MAP-M 6+ in 5th grade

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid's score growth has been smooth from ES to MS. Looking at the score history there's no clue where the switch from 2-5 to 6+ was.

Im guessing you didn’t have an outlier kid? Kids scoring in the 270s in the 3-5 version usually see a big drop. Kids scoring in the 240s or below may not.

Mine didn't drop, but does study next-level math over the summer, so maybe that covered the gap.

You had a kid scoring in the 270s in 5th who increased from that in 6th because of studying over the summer?

I can't prove it's "because", but besides that, yes. We've done Beast Academy / AoPS material at home since 2nd grade, including summers.

Spring scores were 240s in 2nd, with ~10pts/yr growth every year 2nd-6th. (Interpolating to estimate the covid-missing Spring 2020 score)

There is some jitter with the Fall and Winter scores, probably because my kid likes testing, and so puzzled and educated-guessed on material not studied yet, and there are multiple choice questions, and the rest is short.

So what were the actual scores end of 5th and beginning of 6?

276 and 282

282 in the 6+ MAP suggests strong knowledge of both algebra 1 and geometry. I don’t buy it.

Let me know if you are interested in hiring a tutor or educational advisor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid's score growth has been smooth from ES to MS. Looking at the score history there's no clue where the switch from 2-5 to 6+ was.

Im guessing you didn’t have an outlier kid? Kids scoring in the 270s in the 3-5 version usually see a big drop. Kids scoring in the 240s or below may not.

Mine didn't drop, but does study next-level math over the summer, so maybe that covered the gap.

You had a kid scoring in the 270s in 5th who increased from that in 6th because of studying over the summer?

I can't prove it's "because", but besides that, yes. We've done Beast Academy / AoPS material at home since 2nd grade, including summers.

Spring scores were 240s in 2nd, with ~10pts/yr growth every year 2nd-6th. (Interpolating to estimate the covid-missing Spring 2020 score)

There is some jitter with the Fall and Winter scores, probably because my kid likes testing, and so puzzled and educated-guessed on material not studied yet, and there are multiple choice questions, and the rest is short.

So what were the actual scores end of 5th and beginning of 6?

276 and 282

282 in the 6+ MAP suggests strong knowledge of both algebra 1 and geometry. I don’t buy it.

Then you should "buy" this:
https://www.amazon.com/Hard-Math-Middle-School-IMLEM/dp/1453814450 (written by the father of infamous FTX/Alameda crypto fraudster Caroline Ellison!)

Or this:
https://artofproblemsolving.com/store/book/competition-math

Or this:
https://artofproblemsolving.com/store/book/intro-geometry

Or this:
https://artofproblemsolving.com/mathcounts_trainer

Or show up for math team practice twice a week all year long.

Math team practice twice a week in 5th grade? Oh my! How the other half live! I like my kids to have a childhood - they are self motivated and good kids but no, I’m not pushing them. And guess what? Even without the pressure cooker at home they still get into the Blair magnet!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s probably a good thing to switch kids in 5/6 in the spring- by this point they should have completed almost all of the 6th grade content, so the test matches their instruction.

So in the fall when they are about 1/2 way through the 5th grade content they take the 2-5 version and in the spring when they are almost finished the 6th grade content they take the 6+.

Seems like the scores will be a more accurate reflection and not get skewed so high by kids taking the test where it tops out because they have been taught more content.

NWEA says not to switch the test mid-year. They should choose one test and have the kids take that the full year.

Taking the map in May is end of year and not mid year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid's score growth has been smooth from ES to MS. Looking at the score history there's no clue where the switch from 2-5 to 6+ was.

Im guessing you didn’t have an outlier kid? Kids scoring in the 270s in the 3-5 version usually see a big drop. Kids scoring in the 240s or below may not.

Mine didn't drop, but does study next-level math over the summer, so maybe that covered the gap.

You had a kid scoring in the 270s in 5th who increased from that in 6th because of studying over the summer?

I can't prove it's "because", but besides that, yes. We've done Beast Academy / AoPS material at home since 2nd grade, including summers.

Spring scores were 240s in 2nd, with ~10pts/yr growth every year 2nd-6th. (Interpolating to estimate the covid-missing Spring 2020 score)

There is some jitter with the Fall and Winter scores, probably because my kid likes testing, and so puzzled and educated-guessed on material not studied yet, and there are multiple choice questions, and the rest is short.

So what were the actual scores end of 5th and beginning of 6?

