Church attendance continues to plummet

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First they convince you that you have a need, like "salvation" for example. Then the only way to fulfill it is thru their supernatural figure. And the priestly class is the only way to explain it to you (you can't figure it out on your own). And oh, by the way, here's the collection plate. I wonder who needs whom more, do the parishioners need the pastors, or do the pastors need the parishioners more?

Wtf is a priestly class?

you gotta be kidding? Read the history of religion much?

So if it’s a historical thing why are you blubbering on about it like it’s happening today in our modern world?

People can read, write, etc. We have access to the internet and can look up any information we need. Most people have a computer more powerful than the computer that NASA used to go to the moon in their pocket- their smartphone. I don’t see priests or pastors limiting knowledge from anyone. You sound hysterical and ignorant.

who said they were "limiting knowledge"? You're then one who sounds ignorant. BTW, "hysterical" is a very sexist term, don't use it.

“And the priestly class is the only way to explain it to you (you can't figure it out on your own).“

You are the one saying everyone is too DUMB to figure anything out on their own.

You are hysterical. People can choose their own religion and figure out how they feel about their own beliefs.

o.k., then. Why do you need a preacher?

A pastor, priest, rabbi, or imam are religious leaders who are specifically educated and trained to lead their religious institutions and minster to the people who attend said institutions.

Do you think a sports team-from elementary school to professional level- doesn’t need a coach?

A school doesn’t need a principal?

Every organization needs a leader.

I don’t know if you are bored and playing dumb but it sure seems like it.

Even dcum has a site owner and moderator that has rules and regulations they monitor and enforce. They also need to make money off the forums and do maintenance and security and update the software. Nothing runs automatically in this world.

Well there ya go! You can't do it yourself; That's all I said above. We need the priestly class to tell us how this stuff works, otherwise we'd be lost. And btw, pass the collection plate.

Yes, buildings need to be maintained, employees need to be paid. Religious institutions add trillions of dollars to the US economy yearly. In 2016, $1.2 trillion.

http://www.religjournal.com/pdf/ijrr12003.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First they convince you that you have a need, like "salvation" for example. Then the only way to fulfill it is thru their supernatural figure. And the priestly class is the only way to explain it to you (you can't figure it out on your own). And oh, by the way, here's the collection plate. I wonder who needs whom more, do the parishioners need the pastors, or do the pastors need the parishioners more?

Wtf is a priestly class?

you gotta be kidding? Read the history of religion much?

So if it’s a historical thing why are you blubbering on about it like it’s happening today in our modern world?

People can read, write, etc. We have access to the internet and can look up any information we need. Most people have a computer more powerful than the computer that NASA used to go to the moon in their pocket- their smartphone. I don’t see priests or pastors limiting knowledge from anyone. You sound hysterical and ignorant.

who said they were "limiting knowledge"? You're then one who sounds ignorant. BTW, "hysterical" is a very sexist term, don't use it.

“And the priestly class is the only way to explain it to you (you can't figure it out on your own).“

You are the one saying everyone is too DUMB to figure anything out on their own.

You are hysterical. People can choose their own religion and figure out how they feel about their own beliefs.

o.k., then. Why do you need a preacher?

A pastor, priest, rabbi, or imam are religious leaders who are specifically educated and trained to lead their religious institutions and minster to the people who attend said institutions.

Do you think a sports team-from elementary school to professional level- doesn’t need a coach?

A school doesn’t need a principal?

Every organization needs a leader.

I don’t know if you are bored and playing dumb but it sure seems like it.

Even dcum has a site owner and moderator that has rules and regulations they monitor and enforce. They also need to make money off the forums and do maintenance and security and update the software. Nothing runs automatically in this world.

Well there ya go! You can't do it yourself; That's all I said above. We need the priestly class to tell us how this stuff works, otherwise we'd be lost. And btw, pass the collection plate.

