MAP-M 6+ in 5th grade

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So MCPS will provide guidance like 5th graders score 250+ (just as example) in Spring MAP Math 6+ test can choose algebra 1 at 6th grade? Or how should it work? I am sure just depending on individual school is not a good solution. MCPS should provide the guidance for all middle school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS is run by ineffective and unsupportive leaders who don’t actual care about the schools or kids. Our school fought back when the memo arrived and yet no one at the top cared or listened. We are told to follow orders even though the decision is not good for kids. It’s awful and parents should be reaching out to the math dept and directors. They don’t listen to teachers.

Why would the people at the top even think this was helpful? Could this provide a better indication of who is ready for Algebra in 6th than the current methods which seem to be up to each school are inconsistent?

You didn't hear this from me but all the noise about the WPS offering Algebra in 6th to students has raised equity concerns among the top brass. Apparently, the first step in addressing it is to collect accurate metrics by using the 6th-grade MAP-M at the end of 5th.

It all makes sense now.

Should. Won't. Limits their options.

As the parent of an older kid and looking back, I am not convinced that anyone needs to be taking Algebra in 6th grade. For reference, my kid had a 260 at the end of 3rd grade and took Algebra in 7th. Finishing HS having taken Calc BC in 10th, Linear Alg, AP stats, and Vector Calculus. That's plenty of math!

What is the point of doing this much math in high school vs just going onto college?

Just wanted to point out that there are still many paths to extensive math without it.

Is it really realistic to take admission to this kind of program for granted? My impression is that it's competitive, so it's not a good idea to expect admission without planning for the case where the student isn't admitted.

That is correct. Even without SMCS, it would be possible to double up on some math and/or take in the summer. My kid loves math but really was topped out by end of HS. Message here is to think ahead. Nice to be able to brag that your kid is in Algebra in 6th but do you really want them in Calculus in 10th grade and then having to take 2 even harder math classes after that?

If you need to slow down you can do 2-Year AP calc AB + BC.

You can do AP Stats (or non-AP stats), which isn't harder than AP Calc.

AP computer science also counts as a math class.

That's awesome! AP Calc BC, AP Stats & AP CS is a nice set without going into the higher-level college courses

I don't think that's true. Also that will look bad on your college application to not have 4 years in HS of a full math class. Plus that makes no sense to rush ahead in math and then slow down later!

Not true, you just keep your options open if accelerating early:

6, Algebra 1
7, Geometry
8, Algebra 2
9, Precalculus
10, Calculus AB
11, Calculus BC
12, AP Statistics

If the kid has some ambition he’s competitive for a STEM degree. If he’s not interested in that he can still check the most rigorous coursework, and take it somewhat easy on math for the final years of high school. A kid that was properly accelerated to Algebra 1 in 6th should have no trouble completing that workload easily.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So MCPS will provide guidance like 5th graders score 250+ (just as example) in Spring MAP Math 6+ test can choose algebra 1 at 6th grade? Or how should it work? I am sure just depending on individual school is not a good solution. MCPS should provide the guidance for all middle school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS is run by ineffective and unsupportive leaders who don’t actual care about the schools or kids. Our school fought back when the memo arrived and yet no one at the top cared or listened. We are told to follow orders even though the decision is not good for kids. It’s awful and parents should be reaching out to the math dept and directors. They don’t listen to teachers.

Why would the people at the top even think this was helpful? Could this provide a better indication of who is ready for Algebra in 6th than the current methods which seem to be up to each school are inconsistent?

You didn't hear this from me but all the noise about the WPS offering Algebra in 6th to students has raised equity concerns among the top brass. Apparently, the first step in addressing it is to collect accurate metrics by using the 6th-grade MAP-M at the end of 5th.

It all makes sense now.

Should. Won't. Limits their options.

As the parent of an older kid and looking back, I am not convinced that anyone needs to be taking Algebra in 6th grade. For reference, my kid had a 260 at the end of 3rd grade and took Algebra in 7th. Finishing HS having taken Calc BC in 10th, Linear Alg, AP stats, and Vector Calculus. That's plenty of math!