276 and 282

282 in the 6+ MAP suggests strong knowledge of both algebra 1 and geometry. I don’t buy it.

Then you should "buy" this:
https://www.amazon.com/Hard-Math-Middle-School-IMLEM/dp/1453814450 (written by the father of infamous FTX/Alameda crypto fraudster Caroline Ellison!)

Or this:
https://artofproblemsolving.com/store/book/competition-math

Or this:
https://artofproblemsolving.com/store/book/intro-geometry

Or this:
https://artofproblemsolving.com/mathcounts_trainer

Or show up for math team practice twice a week all year long.

Math team practice twice a week in 5th grade? Oh my! How the other half live! I like my kids to have a childhood - they are self motivated and good kids but no, I’m not pushing them. And guess what? Even without the pressure cooker at home they still get into the Blair magnet!

Oh, give it a rest. I'm not the PP, but keep your judgement in check. Some kids really, genuinely love Math. Why are you assuming that the PP is pressuring her child? I have a kid like this.

Would you say the same thing to a parent whose child practices soccer 2 times a week? Would you say the same to a parent who has their kid practice piano daily?

My kid hates the piano, and I can't imagine forcing a kid to take piano lessons, but Math is her thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid's score growth has been smooth from ES to MS. Looking at the score history there's no clue where the switch from 2-5 to 6+ was.

Im guessing you didn’t have an outlier kid? Kids scoring in the 270s in the 3-5 version usually see a big drop. Kids scoring in the 240s or below may not.

Mine didn't drop, but does study next-level math over the summer, so maybe that covered the gap.

You had a kid scoring in the 270s in 5th who increased from that in 6th because of studying over the summer?

I can't prove it's "because", but besides that, yes. We've done Beast Academy / AoPS material at home since 2nd grade, including summers.

Spring scores were 240s in 2nd, with ~10pts/yr growth every year 2nd-6th. (Interpolating to estimate the covid-missing Spring 2020 score)

There is some jitter with the Fall and Winter scores, probably because my kid likes testing, and so puzzled and educated-guessed on material not studied yet, and there are multiple choice questions, and the rest is short.

So what were the actual scores end of 5th and beginning of 6?

276 and 282

282 in the 6+ MAP suggests strong knowledge of both algebra 1 and geometry. I don’t buy it.

Then you should "buy" this:
https://www.amazon.com/Hard-Math-Middle-School-IMLEM/dp/1453814450 (written by the father of infamous FTX/Alameda crypto fraudster Caroline Ellison!)

Or this:
https://artofproblemsolving.com/store/book/competition-math

Or this:
https://artofproblemsolving.com/store/book/intro-geometry

Or this:
https://artofproblemsolving.com/mathcounts_trainer

Or show up for math team practice twice a week all year long.

Math team practice twice a week in 5th grade? Oh my! How the other half live! I like my kids to have a childhood - they are self motivated and good kids but no, I’m not pushing them. And guess what? Even without the pressure cooker at home they still get into the Blair magnet!

Math team practice started in 6th grade. So that was actually after the fall MAP. Previous study was at home.
Or maybe it's, as NWEA says "Gifted students may have an intuitive grasp of math concepts and, since the test is not timed, they may actually figure some things out on their own."
https://connection.nwea.org/s/article/Transition-student-from-2-5-to-6-Reading-or-Math-test-1405101729354?language=en_US

(I don''t know about "gifted", though. When I was a kid, a teacher once told the class, "Gifted is when your parents give you a Lamborghini for your 16th birthday".)

Not all of us are fortunate enough to be able to support a commute to Blair or TPMS, so we enrich at home. DC seems to have plenty of time for it, since there is no commute and perhaps since free-play screen time is limited to under an hour per day, and DC doesn't know how to sh*tpost on DCUM like me .

Maybe DC just learns a lot in a little time.
"Guess what?" Some kids are curious and self-motivated to watch 3B1B on YouTube, and sometimes wake up on Saturday morning and prove a theorem before breakfast, and ask fascinating questions, and sometimes even write a personal essay in school about how they enjoy sharing a hobby with an engaged parent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS is run by ineffective and unsupportive leaders who don’t actual care about the schools or kids. Our school fought back when the memo arrived and yet no one at the top cared or listened. We are told to follow orders even though the decision is not good for kids. It’s awful and parents should be reaching out to the math dept and directors. They don’t listen to teachers.

Why would the people at the top even think this was helpful? Could this provide a better indication of who is ready for Algebra in 6th than the current methods which seem to be up to each school are inconsistent?

