Church attendance continues to plummet

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"What are your thoughts?"

My thoughts are that it's not exclusive to religious participation. Americans are leading increasingly lonely and isolated lives. They're not just not attending church, they're pulling back from Ruritans, ladies clubs, book groups, bowling leagues, golf leagues, yacht clubs, country clubs, DAR, union halls, VFW clubs and events, hunting clubs...

There is basically one exception. Those of us who have minor children and sufficient financial means spend a lot of our time driving and watching our kids play soccer or practice dance routines.

Pretty much anything that was once a staple of American working and middle class community life is struggling for membership or dying. Never before in the history of humankind have so many people been living alone. It's an enormous mental health problem that's rapidly worsening. So we spend a lot of time online in silo'd groups getting fed algorithms that are scientifically designed to make us angrier about whatever we're inclined to be angry about.

DCUM will love to snicker at the idea of churches declining. For our family, ours is a major source of community, friendship, service work, youth activities and friends, and so on.

Since when are DAR, yacht clubs, golf leagues staples of the American working and middle class? Even service clubs have traditionally been the purview of those with enough excess capital to fund them

The PP described a range of organizations where people formed bonds. I grew up in a blue-collar neighborhood, and my parents were involved in community service organizations (and church). The point is that our rejection of institutions leaves a vacuum and impacts people of all economic circumstances, who now find themselves lonely and disconnected.

+1. I guess it's easier to snark about yacht clubs than it is actually to read and think about the comment, but it was actually normal for people from middle and working class backgrounds to be active in their churches or be in a bowling league or something like that. We have fewer of those bonds than we used to.

Stop getting hung up on the original PP's references to things that might have been more exclusively UMC or UC rather than middle class. The point still stands. Involvement in all sorts of community-building activities is falling. Service organizations like Rotary or Knights of Columbus or the Masons. Religious communities of all faiths. Adult rec leagues for things like bowling, tennis, softball. Even things we might sometimes scoff at like moms' Bunco night or dads' poker night aren't things I hear about any more. People are not placing a priority on being part of something bigger than themselves. Coupled with the fact that families are often a diaspora and yes we are seeing increasing self-segregation, loneliness and lack of shared connections.

Our nuclear family has come out of the pandemic and realized we were lonely. One goal for this year is to try to lean in to those activities that bring us together with others, to entertain more and hopefully get more invitations from friends as well.

Bunco is huge in our neighborhood and we rent out local ES gyms for dad's basketball. It's not hard to request space in an FCPS gym and no one wants the late hours. A bunch of dad's play over 35 soccer too

thats awesome for you! but its becoming more rare- a lot of religious organization also overlapped with ethnic ties and for newer immigrants, they still do but people have a lot less free time than they used to. Parenting has become more intense as has childhood. we are go go go from 6 am to 8 pm, and Saturdays are devoted to kids activities that sometimes run into Sunday. when are we supposed to play pick up soccer?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"What are your thoughts?"

My thoughts are that it's not exclusive to religious participation. Americans are leading increasingly lonely and isolated lives. They're not just not attending church, they're pulling back from Ruritans, ladies clubs, book groups, bowling leagues, golf leagues, yacht clubs, country clubs, DAR, union halls, VFW clubs and events, hunting clubs...

There is basically one exception. Those of us who have minor children and sufficient financial means spend a lot of our time driving and watching our kids play soccer or practice dance routines.

Pretty much anything that was once a staple of American working and middle class community life is struggling for membership or dying. Never before in the history of humankind have so many people been living alone. It's an enormous mental health problem that's rapidly worsening. So we spend a lot of time online in silo'd groups getting fed algorithms that are scientifically designed to make us angrier about whatever we're inclined to be angry about.

DCUM will love to snicker at the idea of churches declining. For our family, ours is a major source of community, friendship, service work, youth activities and friends, and so on.

Can you expand upon the idea that not attending church and pulling back from other organizations means that people are lonely and isolated?

Which part is unclear to you? Do you want a series of links to articles citing research about the rapidly increasing rates of depression, loneliness, and isolation? Do you want demographic links demonstrating the increasing percentages of single-person households? Do you want links about the decline of club and organization and institutional membership?

Do you really need me to Google these things for you?

Or are you skeptical of the idea that all of these trends are related, and that the prevalence of one is a contributing cause of another?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"What are your thoughts?"