What is the point of doing this much math in high school vs just going onto college?

Just wanted to point out that there are still many paths to extensive math without it.

Is it really realistic to take admission to this kind of program for granted? My impression is that it's competitive, so it's not a good idea to expect admission without planning for the case where the student isn't admitted.

That is correct. Even without SMCS, it would be possible to double up on some math and/or take in the summer. My kid loves math but really was topped out by end of HS. Message here is to think ahead. Nice to be able to brag that your kid is in Algebra in 6th but do you really want them in Calculus in 10th grade and then having to take 2 even harder math classes after that?

If you need to slow down you can do 2-Year AP calc AB + BC.

You can do AP Stats (or non-AP stats), which isn't harder than AP Calc.

AP computer science also counts as a math class.

That's awesome! AP Calc BC, AP Stats & AP CS is a nice set without going into the higher-level college courses

I don't think that's true. Also that will look bad on your college application to not have 4 years in HS of a full math class. Plus that makes no sense to rush ahead in math and then slow down later!

AP CS definitely counts:
https://marylandpublicschools.org/about/Documents/DCAA/Math/MMGR/FAQsMathEveryYearEnrollmentRequirements.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So MCPS will provide guidance like 5th graders score 250+ (just as example) in Spring MAP Math 6+ test can choose algebra 1 at 6th grade? Or how should it work? I am sure just depending on individual school is not a good solution. MCPS should provide the guidance for all middle school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS is run by ineffective and unsupportive leaders who don’t actual care about the schools or kids. Our school fought back when the memo arrived and yet no one at the top cared or listened. We are told to follow orders even though the decision is not good for kids. It’s awful and parents should be reaching out to the math dept and directors. They don’t listen to teachers.

Why would the people at the top even think this was helpful? Could this provide a better indication of who is ready for Algebra in 6th than the current methods which seem to be up to each school are inconsistent?

You didn't hear this from me but all the noise about the WPS offering Algebra in 6th to students has raised equity concerns among the top brass. Apparently, the first step in addressing it is to collect accurate metrics by using the 6th-grade MAP-M at the end of 5th.

It all makes sense now.

Should. Won't. Limits their options.

As the parent of an older kid and looking back, I am not convinced that anyone needs to be taking Algebra in 6th grade. For reference, my kid had a 260 at the end of 3rd grade and took Algebra in 7th. Finishing HS having taken Calc BC in 10th, Linear Alg, AP stats, and Vector Calculus. That's plenty of math!

What is the point of doing this much math in high school vs just going onto college?

Just wanted to point out that there are still many paths to extensive math without it.

Is it really realistic to take admission to this kind of program for granted? My impression is that it's competitive, so it's not a good idea to expect admission without planning for the case where the student isn't admitted.

That is correct. Even without SMCS, it would be possible to double up on some math and/or take in the summer. My kid loves math but really was topped out by end of HS. Message here is to think ahead. Nice to be able to brag that your kid is in Algebra in 6th but do you really want them in Calculus in 10th grade and then having to take 2 even harder math classes after that?

If you need to slow down you can do 2-Year AP calc AB + BC.

You can do AP Stats (or non-AP stats), which isn't harder than AP Calc.

AP computer science also counts as a math class.

That's awesome! AP Calc BC, AP Stats & AP CS is a nice set without going into the higher-level college courses

I don't think that's true. Also that will look bad on your college application to not have 4 years in HS of a full math class. Plus that makes no sense to rush ahead in math and then slow down later!

Not true, you just keep your options open if accelerating early:

6, Algebra 1
7, Geometry
8, Algebra 2
9, Precalculus
10, Calculus AB
11, Calculus BC
12, AP Statistics

If the kid has some ambition he’s competitive for a STEM degree. If he’s not interested in that he can still check the most rigorous coursework, and take it somewhat easy on math for the final years of high school. A kid that was properly accelerated to Algebra 1 in 6th should have no trouble completing that workload easily.

Not necessarily. My kid was accelerated and then struggled in 7th grade so I had them repeat the same math class in 8th. Fast forward to high school and my kid earns As in math while their friends who stuck with the accelerated track are struggling (Bs/Cs or worse and requiring tutors).