You didn't hear this from me but all the noise about the WPS offering Algebra in 6th to students has raised equity concerns among the top brass. Apparently, the first step in addressing it is to collect accurate metrics by using the 6th-grade MAP-M at the end of 5th.

Now it all makes sense!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid's score growth has been smooth from ES to MS. Looking at the score history there's no clue where the switch from 2-5 to 6+ was.

Im guessing you didn’t have an outlier kid? Kids scoring in the 270s in the 3-5 version usually see a big drop. Kids scoring in the 240s or below may not.

Mine didn't drop, but does study next-level math over the summer, so maybe that covered the gap.

You had a kid scoring in the 270s in 5th who increased from that in 6th because of studying over the summer?

I can't prove it's "because", but besides that, yes. We've done Beast Academy / AoPS material at home since 2nd grade, including summers.

Spring scores were 240s in 2nd, with ~10pts/yr growth every year 2nd-6th. (Interpolating to estimate the covid-missing Spring 2020 score)

There is some jitter with the Fall and Winter scores, probably because my kid likes testing, and so puzzled and educated-guessed on material not studied yet, and there are multiple choice questions, and the rest is short.

So what were the actual scores end of 5th and beginning of 6?

276 and 282

282 in the 6+ MAP suggests strong knowledge of both algebra 1 and geometry. I don’t buy it.

Then you should "buy" this:
https://www.amazon.com/Hard-Math-Middle-School-IMLEM/dp/1453814450 (written by the father of infamous FTX/Alameda crypto fraudster Caroline Ellison!)

Or this:
https://artofproblemsolving.com/store/book/competition-math

Or this:
https://artofproblemsolving.com/store/book/intro-geometry

Or this:
https://artofproblemsolving.com/mathcounts_trainer

Or show up for math team practice twice a week all year long.

Math team practice twice a week in 5th grade? Oh my! How the other half live! I like my kids to have a childhood - they are self motivated and good kids but no, I’m not pushing them. And guess what? Even without the pressure cooker at home they still get into the Blair magnet!

You're missing out!
Kids at Blair also deserve eat well at home with all-in-one easy-cook rice, beans, soups, yogurt steam veggies, and sauté.

https://www.target.com/p/instant-pot-6qt-9-in-1-pressure-cooker-bundle/-/A-83414556?AFID=google&CPNG=Appliances&adgroup=72-10

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s probably a good thing to switch kids in 5/6 in the spring- by this point they should have completed almost all of the 6th grade content, so the test matches their instruction.

So in the fall when they are about 1/2 way through the 5th grade content they take the 2-5 version and in the spring when they are almost finished the 6th grade content they take the 6+.

Seems like the scores will be a more accurate reflection and not get skewed so high by kids taking the test where it tops out because they have been taught more content.

NWEA says not to switch the test mid-year. They should choose one test and have the kids take that the full year.

Taking the map in May is end of year and not mid year.

They say not to switch during a year - to choose one test for the entire year

[Anonymous]

This wouldn't matter particularly much if MCPS only used the tool as intended -- a rough gauge of individual progress and need, suitable for honing lesson plans and for some evaluation of whole-class/school/system performance due to the lower statistical variability across larger Ns. Instead, they use single test results, fraught with uncertainty, to determine placement.

Along with other criticisms, here and in other threads, some schools also test early in the window, with, say, a month's less compacted material exposure for their 5/6 students at test time than for those testing late in the window. I wonder if they ever used their equity lens to check on the SES-related distribution of testing-window usage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This wouldn't matter particularly much if MCPS only used the tool as intended -- a rough gauge of individual progress and need, suitable for honing lesson plans and for some evaluation of whole-class/school/system performance due to the lower statistical variability across larger Ns. Instead, they use single test results, fraught with uncertainty, to determine placement.

Along with other criticisms, here and in other threads, some schools also test early in the window, with, say, a month's less compacted material exposure for their 5/6 students at test time than for those testing late in the window. I wonder if they ever used their equity lens to check on the SES-related distribution of testing-window usage.

Pretty sure they're doing this to ensure there's equitable access to Algebra in 6th since, in the past, it was only been offered at wealthy schools.

[Anonymous]

The MAP test is 3 times per year, and score reports include history ,so blaming the window for anything is a stretch. If I had to bet, I'd bet that the most interesting effect is summer learning loss (or gain, for kids who do summer education) between spring and fall.

