employed and continue to employ her.

Sadly, her attempts to burn everything to the ground will have her laughing all the way to the bank, but at what cost?


A district court and one appellate judge on the three-member 4th Circuit panel agreed with the Coalition’s claims. If the case reaches the Supreme Court, the 4th Circuit decision stands a good chance of being reversed. Realistically, everyone involved in this litigation knew there would be multiple appeals.


1) That’s a big, big if. It’s a weak case, full stop. It’s hard to see how the Supreme Court benefits at all from granting cert in this case.

2) The Court already had a shot at this when the Coalition requested that the 4th Circuit’s original stay back at this time last year be vacated. They voted 6-3 not to vacate, leaving the process up and running for the Class of 2026. Not much has changed since then.


Much has changed. That was an appeal about a stay, while this is the actual case.
Forum Index » Advanced Academic Programs (AAP)
Go to: