Church attendance continues to plummet

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh yeah, people are deserting yacht clubs in droves.

Yacht clubs!

You can't make this stuff up.

Most are actually struggling. My parents' yacht club is desperate for new members. I'm sure nobody's going to be crying about them, but it's one example of many.

My college roommate was really into racing. He was from Connecticut, mom was a teacher and dad was middle management. That family today could never afford sailing as a hobby.

why not? a laser or an opti is not expensive.

Sure, you can buy a boat, find a public launch and sail it around if you live near the water. I don't think that's the social connection PP is talking about. Yacht clubs in Connecticut aren't for regular people anymore

if they were before, what caused the change? declining participation in the middle class ones?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"What are your thoughts?"

My thoughts are that it's not exclusive to religious participation. Americans are leading increasingly lonely and isolated lives. They're not just not attending church, they're pulling back from Ruritans, ladies clubs, book groups, bowling leagues, golf leagues, yacht clubs, country clubs, DAR, union halls, VFW clubs and events, hunting clubs...

There is basically one exception. Those of us who have minor children and sufficient financial means spend a lot of our time driving and watching our kids play soccer or practice dance routines.

Pretty much anything that was once a staple of American working and middle class community life is struggling for membership or dying. Never before in the history of humankind have so many people been living alone. It's an enormous mental health problem that's rapidly worsening. So we spend a lot of time online in silo'd groups getting fed algorithms that are scientifically designed to make us angrier about whatever we're inclined to be angry about.

DCUM will love to snicker at the idea of churches declining. For our family, ours is a major source of community, friendship, service work, youth activities and friends, and so on.

Since when are DAR, yacht clubs, golf leagues staples of the American working and middle class? Even service clubs have traditionally been the purview of those with enough excess capital to fund them

The PP described a range of organizations where people formed bonds. I grew up in a blue-collar neighborhood, and my parents were involved in community service organizations (and church). The point is that our rejection of institutions leaves a vacuum and impacts people of all economic circumstances, who now find themselves lonely and disconnected.

Precisely this.

The loss of faith in institutions and organizations and its consequences has really been on my mind lately. I think it's worthy of its own thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh yeah, people are deserting yacht clubs in droves.

Yacht clubs!

You can't make this stuff up.

Most are actually struggling. My parents' yacht club is desperate for new members. I'm sure nobody's going to be crying about them, but it's one example of many.

My college roommate was really into racing. He was from Connecticut, mom was a teacher and dad was middle management. That family today could never afford sailing as a hobby.

why not? a laser or an opti is not expensive.

Sure, you can buy a boat, find a public launch and sail it around if you live near the water. I don't think that's the social connection PP is talking about. Yacht clubs in Connecticut aren't for regular people anymore

if they were before, what caused the change? declining participation in the middle class ones?

Land values sky rocketing, more people with more money moving in, the gutting of the middle class in general as well as increased financial pressure on the middle class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"What are your thoughts?"

My thoughts are that it's not exclusive to religious participation. Americans are leading increasingly lonely and isolated lives. They're not just not attending church, they're pulling back from Ruritans, ladies clubs, book groups, bowling leagues, golf leagues, yacht clubs, country clubs, DAR, union halls, VFW clubs and events, hunting clubs...

There is basically one exception. Those of us who have minor children and sufficient financial means spend a lot of our time driving and watching our kids play soccer or practice dance routines.

Pretty much anything that was once a staple of American working and middle class community life is struggling for membership or dying. Never before in the history of humankind have so many people been living alone. It's an enormous mental health problem that's rapidly worsening. So we spend a lot of time online in silo'd groups getting fed algorithms that are scientifically designed to make us angrier about whatever we're inclined to be angry about.

DCUM will love to snicker at the idea of churches declining. For our family, ours is a major source of community, friendship, service work, youth activities and friends, and so on.

Spot on.
Add Scouting to that list - those numbers have plummeted as well. Even the local chamber of commerce and things like that. Anything that has a non-competitive community aspect seems to be dying. And it's those things that are most critical to knitting together the fabric of society.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"What are your thoughts?"

My thoughts are that it's not exclusive to religious participation. Americans are leading increasingly lonely and isolated lives. They're not just not attending church, they're pulling back from Ruritans, ladies clubs, book groups, bowling leagues, golf leagues, yacht clubs, country clubs, DAR, union halls, VFW clubs and events, hunting clubs...

There is basically one exception. Those of us who have minor children and sufficient financial means spend a lot of our time driving and watching our kids play soccer or practice dance routines.