My thoughts are that it's not exclusive to religious participation. Americans are leading increasingly lonely and isolated lives. They're not just not attending church, they're pulling back from Ruritans, ladies clubs, book groups, bowling leagues, golf leagues, yacht clubs, country clubs, DAR, union halls, VFW clubs and events, hunting clubs...

There is basically one exception. Those of us who have minor children and sufficient financial means spend a lot of our time driving and watching our kids play soccer or practice dance routines.

Pretty much anything that was once a staple of American working and middle class community life is struggling for membership or dying. Never before in the history of humankind have so many people been living alone. It's an enormous mental health problem that's rapidly worsening. So we spend a lot of time online in silo'd groups getting fed algorithms that are scientifically designed to make us angrier about whatever we're inclined to be angry about.

DCUM will love to snicker at the idea of churches declining. For our family, ours is a major source of community, friendship, service work, youth activities and friends, and so on.

Since when are DAR, yacht clubs, golf leagues staples of the American working and middle class? Even service clubs have traditionally been the purview of those with enough excess capital to fund them

The PP described a range of organizations where people formed bonds. I grew up in a blue-collar neighborhood, and my parents were involved in community service organizations (and church). The point is that our rejection of institutions leaves a vacuum and impacts people of all economic circumstances, who now find themselves lonely and disconnected.

+1. I guess it's easier to snark about yacht clubs than it is actually to read and think about the comment, but it was actually normal for people from middle and working class backgrounds to be active in their churches or be in a bowling league or something like that. We have fewer of those bonds than we used to.

Stop getting hung up on the original PP's references to things that might have been more exclusively UMC or UC rather than middle class. The point still stands. Involvement in all sorts of community-building activities is falling. Service organizations like Rotary or Knights of Columbus or the Masons. Religious communities of all faiths. Adult rec leagues for things like bowling, tennis, softball. Even things we might sometimes scoff at like moms' Bunco night or dads' poker night aren't things I hear about any more. People are not placing a priority on being part of something bigger than themselves. Coupled with the fact that families are often a diaspora and yes we are seeing increasing self-segregation, loneliness and lack of shared connections.

Our nuclear family has come out of the pandemic and realized we were lonely. One goal for this year is to try to lean in to those activities that bring us together with others, to entertain more and hopefully get more invitations from friends as well.

Bunco is huge in our neighborhood and we rent out local ES gyms for dad's basketball. It's not hard to request space in an FCPS gym and no one wants the late hours. A bunch of dad's play over 35 soccer too

thats awesome for you! but its becoming more rare- a lot of religious organization also overlapped with ethnic ties and for newer immigrants, they still do but people have a lot less free time than they used to. Parenting has become more intense as has childhood. we are go go go from 6 am to 8 pm, and Saturdays are devoted to kids activities that sometimes run into Sunday. when are we supposed to play pick up soccer?

Late night. That's the when adult leagues play and that's when it's easiest to get gym space. Before 8 or 9 youth teams get fields, after that adults

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh yeah, people are deserting yacht clubs in droves.

Yacht clubs!

You can't make this stuff up.

Most are actually struggling. My parents' yacht club is desperate for new members. I'm sure nobody's going to be crying about them, but it's one example of many.

My college roommate was really into racing. He was from Connecticut, mom was a teacher and dad was middle management. That family today could never afford sailing as a hobby.

why not? a laser or an opti is not expensive.

Sure, you can buy a boat, find a public launch and sail it around if you live near the water. I don't think that's the social connection PP is talking about. Yacht clubs in Connecticut aren't for regular people anymore

if they were before, what caused the change? declining participation in the middle class ones?

Land values sky rocketing, more people with more money moving in, the gutting of the middle class in general as well as increased financial pressure on the middle class.

that's a Connecticut problem ** , not a yacht club problem.

**and it' surely just a southwestern CT problem.

I wish the land values were skyrocketing where I’m from! Maybe I’d find a reason to move back, then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"What are your thoughts?"

My thoughts are that it's not exclusive to religious participation. Americans are leading increasingly lonely and isolated lives. They're not just not attending church, they're pulling back from Ruritans, ladies clubs, book groups, bowling leagues, golf leagues, yacht clubs, country clubs, DAR, union halls, VFW clubs and events, hunting clubs...

There is basically one exception. Those of us who have minor children and sufficient financial means spend a lot of our time driving and watching our kids play soccer or practice dance routines.