While my next kid received accelerated instruction in elementary, I took them off the fast track for math in middle school.

Calculus and Statistics in high school seem like overkill unless you are aiming for stem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it common for 5th graders in 5/6 math to take the 6+ MAP-M in spring instead of waiting until 6th grade to switch to the new test?

I don’t recall this being the case for my older children, but my younger one recently took the 6th grade and above test.

To my knowledge, they don't do this in MCPS.

They do. That’s why I’m asking.

Which school does this?

Wealthy Potomac Schools, I'm sure.

Yes, the goal is to ensure the kids at those schools receive acceleration so they are introduced to higher math. This allows them to score higher on tests like MAP-M and helps justify opportunity hoarding by students from those schools. It's all part of MCPS rigged game to keep the poor down and help make the rich richer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it common for 5th graders in 5/6 math to take the 6+ MAP-M in spring instead of waiting until 6th grade to switch to the new test?

I don’t recall this being the case for my older children, but my younger one recently took the 6th grade and above test.

To my knowledge, they don't do this in MCPS.

They do. That’s why I’m asking.

Which school does this?

Wealthy Potomac Schools, I'm sure.

Yes, the goal is to ensure the kids at those schools receive acceleration so they are introduced to higher math. This allows them to score higher on tests like MAP-M and helps justify opportunity hoarding by students from those schools. It's all part of MCPS rigged game to keep the poor down and help make the rich richer.

If it looks like a duck and flies like a duck, then it's probably a...

Look, they don't have to have it as a cabalistic agenda for it simply to support the outcome. They just have to have failed to think through thr effects of their approach, be willing to ignore them in favor of other priorities and/or be swayed by special interests without ensuring they provide equivalent opportunities for all. Pretty mundane.

Now the fact that they always seem terribly reticent on detail/requested specifics this and related issues...well...maybe a duck?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So MCPS will provide guidance like 5th graders score 250+ (just as example) in Spring MAP Math 6+ test can choose algebra 1 at 6th grade? Or how should it work? I am sure just depending on individual school is not a good solution. MCPS should provide the guidance for all middle school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS is run by ineffective and unsupportive leaders who don’t actual care about the schools or kids. Our school fought back when the memo arrived and yet no one at the top cared or listened. We are told to follow orders even though the decision is not good for kids. It’s awful and parents should be reaching out to the math dept and directors. They don’t listen to teachers.

Why would the people at the top even think this was helpful? Could this provide a better indication of who is ready for Algebra in 6th than the current methods which seem to be up to each school are inconsistent?

You didn't hear this from me but all the noise about the WPS offering Algebra in 6th to students has raised equity concerns among the top brass. Apparently, the first step in addressing it is to collect accurate metrics by using the 6th-grade MAP-M at the end of 5th.

It all makes sense now.

Should. Won't. Limits their options.

As the parent of an older kid and looking back, I am not convinced that anyone needs to be taking Algebra in 6th grade. For reference, my kid had a 260 at the end of 3rd grade and took Algebra in 7th. Finishing HS having taken Calc BC in 10th, Linear Alg, AP stats, and Vector Calculus. That's plenty of math!

What is the point of doing this much math in high school vs just going onto college?

Just wanted to point out that there are still many paths to extensive math without it.

Is it really realistic to take admission to this kind of program for granted? My impression is that it's competitive, so it's not a good idea to expect admission without planning for the case where the student isn't admitted.

That is correct. Even without SMCS, it would be possible to double up on some math and/or take in the summer. My kid loves math but really was topped out by end of HS. Message here is to think ahead. Nice to be able to brag that your kid is in Algebra in 6th but do you really want them in Calculus in 10th grade and then having to take 2 even harder math classes after that?

If you need to slow down you can do 2-Year AP calc AB + BC.

You can do AP Stats (or non-AP stats), which isn't harder than AP Calc.

AP computer science also counts as a math class.