Pretty much anything that was once a staple of American working and middle class community life is struggling for membership or dying. Never before in the history of humankind have so many people been living alone. It's an enormous mental health problem that's rapidly worsening. So we spend a lot of time online in silo'd groups getting fed algorithms that are scientifically designed to make us angrier about whatever we're inclined to be angry about.

DCUM will love to snicker at the idea of churches declining. For our family, ours is a major source of community, friendship, service work, youth activities and friends, and so on.

Sports has always been a part of working- and middle-class community life... and it's thriving.

I don't think the working and middle class sports are thriving at all. Travel and club level groups that cost thousands of dollars and demand you sacrifice all your time seem to be thriving. But your local rec league is also dying. The places where neighborhood kids get together and play baseball or soccer together on a team for fun is vanishing pretty quickly. So if you can't afford to invest in the crazy prized for some third tier travel team, you're out of luck

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh yeah, people are deserting yacht clubs in droves.

Yacht clubs!

You can't make this stuff up.

Most are actually struggling. My parents' yacht club is desperate for new members. I'm sure nobody's going to be crying about them, but it's one example of many.

My college roommate was really into racing. He was from Connecticut, mom was a teacher and dad was middle management. That family today could never afford sailing as a hobby.

why not? a laser or an opti is not expensive.

Sure, you can buy a boat, find a public launch and sail it around if you live near the water. I don't think that's the social connection PP is talking about. Yacht clubs in Connecticut aren't for regular people anymore

The yacht club in my neighborhood costs $150 per year to join. And you don't need to own a boat.
You can snark about yacht clubs or address the actual issue, which I think is a real and serious one, and goes far beyond the "nones" of religion.

[Anonymous]

The Christian church is booming in Asia and Africa.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"What are your thoughts?"

My thoughts are that it's not exclusive to religious participation. Americans are leading increasingly lonely and isolated lives. They're not just not attending church, they're pulling back from Ruritans, ladies clubs, book groups, bowling leagues, golf leagues, yacht clubs, country clubs, DAR, union halls, VFW clubs and events, hunting clubs...

There is basically one exception. Those of us who have minor children and sufficient financial means spend a lot of our time driving and watching our kids play soccer or practice dance routines.

Pretty much anything that was once a staple of American working and middle class community life is struggling for membership or dying. Never before in the history of humankind have so many people been living alone. It's an enormous mental health problem that's rapidly worsening. So we spend a lot of time online in silo'd groups getting fed algorithms that are scientifically designed to make us angrier about whatever we're inclined to be angry about.

DCUM will love to snicker at the idea of churches declining. For our family, ours is a major source of community, friendship, service work, youth activities and friends, and so on.

Sports has always been a part of working- and middle-class community life... and it's thriving.

The byproduct of expanding travel soccer is that rec has turned into travel light for a fraction of the price. The suburban friendship league is structured a lot like a local travel league and the teams aren't any different from the low level travel teams

I don't think the working and middle class sports are thriving at all. Travel and club level groups that cost thousands of dollars and demand you sacrifice all your time seem to be thriving. But your local rec league is also dying. The places where neighborhood kids get together and play baseball or soccer together on a team for fun is vanishing pretty quickly. So if you can't afford to invest in the crazy prized for some third tier travel team, you're out of luck

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh yeah, people are deserting yacht clubs in droves.

Yacht clubs!

You can't make this stuff up.

Most are actually struggling. My parents' yacht club is desperate for new members. I'm sure nobody's going to be crying about them, but it's one example of many.

My college roommate was really into racing. He was from Connecticut, mom was a teacher and dad was middle management. That family today could never afford sailing as a hobby.

why not? a laser or an opti is not expensive.

Sure, you can buy a boat, find a public launch and sail it around if you live near the water. I don't think that's the social connection PP is talking about. Yacht clubs in Connecticut aren't for regular people anymore

The yacht club in my neighborhood costs $150 per year to join. And you don't need to own a boat.
You can snark about yacht clubs or address the actual issue, which I think is a real and serious one, and goes far beyond the "nones" of religion.

Our local club requires multiple sponsors and a large non-refundable application fee on top of high dues and an initiation fee

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh yeah, people are deserting yacht clubs in droves.

Yacht clubs!

You can't make this stuff up.

Most are actually struggling. My parents' yacht club is desperate for new members. I'm sure nobody's going to be crying about them, but it's one example of many.

My college roommate was really into racing. He was from Connecticut, mom was a teacher and dad was middle management. That family today could never afford sailing as a hobby.

why not? a laser or an opti is not expensive.

Sure, you can buy a boat, find a public launch and sail it around if you live near the water. I don't think that's the social connection PP is talking about. Yacht clubs in Connecticut aren't for regular people anymore

if they were before, what caused the change? declining participation in the middle class ones?