Pretty much anything that was once a staple of American working and middle class community life is struggling for membership or dying. Never before in the history of humankind have so many people been living alone. It's an enormous mental health problem that's rapidly worsening. So we spend a lot of time online in silo'd groups getting fed algorithms that are scientifically designed to make us angrier about whatever we're inclined to be angry about.

DCUM will love to snicker at the idea of churches declining. For our family, ours is a major source of community, friendship, service work, youth activities and friends, and so on.

Can you expand upon the idea that not attending church and pulling back from other organizations means that people are lonely and isolated?

NP. Loneliness and isolation, beginning with the pandemic but continuing afterwards, are widely discussed in secular contexts. Just google and you'll find a psychiatrist talking about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Church-based groups get political and take away human rights, and then people don't want to participate in church. Shocking.

Yep. I'm still religious, but on the progressive protestant side.

The evangelicals and conservative Catholics and any other conservative religions are killing any interest anyone would have in religion with their adherence to right wing politics and taking away basic rights.

I certainly understand why most would have no interest in religion anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"What are your thoughts?"

My thoughts are that it's not exclusive to religious participation. Americans are leading increasingly lonely and isolated lives. They're not just not attending church, they're pulling back from Ruritans, ladies clubs, book groups, bowling leagues, golf leagues, yacht clubs, country clubs, DAR, union halls, VFW clubs and events, hunting clubs...

There is basically one exception. Those of us who have minor children and sufficient financial means spend a lot of our time driving and watching our kids play soccer or practice dance routines.

Pretty much anything that was once a staple of American working and middle class community life is struggling for membership or dying. Never before in the history of humankind have so many people been living alone. It's an enormous mental health problem that's rapidly worsening. So we spend a lot of time online in silo'd groups getting fed algorithms that are scientifically designed to make us angrier about whatever we're inclined to be angry about.

DCUM will love to snicker at the idea of churches declining. For our family, ours is a major source of community, friendship, service work, youth activities and friends, and so on.

I feel the same way.

[Anonymous]

At some point after the year 2000 or so people all over the country began pulling away from social situations where they might be forced to interact with strangers. An epidemic of social awkwardness. Imagine joining a book club or adult sports team where you don't know anyone and being stuck talking to a bunch of weirdos who I might have nothing in common with! This was a completely normal situation in the past and would lead to friendships but now no one is interested. People who are obviously out to make new friends are considered desperate.
You can read the book "Bowling Alone" for more info on this phenomenon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"What are your thoughts?"

My thoughts are that it's not exclusive to religious participation. Americans are leading increasingly lonely and isolated lives. They're not just not attending church, they're pulling back from Ruritans, ladies clubs, book groups, bowling leagues, golf leagues, yacht clubs, country clubs, DAR, union halls, VFW clubs and events, hunting clubs...

There is basically one exception. Those of us who have minor children and sufficient financial means spend a lot of our time driving and watching our kids play soccer or practice dance routines.

Pretty much anything that was once a staple of American working and middle class community life is struggling for membership or dying. Never before in the history of humankind have so many people been living alone. It's an enormous mental health problem that's rapidly worsening. So we spend a lot of time online in silo'd groups getting fed algorithms that are scientifically designed to make us angrier about whatever we're inclined to be angry about.

DCUM will love to snicker at the idea of churches declining. For our family, ours is a major source of community, friendship, service work, youth activities and friends, and so on.

Since when are DAR, yacht clubs, golf leagues staples of the American working and middle class? Even service clubs have traditionally been the purview of those with enough excess capital to fund them

The PP described a range of organizations where people formed bonds. I grew up in a blue-collar neighborhood, and my parents were involved in community service organizations (and church). The point is that our rejection of institutions leaves a vacuum and impacts people of all economic circumstances, who now find themselves lonely and disconnected.

+1. I guess it's easier to snark about yacht clubs than it is actually to read and think about the comment, but it was actually normal for people from middle and working class backgrounds to be active in their churches or be in a bowling league or something like that. We have fewer of those bonds than we used to.

Stop getting hung up on the original PP's references to things that might have been more exclusively UMC or UC rather than middle class. The point still stands. Involvement in all sorts of community-building activities is falling. Service organizations like Rotary or Knights of Columbus or the Masons. Religious communities of all faiths. Adult rec leagues for things like bowling, tennis, softball. Even things we might sometimes scoff at like moms' Bunco night or dads' poker night aren't things I hear about any more. People are not placing a priority on being part of something bigger than themselves. Coupled with the fact that families are often a diaspora and yes we are seeing increasing self-segregation, loneliness and lack of shared connections.