That's awesome! AP Calc BC, AP Stats & AP CS is a nice set without going into the higher-level college courses

I don't think that's true. Also that will look bad on your college application to not have 4 years in HS of a full math class. Plus that makes no sense to rush ahead in math and then slow down later!

Not true, you just keep your options open if accelerating early:

6, Algebra 1
7, Geometry
8, Algebra 2
9, Precalculus
10, Calculus AB
11, Calculus BC
12, AP Statistics

If the kid has some ambition he’s competitive for a STEM degree. If he’s not interested in that he can still check the most rigorous coursework, and take it somewhat easy on math for the final years of high school. A kid that was properly accelerated to Algebra 1 in 6th should have no trouble completing that workload easily.

Not necessarily. My kid was accelerated and then struggled in 7th grade so I had them repeat the same math class in 8th. Fast forward to high school and my kid earns As in math while their friends who stuck with the accelerated track are struggling (Bs/Cs or worse and requiring tutors).

While my next kid received accelerated instruction in elementary, I took them off the fast track for math in middle school.

Calculus and Statistics in high school seem like overkill unless you are aiming for stem.

I think they are very helpful for social sciences, particularly econ, as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So MCPS will provide guidance like 5th graders score 250+ (just as example) in Spring MAP Math 6+ test can choose algebra 1 at 6th grade? Or how should it work? I am sure just depending on individual school is not a good solution. MCPS should provide the guidance for all middle school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS is run by ineffective and unsupportive leaders who don’t actual care about the schools or kids. Our school fought back when the memo arrived and yet no one at the top cared or listened. We are told to follow orders even though the decision is not good for kids. It’s awful and parents should be reaching out to the math dept and directors. They don’t listen to teachers.

Why would the people at the top even think this was helpful? Could this provide a better indication of who is ready for Algebra in 6th than the current methods which seem to be up to each school are inconsistent?

You didn't hear this from me but all the noise about the WPS offering Algebra in 6th to students has raised equity concerns among the top brass. Apparently, the first step in addressing it is to collect accurate metrics by using the 6th-grade MAP-M at the end of 5th.

It all makes sense now.

Should. Won't. Limits their options.

As the parent of an older kid and looking back, I am not convinced that anyone needs to be taking Algebra in 6th grade. For reference, my kid had a 260 at the end of 3rd grade and took Algebra in 7th. Finishing HS having taken Calc BC in 10th, Linear Alg, AP stats, and Vector Calculus. That's plenty of math!

What is the point of doing this much math in high school vs just going onto college?

Just wanted to point out that there are still many paths to extensive math without it.

Is it really realistic to take admission to this kind of program for granted? My impression is that it's competitive, so it's not a good idea to expect admission without planning for the case where the student isn't admitted.

That is correct. Even without SMCS, it would be possible to double up on some math and/or take in the summer. My kid loves math but really was topped out by end of HS. Message here is to think ahead. Nice to be able to brag that your kid is in Algebra in 6th but do you really want them in Calculus in 10th grade and then having to take 2 even harder math classes after that?

If you need to slow down you can do 2-Year AP calc AB + BC.

You can do AP Stats (or non-AP stats), which isn't harder than AP Calc.

AP computer science also counts as a math class.

That's awesome! AP Calc BC, AP Stats & AP CS is a nice set without going into the higher-level college courses

I don't think that's true. Also that will look bad on your college application to not have 4 years in HS of a full math class. Plus that makes no sense to rush ahead in math and then slow down later!

Not true, you just keep your options open if accelerating early:

6, Algebra 1
7, Geometry
8, Algebra 2
9, Precalculus
10, Calculus AB
11, Calculus BC
12, AP Statistics

If the kid has some ambition he’s competitive for a STEM degree. If he’s not interested in that he can still check the most rigorous coursework, and take it somewhat easy on math for the final years of high school. A kid that was properly accelerated to Algebra 1 in 6th should have no trouble completing that workload easily.

Not necessarily. My kid was accelerated and then struggled in 7th grade so I had them repeat the same math class in 8th. Fast forward to high school and my kid earns As in math while their friends who stuck with the accelerated track are struggling (Bs/Cs or worse and requiring tutors).