Yes, buildings need to be maintained, employees need to be paid. Religious institutions add trillions of dollars to the US economy yearly. In 2016, $1.2 trillion.

http://www.religjournal.com/pdf/ijrr12003.pdf

None of it is needed if you don't go to church, as is the case with more and more people. They choose to spend their money on other things.

I hope pp is not implying that people should be religious in order to financially maintain religious institutions. There are lots of other ways to contribute to the US economy.

[Anonymous]

“None of it is needed if you don’t go to church?”

What? So society stops needing the trillions of dollars of support religious institutions give yearly because someone decides not to go to church? How does that make sense? Need never goes away, and the government can’t do it all. Religious institutions are an extremely important in society’s safety net.

I don’t get where you think I am implying anyone should become religious for any reason whatsoever. There is nothing I or anyone else can do to make people religious. People choose their beliefs and lives.

I have never seen anyone here try to convert anyone to their religion. I have seen atheists argue and debate and try convince people day after day that God doesn’t exist, though. They aren’t successful because their personalities and attitudes are so off putting and obnoxious that nobody wants to be like them or associate with them irl. I guess they come here to feel like they have some meaning in life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“None of it is needed if you don’t go to church?”

What? So society stops needing the trillions of dollars of support religious institutions give yearly because someone decides not to go to church? How does that make sense? Need never goes away, and the government can’t do it all. Religious institutions are an extremely important in society’s safety net.

I don’t get where you think I am implying anyone should become religious for any reason whatsoever. There is nothing I or anyone else can do to make people religious. People choose their beliefs and lives.

I have never seen anyone here try to convert anyone to their religion. I have seen atheists argue and debate and try convince people day after day that God doesn’t exist, though. They aren’t successful because their personalities and attitudes are so off putting and obnoxious that nobody wants to be like them or associate with them irl. I guess they come here to feel like they have some meaning in life.

Need as in pregnancy crisis centers set up to lie to desperate women?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“None of it is needed if you don’t go to church?”

What? So society stops needing the trillions of dollars of support religious institutions give yearly because someone decides not to go to church? How does that make sense? Need never goes away, and the government can’t do it all. Religious institutions are an extremely important in society’s safety net.

I don’t get where you think I am implying anyone should become religious for any reason whatsoever. There is nothing I or anyone else can do to make people religious. People choose their beliefs and lives.

I have never seen anyone here try to convert anyone to their religion. I have seen atheists argue and debate and try convince people day after day that God doesn’t exist, though. They aren’t successful because their personalities and attitudes are so off putting and obnoxious that nobody wants to be like them or associate with them irl. I guess they come here to feel like they have some meaning in life.

DP. You were doing fine until you resorted to ad hominem. Not a good approach for anyone. Just leave that out next time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“None of it is needed if you don’t go to church?”

What? So society stops needing the trillions of dollars of support religious institutions give yearly because someone decides not to go to church? How does that make sense? Need never goes away, and the government can’t do it all. Religious institutions are an extremely important in society’s safety net.

I don’t get where you think I am implying anyone should become religious for any reason whatsoever. There is nothing I or anyone else can do to make people religious. People choose their beliefs and lives.

I have never seen anyone here try to convert anyone to their religion. I have seen atheists argue and debate and try convince people day after day that God doesn’t exist, though. They aren’t successful because their personalities and attitudes are so off putting and obnoxious that nobody wants to be like them or associate with them irl. I guess they come here to feel like they have some meaning in life.

?? That article showed they rake in $1.2 trillion - not that they "give" "trillions of dollars yearly." I could go back and look at how much the religious charities give, but it ain't trillions. On the other hand they rake in good money through their schools and hospitals and the collection plate. That's the way I read it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“None of it is needed if you don’t go to church?”

What? So society stops needing the trillions of dollars of support religious institutions give yearly because someone decides not to go to church? How does that make sense? Need never goes away, and the government can’t do it all. Religious institutions are an extremely important in society’s safety net.

I don’t get where you think I am implying anyone should become religious for any reason whatsoever. There is nothing I or anyone else can do to make people religious. People choose their beliefs and lives.