Our nuclear family has come out of the pandemic and realized we were lonely. One goal for this year is to try to lean in to those activities that bring us together with others, to entertain more and hopefully get more invitations from friends as well.

I think you're the first person to mention the Pandemic, which I think has had a big effect on ongoing isolation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"What are your thoughts?"

My thoughts are that it's not exclusive to religious participation. Americans are leading increasingly lonely and isolated lives. They're not just not attending church, they're pulling back from Ruritans, ladies clubs, book groups, bowling leagues, golf leagues, yacht clubs, country clubs, DAR, union halls, VFW clubs and events, hunting clubs...

There is basically one exception. Those of us who have minor children and sufficient financial means spend a lot of our time driving and watching our kids play soccer or practice dance routines.

Pretty much anything that was once a staple of American working and middle class community life is struggling for membership or dying. Never before in the history of humankind have so many people been living alone. It's an enormous mental health problem that's rapidly worsening. So we spend a lot of time online in silo'd groups getting fed algorithms that are scientifically designed to make us angrier about whatever we're inclined to be angry about.

DCUM will love to snicker at the idea of churches declining. For our family, ours is a major source of community, friendship, service work, youth activities and friends, and so on.

Can you expand upon the idea that not attending church and pulling back from other organizations means that people are lonely and isolated?

Which part is unclear to you? Do you want a series of links to articles citing research about the rapidly increasing rates of depression, loneliness, and isolation? Do you want demographic links demonstrating the increasing percentages of single-person households? Do you want links about the decline of club and organization and institutional membership?

Do you really need me to Google these things for you?

Or are you skeptical of the idea that all of these trends are related, and that the prevalence of one is a contributing cause of another?

No -I was interested in your perception. e.g., Is it from internet links? Are you experiencing it yourself?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"What are your thoughts?"

My thoughts are that it's not exclusive to religious participation. Americans are leading increasingly lonely and isolated lives. They're not just not attending church, they're pulling back from Ruritans, ladies clubs, book groups, bowling leagues, golf leagues, yacht clubs, country clubs, DAR, union halls, VFW clubs and events, hunting clubs...

There is basically one exception. Those of us who have minor children and sufficient financial means spend a lot of our time driving and watching our kids play soccer or practice dance routines.

Pretty much anything that was once a staple of American working and middle class community life is struggling for membership or dying. Never before in the history of humankind have so many people been living alone. It's an enormous mental health problem that's rapidly worsening. So we spend a lot of time online in silo'd groups getting fed algorithms that are scientifically designed to make us angrier about whatever we're inclined to be angry about.

DCUM will love to snicker at the idea of churches declining. For our family, ours is a major source of community, friendship, service work, youth activities and friends, and so on.

100%. A sense of community is important to life. Going to church is one way of getting community. Read Bowling Alone. I think it's sad how the US has lots it sense of community.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"What are your thoughts?"

My thoughts are that it's not exclusive to religious participation. Americans are leading increasingly lonely and isolated lives. They're not just not attending church, they're pulling back from Ruritans, ladies clubs, book groups, bowling leagues, golf leagues, yacht clubs, country clubs, DAR, union halls, VFW clubs and events, hunting clubs...

There is basically one exception. Those of us who have minor children and sufficient financial means spend a lot of our time driving and watching our kids play soccer or practice dance routines.

Pretty much anything that was once a staple of American working and middle class community life is struggling for membership or dying. Never before in the history of humankind have so many people been living alone. It's an enormous mental health problem that's rapidly worsening. So we spend a lot of time online in silo'd groups getting fed algorithms that are scientifically designed to make us angrier about whatever we're inclined to be angry about.

DCUM will love to snicker at the idea of churches declining. For our family, ours is a major source of community, friendship, service work, youth activities and friends, and so on.

100%. A sense of community is important to life. Going to church is one way of getting community. Read Bowling Alone. I think it's sad how the US has lots it sense of community.

People don't want to spend an hour every Sunday hearing that everything they believe is evil. Churches got political and it boosted attendance in some regions, but it also made Christianity abhorrent to people in other regions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"What are your thoughts?"

My thoughts are that it's not exclusive to religious participation. Americans are leading increasingly lonely and isolated lives. They're not just not attending church, they're pulling back from Ruritans, ladies clubs, book groups, bowling leagues, golf leagues, yacht clubs, country clubs, DAR, union halls, VFW clubs and events, hunting clubs...