While my next kid received accelerated instruction in elementary, I took them off the fast track for math in middle school.

Calculus and Statistics in high school seem like overkill unless you are aiming for stem.

You omit to say what math your child had trouble with and in what grade. We’re talking about a student starting Algebra 1 in 6th grade. If we’re talking about taking Algebra in 8th, the you don’t even need to touch Calculus and just do Statistics which is useful to virtually any major dealing with data, social sciences included. Even if it’s an Algebra in 7th case, as someone pointed out you can swap one math course with AP Computer Science which even for a non-stem major is useful for a well rounded education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it common for 5th graders in 5/6 math to take the 6+ MAP-M in spring instead of waiting until 6th grade to switch to the new test?

I don’t recall this being the case for my older children, but my younger one recently took the 6th grade and above test.

To my knowledge, they don't do this in MCPS.

They do. That’s why I’m asking.

Which school does this?

Wealthy Potomac Schools, I'm sure.

Yes, the goal is to ensure the kids at those schools receive acceleration so they are introduced to higher math. This allows them to score higher on tests like MAP-M and helps justify opportunity hoarding by students from those schools. It's all part of MCPS rigged game to keep the poor down and help make the rich richer.

Yes. And if they don't start Algebra 1 in 5th grade, rhey're encourage to transfer out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it common for 5th graders in 5/6 math to take the 6+ MAP-M in spring instead of waiting until 6th grade to switch to the new test?

I don’t recall this being the case for my older children, but my younger one recently took the 6th grade and above test.

To my knowledge, they don't do this in MCPS.

They do. That’s why I’m asking.

Which school does this?

Wealthy Potomac Schools, I'm sure.

Yes, the goal is to ensure the kids at those schools receive acceleration so they are introduced to higher math. This allows them to score higher on tests like MAP-M and helps justify opportunity hoarding by students from those schools. It's all part of MCPS rigged game to keep the poor down and help make the rich richer.

Yes. And if they don't start Algebra 1 in 5th grade, rhey're encourage to transfer out.

Hi anon sock puppet! Others just tuning in: check the "duck" post, a few above.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid's score growth has been smooth from ES to MS. Looking at the score history there's no clue where the switch from 2-5 to 6+ was.

Im guessing you didn’t have an outlier kid? Kids scoring in the 270s in the 3-5 version usually see a big drop. Kids scoring in the 240s or below may not.

Mine didn't drop, but does study next-level math over the summer, so maybe that covered the gap.

You had a kid scoring in the 270s in 5th who increased from that in 6th because of studying over the summer?

I can't prove it's "because", but besides that, yes. We've done Beast Academy / AoPS material at home since 2nd grade, including summers.

Spring scores were 240s in 2nd, with ~10pts/yr growth every year 2nd-6th. (Interpolating to estimate the covid-missing Spring 2020 score)

There is some jitter with the Fall and Winter scores, probably because my kid likes testing, and so puzzled and educated-guessed on material not studied yet, and there are multiple choice questions, and the rest is short.

So what were the actual scores end of 5th and beginning of 6?

276 and 282

282 in the 6+ MAP suggests strong knowledge of both algebra 1 and geometry. I don’t buy it.

On MAP 6+ you can restrict the material being tested so it doesn’t cover algebra 1 and geometry. So it’s possible the scores are still for on grade material. For unrestricted MAP 6+ you’ll start hitting algebra 1 questions like slope and intercepts around 220. Around 240 they’ll get questions on quadratic roots, parabolas etc. The NWEA threshold for Algebra readiness is 235, and the one for Geometry is 245.

The way to know what was actually tested is to look at the Learning Continuum report, that will tell you what concepts the student knows at accuracy levels of 75, 50 and 25%.

I find it hilarious when parents show off their kids MAP scores as proof of genius level ability when they have no idea how that testing works. 288 administered to 12th graders is 99 percentile. I’m sure that 6th grader is smart, but chances are he’s not on par with the top students in 12th grade.