A much more important issue, for the high end of performance, is that the MAP test is not a gifted/talented test at all! You know all that jazz about ending the "race to calculus", and going more in depth and breadth into the early material? All the grade-level "hereteogenous enrichment" MCPS promotes? The MAP test exactly the opposite! There are no in-depth/breadth questions. The way to get a high score is to know the basics of higher level courses.

There is a correlation between higher level topics and deep/broad knowledge, because enrichment schools teach well, but MAP doesn't test for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid's score growth has been smooth from ES to MS. Looking at the score history there's no clue where the switch from 2-5 to 6+ was.

Im guessing you didn’t have an outlier kid? Kids scoring in the 270s in the 3-5 version usually see a big drop. Kids scoring in the 240s or below may not.

Mine didn't drop, but does study next-level math over the summer, so maybe that covered the gap.

You had a kid scoring in the 270s in 5th who increased from that in 6th because of studying over the summer?

I can't prove it's "because", but besides that, yes. We've done Beast Academy / AoPS material at home since 2nd grade, including summers.

Spring scores were 240s in 2nd, with ~10pts/yr growth every year 2nd-6th. (Interpolating to estimate the covid-missing Spring 2020 score)

There is some jitter with the Fall and Winter scores, probably because my kid likes testing, and so puzzled and educated-guessed on material not studied yet, and there are multiple choice questions, and the rest is short.

So what were the actual scores end of 5th and beginning of 6?

276 and 282

282 in the 6+ MAP suggests strong knowledge of both algebra 1 and geometry. I don’t buy it.

Let me know if you are interested in hiring a tutor or educational advisor.

Remarkably similar to one of my kids, who is a year older. They had 248 in 3rd, 275 in 5th, and 288 in 6th. They were not in the magnet and attended schools that did not offer acceleration. I'm guessing they'll break 300 this spring or next fall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid's score growth has been smooth from ES to MS. Looking at the score history there's no clue where the switch from 2-5 to 6+ was.

Im guessing you didn’t have an outlier kid? Kids scoring in the 270s in the 3-5 version usually see a big drop. Kids scoring in the 240s or below may not.

Mine didn't drop, but does study next-level math over the summer, so maybe that covered the gap.

You had a kid scoring in the 270s in 5th who increased from that in 6th because of studying over the summer?

I can't prove it's "because", but besides that, yes. We've done Beast Academy / AoPS material at home since 2nd grade, including summers.

Spring scores were 240s in 2nd, with ~10pts/yr growth every year 2nd-6th. (Interpolating to estimate the covid-missing Spring 2020 score)

There is some jitter with the Fall and Winter scores, probably because my kid likes testing, and so puzzled and educated-guessed on material not studied yet, and there are multiple choice questions, and the rest is short.

So what were the actual scores end of 5th and beginning of 6?

276 and 282

282 in the 6+ MAP suggests strong knowledge of both algebra 1 and geometry. I don’t buy it.

Let me know if you are interested in hiring a tutor or educational advisor.

Remarkably similar to one of my kids, who is a year older. They had 248 in 3rd, 275 in 5th, and 288 in 6th. They were not in the magnet and attended schools that did not offer acceleration. I'm guessing they'll break 300 this spring or next fall.

How does your kid feel about their MCPS math classes? Do they want and have peers to do math with?

I know one family that had an advanced and interested math-loving kid, who spawned a whole math team at their school that didn't have one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The guidance was updated this year (just a couple of weeks ago) so it is new countywide for the Math 5/6 kids to take the middle school MAP.

Is there a guidance change regarding MAP-R, i.e., 6+ test for ELC kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This wouldn't matter particularly much if MCPS only used the tool as intended -- a rough gauge of individual progress and need, suitable for honing lesson plans and for some evaluation of whole-class/school/system performance due to the lower statistical variability across larger Ns. Instead, they use single test results, fraught with uncertainty, to determine placement.

Along with other criticisms, here and in other threads, some schools also test early in the window, with, say, a month's less compacted material exposure for their 5/6 students at test time than for those testing late in the window. I wonder if they ever used their equity lens to check on the SES-related distribution of testing-window usage.

Pretty sure they're doing this to ensure there's equitable access to Algebra in 6th since, in the past, it was only been offered at wealthy schools.

Assuming this is a troll post. If anything, the anecdotal evidence is that the higher-SES schools teat later in the window. At the same time, single-test-result determinations are more likely to be tracked by high-SES families, whose communities tend to be more in-the-know, and who are more likely to prep/have access to outside enrichment.