I have never seen anyone here try to convert anyone to their religion. I have seen atheists argue and debate and try convince people day after day that God doesn’t exist, though. They aren’t successful because their personalities and attitudes are so off putting and obnoxious that nobody wants to be like them or associate with them irl. I guess they come here to feel like they have some meaning in life.

?? That article showed they rake in $1.2 trillion - not that they "give" "trillions of dollars yearly." I could go back and look at how much the religious charities give, but it ain't trillions. On the other hand they rake in good money through their schools and hospitals and the collection plate. That's the way I read it.

Title: The Socio-economic Contribution of Religion to American Society: An Empirical Analysis

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“None of it is needed if you don’t go to church?”

What? So society stops needing the trillions of dollars of support religious institutions give yearly because someone decides not to go to church? How does that make sense? Need never goes away, and the government can’t do it all. Religious institutions are an extremely important in society’s safety net.

I don’t get where you think I am implying anyone should become religious for any reason whatsoever. There is nothing I or anyone else can do to make people religious. People choose their beliefs and lives.

I have never seen anyone here try to convert anyone to their religion. I have seen atheists argue and debate and try convince people day after day that God doesn’t exist, though. They aren’t successful because their personalities and attitudes are so off putting and obnoxious that nobody wants to be like them or associate with them irl. I guess they come here to feel like they have some meaning in life.

?? That article showed they rake in $1.2 trillion - not that they "give" "trillions of dollars yearly." I could go back and look at how much the religious charities give, but it ain't trillions. On the other hand they rake in good money through their schools and hospitals and the collection plate. That's the way I read it.

Generosity towards religious organizations grew slightly between 2021 and 2022, despite total U.S. charitable giving declining after two record years.

Donations to religious charities grew by 5.2% between 2021 and 2022 to an estimated $143.57 billion according to “Giving USA: The Annual Report on Philanthropy,” published by Giving USA Foundation and researched and written by the Indiana University Lilly Family School of Philanthropy.

Total U.S. contributions to charities from individuals, bequests, foundations and corporations declined to $499.33 billion, a 3.4% drop.

The report called the decrease a “relatively rare occurrence” usually only seen during years with difficult or unusual economic conditions and cited stock market volatility and economic uncertainty as contributing to the drop.

Total giving was down 10.5% after adjusting for inflation from a revised total of $516.65 billion in 2021, the first time giving passed the half-trillion mark.

Giving by individuals was down 6.4%.

https://religionunplugged.com/news/2023/7/3/religious-donations-inch-up-despite-overall-decline-in-2021-2022-study-finds?format=amp

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“None of it is needed if you don’t go to church?”

What? So society stops needing the trillions of dollars of support religious institutions give yearly because someone decides not to go to church? How does that make sense? Need never goes away, and the government can’t do it all. Religious institutions are an extremely important in society’s safety net.

I don’t get where you think I am implying anyone should become religious for any reason whatsoever. There is nothing I or anyone else can do to make people religious. People choose their beliefs and lives.

I have never seen anyone here try to convert anyone to their religion. I have seen atheists argue and debate and try convince people day after day that God doesn’t exist, though. They aren’t successful because their personalities and attitudes are so off putting and obnoxious that nobody wants to be like them or associate with them irl. I guess they come here to feel like they have some meaning in life.

?? That article showed they rake in $1.2 trillion - not that they "give" "trillions of dollars yearly." I could go back and look at how much the religious charities give, but it ain't trillions. On the other hand they rake in good money through their schools and hospitals and the collection plate. That's the way I read it.

Generosity towards religious organizations grew slightly between 2021 and 2022, despite total U.S. charitable giving declining after two record years.

Donations to religious charities grew by 5.2% between 2021 and 2022 to an estimated $143.57 billion according to “Giving USA: The Annual Report on Philanthropy,” published by Giving USA Foundation and researched and written by the Indiana University Lilly Family School of Philanthropy.