Land values sky rocketing, more people with more money moving in, the gutting of the middle class in general as well as increased financial pressure on the middle class.

that's a Connecticut problem ** , not a yacht club problem.

**and it' surely just a southwestern CT problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"What are your thoughts?"

My thoughts are that it's not exclusive to religious participation. Americans are leading increasingly lonely and isolated lives. They're not just not attending church, they're pulling back from Ruritans, ladies clubs, book groups, bowling leagues, golf leagues, yacht clubs, country clubs, DAR, union halls, VFW clubs and events, hunting clubs...

There is basically one exception. Those of us who have minor children and sufficient financial means spend a lot of our time driving and watching our kids play soccer or practice dance routines.

Pretty much anything that was once a staple of American working and middle class community life is struggling for membership or dying. Never before in the history of humankind have so many people been living alone. It's an enormous mental health problem that's rapidly worsening. So we spend a lot of time online in silo'd groups getting fed algorithms that are scientifically designed to make us angrier about whatever we're inclined to be angry about.

DCUM will love to snicker at the idea of churches declining. For our family, ours is a major source of community, friendship, service work, youth activities and friends, and so on.

Since when are DAR, yacht clubs, golf leagues staples of the American working and middle class? Even service clubs have traditionally been the purview of those with enough excess capital to fund them

I'm happy to include upper class in my statement, as it certainly applies.

Most of what you listed are exclusionary in nature. Why is it surprising that generations raised to be inclusive aren't joining groups that define themselves by exclusion? Even on your list, the clubs that cater to the wealthy (hunting clubs and golf) are still doing great

Exclusionary how? Most groups define themselves by certain common characteristics or interests. Most people have not traditionally found bowling leagues to be snobby and exclusionary.

You can't just join a union hall or go to your local VFW. DAR requires a genealogy.

You can join a Woman's Club or Lion's Club. They are still all over the area and have no exclusions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"What are your thoughts?"

My thoughts are that it's not exclusive to religious participation. Americans are leading increasingly lonely and isolated lives. They're not just not attending church, they're pulling back from Ruritans, ladies clubs, book groups, bowling leagues, golf leagues, yacht clubs, country clubs, DAR, union halls, VFW clubs and events, hunting clubs...

There is basically one exception. Those of us who have minor children and sufficient financial means spend a lot of our time driving and watching our kids play soccer or practice dance routines.

Pretty much anything that was once a staple of American working and middle class community life is struggling for membership or dying. Never before in the history of humankind have so many people been living alone. It's an enormous mental health problem that's rapidly worsening. So we spend a lot of time online in silo'd groups getting fed algorithms that are scientifically designed to make us angrier about whatever we're inclined to be angry about.

DCUM will love to snicker at the idea of churches declining. For our family, ours is a major source of community, friendship, service work, youth activities and friends, and so on.

Can you expand upon the idea that not attending church and pulling back from other organizations means that people are lonely and isolated?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"What are your thoughts?"

My thoughts are that it's not exclusive to religious participation. Americans are leading increasingly lonely and isolated lives. They're not just not attending church, they're pulling back from Ruritans, ladies clubs, book groups, bowling leagues, golf leagues, yacht clubs, country clubs, DAR, union halls, VFW clubs and events, hunting clubs...

There is basically one exception. Those of us who have minor children and sufficient financial means spend a lot of our time driving and watching our kids play soccer or practice dance routines.

Pretty much anything that was once a staple of American working and middle class community life is struggling for membership or dying. Never before in the history of humankind have so many people been living alone. It's an enormous mental health problem that's rapidly worsening. So we spend a lot of time online in silo'd groups getting fed algorithms that are scientifically designed to make us angrier about whatever we're inclined to be angry about.

DCUM will love to snicker at the idea of churches declining. For our family, ours is a major source of community, friendship, service work, youth activities and friends, and so on.

Since when are DAR, yacht clubs, golf leagues staples of the American working and middle class? Even service clubs have traditionally been the purview of those with enough excess capital to fund them

The PP described a range of organizations where people formed bonds. I grew up in a blue-collar neighborhood, and my parents were involved in community service organizations (and church). The point is that our rejection of institutions leaves a vacuum and impacts people of all economic circumstances, who now find themselves lonely and disconnected.

+1. I guess it's easier to snark about yacht clubs than it is actually to read and think about the comment, but it was actually normal for people from middle and working class backgrounds to be active in their churches or be in a bowling league or something like that. We have fewer of those bonds than we used to.