They actually are on par with the 12th grader because of how MCPS uses this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid's score growth has been smooth from ES to MS. Looking at the score history there's no clue where the switch from 2-5 to 6+ was.

Im guessing you didn’t have an outlier kid? Kids scoring in the 270s in the 3-5 version usually see a big drop. Kids scoring in the 240s or below may not.

Mine didn't drop, but does study next-level math over the summer, so maybe that covered the gap.

You had a kid scoring in the 270s in 5th who increased from that in 6th because of studying over the summer?

I can't prove it's "because", but besides that, yes. We've done Beast Academy / AoPS material at home since 2nd grade, including summers.

Spring scores were 240s in 2nd, with ~10pts/yr growth every year 2nd-6th. (Interpolating to estimate the covid-missing Spring 2020 score)

There is some jitter with the Fall and Winter scores, probably because my kid likes testing, and so puzzled and educated-guessed on material not studied yet, and there are multiple choice questions, and the rest is short.

So what were the actual scores end of 5th and beginning of 6?

276 and 282

282 in the 6+ MAP suggests strong knowledge of both algebra 1 and geometry. I don’t buy it.

On MAP 6+ you can restrict the material being tested so it doesn’t cover algebra 1 and geometry. So it’s possible the scores are still for on grade material. For unrestricted MAP 6+ you’ll start hitting algebra 1 questions like slope and intercepts around 220. Around 240 they’ll get questions on quadratic roots, parabolas etc. The NWEA threshold for Algebra readiness is 235, and the one for Geometry is 245.

The way to know what was actually tested is to look at the Learning Continuum report, that will tell you what concepts the student knows at accuracy levels of 75, 50 and 25%.

I find it hilarious when parents show off their kids MAP scores as proof of genius level ability when they have no idea how that testing works. 288 administered to 12th graders is 99 percentile. I’m sure that 6th grader is smart, but chances are he’s not on par with the top students in 12th grade.

They actually are on par with the 12th grader because of how MCPS uses this.

I’m seriously doubting this. Top 1% of 12th graders means a 5 on AP Calculus BC and 800 on the SAT math portion. Anyways the metric is meaningless, how are they comparable? On general math knowledge of some narrow tested area. Regardless it’s still a “so what” kind of situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid's score growth has been smooth from ES to MS. Looking at the score history there's no clue where the switch from 2-5 to 6+ was.

Im guessing you didn’t have an outlier kid? Kids scoring in the 270s in the 3-5 version usually see a big drop. Kids scoring in the 240s or below may not.

Mine didn't drop, but does study next-level math over the summer, so maybe that covered the gap.

You had a kid scoring in the 270s in 5th who increased from that in 6th because of studying over the summer?

I can't prove it's "because", but besides that, yes. We've done Beast Academy / AoPS material at home since 2nd grade, including summers.

Spring scores were 240s in 2nd, with ~10pts/yr growth every year 2nd-6th. (Interpolating to estimate the covid-missing Spring 2020 score)

There is some jitter with the Fall and Winter scores, probably because my kid likes testing, and so puzzled and educated-guessed on material not studied yet, and there are multiple choice questions, and the rest is short.

So what were the actual scores end of 5th and beginning of 6?

276 and 282

282 in the 6+ MAP suggests strong knowledge of both algebra 1 and geometry. I don’t buy it.

On MAP 6+ you can restrict the material being tested so it doesn’t cover algebra 1 and geometry. So it’s possible the scores are still for on grade material. For unrestricted MAP 6+ you’ll start hitting algebra 1 questions like slope and intercepts around 220. Around 240 they’ll get questions on quadratic roots, parabolas etc. The NWEA threshold for Algebra readiness is 235, and the one for Geometry is 245.

The way to know what was actually tested is to look at the Learning Continuum report, that will tell you what concepts the student knows at accuracy levels of 75, 50 and 25%.

I find it hilarious when parents show off their kids MAP scores as proof of genius level ability when they have no idea how that testing works. 288 administered to 12th graders is 99 percentile. I’m sure that 6th grader is smart, but chances are he’s not on par with the top students in 12th grade.

They actually are on par with the 12th grader because of how MCPS uses this.