There is basically one exception. Those of us who have minor children and sufficient financial means spend a lot of our time driving and watching our kids play soccer or practice dance routines.

Pretty much anything that was once a staple of American working and middle class community life is struggling for membership or dying. Never before in the history of humankind have so many people been living alone. It's an enormous mental health problem that's rapidly worsening. So we spend a lot of time online in silo'd groups getting fed algorithms that are scientifically designed to make us angrier about whatever we're inclined to be angry about.

DCUM will love to snicker at the idea of churches declining. For our family, ours is a major source of community, friendship, service work, youth activities and friends, and so on.

Can you expand upon the idea that not attending church and pulling back from other organizations means that people are lonely and isolated?

Which part is unclear to you? Do you want a series of links to articles citing research about the rapidly increasing rates of depression, loneliness, and isolation? Do you want demographic links demonstrating the increasing percentages of single-person households? Do you want links about the decline of club and organization and institutional membership?

Do you really need me to Google these things for you?

Or are you skeptical of the idea that all of these trends are related, and that the prevalence of one is a contributing cause of another?

No -I was interested in your perception. e.g., Is it from internet links? Are you experiencing it yourself?

I've definitely read about it. It's been covered extensively for at least a decade in media ranging from NYT, certainly, to The Atlantic. That Bowling Alone guy -- what's his name, he's a long time Harvard person -- has written about it.

In my own life? Definitely, compared to the lives my parents and their friends led at this age, our cohorts are much less involved in community organizations and clubs, and it's all Travel Soccer and Dance Rehearsal seven days a week, in some form or another.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"What are your thoughts?"

My thoughts are that it's not exclusive to religious participation. Americans are leading increasingly lonely and isolated lives. They're not just not attending church, they're pulling back from Ruritans, ladies clubs, book groups, bowling leagues, golf leagues, yacht clubs, country clubs, DAR, union halls, VFW clubs and events, hunting clubs...

There is basically one exception. Those of us who have minor children and sufficient financial means spend a lot of our time driving and watching our kids play soccer or practice dance routines.

Pretty much anything that was once a staple of American working and middle class community life is struggling for membership or dying. Never before in the history of humankind have so many people been living alone. It's an enormous mental health problem that's rapidly worsening. So we spend a lot of time online in silo'd groups getting fed algorithms that are scientifically designed to make us angrier about whatever we're inclined to be angry about.

DCUM will love to snicker at the idea of churches declining. For our family, ours is a major source of community, friendship, service work, youth activities and friends, and so on.

100%. A sense of community is important to life. Going to church is one way of getting community. Read Bowling Alone. I think it's sad how the US has lots it sense of community.

What about believing in God and teaching your children to believe in God? should those be factored in as reasons to attend and belong to a church?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"What are your thoughts?"

My thoughts are that it's not exclusive to religious participation. Americans are leading increasingly lonely and isolated lives. They're not just not attending church, they're pulling back from Ruritans, ladies clubs, book groups, bowling leagues, golf leagues, yacht clubs, country clubs, DAR, union halls, VFW clubs and events, hunting clubs...

There is basically one exception. Those of us who have minor children and sufficient financial means spend a lot of our time driving and watching our kids play soccer or practice dance routines.

Pretty much anything that was once a staple of American working and middle class community life is struggling for membership or dying. Never before in the history of humankind have so many people been living alone. It's an enormous mental health problem that's rapidly worsening. So we spend a lot of time online in silo'd groups getting fed algorithms that are scientifically designed to make us angrier about whatever we're inclined to be angry about.

DCUM will love to snicker at the idea of churches declining. For our family, ours is a major source of community, friendship, service work, youth activities and friends, and so on.

100%. A sense of community is important to life. Going to church is one way of getting community. Read Bowling Alone. I think it's sad how the US has lots it sense of community.

People don't want to spend an hour every Sunday hearing that everything they believe is evil. Churches got political and it boosted attendance in some regions, but it also made Christianity abhorrent to people in other regions

I wonder to what extent, proportion wise, this is accurate. (I wrote the above comment you're quoting) The only way my church has gotten political is they've hung a LGBTQ pride flag in the Youth Group recreation area (the updated one, with the brown stripes, too).

It's shocking how detached from reality some people's preconceptions are.