Total U.S. contributions to charities from individuals, bequests, foundations and corporations declined to $499.33 billion, a 3.4% drop.

The report called the decrease a “relatively rare occurrence” usually only seen during years with difficult or unusual economic conditions and cited stock market volatility and economic uncertainty as contributing to the drop.

Total giving was down 10.5% after adjusting for inflation from a revised total of $516.65 billion in 2021, the first time giving passed the half-trillion mark.

Giving by individuals was down 6.4%.

https://religionunplugged.com/news/2023/7/3/religious-donations-inch-up-despite-overall-decline-in-2021-2022-study-finds?format=amp

So Joel Orsteen can buy another jet? Yay for America, I guess

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“None of it is needed if you don’t go to church?”

What? So society stops needing the trillions of dollars of support religious institutions give yearly because someone decides not to go to church? How does that make sense? Need never goes away, and the government can’t do it all. Religious institutions are an extremely important in society’s safety net.

I don’t get where you think I am implying anyone should become religious for any reason whatsoever. There is nothing I or anyone else can do to make people religious. People choose their beliefs and lives.

I have never seen anyone here try to convert anyone to their religion. I have seen atheists argue and debate and try convince people day after day that God doesn’t exist, though. They aren’t successful because their personalities and attitudes are so off putting and obnoxious that nobody wants to be like them or associate with them irl. I guess they come here to feel like they have some meaning in life.

?? That article showed they rake in $1.2 trillion - not that they "give" "trillions of dollars yearly." I could go back and look at how much the religious charities give, but it ain't trillions. On the other hand they rake in good money through their schools and hospitals and the collection plate. That's the way I read it.

Generosity towards religious organizations grew slightly between 2021 and 2022, despite total U.S. charitable giving declining after two record years.

Donations to religious charities grew by 5.2% between 2021 and 2022 to an estimated $143.57 billion according to “Giving USA: The Annual Report on Philanthropy,” published by Giving USA Foundation and researched and written by the Indiana University Lilly Family School of Philanthropy.

Total U.S. contributions to charities from individuals, bequests, foundations and corporations declined to $499.33 billion, a 3.4% drop.

The report called the decrease a “relatively rare occurrence” usually only seen during years with difficult or unusual economic conditions and cited stock market volatility and economic uncertainty as contributing to the drop.

Total giving was down 10.5% after adjusting for inflation from a revised total of $516.65 billion in 2021, the first time giving passed the half-trillion mark.

Giving by individuals was down 6.4%.

https://religionunplugged.com/news/2023/7/3/religious-donations-inch-up-despite-overall-decline-in-2021-2022-study-finds?format=amp

Thank you. This is a lot more accurate. But giving "to" charities isn't the same as giving "by" charities. And in any event, it's definitely not in the trillions like that pp above claimed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“None of it is needed if you don’t go to church?”

What? So society stops needing the trillions of dollars of support religious institutions give yearly because someone decides not to go to church? How does that make sense? Need never goes away, and the government can’t do it all. Religious institutions are an extremely important in society’s safety net.

I don’t get where you think I am implying anyone should become religious for any reason whatsoever. There is nothing I or anyone else can do to make people religious. People choose their beliefs and lives.

I have never seen anyone here try to convert anyone to their religion. I have seen atheists argue and debate and try convince people day after day that God doesn’t exist, though. They aren’t successful because their personalities and attitudes are so off putting and obnoxious that nobody wants to be like them or associate with them irl. I guess they come here to feel like they have some meaning in life.

?? That article showed they rake in $1.2 trillion - not that they "give" "trillions of dollars yearly." I could go back and look at how much the religious charities give, but it ain't trillions. On the other hand they rake in good money through their schools and hospitals and the collection plate. That's the way I read it.

Generosity towards religious organizations grew slightly between 2021 and 2022, despite total U.S. charitable giving declining after two record years.