Stop getting hung up on the original PP's references to things that might have been more exclusively UMC or UC rather than middle class. The point still stands. Involvement in all sorts of community-building activities is falling. Service organizations like Rotary or Knights of Columbus or the Masons. Religious communities of all faiths. Adult rec leagues for things like bowling, tennis, softball. Even things we might sometimes scoff at like moms' Bunco night or dads' poker night aren't things I hear about any more. People are not placing a priority on being part of something bigger than themselves. Coupled with the fact that families are often a diaspora and yes we are seeing increasing self-segregation, loneliness and lack of shared connections.

Our nuclear family has come out of the pandemic and realized we were lonely. One goal for this year is to try to lean in to those activities that bring us together with others, to entertain more and hopefully get more invitations from friends as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"What are your thoughts?"

My thoughts are that it's not exclusive to religious participation. Americans are leading increasingly lonely and isolated lives. They're not just not attending church, they're pulling back from Ruritans, ladies clubs, book groups, bowling leagues, golf leagues, yacht clubs, country clubs, DAR, union halls, VFW clubs and events, hunting clubs...

There is basically one exception. Those of us who have minor children and sufficient financial means spend a lot of our time driving and watching our kids play soccer or practice dance routines.

Pretty much anything that was once a staple of American working and middle class community life is struggling for membership or dying. Never before in the history of humankind have so many people been living alone. It's an enormous mental health problem that's rapidly worsening. So we spend a lot of time online in silo'd groups getting fed algorithms that are scientifically designed to make us angrier about whatever we're inclined to be angry about.

DCUM will love to snicker at the idea of churches declining. For our family, ours is a major source of community, friendship, service work, youth activities and friends, and so on.

Since when are DAR, yacht clubs, golf leagues staples of the American working and middle class? Even service clubs have traditionally been the purview of those with enough excess capital to fund them

The PP described a range of organizations where people formed bonds. I grew up in a blue-collar neighborhood, and my parents were involved in community service organizations (and church). The point is that our rejection of institutions leaves a vacuum and impacts people of all economic circumstances, who now find themselves lonely and disconnected.

+1. I guess it's easier to snark about yacht clubs than it is actually to read and think about the comment, but it was actually normal for people from middle and working class backgrounds to be active in their churches or be in a bowling league or something like that. We have fewer of those bonds than we used to.

Stop getting hung up on the original PP's references to things that might have been more exclusively UMC or UC rather than middle class. The point still stands. Involvement in all sorts of community-building activities is falling. Service organizations like Rotary or Knights of Columbus or the Masons. Religious communities of all faiths. Adult rec leagues for things like bowling, tennis, softball. Even things we might sometimes scoff at like moms' Bunco night or dads' poker night aren't things I hear about any more. People are not placing a priority on being part of something bigger than themselves. Coupled with the fact that families are often a diaspora and yes we are seeing increasing self-segregation, loneliness and lack of shared connections.

Our nuclear family has come out of the pandemic and realized we were lonely. One goal for this year is to try to lean in to those activities that bring us together with others, to entertain more and hopefully get more invitations from friends as well.

Bunco is huge in our neighborhood and we rent out local ES gyms for dad's basketball. It's not hard to request space in an FCPS gym and no one wants the late hours. A bunch of dad's play over 35 soccer too

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"What are your thoughts?"

My thoughts are that it's not exclusive to religious participation. Americans are leading increasingly lonely and isolated lives. They're not just not attending church, they're pulling back from Ruritans, ladies clubs, book groups, bowling leagues, golf leagues, yacht clubs, country clubs, DAR, union halls, VFW clubs and events, hunting clubs...

There is basically one exception. Those of us who have minor children and sufficient financial means spend a lot of our time driving and watching our kids play soccer or practice dance routines.

Pretty much anything that was once a staple of American working and middle class community life is struggling for membership or dying. Never before in the history of humankind have so many people been living alone. It's an enormous mental health problem that's rapidly worsening. So we spend a lot of time online in silo'd groups getting fed algorithms that are scientifically designed to make us angrier about whatever we're inclined to be angry about.

DCUM will love to snicker at the idea of churches declining. For our family, ours is a major source of community, friendship, service work, youth activities and friends, and so on.

Sports has always been a part of working- and middle-class community life... and it's thriving.

I don't think the working and middle class sports are thriving at all. Travel and club level groups that cost thousands of dollars and demand you sacrifice all your time seem to be thriving. But your local rec league is also dying. The places where neighborhood kids get together and play baseball or soccer together on a team for fun is vanishing pretty quickly. So if you can't afford to invest in the crazy prized for some third tier travel team, you're out of luck

I'm a vendor for local rec leagues. Local rec leagues have an extremely difficult time getting parent volunteers. Kids want to participate but it is challenging to have enough parent volunteers to function.