I’m seriously doubting this. Top 1% of 12th graders means a 5 on AP Calculus BC and 800 on the SAT math portion. Anyways the metric is meaningless, how are they comparable? On general math knowledge of some narrow tested area. Regardless it’s still a “so what” kind of situation.

Not true. Only a small percentage of kids even take the AP Calculus exam whereas most students take the MAP-M. A percentage of elite math students is a self-selecting group that isn't comparable to the more general group that takes MAP tests.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid's score growth has been smooth from ES to MS. Looking at the score history there's no clue where the switch from 2-5 to 6+ was.

Im guessing you didn’t have an outlier kid? Kids scoring in the 270s in the 3-5 version usually see a big drop. Kids scoring in the 240s or below may not.

Mine didn't drop, but does study next-level math over the summer, so maybe that covered the gap.

You had a kid scoring in the 270s in 5th who increased from that in 6th because of studying over the summer?

I can't prove it's "because", but besides that, yes. We've done Beast Academy / AoPS material at home since 2nd grade, including summers.

Spring scores were 240s in 2nd, with ~10pts/yr growth every year 2nd-6th. (Interpolating to estimate the covid-missing Spring 2020 score)

There is some jitter with the Fall and Winter scores, probably because my kid likes testing, and so puzzled and educated-guessed on material not studied yet, and there are multiple choice questions, and the rest is short.

So what were the actual scores end of 5th and beginning of 6?

276 and 282

282 in the 6+ MAP suggests strong knowledge of both algebra 1 and geometry. I don’t buy it.

On MAP 6+ you can restrict the material being tested so it doesn’t cover algebra 1 and geometry. So it’s possible the scores are still for on grade material. For unrestricted MAP 6+ you’ll start hitting algebra 1 questions like slope and intercepts around 220. Around 240 they’ll get questions on quadratic roots, parabolas etc. The NWEA threshold for Algebra readiness is 235, and the one for Geometry is 245.

The way to know what was actually tested is to look at the Learning Continuum report, that will tell you what concepts the student knows at accuracy levels of 75, 50 and 25%.

I find it hilarious when parents show off their kids MAP scores as proof of genius level ability when they have no idea how that testing works. 288 administered to 12th graders is 99 percentile. I’m sure that 6th grader is smart, but chances are he’s not on par with the top students in 12th grade.

They actually are on par with the 12th grader because of how MCPS uses this.

I’m seriously doubting this. Top 1% of 12th graders means a 5 on AP Calculus BC and 800 on the SAT math portion. Anyways the metric is meaningless, how are they comparable? On general math knowledge of some narrow tested area. Regardless it’s still a “so what” kind of situation.

Not true. Only a small percentage of kids even take the AP Calculus exam whereas most students take the MAP-M. A percentage of elite math students is a self-selecting group that isn't comparable to the more general group that takes MAP tests.

15% of student stake AP calc. 20% of them (3% of all students) get a 5.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:My kid's score growth has been smooth from ES to MS. Looking at the score history there's no clue where the switch from 2-5 to 6+ was.

Im guessing you didn’t have an outlier kid? Kids scoring in the 270s in the 3-5 version usually see a big drop. Kids scoring in the 240s or below may not.

Mine didn't drop, but does study next-level math over the summer, so maybe that covered the gap.

You had a kid scoring in the 270s in 5th who increased from that in 6th because of studying over the summer?

I can't prove it's "because", but besides that, yes. We've done Beast Academy / AoPS material at home since 2nd grade, including summers.

Spring scores were 240s in 2nd, with ~10pts/yr growth every year 2nd-6th. (Interpolating to estimate the covid-missing Spring 2020 score)

There is some jitter with the Fall and Winter scores, probably because my kid likes testing, and so puzzled and educated-guessed on material not studied yet, and there are multiple choice questions, and the rest is short.

So what were the actual scores end of 5th and beginning of 6?

276 and 282

282 in the 6+ MAP suggests strong knowledge of both algebra 1 and geometry. I don’t buy it.