Donations to religious charities grew by 5.2% between 2021 and 2022 to an estimated $143.57 billion according to “Giving USA: The Annual Report on Philanthropy,” published by Giving USA Foundation and researched and written by the Indiana University Lilly Family School of Philanthropy.

Total U.S. contributions to charities from individuals, bequests, foundations and corporations declined to $499.33 billion, a 3.4% drop.

The report called the decrease a “relatively rare occurrence” usually only seen during years with difficult or unusual economic conditions and cited stock market volatility and economic uncertainty as contributing to the drop.

Total giving was down 10.5% after adjusting for inflation from a revised total of $516.65 billion in 2021, the first time giving passed the half-trillion mark.

Giving by individuals was down 6.4%.

https://religionunplugged.com/news/2023/7/3/religious-donations-inch-up-despite-overall-decline-in-2021-2022-study-finds?format=amp

So Joel Orsteen can buy another jet? Yay for America, I guess

You must be a simple creature if you truly view religion in society and culture through the view of a lens trained on a singular man named Joel “Orsteen.” And not a bit of sympathy or gladness for the people and families who are truly helped every day by religious charities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“None of it is needed if you don’t go to church?”

What? So society stops needing the trillions of dollars of support religious institutions give yearly because someone decides not to go to church? How does that make sense? Need never goes away, and the government can’t do it all. Religious institutions are an extremely important in society’s safety net.

I don’t get where you think I am implying anyone should become religious for any reason whatsoever. There is nothing I or anyone else can do to make people religious. People choose their beliefs and lives.

I have never seen anyone here try to convert anyone to their religion. I have seen atheists argue and debate and try convince people day after day that God doesn’t exist, though. They aren’t successful because their personalities and attitudes are so off putting and obnoxious that nobody wants to be like them or associate with them irl. I guess they come here to feel like they have some meaning in life.

?? That article showed they rake in $1.2 trillion - not that they "give" "trillions of dollars yearly." I could go back and look at how much the religious charities give, but it ain't trillions. On the other hand they rake in good money through their schools and hospitals and the collection plate. That's the way I read it.

Title: The Socio-economic Contribution of Religion to American Society: An Empirical Analysis

"Contribution" doesn't mean the amount they contribute, i.e. give. It's about their slice of the economy, and clearly was about the amount they take in.
Microsoft sells software, Apple sells computers, the religious institutions are selling something people believe they need I guess, so they give their hard earned money to these organizations. Most of it was money paid to religious schools, hospitals and the collection plate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“None of it is needed if you don’t go to church?”

What? So society stops needing the trillions of dollars of support religious institutions give yearly because someone decides not to go to church? How does that make sense? Need never goes away, and the government can’t do it all. Religious institutions are an extremely important in society’s safety net.

I don’t get where you think I am implying anyone should become religious for any reason whatsoever. There is nothing I or anyone else can do to make people religious. People choose their beliefs and lives.

I have never seen anyone here try to convert anyone to their religion. I have seen atheists argue and debate and try convince people day after day that God doesn’t exist, though. They aren’t successful because their personalities and attitudes are so off putting and obnoxious that nobody wants to be like them or associate with them irl. I guess they come here to feel like they have some meaning in life.

?? That article showed they rake in $1.2 trillion - not that they "give" "trillions of dollars yearly." I could go back and look at how much the religious charities give, but it ain't trillions. On the other hand they rake in good money through their schools and hospitals and the collection plate. That's the way I read it.

Title: The Socio-economic Contribution of Religion to American Society: An Empirical Analysis

"Contribution" doesn't mean the amount they contribute, i.e. give. It's about their slice of the economy, and clearly was about the amount they take in.
Microsoft sells software, Apple sells computers, the religious institutions are selling something people believe they need I guess, so they give their hard earned money to these organizations. Most of it was money paid to religious schools, hospitals and the collection plate.

Atheists are substantially less likely than Protestants and Catholics to report volunteering their time to charitable organizations.

85% of atheists say they have not volunteered with a religious charity in the past 12 months.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“None of it is needed if you don’t go to church?”