On MAP 6+ you can restrict the material being tested so it doesn’t cover algebra 1 and geometry. So it’s possible the scores are still for on grade material. For unrestricted MAP 6+ you’ll start hitting algebra 1 questions like slope and intercepts around 220. Around 240 they’ll get questions on quadratic roots, parabolas etc. The NWEA threshold for Algebra readiness is 235, and the one for Geometry is 245.

The way to know what was actually tested is to look at the Learning Continuum report, that will tell you what concepts the student knows at accuracy levels of 75, 50 and 25%.

I find it hilarious when parents show off their kids MAP scores as proof of genius level ability when they have no idea how that testing works. 288 administered to 12th graders is 99 percentile. I’m sure that 6th grader is smart, but chances are he’s not on par with the top students in 12th grade.

They actually are on par with the 12th grader because of how MCPS uses this.

I’m seriously doubting this. Top 1% of 12th graders means a 5 on AP Calculus BC and 800 on the SAT math portion. Anyways the metric is meaningless, how are they comparable? On general math knowledge of some narrow tested area. Regardless it’s still a “so what” kind of situation.

Not true. Only a small percentage of kids even take the AP Calculus exam whereas most students take the MAP-M. A percentage of elite math students is a self-selecting group that isn't comparable to the more general group that takes MAP tests.

15% of student stake AP calc. 20% of them (3% of all students) get a 5.

That is the correct ballpark. When I looked this in more detail I remember determining that 2.5% of the cohort would score a 5 in AP Calculus BC.

It’s about the same for SAT, 50% of all students take it and 1-2% of them score 800. Definitely fewer students take MAP than SAT.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:So MCPS will provide guidance like 5th graders score 250+ (just as example) in Spring MAP Math 6+ test can choose algebra 1 at 6th grade? Or how should it work? I am sure just depending on individual school is not a good solution. MCPS should provide the guidance for all middle school.

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Anonymous wrote:MCPS is run by ineffective and unsupportive leaders who don’t actual care about the schools or kids. Our school fought back when the memo arrived and yet no one at the top cared or listened. We are told to follow orders even though the decision is not good for kids. It’s awful and parents should be reaching out to the math dept and directors. They don’t listen to teachers.

Why would the people at the top even think this was helpful? Could this provide a better indication of who is ready for Algebra in 6th than the current methods which seem to be up to each school are inconsistent?

You didn't hear this from me but all the noise about the WPS offering Algebra in 6th to students has raised equity concerns among the top brass. Apparently, the first step in addressing it is to collect accurate metrics by using the 6th-grade MAP-M at the end of 5th.

It all makes sense now.

Should. Won't. Limits their options.

As the parent of an older kid and looking back, I am not convinced that anyone needs to be taking Algebra in 6th grade. For reference, my kid had a 260 at the end of 3rd grade and took Algebra in 7th. Finishing HS having taken Calc BC in 10th, Linear Alg, AP stats, and Vector Calculus. That's plenty of math!

Did he take a course over the summer? How does he get to calc bc in 10th ? Mine was on algebra 1 in 6th track when he took calc bc in 10th.
Algebra 1 in 6th
Geometry in 7th
Algebra 2 in 8th
Precalc In 9th
Calc bc in 10th
MV calc in 11th
AP stat and linear algebra in 12th

How can you get to calc bc in 10th if you dont take algebra 1 in 6th? U will have to take some other course over the summer then

No courses over summer. Took functions class at SMCS magnet in 9th.
Alg 1 7th
Geometry 8th
Functions 9th
Calc BC 10th
Linear Algebra and AP Stats 11th
Vector Calculus 12th

Right, so Algebra 1 in 6th, would be extremely useful, far preferable to cramming Algebra 2 and Precalculus into 1 year in 9th. This is why the Magnet principal recommends taking Alg 1, Geometry, and Alg 2 in middle school before taking Functions in 9th.

Your kid, who had a Blair qualifying MAP score by 5th grade, did not benefit from taking Prealgebra class in 6th.
Your kid either sleepwalked through middle school, did advanced/enriched outside/home study, or suddenly got slammed with a 3x harder math class in 9th