What? So society stops needing the trillions of dollars of support religious institutions give yearly because someone decides not to go to church? How does that make sense? Need never goes away, and the government can’t do it all. Religious institutions are an extremely important in society’s safety net.

I don’t get where you think I am implying anyone should become religious for any reason whatsoever. There is nothing I or anyone else can do to make people religious. People choose their beliefs and lives.

I have never seen anyone here try to convert anyone to their religion. I have seen atheists argue and debate and try convince people day after day that God doesn’t exist, though. They aren’t successful because their personalities and attitudes are so off putting and obnoxious that nobody wants to be like them or associate with them irl. I guess they come here to feel like they have some meaning in life.

?? That article showed they rake in $1.2 trillion - not that they "give" "trillions of dollars yearly." I could go back and look at how much the religious charities give, but it ain't trillions. On the other hand they rake in good money through their schools and hospitals and the collection plate. That's the way I read it.

Generosity towards religious organizations grew slightly between 2021 and 2022, despite total U.S. charitable giving declining after two record years.

Donations to religious charities grew by 5.2% between 2021 and 2022 to an estimated $143.57 billion according to “Giving USA: The Annual Report on Philanthropy,” published by Giving USA Foundation and researched and written by the Indiana University Lilly Family School of Philanthropy.

Total U.S. contributions to charities from individuals, bequests, foundations and corporations declined to $499.33 billion, a 3.4% drop.

The report called the decrease a “relatively rare occurrence” usually only seen during years with difficult or unusual economic conditions and cited stock market volatility and economic uncertainty as contributing to the drop.

Total giving was down 10.5% after adjusting for inflation from a revised total of $516.65 billion in 2021, the first time giving passed the half-trillion mark.

Giving by individuals was down 6.4%.

https://religionunplugged.com/news/2023/7/3/religious-donations-inch-up-despite-overall-decline-in-2021-2022-study-finds?format=amp

So Joel Orsteen can buy another jet? Yay for America, I guess

You must be a simple creature if you truly view religion in society and culture through the view of a lens trained on a singular man named Joel “Orsteen.” And not a bit of sympathy or gladness for the people and families who are truly helped every day by religious charities.

What percentage of giving actually goes to real charities and not clergy salary or benefits or facilities maintenance? When we finally left church and stopped donating one of the primary reasons was that the church budget was almost entirely dues, salary, benefits, and facility.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“None of it is needed if you don’t go to church?”

What? So society stops needing the trillions of dollars of support religious institutions give yearly because someone decides not to go to church? How does that make sense? Need never goes away, and the government can’t do it all. Religious institutions are an extremely important in society’s safety net.

I don’t get where you think I am implying anyone should become religious for any reason whatsoever. There is nothing I or anyone else can do to make people religious. People choose their beliefs and lives.

I have never seen anyone here try to convert anyone to their religion. I have seen atheists argue and debate and try convince people day after day that God doesn’t exist, though. They aren’t successful because their personalities and attitudes are so off putting and obnoxious that nobody wants to be like them or associate with them irl. I guess they come here to feel like they have some meaning in life.

?? That article showed they rake in $1.2 trillion - not that they "give" "trillions of dollars yearly." I could go back and look at how much the religious charities give, but it ain't trillions. On the other hand they rake in good money through their schools and hospitals and the collection plate. That's the way I read it.

Title: The Socio-economic Contribution of Religion to American Society: An Empirical Analysis

"Contribution" doesn't mean the amount they contribute, i.e. give. It's about their slice of the economy, and clearly was about the amount they take in.
Microsoft sells software, Apple sells computers, the religious institutions are selling something people believe they need I guess, so they give their hard earned money to these organizations. Most of it was money paid to religious schools, hospitals and the collection plate.

Atheists are substantially less likely than Protestants and Catholics to report volunteering their time to charitable organizations.

85% of atheists say they have not volunteered with a religious charity in the past 12 months.

Why would they? Seems like a rather obvious and but pointless statistic.